The Reason for Poverty Among Blacks is Not Racism

[JoeB131]

Finally, for the sixth (6th!) time: if racism is why 25% of blacks are in poverty, then why are 75% of blacks NOT in poverty?

Because they work hard despite racism...

Also, your numbers are wrong... 19.2% of blacks live below poverty line, while 8.2% of whites do.

What in the world is your point? That a middle class family had babies? Nobody on this thead said that blacks and whites shouldn’t marry. That’s how White Suoremacists think, and nobody here is one,

I think his point was that the black boyfriend in the first picture was out of the picture by the second picture, but the kid was still there.... So it was a backhanded slap at black people not knowing what the relationship issues were at that point.

 

[JoeB131]

It's a shame people born here don't value liberty and opportunity as much as foreigners who come here, but it is what it is.

Or, maybe black people watch the Jews, the Germans, the Irish, The Italians all jump in line ahead of them, and then they see the Asians and the Hispanics jump in line ahead of them, too.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Considering that you think you can tell blacks what they have lived through is not so, or the reason for a problem cannot be what blacks say they are, but can only be the way you, lisa or monk say is pretty much telling us that you're better because of your skin color.

When TF did any of us ever say that? You are the one telling us that race is your crutch, and it's us telling you that it's not. That's racist? It seems to me it's quite the opposite. We are telling you that you and people of your race have no disabilities when it comes to financial stability or success. We are looking at you as individuals, not as the kid on the short bus like the Democrats do. We are saying we are Americans, and you too are an American, perfectly capable of advancing yourself with your own hard work, good decisions and merits just like anybody else.

If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward. All blacks would be poor, in prison, unable to manage your own affairs. But that's not true is it? There are plenty of people in your race that do just fine, in fact most do. What does that tell us? It tells us that much like our race, success or failure is generally based on your decision making, not your race. How can we deliver anymore positive advice than that?

 

[Turtlesoup]

Or, maybe black people watch the Jews, the Germans, the Irish, The Italians all jump in line ahead of them, and then they see the Asians and the Hispanics jump in line ahead of them, too.

Jump in what line?

 

[Turtlesoup]

Considering that you think you can tell blacks what they have lived through is not so, or the reason for a problem cannot be what blacks say they are, but can only be the way you, lisa or monk say is pretty much telling us that you're better because of your skin color.

I am the one that does that. History says what the race hos say isn't true. Black activists claims of Floyd and others being the victims---almost never holds water. People lie--especially people who support criminal activity.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Because they work hard despite racism...

Also, your numbers are wrong... 19.2% of blacks live below poverty line, while 8.2% of whites do.



I think his point was that the black boyfriend in the first picture was out of the picture by the second picture, but the kid was still there.... So it was a backhanded slap at black people not knowing what the relationship issues were at that point.

Collecting welfare working part times at mcdonalds is not working hard hun.

 

[JoeB131]

Collecting welfare working part times at mcdonalds is not working hard hun.

I'd like to see anyone who says shit like that have to work for a week at McDonalds... you wouldn't last a week.

What should happen is McDonald's should pay everyone a living wage, not cheat them at every opportunity.

If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward. All blacks would be poor, in prison, unable to manage your own affairs. But that's not true is it? There are plenty of people in your race that do just fine, in fact most do. What does that tell us? It tells us that much like our race, success or failure is generally based on your decision making, not your race. How can we deliver anymore positive advice than that?

No one is saying you can't overcome the obstacles, the question is, why are the obstacles still there to start with? Sure, there are lots of successful black people, who still have to put up with being racially profiled, or pulled over for a DWB.

Do I need to show the tape of the black Second Lt. who got guns shoved in his face over a traffic stop?

 

[IM2]

When TF did any of us ever say that? You are the one telling us that race is your crutch, and it's us telling you that it's not. That's racist? It seems to me it's quite the opposite. We are telling you that you and people of your race have no disabilities when it comes to financial stability or success. We are looking at you as individuals, not as the kid on the short bus like the Democrats do. We are saying we are Americans, and you too are an American, perfectly capable of advancing yourself with your own hard work, good decisions and merits just like anybody else.

If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward. All blacks would be poor, in prison, unable to manage your own affairs. But that's not true is it? There are plenty of people in your race that do just fine, in fact most do. What does that tell us? It tells us that much like our race, success or failure is generally based on your decision making, not your race. How can we deliver anymore positive advice than that?

You're saying this in all your posts. Racism is the problem. Madame CJ Walker became a millionaire during Jim Crow, so don't talk stupid. Blacks are 13 percent of the population with 2 percent of the wealth. No matter how low poverty is blacks live at double the rate. No matter how low unemployment is, blacks have double the unemployment rate. Black median income has always been lower than whites regardless of education. Blacks get paid less than whites even when their education and experience are the same. None of this is because people are having babies you, not graduating high school or whatever else whitey wants to define for us as the problem.

You can't tell me shit white boy. I am telling you that the root cause of this problem is white racism and unlike you, I have the economic data that supports my opinion. The problem we have are due to decisions made by whites in power. You're an ignorant uneducated white man who tried to argue about an economic matter using birth rates and incarceration rates. And all your arguments refuse to factor in white racism which is a reality we face whether your white ass likes hearing it or not. So shut up being white trying to tell me how things are for blacks.

 

[IM2]

I don’t know where to start with all your bullshit.

1) Saying that racism is not to blame for the minority of blacks being in poverty - but their own choices, just as it is with whites - is not denigrating them. It’s pointing out that racism isn’t the cause.

2) Odd how you accuse me of feeling superior, and then you lash out - since you feel you can judge people - that my background is lacking. YOUR background is lacking. People raised right don‘t go around calling people evil, and when that is pointed out to them, double down and insist…..yes, you ARE evil. What kind of decent person with a proper upbringing does that?

3) And we are not allowed to describe any black person as angry? You are certainly angry, lashing out at people with nasty accusations simply because they fail to submit to your beliefs?

Finally, for the sixth (6th!) time: if racism is why 25% of blacks are in poverty, then why are 75% of blacks NOT in poverty?

Racism is the problem. You've never lived as a black person to face it, so shut your fucking mouth. 1 in 4 blacks live in poverty. I in 12 whites do. But you don't see the problem. In 2020, the American household median income was $67,521 per year. The median income for non-Hispanic White households was $74.912; for Blacks households, $45,870.50 Black household median income was 61 percent of white households in 2020.

But racism is not the problem.

Payscale did a two-year study from 2017 to 2019, and this is their conclusion: "we find equal pay for equal work is still not a reality." They studied the earnings of white men and men of color using data from 1.8 million employees. They found that no matter how far they advanced, black men made less than white men with the same qualifications. According to the study, “black men were the only racial/ethnic group not achieving pay parity with white men at some level."

But racism is not the problem.

"Even after completing undergraduate and graduate degrees, black and Hispanic workers earned less than non-Hispanic white workers with the same, or often less, education."
- Roy Eduardo Kokoyachuk, ThinkNow Research

Kokoyachuck found that blacks and Hispanics with college degrees were paid less than whites and Asians with comparable education. His study showed that blacks and Hispanics who graduated in S.T.E.M majors earned less than whites and Asians with degrees in those same majors. "Even when Blacks and Hispanics go the extra mile and earn professional degrees, their incomes still don’t break six figures. Whites and Asians, however, double their incomes by earning professional degrees, allowing them to make well over $100,000 a year."

The National Women’s Law Center also showed that black women are paid less than other women. Black women are paid 63 cents for every dollar paid to white men based on calculations used in the study. Where this impacts black single mothers is this study shows a pay difference of over 20,000 dollars per year. "Black women have to work more than 19 months—until the very last day of July—to make as much as white, non-Hispanic men did in the previous 12-month calendar year." Black women in high-wage occupations earn 64 cents for every dollar a white man earns. On average, that is 40,000 dollars per year less than white men in those same occupations.

But racism is not the problem.

At no time from 1959 through 2020 have whites and blacks come close to having equal income. It has not mattered whether America was practicing segregation. It has not mattered that blacks have become better educated. It has not mattered if black households were traditional two parent, two cars, a dog, two children having, good church-going members of American society. We have had two terms of a black president, and still, the median income for blacks has been less than whites. Most certainly, if a black man can manage a nation, he can run a corporation. If a black woman can run the second-largest Department of Justice in America and serve as Vice President, she can manage your local Wal-Mart. Sixty-eight years ago, Brown v. Topeka ended segregation in schools. Fifty-eight years ago, Civil Rights for everyone became law. This situation is not about the failure of “black culture” or so-called liberal handout policies. The root cause of the problems blacks face today is continuing white racism.

So just stop asking dumb ass questions. The cause is racism. This is not debatable.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're saying this in all your posts. Racism is the problem. Madame CJ Walker became a millionaire during Jim Crow, so don't talk stupid. Blacks are 13 percent of the population with 2 percent of the wealth. No matter how low poverty is blacks live at double the rate. No matter how low unemployment is, blacks have double the unemployment rate. Black median income has always been lower than whites regardless of education. Blacks get paid less than whites even when their education and experience are the same. None of this is because people are having babies you, not graduating high school or whatever else whitey wants to define for us as the problem.

You can't tell me shit white boy. I am telling you that the root cause of this problem is white racism and unlike you, I have the economic data that supports my opinion. The problem we have are due to decisions made by whites in power. You're an ignorant uneducated white man who tried to argue about an economic matter using birth rates and incarceration rates. And all your arguments refuse to factor in white racism which is a reality we face whether your white ass likes hearing it or not. So shut up being white trying to tell me how things are for blacks.

You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed. Zero. I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work. Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them. All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism. Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.

 

[Lisa558]

You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed. Zero. I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work. Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them. All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism. Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.

Actually, he hit upon the answer to the question I’ve been asking for days now, and to which none of these “blame racism!” leftists will respond:

If racism is why 20% or so are blacks remain in poverty, then how do you explain why 80% or so of blacks are NOT in poverty?”

The leftist upthread inadvertently answered it: because they work hard. So in other words, it’s not racism that is keeping the subset of blacks poor, it’s because they have chosen not to work (or to work hard). While I don’t think that’s it exactly - the real reasons are the babies and lack of schooling - but the underlying message is the same: the blacks making the right choice and doing the same thing move out of poverty.

 

[Lisa558]

You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed. Zero. I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work. Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them. All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism. Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.

Also, the harm in this thinking is that in removes any responsibility from blacks to do the correct thing to move beyond poverty, and that the only determination of whether racism is “over” is when blacks have the same net income and education as whites.

The problem is that there then is no effort or motivation for blacks themselves to correct the behavior that is correlated so closely with poverty. As long as blacks keep giving birth to the majority of children out of wedlock, they will never catch up to whites, on average.

 

[IM2]

What does being angry get you? I've had a lot of shitty things happen to me in my life, and frankly, I'm still angry about some of them. Angry doesn't solve the problem. Being angry at people who didn't cause the problem is part of it.

It got blacks voting rights and civil rights. Anger channeled constructively can be used positively. Don't think for one second that Dr. King was not as pissed off as Malcolm X. Both men expressed their anger differently. We have the right to be angry and we have faced more than the normal "shitty things just happen to people" stuff.

Ray doesn't want to talk to me right now, but I get some of his anger. He worked all his life to buy his property, which isn't worth the money he paid for it because his neighborhood has changed due to the Government dumping a bunch of Section 8 people into it. Because he didn't gain other skills, when the government told him he could no longer drive a truck, he was stuck going on disability. He is like a lot of white people in this country- they see themselves not having the affluence their parents had, and getting blamed for stuff they really had no hand in.

The government are not the landlords who don't keep up property or let vacant properties sit while writing depreciation off on their taxes. 15 years ago, I worked in a hood with a church-created CDC and they tried to buy some community eyesores from white owners who lived in the suburbs. In one case an owner was asking for 60,000 dollars for a building that had no roof, all the windows were gone, the inside was rubble and the only thing that could be done to that building was tear it down. We offered to get an appraiser and we would pay the appraised value. He didn't want to do that because he knew that the building would not be appraised at anywhere near 60,000. Over the years I have driven by that area and the eyesore still stands. And that eyesore, owned by a white man in the suburbs is reducing the property value in that community. So fuck Ray.

Ray is a racist, he is being blamed for continuing the problem. This is what many whites don't seem to get.

Most white people who watched the George Floyd tape were upset. They completely agreed with you that what Chauvin did was completely out of line. They even agreed that this was the time for substantial police reform.

But then it got carried too far. The riots dragged on for months. Property was destroyed. Crime rates spiked, partially because the police were overwhelmed, partially because no one wanted to be the next Chauvin. And look how close Trump came to winning a second term, despite all his failures?

And most white people didn't notice that almost 95 percent of the protests had no violence or damage. Many that did, the damage was done by whites. Police were not overwhelmed because they were still shooting and killing unarmed blacks. Trump was soundly defeated.

The question is not what black peoples goals are. The question is when will whites decide to take the responsibility they have to fix the damage created by the continuing racism that some still today are inflicting on communities of color instead of pretending racism doesn't exist now and that they are being blamed for stuff they did not do?

 

[IM2]

Actually, he hit upon the answer to the question I’ve been asking for days now, and to which none of these “blame racism!” leftists will respond:

If racism is why 20% or so are blacks remain in poverty, then how do you explain why 80% or so of blacks are NOT in poverty?”

The leftist upthread inadvertently answered it: because they work hard. So in other words, it’s not racism that is keeping the subset of blacks poor, it’s because they have chosen not to work (or to work hard). While I don’t think that’s it exactly - the real reasons are the babies and lack of schooling - but the underlying message is the same: the blacks making the right choice and doing the same thing move out of poverty.

Bitch, the problem is racism. Joe isn't black, but you don't want to face the truth. Babies and lack of schooling ain't it.

 

[IM2]

Here's some evidence for you, the most heinous crime there is. An eighth of the population commits 55.9% of the murders. Tell me how that won't drop your property values.

"According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races."

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Try not using wikipedia then recognize there are 30 categories of crime and in 2020 whites led in 28. Murder amounted to a small amount of overall crime. Whites committed more rapes than blacks did murder.. The same goes for assault and battery

 

[IM2]

Ah, so more excuses. Red lining is not why stores close down. They close down when theft makes it impossible to create profit. The Walton's don't need banks to open up new stores.

Whites don't determine property value, the banks do. That determination is made based on what people are willing to pay to live in a certain area, and nobody wants to live around blacks; not because of racism, but because of crime, noise, filth, and bad upkeep of property.

Of course you're not a failure. Nobody on your side of the fence is. You just preach about how other people are and are speaking on their behalf. It's like these liberals around here that claim their success but taxes are not high enough for them. It simply makes no sense. Isn't the internet such a wonderful thing? You can pretend to be anybody you want to be.

So now I live in a slum, huh? Tell me, who turned it into a slum? It was one of the top rated suburbs when I moved here 35 years ago. So what happened? We used to have at best one murder every 15 years or so compared to today where it's several a year. Property value increased every year. We were flooded with stores and businesses. Our police were so bored they had nothing better to do than do traffic stops. Our schools were rated one of the best in the county. So what changed?

Whites have fucked up plenty of events? Then why did we always have successful events here years ago with no problems? Can you show me the last sporting event where the white audience created a mob scene? Seems to me when the news reports it, it's always an all black audience just like it is in my city.

Just for fun, I counted the number of times you used the word "race" or "racist" in your reply. Eight times in five short paragraphs. You've been trained well.

Ray, I don't make excuses. While you were driving trucks, I was working in the black community on issues. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Ray, please shut up before you embarrass yourself more.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually, he hit upon the answer to the question I’ve been asking for days now, and to which none of these “blame racism!” leftists will respond:

If racism is why 20% or so are blacks remain in poverty, then how do you explain why 80% or so of blacks are NOT in poverty?”

The leftist upthread inadvertently answered it: because they work hard. So in other words, it’s not racism that is keeping the subset of blacks poor, it’s because they have chosen not to work (or to work hard). While I don’t think that’s it exactly - the real reasons are the babies and lack of schooling - but the underlying message is the same: the blacks making the right choice and doing the same thing move out of poverty.

This kinda reminds me of our discussions about Voter-ID. My adversaries were claiming that a lot of these people had no ability to get an ID, especially those of race. They couldn't afford them, had no way to get to the places that issued ID's, a lot of blacks don''t drive, especially older blacks, just one thing after another.

I told them that if you told any one of these people there is a $1,000 check waiting for them at the other end of the state, and all they had to do is get there and present an acceptable form of ID to claim it, they would be there in less than 24 hours.

Same thing applies here. If you told any one of these people that blame racism for their failures, that we taxpayers will pay them $50,000 to overcome this racism, find a decent job, and stay away from dope, every one of them would be collecting that 50K within six months.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Try not using wikipedia then recognize there are 30 categories of crime and in 2020 whites led in 28. Murder amounted to a small amount of overall crime. Whites committed more rapes than blacks did murder.. The same goes for assault and battery

You continue with your stupid statements. One more time: WHITES ARE FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF YOUR POPULATION. There is no possible way whites would have less in every category simply because of our size differences. Per capita however, blacks lead in the most crime in the US.

Homicide​

According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known.[52] Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.[53][54] The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly eight times higher than that of whites, and their victim rate was similar.

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Eight times higher. So you want to stick with your stupid statement that whites are the biggest offenders?

 

[IM2]

You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed. Zero. I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work. Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them. All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism. Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.

No Ray, I have shown conclusive evidence. You picked stats that validate your bias. You talk about having babies out of wedlock, but passed over this information I presented earlier.

In 2017, Demos published a study titled, “The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.” On page 10 this statement is written:

"The median white single parent has 2.2 times more wealth than the median black two-parent household and 1.9 times more wealth than the median Latino two-parent household."

You talk about incarceration but don't talk about racism in the justice system. And you ignored this bit of information you were shown earlier.

Having a criminal record negatively affects the likelihood of being considered for a job. Devah Pager conducted a matched-pair experiment in which she had male testers apply for the same entry-level jobs advertised in Milwaukee newspapers. She gave the assistants fake credentials that make them equivalent in terms of education, job experience, and so on. Half were Black and half White.

One tester from each pair was instructed to indicate that they had a past non-violent drug possession offense. Pager then collected data on how many of the applicants were called back for an interview after submitting their fake applications.

The results indicate that getting a job with a criminal record is difficult. Having even a non-violent drug offense had a significant impact on rates of callbacks:

What was surprising was that race actually turned out to be more significant than a criminal background. Notice that employers were more likely to call Whites with a criminal record (17% were offered an interview) than Blacks without a criminal record (14%).

Race, Criminal Background, and Employment - Sociological Images

The Society Pages (TSP) is an open-access social science project headquartered in the Department of Sociology at the University of Minnesota

thesocietypages.org

THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS BLACKS FACE IS WHITE RACISM.

 

[IM2]

You continue with your stupid statements. One more time: WHITES ARE FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF YOUR POPULATION. There is no possible way whites would have less in every category simply because of our size differences. Per capita however, blacks lead in the most crime in the US.

Homicide​

According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known.[52] Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.[53][54] The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly eight times higher than that of whites, and their victim rate was similar.

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Eight times higher. So you want to stick with your stupid statement that whites are the biggest offenders?

Ray that is a weak ass excuse. Whites commit more crimes. Fuck per capita, crimes don't happen that way.

The argument coming from the right is that since blacks are 13 percent of the population, blacks should be committing 13 percent of the crime. The problem with this claim is that percentages come attached with real numbers, and when you use those real numbers, the 13 percent excuse has no merit as an argument. In 2020, whites made up 51 percent of all criminal offenders.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report Crime data. In 2020, there were 7,173,072, crime offenders in the United States. That 7.1 million is 100 percent of the offenders in America. In 2020 according to the census, the U.S. population was 331,449,281. That number is 100 percent of the U.S. population. Out of 331,449,281 citizens, 7,173,072 people or 2.16 percent of the American population were criminal offenders. The 3,642,932 white offenders were 1.09 percent of the American population. The 2,122,038 black offenders were 0.006 percent of the American population. This is where the 13 percent excuse fails. Simple math shows the misuse of percentages. The 13 percent excuse uses the percentage of blacks committing a crime against the percentage of the black population instead of it being used to reflect the percentage of blacks committing a specific violation. The numbers here show that 13 percent of the American people are not committing 50 percent of the crime. Furthermore, they show that 1 percent of the population is 51 percent of the criminal offenders and they are not black.

In 2020 blacks led in arrests in 2 categories in the Uniform Crime Report, murder and robbery. I am not going to pretend this is a good thing, but let’s look at the arrest categories whites led in:

Rape, Aggravated assault, Burglary, Larceny-theft, Motor vehicle theft, Arson, Violent crime, Property crime, Other assaults, Forgery and counterfeiting, Fraud, Embezzlement, buying, receiving, and possessing stolen property, Vandalism, carrying, possessing, Weapons, Prostitution and commercialized vice, Sex offenses besides rape and prostitution, Drug abuse violations, Gambling, Offenses against the family and children, Driving under the influence, Liquor laws, Drunkenness, Disorderly conduct, Vagrancy, All other offenses (except traffic), Suspicion, Curfew and loitering law violations.

I used the Official FBI Uniform Crime Report. Now just face the facts and be quiet Ray.