The last time...

[Toddsterpatriot]

With the exception of trucks, all vehicles have become lighter. They have NOT become flimsier. The average weight of vehicles in collisions has gone down and so have the fatality rates.

What guaranteed or protected freedom is violated? Are you opposed to the rule of law? It forces behaviors.

With the exception of trucks, all vehicles have become lighter.

That's why death rates are higher than they should be.

 

[MisterBeale]

John D Rockefeller bought the land for $8.5 million and donated it to the UN for their headquarters. The building was funded by a loan for $65 million from the US government to the UN that was fully repaid. Big whoop.

As long as we are clear who the internationalists are behind all of this.

I am sure, you don't care who pays you, but the rest of us might.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

With the exception of trucks, all vehicles have become lighter. They have NOT become flimsier. The average weight of vehicles in collisions has gone down and so have the fatality rates.

What guaranteed or protected freedom is violated? Are you opposed to the rule of law? It forces behaviors.

What guaranteed or protected freedom is violated?

Violating my freedom only counts for "guaranteed or protected freedom"?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

With the exception of trucks, all vehicles have become lighter. They have NOT become flimsier. The average weight of vehicles in collisions has gone down and so have the fatality rates.

• Vehicle Size Compatibility: The continued growth in light truck sales relative to passenger car sales will continue to have a negative impact on overall fleet safety. This is due to differences in size, weight, and vehicle handling characteristics. The first and most alarming safety issue is that high profile vehicles are more prone to rollover during certain steering maneuvers. In addition, when high profile vehicles are in crashes with lower profile vehicles, the mismatch in size or weight creates significant hazards for occupants of the smaller vehicle.

• Aluminum and Plastic Exterior Components: Lighter vehicles built with aluminum and plastic may create additional safety problems due to the basic physics of a heavy object crashing into a lighter object. These lighter vehicles will also have engines with higher power output due to improved efficiency and lower weight thereby maintaining present day performance with increased fuel economy.

Link No Longer Available | NHTSA

one.nhtsa.gov

 

[Crick]

• Vehicle Size Compatibility: The continued growth in light truck sales relative to passenger car sales will continue to have a negative impact on overall fleet safety. This is due to differences in size, weight, and vehicle handling characteristics. The first and most alarming safety issue is that high profile vehicles are more prone to rollover during certain steering maneuvers. In addition, when high profile vehicles are in crashes with lower profile vehicles, the mismatch in size or weight creates significant hazards for occupants of the smaller vehicle.

• Aluminum and Plastic Exterior Components: Lighter vehicles built with aluminum and plastic may create additional safety problems due to the basic physics of a heavy object crashing into a lighter object. These lighter vehicles will also have engines with higher power output due to improved efficiency and lower weight thereby maintaining present day performance with increased fuel economy.

Link No Longer Available | NHTSA

one.nhtsa.gov

So, fatalities per VMT must have gone up, right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, fatalities per VMT must have gone up, right?

Why would you say that?

 

[Crick]

So, fatalities per VMT must have gone up, right?

This goes back to the false dichotomies you guys love so much. It is possible to make cars that are both safer and get better gas mileage.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This goes back to the false dichotomies you guys love so much. It is possible to make cars that are both safer and get better gas mileage.

If a new safety feature will reduce fatalities by 10%, for example, but some stupid twat decides
to boost CAFE standards to 54 mpg, because he doesn't understand physics, and
fatalities only drop by 2%, does the stupid twat get credit for saving lives?

Or blamed for costing lives?

 

[Crick]

If a new safety feature will reduce fatalities by 10%, for example, but some stupid twat decides
to boost CAFE standards to 54 mpg, because he doesn't understand physics, and
fatalities only drop by 2%, does the stupid twat get credit for saving lives?

Or blamed for costing lives?

Life's a bitch and then you die. How many people died from stylish steel dashboards with pointy knobs? How many people died before they started using shatterproof glass? How many people died before manufacturers were FORCED to include them? Cars have never been perfectly safe. Even when America was famous for the size of our cars, 50,000 Americans died every year in them. So don't give me this baloney that CAFE standards have cost lives.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Life's a bitch and then you die. How many people died from stylish steel dashboards with pointy knobs? How many people died before they started using shatterproof glass? How many people died before manufacturers were FORCED to include them? Cars have never been perfectly safe. Even when America was famous for the size of our cars, 50,000 Americans died every year in them. So don't give me this baloney that CAFE standards have cost lives.

Exactly!

Who cares if we kill an extra few thousand people a year?

 

[abu afak]

John D Rockefeller bought the land for $8.5 million and donated it to the UN for their headquarters. The building was funded by a loan for $65 million from the US government to the UN that was fully repaid. Big whoop.

You see, someone else with a suspicion would have googled it in 30 seconds.
But you're talking Mop-erator MisterBananaPeale.
`

 

[Crick]

Exactly!

Who cares if we kill an extra few thousand people a year?

But we're not. Less are dying. We could make cars invulnerable, but no one but the wealthy could afford to own them. That would upset that fellow who thinks there's a Constitutional right to own a 5.7l Hemi Ram truck so he can assemble with his buddies in the next state.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But we're not. Less are dying. We could make cars invulnerable, but no one but the wealthy could afford to own them. That would upset that fellow who thinks there's a Constitutional right to own a 5.7l Hemi Ram truck so he can assemble with his buddies in the next state.

But we're not. Less are dying.

But we are. More are dying because of CAFE standards.

 

[Crick]

But we're not. Less are dying.

But we are. More are dying because of CAFE standards.

Less are dying. Even fewer would be dying if America had not gone ape for SUVs and pickup trucks.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Less are dying. Even fewer would be dying if America had not gone ape for SUVs and pickup trucks.

Less are dying

Fewer.

Even fewer would be dying if America had not gone ape for SUVs and pickup trucks.

Even fewer would be dying if America eliminated CAFE standards.
How many more will die if we meet the 49 MPG goal for 2026?

How much lighter and more dangerous will those cars have to be to meet that standard?

 

[Crick]

Less are dying

Fewer.

Even fewer would be dying if America had not gone ape for SUVs and pickup trucks.

Even fewer would be dying if America eliminated CAFE standards.
How many more will die if we meet the 49 MPG goal for 2026?

How much lighter and more dangerous will those cars have to be to meet that standard?

EVs meet all CAFE standards and can weigh a ton if you like. Would that make you happy? How about hybrids? I have a 2021 Toyota Sienna minivan. It's huge. It has a 2.5l hybrid and gets 36 mpg combined. I've frequently gotten it over 50 mpg in town.

 

[Crick]

EVs meet all CAFE standards and can weigh a ton if you like. Would that make you happy? How about hybrids? I have a 2021 Toyota Sienna minivan. It's huge. It has a 2.5l hybrid and gets 36 mpg combined. I've frequently gotten it over 50 mpg in town.

Or hydrogen combustion. Or hydrogen combustion hybrid. Or fuel cell. It's only ICE vehicles that have to get light to meet CAFE standards, isn't it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

EVs meet all CAFE standards and can weigh a ton if you like. Would that make you happy? How about hybrids? I have a 2021 Toyota Sienna minivan. It's huge. It has a 2.5l hybrid and gets 36 mpg combined. I've frequently gotten it over 50 mpg in town.

EVs meet all CAFE standards and can weigh a ton if you like.

I guess you could make that work if you just put a seat on top of the battery.

I have a 2021 Toyota Sienna minivan. It's huge. It has a 2.5l hybrid and gets 36 mpg combined.

What would they have to change on your Sienna to get 49 mpg by 2026?

 

[Crick]

EVs meet all CAFE standards and can weigh a ton if you like.

I guess you could make that work if you just put a seat on top of the battery.

I have a 2021 Toyota Sienna minivan. It's huge. It has a 2.5l hybrid and gets 36 mpg combined.

What would they have to change on your Sienna to get 49 mpg by 2026?

A smaller engine and perhaps a larger battery. The Sienna has a relatively small battery for a hybrid. It runs under the two front seats. Maybe some streamlining on the rear end. Big flat backends are not aerodynamic.

And, of course, all the material used to prevent passenger injury in case of a collision would have to be replaced with cotton candy. ; - )

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A smaller engine and perhaps a larger battery. The Sienna has a relatively small battery for a hybrid. It runs under the two front seats. Maybe some streamlining on the rear end. Big flat backends are not aerodynamic.

And, of course, all the material used to prevent passenger injury in case of a collision would have to be replaced with cotton candy. ; - )

A smaller engine and perhaps a larger battery

That's all it would take to go from 36 mpg to 49 mpg?