The Reason for Poverty Among Blacks is Not Racism

[IM2]

So you followed the "rules" the OP posted about being successful and you are successful.......Interesting!

Every step of the way I faced white racism. OK? That's something no one should have to endure. The reason for black poverty are not the things some white racist female says. There are millions like me who did the same and live in poverty. You guys have been shown information that shows what you believe is crap, but you cling to the lie.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today. You bring up your past to excuse your failures. Big difference. You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.

You want to talk about resentment some whites have? I'll be glad to talk about it. So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color? A simple yes or no answer will suffice. Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people?

People of different races can live together in peace. People of different cultures can't. This is why whites can successfully live together with all kinds of different people with no problems. We can live with Asians, we can live with people of middle-east decent, we can live with people of Hispanic decent. Why is that? Because these other groups of people don't move in and close our stores down with theft. They don't move in and destroy our schools. They don't move in and toss garbage all over the sidewalks and streets. They don't make it unsafe to walk to your convenient store at night. They don't destroy our property values. They don't force cities to close down public events because you can't assemble any number of these people without it breaking out into gang fights or riots.

So if you say that the resentment is because of skin color, it's just as much of a lie as saying your failures are because of your skin color. But if you say the resentment comes from how blacks conduct themselves, then you are dead on. How can anybody not be resentful when their property lost value instead of gaining value in the past 20 years or so? How can anybody not be resentful when they have to travel to the other side of town where it's white just to go shopping at a major store?

So now we're getting to the truth.

I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the perceptions that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they perpetuated that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down. The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.



I was not objecting to you all discussing your families, only to the double standard that you have when I bring up mine.

And YOU keep saying the same thing over and over, calling me a racist, and asking the same question about why I don’t “lecture” the poor whites in Appalachia. I’ve told you a zillion times that the POINT of this thread is that it isn’t racism that keeps the black subclass poor, but their poor choices - which are the same poor choices as poor whites. The difference is that the whites aren’t blaming racism, and blacks like you are.

And where did I mock black people? You are so deluded with thinking people who refuse to hold black responsible for their own choices are racist or mocking. With that line of thinking, no blacks are ever responsible for the way they turn out because…..racism.

Also, because of your delusions and insistence that people who don’t excuse away every failure among poor blacks are racist, you got mixed up with the years. But yes….10 years to rise from poverty to the middle class in my family. No help. Dad went from being a 20-year-old college student (no babies….) living in a tenement to being the owner of a house in the suburbs at age 30. The two generations refers to the amount of time blacks have had to take advantage of favoritism in college admissions (and plenty have), and if a minority of blacks are still poor after that, that’s their fault.

I’ll end with this. This will be the fifth time I’ve asked, and younahve skirted the question the previous four times: If racism is why 25% of blacks are stuck in poverty, then how are 75% NOT in poverty?

(And stop with your sanctimonious ”I know what you are“ remarks. For someone accusing others of acting superior, you sure hold yourself up to be a better person than I - and you are not.)

Maybe this will clear things up a bit however I'm not going to hold my breath.

You, as a white woman, chose to post on a public message board an allegedly benign recommendation as to how poor black people can climb out of poverty. Despite your protestations to the contrary, you singled out black people as the subject of your commentary, correction "poor" black people. That comment about poor white people [as well] does nothing to negate how your comment came across.

Poor black people are the demographic with the least amount of power in the social-economic hierarchy so your comment went over all well as if your thread had been entitled "The problem with the darkies".

Had you introduced your topic as an invitation to discuss the differences between blacks and whites living in poverty I believe you would have gotten a different response presuming though 1) that you want honest debate and 2) not merely a platform from which to denigrate black people, especially those living in poverty.

When it was pointed out to you that you singling out black people makes you look like a racist, instead of self-correcting you doubled-down and shifted into hypermode. When it was additionally pointed out to you that your premise is faulty because the white supremacist laws that were put in place at the founding of this country undergirds EVERY aspect of the lives of black people in the United States and therefore we don't start from the same place in our upward trajectory, instead of pondering how that could be and what the implications of something of that nature are, you along with the rest of USMB's resident racists went on the attack with the same old tired bullshit regarding black people. That nothing in our lives is within our control, that racism is just an excuse, we blame everything on racism, we're all failures, blah blah blah, yeah we've heard it all before.

You probably won't live long enough to ever realize the errors of your ways, but you're wrong as are your supporters. I've been giving you all the benefit of the doubt that you have the ability to expand your minds, do some real research and perhaps understand the perspectives of someone black who has lived the things we've explained to you all instead of you all just having read about them.

I understand what it feel like to not want to read or know about certain things, I get that. But if you choose to remain willfully ignorant about black people in America and our history that's certainly your choice and your right. But if you continue to make false statements about us or any of our history then that is a whole different situation because white racists lying on black people and lying about us traditionally has had the potential to cause harm to us.

And for the record, I have never indicated that I am "better" than you. That would be a very arrogant statement for anyone to make. On the other hand, there are a lot of white people who presume they are better than us with no supporting evidence of any sort. It's particularly amusing when they know little to nothing about their own history, the history of the U.S. and nothing but erroneous beliefs when it comes to black people EXCEPT for the fact that white people at one time in this country had the legal right to dominion over the black race. I'm sure they long for a return to such times.

I presume there are things that you are more knowledgeable about than myself just as I know there are things I'm more knowledgeable about than you, Ray and Monk. Part of it is because my dad taught us to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave, the other part is because it's required as part of my profession.

What can you concede?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The resentment is because of race

And all that it implies.

 

[IM2]

And so are you... They've justified their racism in their heads, you've justified yours....

No Joe it's not the same. This doesn't seem to register. Ray and Lisa were taught racist beliefs. Paul has faced racism. All his life. Just like I have. Ray and Lisa believe what they do based on lies. Paul believes what he does because of the way he has seen whites treat him and other blacks. You really have got to start understanding this instead of creating a false equivalence.

Now don't try giving me some easy solution based on your opinion because until you live for years facing racism every day or the threat of it, you do not know how it feels.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward.

Racism is an impediment. How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.

There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents. But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.

UNTIL racism is removed completely, which personally, I don't believe it will be or can be, at least not during my lifetime, the suspicion and possibility that it has contributed to a negative outcome cannot be discounted. That is a scientific fact, or mathematical if you prefer.

I know you don't want to believe that racism has ANYTHING to do with ANY of the problems that black people face, even as we continue our upward climb, but that belief is just not factual.

 

[IM2]

Really?
How about when the Japanese Americans were interned during WWII?
Or when we engaged in a genocidal war in the Philippines?
Or when we passed a Chinese Exclusion act after bringing Chinese men over here to build the railroads, and then excluded their families?

All those things went on while blacks were under Jim Crow. You need to quit dismissing how blacks feel with things like this. It makes you look racist. Paul is talking about what blacks have experienced. How about trying to discuss that instead of what you're doing?

 

[AZrailwhale]

So now we're getting to the truth.

I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the perceptions that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they perpetuated that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down. The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.



I was not objecting to you all discussing your families, only to the double standard that you have when I bring up mine.

Maybe this will clear things up a bit however I'm not going to hold my breath.

You, as a white woman, chose to post on a public message board an allegedly benign recommendation as to how poor black people can climb out of poverty. Despite your protestations to the contrary, you singled out black people as the subject of your commentary, correction "poor" black people. That comment about poor white people [as well] does nothing to negate how your comment came across.

Poor black people are the demographic with the least amount of power in the social-economic hierarchy so your comment went over all well as if your thread had been entitled "The problem with the darkies".

Had you introduced your topic as an invitation to discuss the differences between blacks and whites living in poverty I believe you would have gotten a different response presuming though 1) that you want honest debate and 2) not merely a platform from which to denigrate black people, especially those living in poverty.

When it was pointed out to you that you singling out black people makes you look like a racist, instead of self-correcting you doubled-down and shifted into hypermode. When it was additionally pointed out to you that your premise is faulty because the white supremacist laws that were put in place at the founding of this country undergirds EVERY aspect of the lives of black people in the United States and therefore we don't start from the same place in our upward trajectory, instead of pondering how that could be and what the implications of something of that nature are, you along with the rest of USMB's resident racists went on the attack with the same old tired bullshit regarding black people. That nothing in our lives is within our control, that racism is just an excuse, we blame everything on racism, we're all failures, blah blah blah, yeah we've heard it all before.

You probably won't live long enough to ever realize the errors of your ways, but you're wrong as are your supporters. I've been giving you all the benefit of the doubt that you have the ability to expand your minds, do some real research and perhaps understand the perspectives of someone black who has lived the things we've explained to you all instead of you all just having read about them.

I understand what it feel like to not want to read or know about certain things, I get that. But if you choose to remain willfully ignorant about black people in America and our history that's certainly your choice and your right. But if you continue to make false statements about us or any of our history then that is a whole different situation because white racists lying on black people and lying about us traditionally has had the potential to cause harm to us.

And for the record, I have never indicated that I am "better" than you. That would be a very arrogant statement for anyone to make. On the other hand, there are a lot of white people who presume they are better than us with no supporting evidence of any sort. It's particularly amusing when they know little to nothing about their own history, the history of the U.S. and nothing but erroneous beliefs when it comes to black people EXCEPT for the fact that white people at one time in this country had the legal right to dominion over the black race. I'm sure they long for a return to such times.

I presume there are things that you are more knowledgeable about than myself just as I know there are things I'm more knowledgeable about than you, Ray and Monk. Part of it is because my dad taught us to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave, the other part is because it's required as part of my profession.

What can you concede?

You don’t come out and say you are better than whites. You say we are worse than you. Tomato, tomahto.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Racism is an impediment. How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.

There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents. But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.

UNTIL racism is removed completely, which personally, I don't believe it will be or can be, at least not during my lifetime, the suspicion and possibility that it has contributed to a negative outcome cannot be discounted. That is a scientific fact, or mathematical if you prefer.

I know you don't want to believe that racism has ANYTHING to do with ANY of the problems that black people face, even as we continue our upward climb, but that belief is just not factual.

Racism won’t ever be erased. All races suffer from racism.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You are the one telling us that race is your crutch

NO, you all are the ones telling us that any reference to racism is NOTHING MORE than a crutch used by black people. You discount racism entirely as if it doesn't exist.

Just because the laws changed doesn't mean the people's attitudes have changed. There are lots of people who will tell you "I don't care what law they passed saying I can't text & drive anymore, I'm gonna still do it". Or drink & drive or whatever, people selectively obey the laws they want to and not the ones they don't agree sometimes.

There is a lot of residual racism left in this country.

Our country has lived with LAWFUL discrimination and racism towards black people for almost 4 times longer than it has lived without. You all want almost 200 years of damage to be reversed in barely than 58 years.

That's not a reasonable expectation.

 

[Indeependent]

NO, you all are the ones telling us that any reference to racism is NOTHING MORE than a crutch used by black people. You discount racism entirely as if it doesn't exist.

Just because the laws changed doesn't mean the people's attitudes have changed. There are lots of people who will tell you "I don't care what law they passed saying I can't text & drive anymore, I'm gonna still do it". Or drink & drive or whatever, people selectively obey the laws they want to and not the ones they don't agree sometimes.

There is a lot of residual racism left in this country.

Our country has lived with LAWFUL discrimination and racism towards black people for almost 4 times longer than it has lived without. You all want almost 200 years of damage to be reversed in barely than 58 years.

That's not a reasonable expectation.

We figure 58 years of welfare checks is enough.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You don’t come out and say you are better than whites. You say we are worse than you. Tomato, tomahto.

I never said I personally was better than anyone white, or anything to indicate that I believe that the black race is better than the white race.

I was talking about specific individuals here who happen to be white racists. Some are self-admitted white racists, the others keep saying things to indicate that they are racists yet pitch a hissy fit if you call them one.

Don't let them confuse you.

 

[MarathonMike]

If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault. However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor. I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.

Go look up how old Jim Crow laws are and then come back and tell us why the CURRENT GENERATION of Blacks are still held down by these ancient and defunct laws.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

NO, you all are the ones telling us that any reference to racism is NOTHING MORE than a crutch used by black people. You discount racism entirely as if it doesn't exist.

Just because the laws changed doesn't mean the people's attitudes have changed. There are lots of people who will tell you "I don't care what law they passed saying I can't text & drive anymore, I'm gonna still do it". Or drink & drive or whatever, people selectively obey the laws they want to and not the ones they don't agree sometimes.

There is a lot of residual racism left in this country.

Our country has lived with LAWFUL discrimination and racism towards black people for almost 4 times longer than it has lived without. You all want almost 200 years of damage to be reversed in barely than 58 years.

That's not a reasonable expectation.

Who said anything about reversing it? What we are saying is that it's not applicable to your situation today nor anybody else of your race.

Assuming you are not using the word "racism" as defined by any dictionary, and using the word to describe discrimination against black people, I'm sure it happens, but it's very rare these days, and certainly not nearly enough to hold a large percentage of people back, especially when the majority has moved well beyond that. The "damage" you speak of was not done to you, it was done to people before you ended up on this planet, many of whom you never even met.

There is a huge difference between going to jail for a DUI, or perhaps a traffic violation for not paying attention to your driving, and risking a huge lawsuit and reputation of your company. The risk is much greater with the latter which is why it's very rare.

 

[MarathonMike]

I never said I personally was better than anyone white, or anything to indicate that I believe that the black race is better than the white race.

I was talking about specific individuals here who happen to be white racists. Some are self-admitted white racists, the others keep saying things to indicate that they are racists yet pitch a hissy fit if you call them one.

Don't let them confuse you.

You are the one who is confused. There will ALWAYS be individuals who are Racists. There will always be White Racists, Black Racists, Brown Racists etc. Fortunately as the world matures, the majority of individuals becomes less Racist with each generation as is clearly evident by the last 60 years of American history.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Racism is an impediment. How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.

There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents. But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.

UNTIL racism is removed completely, which personally, I don't believe it will be or can be, at least not during my lifetime, the suspicion and possibility that it has contributed to a negative outcome cannot be discounted. That is a scientific fact, or mathematical if you prefer.

I know you don't want to believe that racism has ANYTHING to do with ANY of the problems that black people face, even as we continue our upward climb, but that belief is just not factual.

It's very factual. I was a child of the 60's and 70's. I went to school with black people once I left Catholic grade school. I and my black classmates all had the opportunity to attend college or trade school. We all had the opportunity to get jobs, especially blacks given the laws that were passed along the way. I made the conscious decision never to get married or have children. I made real estate investments, played the stock market for a while, spent a couple of years in the commodities market, all things any black person could have done, but most didn't.

In my middle age I decided I wasn't making enough money, my skills not desired enough, so I learned how to drive a tractor-trailer, something any black person could have done and can still do today. Do you know Walmart is offering drivers salaries into the six figure range? And no, they will not hold the experience of your ancestors against you.

Can you name me a bank that ever called police because a black person looked suspicious, or a police officer that pulled over a black person when they had no infraction of the law?

Urban legends are just that, phony stories. 50 years ago? Maybe, but not in my lifetime as an adult.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

We figure 58 years of welfare checks is enough.

Let's see, 243 years that the United States has been in existence. 57 years since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

That's 186 years of LAWFUL RACIAL DISCRIMINATION against black people versus 57 years where such RACIAL DISCRIMINATION is UNLAWFUL.

I see your bullshit claim of 58 years of "welfare" (you made a mistake, it's not 58 yet) and raise you 186+ years of reparations.

And you all should give your government welfare checks that you received during COVID back to the government if you're so opposed to "welfare".

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You are the one who is confused. There will ALWAYS be individuals who are Racists. There will always be White Racists, Black Racists, Brown Racists etc. Fortunately as the world matures, the majority of individuals becomes less Racist with each generation as is clearly evident by the last 60 years of American history.

You apparently do not understand the definition of confusion since your comment lent nothing to clarify what you believe I'm confused about.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So now we're getting to the truth.

I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the perceptions that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they perpetuated that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down. The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.

Property values don't go down because of perception, they go down when things change for the negative. White Flight has been a term used in the past couple of generations. Are you telling me that blacks cannot maintain property value without whites? And if so, why not?

If you go to the horse races and keep laying money on the horse Silver Bells, but Silver Bells always loses the race, how long before you stop laying a bet on that horse? When people realize blacks are moving in, they naturally expect their neighborhood or city to replicate what happens to just about every other city when blacks move in. In fear of losing a hell of a lot of money or for the safety of their family, they get the hell away from the blacks.

If blacks would ever change this trend, that will eliminate white flight. But don't blame whites for the actions of blacks. It's disingenuous. As I stated before, whites can live with just about any other group of people except blacks, and it's not because of their pigmentation either.

 

[Westender]

Try not using wikipedia then recognize there are 30 categories of crime and in 2020 whites led in 28. Murder amounted to a small amount of overall crime. Whites committed more rapes than blacks did murder.. The same goes for assault and battery

There's 6 whites to every 1 black.

 

[IM2]

You don’t come out and say you are better than whites. You say we are worse than you. Tomato, tomahto.

Nobody says that. We point to whites who exhibit a certain behavior. That behavior is racism. This means we recognize other whites are better than whites who are racists. You and those here who believe similarly seem to believe that all whites are racists.