The Russia-Ukraine Conflict Can Only be Settled Through Negotiation

[zaangalewa]

biden needs the easter bunny by his side so he won't get lost

Hmm ... the easter bunny is on the side of Joe Biden? Whooow! What a president.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Suppose all that is true. So if we elect Trump again, Germany and the other nations will no longer ____________________________ ?

It would take a lot of imagination to think Biden is doing a better job than any president prior. Even Carter.

Biden is doing a terrible job except for his leadership in the fight against Russian imperialism, but Trump for president is an absurdity at this point and would be a catastrophe for American interests around the world. Sadly, if the election is between Biden and Trump, Biden, an unprincipled, opportunistic politician, would be the better choice.

 

[SavannahMann]

In 1914 President Wilson believed that a negotiated peace was the best solution to the major war just started in Europe. For the next four years he pursued this, ignoring everything for his vision. A negotiated peace.

The problem then, as now, was that neither side could accept a peace like that. It would require them to stand before their people and admit all the expense, all the costs, the deaths and deprivations were for nothing. No victory was as good as a defeat. Both sides had to win to survive.

Putin can’t stand before the Russian People and say that a Negotiated Peace was acceptable. Not without the Crimean Peninsula. And Land access to the area. Oh and the Donbas region as well.

Any Ukrainian leader who stood before the people and said that they were giving away territory to the thugs in Russia would be torn limb from limb in minutes.

That is one of the reasons that I scoff at the idea of a Negotiated Settlement. Once rounds are fired and people die a negotiated settlement becomes harder to manage. The more people die, the less likely it becomes.

The only solution the Ukrainians will accept is Russia out. Russia can’t accept that. They have too much invested in their Naval Base on the Crimean Peninsula. They must have the Peninsula and a secure land route to it. Not the Bridge.

Those who promote the idea of a Negotiated Peace know all this. That isn’t their goal. Their goal is to weaken the resolve of the world which is supporting Ukraine. They want to cause doubts in the necessity and justification for the side supporting Ukraine.

It is another lie. Another in the endless parade of lies from the Russian side. The problem facing Russia is the propaganda isn’t working. Nothing is.

 

[Silver Cat]

Western Europe is allied to the US.

But they are recipients of safety, not donors. In fact, they are useless parasites.

 

[Silver Cat]

In 1914 President Wilson believed that a negotiated peace was the best solution to the major war just started in Europe. For the next four years he pursued this, ignoring everything for his vision. A negotiated peace.

The problem then, as now, was that neither side could accept a peace like that. It would require them to stand before their people and admit all the expense, all the costs, the deaths and deprivations were for nothing. No victory was as good as a defeat. Both sides had to win to survive.

Putin can’t stand before the Russian People and say that a Negotiated Peace was acceptable. Not without the Crimean Peninsula. And Land access to the area. Oh and the Donbas region as well.

And, sure, not with German tanks near Kiev or Lvov.

Any Ukrainian leader who stood before the people and said that they were giving away territory to the thugs in Russia would be torn limb from limb in minutes.

Actually, more than 70% citizens of Ukraine voted for the Russian-speaking Jew because the idea of equality of rights as well of making peace is more acceptable for them than a war for the right to discriminate and abuse ethnic minorities. The problem is in the aggressive but well-paid (by the EU countries) groups of ultra-nationalists.

That is one of the reasons that I scoff at the idea of a Negotiated Settlement. Once rounds are fired and people die a negotiated settlement becomes harder to manage. The more people die, the less likely it becomes.

The only solution the Ukrainians will accept is Russia out. Russia can’t accept that. They have too much invested in their Naval Base on the Crimean Peninsula. They must have the Peninsula and a secure land route to it. Not the Bridge.

Those who promote the idea of a Negotiated Peace know all this. That isn’t their goal. Their goal is to weaken the resolve of the world which is supporting Ukraine. They want to cause doubts in the necessity and justification for the side supporting Ukraine.

It is another lie. Another in the endless parade of lies from the Russian side. The problem facing Russia is the propaganda isn’t working. Nothing is.

Ok. Lets talk about the problem of resolve. The Russians are ready to escalate to all-out nuclear war (while they prefer to win at the lower level of violence) because there are the Russian people in Ukraine as well because Ukraine is more important for Russian security than Cuba was for American one back in 1962, and, most important,because they can win a nuclear war (by paying a terrible, but definitely acceptable price). The Americans are not ready to escalate the situation for the all-out (or even limited) nuclear war, because right now the USA can't win a nuclear war, because there are no Americans in Ukraine and because there is no difference for the safety of the USA were exactly are the Russian tanks and missiles - in Donetsk, Kiev, Warsaw or Berlin.

So, the Russians can win by simply raising the bets. The only question is the price which will be paid by the Ukrainians, Russians, Europeans and, most importantly - by the Americans.

 

[SavannahMann]

But they are recipients of safety, not donors. In fact, they are useless parasites.

I don’t think that is true. At all. In Desert Storm we had Brits, The French Foreign Legion, and others. We tried to swap field rations with the Legionaries but were shot down. They were keeping the wine they were issued thank you.

We had an exchange NCO with our Infantry from the Brits. He was a Veteran of the Second Paras. He gave us Cherries valuable insight into real combat. And he would know. He was a Veteran of both the Falklands and Northern Ireland.

I know there were others there. But from my personal experience I only met the Legionaries and the Brits.

British armaments are in use in Ukraine. We have learned that their light anti tank missile is just as good as ours while being cheaper and easier to use.

So they have skin in the game. The Germans were transferring some of their Tanks to the Ukrainians.

What more do you need to know?

 

[Silver Cat]

I don’t think that is true. At all. In Desert Storm we had Brits, The French Foreign Legion, and others. We tried to swap field rations with the Legionaries but were shot down. They were keeping the wine they were issued thank you.

We had an exchange NCO with our Infantry from the Brits. He was a Veteran of the Second Paras. He gave us Cherries valuable insight into real combat. And he would know. He was a Veteran of both the Falklands and Northern Ireland.

I know there were others there. But from my personal experience I only met the Legionaries and the Brits.

British armaments are in use in Ukraine. We have learned that their light anti tank missile is just as good as ours while being cheaper and easier to use.

So they have skin in the game. The Germans were transferring some of their Tanks to the Ukrainians.

What more do you need to know?

We have plenty of our own potential infantry men. We don't need the British ones (any amount of them won't give us an opportunity to win a war against Russian and/or China). What we really need - is better industrial capabilities, fleet and nuclear forces.

 

[Ringo]

 

[JohnDB]

You are up early this morning.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That's one of most important rules of a just[ifyable] war. And Russia is not able to win this war she started. So it is not a just war what Russia is doing. Specially when the hightest risk of such a war - which is made from a nuclear power in the beginning of the third millenium - is the extermination of all mankind. Result: The "system Putin" has to die. The best is the Russians will kill this corrupt system on their own - with or without Putin. The world is not able to live with such a threat for everyone else. Russia has to become a reasonable nation and should stop it to be a punching ball of the own warhungry psychopaths. What Putin is doing is not only a war against Europe and the complete Occident - it is also a war against the roots of Russia and the complete Orient. Russia - you are lost! Independent what war Putin will win or lose. A wrong way into a nowhere without roots and future is the wrong way! Change this, Russia! Become reasonable! Leave the Ukraine with all of your soldiers! Start a peace process! Fight for peace - not for war.



Under the green willow,
Lied the wounded Cossack,
Eeeee, oj, yes, under the green,
Lied the wounded Cossack.

There came the bird raven,
He began to crow above the tree,
Aaaj, yes, above him circled the black raven,
He smelled the delicious piece down there.

You shall not crow, black raven,
Over my head,
Eee, oj yes, the black raven,
I'm still alive Cossack.

Fly, black raven, there,
To my father, to my mother's home,
Eee, hand over the bloody cloth
To my wife, young wife

Tell her, Black Raven,
That I have married another,
Eeee, that I found another bride (=death),
In the open field beyond the river

There was a silent wedding,
Under the willow tree,
Eeee, oj yes, silent wedding,
Under the willow tree

There were matchmakers - the sharp saber,
The best man was the steely bayonet
Eee, oj ja, the sharp saber,
The best man was the steely bayonet

Quickly the bullet married us,
And the mother-earth betrothed us,
Eee, oj ja, quick bullet,
Mother-earth has betrothed us

Putin has to die -- to make the world safe for sex, child and drug traffickers

 

[JohnDB]

Putin has to die -- to make the world safe for sex, child and drug traffickers

You are up early this morning.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

yup!

 

[JohnDB]

Is there going to be anyone left to negotiate with?

Putin’s purge of allies shows he came closer to being toppled than anyone realized

Putin’s usefulness to the establishment in Moscow might also run out soon enough. As the Russian saying goes, “It’s you today, me tomorrow.”

thehill.com

 

[zaangalewa]

Putin has to die -- to make the world safe for sex, child and drug traffickers

Russian, a single human being is not able to be so stupid as you play to be. So you should perhaps take more care who are your "friends" - or better to say who are your criminal gang members.



PS.: I said here by the way "the 'system Putin' has to die" - what you know. So why do you need such a lie? For what?

 

[JohnDB]

 

[SavannahMann]

And, sure, not with German tanks near Kiev or Lvov.


Actually, more than 70% citizens of Ukraine voted for the Russian-speaking Jew because the idea of equality of rights as well of making peace is more acceptable for them than a war for the right to discriminate and abuse ethnic minorities. The problem is in the aggressive but well-paid (by the EU countries) groups of ultra-nationalists.


Ok. Lets talk about the problem of resolve. The Russians are ready to escalate to all-out nuclear war (while they prefer to win at the lower level of violence) because there are the Russian people in Ukraine as well because Ukraine is more important for Russian security than Cuba was for American one back in 1962, and, most important,because they can win a nuclear war (by paying a terrible, but definitely acceptable price). The Americans are not ready to escalate the situation for the all-out (or even limited) nuclear war, because right now the USA can't win a nuclear war, because there are no Americans in Ukraine and because there is no difference for the safety of the USA were exactly are the Russian tanks and missiles - in Donetsk, Kiev, Warsaw or Berlin.

So, the Russians can win by simply raising the bets. The only question is the price which will be paid by the Ukrainians, Russians, Europeans and, most importantly - by the Americans.

As for Russian threats of Nuclear War. I’ve said this before. Push the fucking button. I dare you. Before you suggest I am safe from any such threat. I’m danger close to a priority one target. If the blast doesn’t get me the radiation will in a day or two. So I’d be among the first to die. I still say push the button.

No I’m not suicidal. I’m just not afraid. Because missiles will be headed into Russia as well as out of Russia. Not just American either. British and French Missiles will be headed in. Over about a week Mushroom Clouds will keep popping up over Russia as first they are killed and then over killed.

So if that happens I get to stand with a multitude too numerous to count washed white. I am cool with that.

Now, I suppose we must get to Zelensky. The people did like his desire to Negotiate. However, a big thing changed since that time. Can you guess what it is? That’s right. Russia Attacked. Russia Invaded. Russia broke the situation apart.

The Ukrainian people now want Russia to return home, and then they’ll support negotiation.

Poll: two thirds of Ukrainians oppose negotiations with Russia

A new poll has found that 64% of Ukrainians oppose direct talks with Russia before the war ends, while 23.1% are in favor of negotiations.

money.yahoo.com

Russia didn’t want negotiation. They wanted capitulation. They wanted Ukraine to agree to remain in their yard. They wanted Ukraine to remain aligned with the Russians.

Russia Invaded. Again back to the World War One example, the people of America re-elected Wilson because he kept us out of war. Those same people supported going to war after the Zimmerman Telegram was discovered. The event changed the minds of enough people that it would now be considered treasonous to avoid war. Wilson asked Congress for the war declaration, and got it. The war was on. Wilson didn’t want War, but the actions of the Germans had insured there would be a War. The night before Wilson went to Congress to ask for the Declaration of War, he begged his advisors to give him something, anything to avoid this.

Zelensky didn’t want War, and did not invade Russia. They invaded Ukraine. I’d argue it was just and proper to support Ukraine against the much more powerful Bully.

 

[SavannahMann]

We have plenty of our own potential infantry men. We don't need the British ones (any amount of them won't give us an opportunity to win a war against Russian and/or China). What we really need - is better industrial capabilities, fleet and nuclear forces.

British assistance was vital to development of the F-35, especially the one for the Marines, the VSTOL variant. Brits after all made the first truly successful aircraft that could do that, the Harrier. An aircraft we purchased from them because it was way better than anything we had tried.

Brits are not just leeches. They have had a big hand in helping that fleet you mention. For example, if it wasn’t for Three British developments, we would never have had Air Craft Carriers that actually worked. First, it was the British who first developed and perfected the Steam Catapult. The Americans were trying to do the same thing with charges of Gunpowder. Steam was better, more reliable, and didn’t require an explosion under the aircraft to get it going.

The second development was the motion stabilized mirror. This allowed the pilot to see his alignment instead of trying to read the actions of the man holding a couple little paddles.

The third development was the angled flight deck. The British developed that too.

We got those from our allies the British.

And that is only Aircraft Carriers. Would you like to know what else the Brits have assisted us with? The list is a lot longer than you might think.

British SAS teams were the front runners to our own Delta, Seals, SWAT teams, and the list goes on.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

But they are recipients of safety, not donors. In fact, they are useless parasites.

Actually Poland would kick ass in Belarus and south of Petersburg.

Putin will back down if he wishes to live.

 

[JohnDB]

As for Russian threats of Nuclear War. I’ve said this before. Push the fucking button. I dare you. Before you suggest I am safe from any such threat. I’m danger close to a priority one target. If the blast doesn’t get me the radiation will in a day or two. So I’d be among the first to die. I still say push the button

Actually they can't....
The missiles have been cannibalized for parts and new parts stolen....they won't fly. Of the 6,000+ nuclear weapons maybe a couple hundred work or are capable of working. Nowhere near enough to Even think about starting a nuclear exchange.

 

[zaangalewa]

We have plenty of our own potential infantry men. We don't need the British ones (any amount of them won't give us an opportunity to win a war against Russian and/or China). What we really need - is better industrial capabilities, fleet and nuclear forces.

... oder mehr Verstand.