The Presumption of Innocence or Death of America.. That is what Congress is deciding today..

[Billy_Bob]

"Death of America" might be overstating the case a little bit, but there could be some positives to come out of this whole mess. Starting with the value and importance of the presumption of innocence, there are many in our society who seem to think that it's okay to assume guilt based on feelings instead of facts. Emotions over evidence and data ought not to rule the day, in or out of a courtroom. Justice has to apply to the accused as much as to the accuser, there is a long-standing axiom that it is better to free nine guilty people rather than convict one innocent person. Some say that only matters in a court of law, but I say bullshit to that. It could happen to you or someone you care about at school or at work or on the street where you live. Injustice has to be opposed at every turn, we're all entitled to our opinions but if you are convinced of someone's guilt based on nothing more than the way he looks then I hope you never get summoned for jury duty.

Another positive thing that could come out of this mess is the discussion over sexual misconduct and how to deal with it from both the perspective of the victim and also the perp, not just applying justice after the fact but I hope also some thought to prevention in the 1st place so it doesn't happen as often. It can be a teachable moment for parents and teachers and all adults really, to talk to our kids (both genders). The problem isn't totally going away anytime soon unfortunately, but we oughta be working on reducing it as much as possible.

And finally, the manner in which the Senate handles it's business when it comes to confirmations has been deeply disappointing. There are some changes they can make and I hope they do so, such as closing off the hearings to the public so you don't have the screamers and shouters disrupting the proceedings. Watching it all transpire on TV oughta satisfy the people right to see what's going on. The other thing is looking into these last-minute accusations after the hearings are over; seems to me the Senate has it's own investigators that can immediately look into such allegations IF WARRANTED. No more of this bullshit where unsubstantiated claims delay the process, that is not fair to the accused nominee, and no more of this bullshot where a Senator waits until the last minute to bring such charges. The Senate has procedures for handling whistleblowers and the like who want to remain anonymous like Ford did; IMHO she was badly treated by the Dems who were supposed to be on her side and yet somebody outed her against her wishes and that sucks.

Lastly, "Death to America" is not going to happen no matter which way this vote goes. It is my hope that the tactics that the Dems employed to delay this confirmation come back to bite them in the ass, not only if Kavanaugh gets confirmed anyway but also next month if they lose seats in the Senate, maybe due at least in part to their disreputable actions. Much has been written about the loss of confidence in the integrity of the FBI, DOJ, IRS, State Dept, and several other gov't institutions. Sadly, that is also true lately for the US Senate. One hopes that all of these organizations clean up their act, which right now are not all that honorable.

If we lose the presumption of innocence then all other aspects of our government soon fail.. That we have lost trust in our main government agencies only multiplies the distrust... This is a slippery slope..

 

[task0778]

"Death of America" might be overstating the case a little bit, but there could be some positives to come out of this whole mess. Starting with the value and importance of the presumption of innocence, there are many in our society who seem to think that it's okay to assume guilt based on feelings instead of facts. Emotions over evidence and data ought not to rule the day, in or out of a courtroom. Justice has to apply to the accused as much as to the accuser, there is a long-standing axiom that it is better to free nine guilty people rather than convict one innocent person. Some say that only matters in a court of law, but I say bullshit to that. It could happen to you or someone you care about at school or at work or on the street where you live. Injustice has to be opposed at every turn, we're all entitled to our opinions but if you are convinced of someone's guilt based on nothing more than the way he looks then I hope you never get summoned for jury duty.

Another positive thing that could come out of this mess is the discussion over sexual misconduct and how to deal with it from both the perspective of the victim and also the perp, not just applying justice after the fact but I hope also some thought to prevention in the 1st place so it doesn't happen as often. It can be a teachable moment for parents and teachers and all adults really, to talk to our kids (both genders). The problem isn't totally going away anytime soon unfortunately, but we oughta be working on reducing it as much as possible.

And finally, the manner in which the Senate handles it's business when it comes to confirmations has been deeply disappointing. There are some changes they can make and I hope they do so, such as closing off the hearings to the public so you don't have the screamers and shouters disrupting the proceedings. Watching it all transpire on TV oughta satisfy the people right to see what's going on. The other thing is looking into these last-minute accusations after the hearings are over; seems to me the Senate has it's own investigators that can immediately look into such allegations IF WARRANTED. No more of this bullshit where unsubstantiated claims delay the process, that is not fair to the accused nominee, and no more of this bullshot where a Senator waits until the last minute to bring such charges. The Senate has procedures for handling whistleblowers and the like who want to remain anonymous like Ford did; IMHO she was badly treated by the Dems who were supposed to be on her side and yet somebody outed her against her wishes and that sucks.

Lastly, "Death to America" is not going to happen no matter which way this vote goes. It is my hope that the tactics that the Dems employed to delay this confirmation come back to bite them in the ass, not only if Kavanaugh gets confirmed anyway but also next month if they lose seats in the Senate, maybe due at least in part to their disreputable actions. Much has been written about the loss of confidence in the integrity of the FBI, DOJ, IRS, State Dept, and several other gov't institutions. Sadly, that is also true lately for the US Senate. One hopes that all of these organizations clean up their act, which right now are not all that honorable.

If we lose the presumption of innocence then all other aspects of our government soon fail.. That we have lost trust in our main government agencies only multiplies the distrust... This is a slippery slope..

True, but faith and trust can be restored under the right leadership and if enough people on both sides stop listening to the extremists and instead vote for more moderate candidates. A few years back we had a TEA Party movement that basically started out about taxes I think, and it grew into a political force. Well maybe we need the same thing again only this time not about taxes but about responsible and efficacious gov't, from all sides. But right now the leadership in either party isn't there and we don't yet have the groundswell of support cuz we're still too deeply divided. It's gonna have to start with a few leaders from both parties and a few leaders from the outside, maybe a 3rd political party but it doesn't have to be that way.