The GOP's "aversion" to responsibility

[Procrustes Stretched]

Get over it. Obamacare is here to stay.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

1) Eliminating it for future payouts does not have to mean you kill of those who are currently receiving or who will be receiving n the near future.. you can indeed start phasing out
2) Education in no way is a constitutional charge or responsibility of the federal government... it is a responsibility of the state or local government or of the individual
3) YOU again say 'cutting the military in half is feasible' with absolutely no understanding of what is indeed 'feasible' in terms of mission.. YES.. there are cuts that can and must happen EVERYWHERE including the DoD.. but your IDIOTIC and RANDOM claim that half is 'feasible' is absolute RUBBISH.. par for the course for you

Okay...apparently I'm causing someone to foam at the mouth, lol.

1. yes, just like I said, you eliminate the taxes

2. So you want to be in a world filled with stupid people...I don't

3. Cutting the military in half IS feasible...we could cut it down to nothing but Air Force, Coast Guard, and National Guard! All you need is Nuclear deterrent and domestic security. Does that mean that's what we "should" do? Of course not! China spends 2% of their GDP on military, UK spends 2.5%, France spends 2.3%....we spend 4.5%....there you go...numbers showing we could cut in Half! MWHAHAHAHA!

I really suggest you chill out, lol

Man, I am so glad you will never be SECDEF or POTUS. As Jack Nicholas said, "You have no idea what it takes to defend a nation."

 

[LTCArmyRet]

1,220,580 deaths since the invasion in 2003

The deficit is shrinking faster then anytime since ww2...there really isnt much more you can ask for.

A simple question for you, I dare you to answer it honestly.

If the Deficit/debt is shrinking, why must we request the debt ceiling be raised?

If you're retired from the military, then maybe to pay your retirement?

I'd gladly give 1 year of my retirement to pay towards our national debt if it meant that I would never have my taxes raised and ensure SS would be there for me when I become eligible. But I seriously doubt that my measly retirement, or others like me who have earned it, is the cause for our national debt.

 

[Darkwind]

Iraq -- Both agreed to and voted for it. Your lie is exposed.

95% of the Nay votes were democrats, granted there were ones that voted yes, it was overwhelmingly a GOP vote.

The economic meltdown -- Caused by a Democratic majority in Congress. Your lie is exposed.

No it wasn't, the economy peaked in 2007, the same year democrats came to power, you can't stop a reccession at the peak of the crisis. Plus Bush was still president.

Wrong, both counts.

 

[RandallFlagg]

1) Eliminating it for future payouts does not have to mean you kill of those who are currently receiving or who will be receiving n the near future.. you can indeed start phasing out
2) Education in no way is a constitutional charge or responsibility of the federal government... it is a responsibility of the state or local government or of the individual
3) YOU again say 'cutting the military in half is feasible' with absolutely no understanding of what is indeed 'feasible' in terms of mission.. YES.. there are cuts that can and must happen EVERYWHERE including the DoD.. but your IDIOTIC and RANDOM claim that half is 'feasible' is absolute RUBBISH.. par for the course for you

Okay...apparently I'm causing someone to foam at the mouth, lol.

1. yes, just like I said, you eliminate the taxes

2. So you want to be in a world filled with stupid people...I don't

3. Cutting the military in half IS feasible...we could cut it down to nothing but Air Force, Coast Guard, and National Guard! All you need is Nuclear deterrent and domestic security. Does that mean that's what we "should" do? Of course not! China spends 2% of their GDP on military, UK spends 2.5%, France spends 2.3%....we spend 4.5%....there you go...numbers showing we could cut in Half! MWHAHAHAHA!

I really suggest you chill out, lol

Man, I am so glad you will never be SECDEF or POTUS. As Jack Nicholas said, "You have no idea what it takes to defend a nation."

To be clear, Colonel....Jack Nicholas played golf. Jack Nicholson played a Marine....

I do, however understand the sentiment. You were probably thinking of Barry Obama playing golf while America waits on leadership..

 

[RandallFlagg]

A simple question for you, I dare you to answer it honestly.

If the Deficit/debt is shrinking, why must we request the debt ceiling be raised?

If you're retired from the military, then maybe to pay your retirement?

I'd gladly give 1 year of my retirement to pay towards our national debt if it meant that I would never have my taxes raised and ensure SS would be there for me when I become eligible. But I seriously doubt that my measly retirement, or others like me who have earned it, is the cause for our national debt.

Again, Thank You!!

I had a young and dumb clown on this board intimate that I "didn't earn" my small retirement (50% of my base pay) from the military after 22 years - 2 purple hearts and a Bronze Star (Quang Tri), maintaining a TSSC3 and serving at embassies around the world.

Funny, he had no problem whatsoever with his "elected representatives" serving one term and receiving full pay and entitlements for the rest of their lives.

Guess he figured that their "sacrifices", (I guess those cocktail parties and hookers at his beckon call are a sacrifice) are worth so much more than us "little fellas" that get shot at and hit, sh&t at and missed? Hell, anymore, it's hard to tell in this country....

However, like you, I would gladly give up my "big money" today - if it would lead to responsibility from this "so-called" band of "leaders". Until then - hell no.

 

[ron4342]

Because most of what you said is a lie, Mr. winner of "The Dumbass Award!"

Saying something is a "lie" does not prove that it is a lie.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

If you're retired from the military, then maybe to pay your retirement?

I'd gladly give 1 year of my retirement to pay towards our national debt if it meant that I would never have my taxes raised and ensure SS would be there for me when I become eligible. But I seriously doubt that my measly retirement, or others like me who have earned it, is the cause for our national debt.

Again, Thank You!!

I had a young and dumb clown on this board intimate that I "didn't earn" my small retirement (50% of my base pay) from the military after 22 years - 2 purple hearts and a Bronze Star (Quang Tri), maintaining a TSSC3 and serving at embassies around the world.

Funny, he had no problem whatsoever with his "elected representatives" serving one term and receiving full pay and entitlements for the rest of their lives.

Guess he figured that their "sacrifices", (I guess those cocktail parties and hookers at his beckon call are a sacrifice) are worth so much more than us "little fellas" that get shot at and hit, sh&t at and missed? Hell, anymore, it's hard to tell in this country....

However, like you, I would gladly give up my "big money" today - if it would lead to responsibility from this "so-called" band of "leaders". Until then - hell no.

Thank you sir for you comment, but more importantly for your service. Yes, sadly, there are a majority of our citizens that do not know nor can they fathom the sacrifices it takes to keep this country safe.

 

[rdean]

1,220,580 deaths since the invasion in 2003

The deficit is shrinking faster then anytime since ww2...there really isnt much more you can ask for.

A simple question for you, I dare you to answer it honestly.

If the Deficit/debt is shrinking, why must we request the debt ceiling be raised?

Thank You!


We continually raise the debt ceiling in order to maintain our "care" for the 47 MILLION Americans that are out of work, have given up looking and just don't care any longer.

Barry is fully aware that if the checks stop coming for these millions of people, it will look like a frankenstein movie where the villagers riot on the steps of the White House.

Report: From 2001 to 2008 U.S. has lost 2.4M jobs to China - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

Senate GOP blocks veterans jobs bill - CBS News

Senate Republicans Block Dem Jobs Bill For Teachers, Firefighters

How come those people don't have jobs?

And about those "benefits":

Unemployment benefits: not until Bush tax cuts pass, Senate GOP says - CSMonitor.com

Speechless? What do you say to "facts"?

 

[RandallFlagg]

I'd gladly give 1 year of my retirement to pay towards our national debt if it meant that I would never have my taxes raised and ensure SS would be there for me when I become eligible. But I seriously doubt that my measly retirement, or others like me who have earned it, is the cause for our national debt.

Again, Thank You!!

I had a young and dumb clown on this board intimate that I "didn't earn" my small retirement (50% of my base pay) from the military after 22 years - 2 purple hearts and a Bronze Star (Quang Tri), maintaining a TSSC3 and serving at embassies around the world.

Funny, he had no problem whatsoever with his "elected representatives" serving one term and receiving full pay and entitlements for the rest of their lives.

Guess he figured that their "sacrifices", (I guess those cocktail parties and hookers at his beckon call are a sacrifice) are worth so much more than us "little fellas" that get shot at and hit, sh&t at and missed? Hell, anymore, it's hard to tell in this country....

However, like you, I would gladly give up my "big money" today - if it would lead to responsibility from this "so-called" band of "leaders". Until then - hell no.

Thank you sir for you comment, but more importantly for your service. Yes, sadly, there are a majority of our citizens that do not know nor can they fathom the sacrifices it takes to keep this country safe.

Negative, sir. I was a Mister after I returned from Vietnam. CW3. And thank you for YOUR Service!

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually, that's the left's definition of freedom.. Conservatives understand that with freedom comes great responsibility.

Do try and keep up.

Then how come they never take responsibility for the things they do?

 

[Londoner]

Six weeks after the start of the Iraq War, George Bush flew on to an aircraft carrier and declared that major combat operations were over in Iraq. Mission Accomplished.

What followed was one of the most mismanaged wars in world history. This was mirrored by a mismanagement of the economy so extreme that the United States of American lost the Housing and Financial sectors.

Bush's foreign and domestic policy failures were not just bad, they did lasting damage to the country. Had a democratic president did what Bush did - especially regarding war intelligence - that president would be impeached without question.

He leaned on the intelligence agencies to start a war we couldn't afford against a petty dictator who didn't attack us. Then he radically expanded credit to fuel a dead economy . . . until a nuclear bomb was dropped over our economy.

Listen to his words carefully. Listen to his plan for housing. They used loans to the poor to create Wall Street gold. It was the biggest scam in history. This country got rolled. The money is gone.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8]Home Ownership and President Bush - YouTube[/ame]

 

[rdean]

Six weeks after the start of the Iraq War, George Bush flew on to an aircraft carrier and declared that major combat operations were over in Iraq. Mission Accomplished.

What followed was one of the most mismanaged wars in world history. This was mirrored by a mismanagement of the economy so extreme that the United States of American lost the Housing and Financial sectors.

Bush's foreign and domestic policy failures were not just bad, they did lasting damage to the country. Had a democratic president did what Bush did - especially regarding war intelligence - that president would be impeached without question.

He leaned on the intelligence agencies to start a war we couldn't afford against a petty dictator who didn't attack us. Then he radically expanded credit to fuel a dead economy . . . until a nuclear bomb was dropped over our economy.

Listen to his words carefully. Listen to his plan for housing. They used loans to the poor to create Wall Street gold. It was the biggest scam in history. This country got rolled. The money is gone.
Home Ownership and President Bush - YouTube

And Republicans say "miss me yet?"

 

[theHawk]

Iraq
Whoever said Bush and the Republicans weren't responsible for Iraq? Bush overthrew the dictor Saddam, much to your disgust. I give him all the credit in the world for that. Personally I don't agree with the way he conducted that war, but I still give him the credit/responsibility of it.

the debt
The trillions in debt is due to both parties. Yes, Bush ran it up...so much he turned off conservatives and thats why Repubs lost the house in 2006. But since Dems have been in power since 2006, they've only made it worse. So I'm not sure what your point here is...if it's a bad thing then why do you want the current Congress to borrow another trillion to pay for ObamaCare? The only party showing any interest in reducing debt are Republicans....the Tea Party element at that.

The "dictator" Saddam was a bad person, but a 10 year war that eventually killed more people then he did and cost the US tremendously is hardly something to celebrate over.

The debt, under democrat government, has been shrinking even before the sequester went into place. Excluding the enormous spending binge the financial crisis caused...The democrats have done just about as good as you possibly could have with the debt. Let's look at the facts...under Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr the debt went up...every single year. Under Clinton and Obama, the Debt went down every single year (except Obama's first year, which he didn't have control over)

Oh gee, looks like we have yet another lying progressive hack.

National debt of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The debt has NEVER gone down in the last decade. We're talking ACTUAL dollars in debt, not some bullshit percentage change or ratio crap.

 

[theHawk]

Iraq
Whoever said Bush and the Republicans weren't responsible for Iraq? Bush overthrew the dictor Saddam, much to your disgust. I give him all the credit in the world for that. Personally I don't agree with the way he conducted that war, but I still give him the credit/responsibility of it.

The Iraq war was illegal and immoral. It had more in common with Nazi Germany, than it did with the principles this country was founded upon. Do you not know how wrong it is to attack someone, that did not attack you first? And it is not up to us to decide who can (and cannot) be the leader of a sovereign nation.

We spent over $4 trillion US taxpayers dollars on that war and what did we get in return? Nothing! Fucking nothing! If you wanna talk about unecessary government spending, that's a good place to start.

Yea, we were like Nazi Germany We gave Iraqis the ability to have elections and chose their own leader. But to you thats the same as rounding millions up and executing them.
The war was not illegal, only in the mind of leftist nutbags was it illegal.

the debt
The trillions in debt is due to both parties. Yes, Bush ran it up...so much he turned off conservatives and thats why Repubs lost the house in 2006. But since Dems have been in power since 2006, they've only made it worse. So I'm not sure what your point here is...if it's a bad thing then why do you want the current Congress to borrow another trillion to pay for ObamaCare? The only party showing any interest in reducing debt are Republicans....the Tea Party element at that.

Bullshit! Anyone serious about cutting the deficit, would start by cutting the defense budget. And no republican is willing to do that.

Thats because Republicans believe in having a strong defense, as do most Americans
I don't see many Democrats running on the platform of "lets gut the US military" and winning any elections.

The Bush Tax Cuts
I have no problem giving Bush credit/responsiblity for his "tax cuts". Obama and the fully controlled Dem Congress extended those same "tax cuts", although at that point they were simply the permenant tax rate for nearly 10 years. So if you have a problem with the current tax rates (e.g."Bush Tax Cuts"), then take it up with Obama and Reid.

The tax cuts reduced government revenue and contributed to the deficit we're facing now.

The deficit is due to not making enough spending cuts. If revenue falls, then it follows government spending should as well.

The economic meltdown
The Housing bubble is what caused the economic meltdown. Banks giving out loans to people for houses prices way over what they should of been worth. Also, giving out loans to people with bad credit, but that was largely because liberal enacted policies forced such banks to give loans to poor people...mainly blacks. Then of course there is Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, (D)-bag controlled agencies that refused to acknowledge the oncoming crisis, and just continued to force banks to give loans to "low income" families.

Wrong! De-regulation caused the meltdown. The derrivitives market ballooned to over 180 times the collective GNP of all the nations on the planet. The housing bubble never had numbers that high.

And the government did not tell banks to relax standard loan reviewing procedures, when vetting the credit worthiness of applicants. BTW, most of the defaulted loans were from private lenders.

The Mortgage backed securities were directly tied to real estate values plummeting the high rate of foreclosures. And yes, the government DID tell banks to relax standard loan reviewing procedures.

The Derivatives market has not yet crashed. If and when it does, that will be the real game over for the world economy.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Responsibility is funding infrastructure, science and technology enough to keep this nation running. Anything else is irresponsible.

 

[TooTall]

Responsibility is funding infrastructure, science and technology enough to keep this nation running. Anything else is irresponsible.

Borrowing a trillion dollars a year to fund anything is irresponsible.

 

[TooTall]

A simple question for you, I dare you to answer it honestly.

If the Deficit/debt is shrinking, why must we request the debt ceiling be raised?

If you're retired from the military, then maybe to pay your retirement?

I'd gladly give 1 year of my retirement to pay towards our national debt if it meant that I would never have my taxes raised and ensure SS would be there for me when I become eligible. But I seriously doubt that my measly retirement, or others like me who have earned it, is the cause for our national debt.

I served for 6 years in the USAF and anyone that put in 20 in any branch of the service deserves every penny they get in retirement and more. Everyone should show their appreciation for the career servicemen and women that sacrifice so much and dedicate their lives to protecting the freedom that we all enjoy. It is a sometimes abused cliche' but thank you for your service.

 

[midcan5]

The republicans while elected by the people are the party of money and corporations. The subterfuge that this is about the debt is the biggest con since Bernie. Actually it puts old Bernie to shame. Two wars and tax breaks for the wealthy have created the mess Americans finds themselves in today. The loss of regulation from Reagan through Clinton helped create the mess, add in gerrymandering and a congress of simpletons. But that does not matter as money comes from the people who gain most from the freedoms of the American system. They care not for the nation as outsourcing and taxes hidden overseas demonstrate. Why this is so hard for some to understand is simply beyond comprehension. I leave a few links below only as I realize too fully, politics in America is not rational. Stupidity rules the minds of too many. See link at bottom for our history.

"This is when the Republican Party set its trap. Meeting in closed sessions at the beginning of the Obama regime, the party of tax cuts for the rich, unfunded wars, and the largest deficit in the history of the country redefined itself. It suddenly became the party of deficit reduction through lean government joined to supreme confidence in unregulated financial and corporate markets. It even opposed the bail out of General Motors and Chrysler, though these actions stopped unemployment from reaching a dangerous tipping point, allowed the two companies time to reconstruct themselves, and enabled them to pay back the loans within two years–-creating one of the most successful bailouts in the history of Euro-American economic life." William E. Connolly See The Contemporary Condition: The Republican Pincer Machine

"The current government shutdown threatens to stall the already slow economic recovery from the Great Recession. But more is at stake here. Political philosophers from Aristotle to Locke have defined the nation-state as the highest form of political community. Locke, whose views are embedded in America’s Declaration of Independence, saw government as a result of a communal compact—a social contract—among peoples. What is happening in America is that this social contract is being voided, largely through the initiative of rightwing Republicans from the deep South and rural Midwest. America is not likely to become Afghanistan, but it could easily become Italy or Greece or even Weimar Germany." Shutdown Standoff: One of the Worst Crises in American History. | New Republic

"The boy looks alarmed."A Canadian destroyed the world, Papa?"" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/dowd-welcome-to-ted-cruzs-thunderdome.html

"Sarah Palin finally got her death panels — a direct blow from the Republican House. In shutting down the government, leaving 800,000 people without a paycheck and draining the economy of $300 million a day, the Party of Madness also took away last-chance cancer trials for children at the National Institutes of Health." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/wrong-side-of-history/

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...much-is-a-fair-share-taxes-4.html#post7319946
http://www.usmessageboard.com/scien...74-manufacturing-uncertainty.html#post7926257
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/220510-the-greatest-job-creator-of-all-time.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...naires-are-obligated-to-give.html#post7173896

What to read.

'The American Way of Poverty: How the Other Half Still Lives' Sasha Abramsky
'The Betrayal of the American Dream Hardcover' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele
'To Serve God and Wal-Mart: The Making of Christian Free Enterprise' Bethany Moreton
'Invisible Hands: The Businessmen's Crusade Against the New Deal' Kim Phillips-Fein
'Agnotology: The Making and Unmaking of Ignorance' by Robert Proctor, Londa Schiebinger
'Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming' Naomi Oreskes, Erik M. M. Conway
'The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy' Albert O. Hirschman
'The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin' Corey Robin

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Hands-Making-Conservative-Movement/dp/0393059308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247845984&sr=1-1]Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan: Kim Phillips-Fein: 9780393059304: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

 

[Nyvin]

Iraq
Whoever said Bush and the Republicans weren't responsible for Iraq? Bush overthrew the dictor Saddam, much to your disgust. I give him all the credit in the world for that. Personally I don't agree with the way he conducted that war, but I still give him the credit/responsibility of it.

the debt
The trillions in debt is due to both parties. Yes, Bush ran it up...so much he turned off conservatives and thats why Repubs lost the house in 2006. But since Dems have been in power since 2006, they've only made it worse. So I'm not sure what your point here is...if it's a bad thing then why do you want the current Congress to borrow another trillion to pay for ObamaCare? The only party showing any interest in reducing debt are Republicans....the Tea Party element at that.

The "dictator" Saddam was a bad person, but a 10 year war that eventually killed more people then he did and cost the US tremendously is hardly something to celebrate over.

The debt, under democrat government, has been shrinking even before the sequester went into place. Excluding the enormous spending binge the financial crisis caused...The democrats have done just about as good as you possibly could have with the debt. Let's look at the facts...under Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr the debt went up...every single year. Under Clinton and Obama, the Debt went down every single year (except Obama's first year, which he didn't have control over)

Oh gee, looks like we have yet another lying progressive hack.

National debt of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The debt has NEVER gone down in the last decade. We're talking ACTUAL dollars in debt, not some bullshit percentage change or ratio crap.

I was at work while typing that. Even though I already said it like 3 times now, I meant deficit not debt (that should be obvious) but to make you feel better I went back and edited the post.

Geez you guys sure do grab an opportunity huh??