The true living God

[ding]

But your arguments imply that you do know better than God. Are you changing your answer?

Your position doesn’t seem illogical. It is illogical. You do not have complete information and yet you have judged everything as a 99% failure. That’s illogical and incorrect.

Quite a lot can be learned about God from studying the world we live in. So if you are ignorant about God, that’s on you.

I don't know what God knows, he isn't saying, so I have to go on what I see. And from what I see, God hasn't impressed me.

That 99% number comes from kjw47 not me.

I have studied the world, science, history, and theology, in detail, and that is how I have arrived at my points of view.

So you have never made the argument or implied that since life isn’t just or fair there can be no God?

I don’t dispute that you believe you have thought this well through I just dispute the standards you used. I don’t believe they were objective.

Never made that argument. I understand the appeal of Christianity where the meek will inherit the earth. I don't believe it but if that is God's plan it's as good a plan as any.

That’s good. It’s a stupid argument.

I don’t believe you do understand what that means. Being meek is hard work.

I doubt anyone knows God’s plan. The best we can hope for is that everything works for the good of those who love him.

 

[ding]

Contrast? There certainly appears to be an awful lot of contrast for such a sadistic God. Does it seem like you are suffering 99% of the time?

Absolutely not, I have it very, very good. If there really was a God judging us in this life, I'd probably be much worse off.

So life isn’t a suffering?

Everyone suffers but it's all relative. I have a family & friends, good health, live in a great country, and have financial success. I'd say the vast majority of the world suffers way more than I do.

So you don’t believe that everything has to be perfect for God to exist?

No, I get the free will argument. I just think God should be open and logical and his logic apparent to everyone.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

[alang1216]

That is exactly what I think. Man created God in his own image and every creation is unique.

How do you know that something that is more like consciousness didn’t create the material world to experience it? It’s all just information.

I don't. I've said I'm agnostic on the existence of a creator. What I'm sure of is that the God of the OT/NT is a creation of man.

How are you so sure?

logic based on researched information

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

 

[ding]

Interesting. What is it that you imagine I want the world to be?

just

I believe you have that backwards.

I don't think so. I expect no final judgement then an afterlife where the wicked will suffer and the good get rewarded. What do you expect?

You were talking about this world.

I don’t expect this world to be just. You do.

No by a long shot. Do you expect the next world to be just?

That’s good. You won’t be disappointed. We’ll see how you feel when it hits closer to home.

I don’t put much thought into the next world. What good would that do me?

 

[alang1216]

Absolutely not, I have it very, very good. If there really was a God judging us in this life, I'd probably be much worse off.

So life isn’t a suffering?

Everyone suffers but it's all relative. I have a family & friends, good health, live in a great country, and have financial success. I'd say the vast majority of the world suffers way more than I do.

So you don’t believe that everything has to be perfect for God to exist?

No, I get the free will argument. I just think God should be open and logical and his logic apparent to everyone.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Thanks but I think we disagree on how successful God's logic and openness are. Brings me back to the multiple religions paradox.

 

[ding]

How do you know that something that is more like consciousness didn’t create the material world to experience it? It’s all just information.

I don't. I've said I'm agnostic on the existence of a creator. What I'm sure of is that the God of the OT/NT is a creation of man.

How are you so sure?

logic based on researched information

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

What evidence of the supernatural were you expecting to see?

 

[alang1216]

I doubt anyone knows God’s plan.

Yet every religion spells out that plan in great detail.

 

[ding]

So life isn’t a suffering?

Everyone suffers but it's all relative. I have a family & friends, good health, live in a great country, and have financial success. I'd say the vast majority of the world suffers way more than I do.

So you don’t believe that everything has to be perfect for God to exist?

No, I get the free will argument. I just think God should be open and logical and his logic apparent to everyone.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Thanks but I think we disagree on how successful God's logic and openness are. Brings me back to the multiple religions paradox.

We do. I can see how it works. You can’t.

The multiple religions argument is even dumber than the world isn’t just argument.

If anything multiple religions are proof of God’s existence.

 

[ding]

I doubt anyone knows God’s plan.

Yet every religion spells out that plan in great detail.

Then please tell me God’s plan in great detail.

 

[ding]

How do you know that something that is more like consciousness didn’t create the material world to experience it? It’s all just information.

I don't. I've said I'm agnostic on the existence of a creator. What I'm sure of is that the God of the OT/NT is a creation of man.

How are you so sure?

logic based on researched information

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

You said it was based upon logic of researched information? What researched information?

 

[alang1216]

I doubt anyone knows God’s plan.

Yet every religion spells out that plan in great detail.

Then please tell me God’s plan in great detail.

You mean God's plans. Plural. Pick a religion and feel free to Google it.

 

[alang1216]

I don't. I've said I'm agnostic on the existence of a creator. What I'm sure of is that the God of the OT/NT is a creation of man.

How are you so sure?

logic based on researched information

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

You said it was based upon logic of researched information? What researched information?

School, books, lectures, TV, You Tube.

 

[alang1216]

We do. I can see how it works. You can’t.

The multiple religions argument is even dumber than the world isn’t just argument.

If anything multiple religions are proof of God’s existence.

We'll have to agree to disagree on what you see and what you wish you see. How are multiple religions proof of God’s existence?

 

[ding]

How are you so sure?

logic based on researched information

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

You said it was based upon logic of researched information? What researched information?

School, books, lectures, TV, You Tube.

So they claimed that space and time were not created from nothing?

What did they say created space and time?

 

[ding]

We do. I can see how it works. You can’t.

The multiple religions argument is even dumber than the world isn’t just argument.

If anything multiple religions are proof of God’s existence.

We'll have to agree to disagree on what you see and what you wish you see. How are multiple religions proof of God’s existence?

Because it shows worship is hardwired into us.

 

[ding]

I doubt anyone knows God’s plan.

Yet every religion spells out that plan in great detail.

Then please tell me God’s plan in great detail.

You mean God's plans. Plural. Pick a religion and feel free to Google it.

You are the one who made the claim. I’m the one who doesn’t believe it.

Apparently you believe in something without any proof. Prove it.

 

[alang1216]

logic based on researched information

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

You said it was based upon logic of researched information? What researched information?

School, books, lectures, TV, You Tube.

So they claimed that space and time were not created from nothing?

What did they say created space and time?

They say what I say, we don't know.

 

[alang1216]

We do. I can see how it works. You can’t.

The multiple religions argument is even dumber than the world isn’t just argument.

If anything multiple religions are proof of God’s existence.

We'll have to agree to disagree on what you see and what you wish you see. How are multiple religions proof of God’s existence?

Because it shows worship is hardwired into us.

Warfare also appears to be hardwired. Did God hardwire us for both? What does that say about him and his creations?

 

[alang1216]

I doubt anyone knows God’s plan.

Yet every religion spells out that plan in great detail.

Then please tell me God’s plan in great detail.

You mean God's plans. Plural. Pick a religion and feel free to Google it.

You are the one who made the claim. I’m the one who doesn’t believe it.

Apparently you believe in something without any proof. Prove it.

Will of God

 

[ding]

Ok. Explain it to me.

Short form: I see no evidence of the supernatural or see any evidence of any divine intervention. Everything in this world can be explained by natural forces.

You said it was based upon logic of researched information? What researched information?

School, books, lectures, TV, You Tube.

So they claimed that space and time were not created from nothing?

What did they say created space and time?

They say what I say, we don't know.

That’s the heart of the debate. You claim you don’t know and claim you do know. Which is it?