The Truth about Mormons

[Liability]

My bad. Smith DID return the Golden PLATES to the Angel Moroni. Of course. Too bad that this means nobody else can now verify the underlying record of Mormonism. Oh well. I guess Angels need gold, too.

As for Mormons eating their traveling companions, I might have to go back and re-read the old histories of the Donner Party.

There were 12 witnesses for the plates. Much like there were Twelve witnesses to the Resurrection of Christ. And the Holy Spirit can tell us the truth of all things. I have no doubt that Moroni shows the plates to whomever the Lord wants Him to.

As for the Donner party. I thought they were heading for California. I could be wrong though its been a while since i read up on that.

12 witnesses? Oh, well. That makes it all credible, then. For there couldn't possibly be any group of 12 folks who have agreed to a fraud.

And I believe the Donner Party was heading to California.

Why that matters, I have no idea.

 

[Avatar4321]

12 witnesses? Oh, well. That makes it all credible, then. For there couldn't possibly be any group of 12 folks who have agreed to a fraud.

It's not the fact that there are witnesses that makes it credible. Though it does burn the argument that no one else saw anything. And it does follow the law of witnesses described in the scriptures.

No, what makes it credible is the lives of the actual witnesses.

How many people who know they are part of a fraud are willing to die for it? How many people, after being excommunicated and having a major falling out with the leader of the presumed fraud, will continue to affirm their testimonies that they saw the plates and the Angel till the day they die rather than denounce it?

How many people who know they took part in a fraud will later return after being excommunicated, and submit themselves before the people to be rebaptized despite knowing they will have no position of authority as they once had?

How many people will give up their fortunes to knowingly take part in a fraud with provides no monetary benefit for them?

It's extremely odd behavior if 12 people were in on a conspiracy.

 

[Intense]

My bad. Smith DID return the Golden PLATES to the Angel Moroni. Of course. Too bad that this means nobody else can now verify the underlying record of Mormonism. Oh well. I guess Angels need gold, too.

As for Mormons eating their traveling companions, I might have to go back and re-read the old histories of the Donner Party.

There were 12 witnesses for the plates. Much like there were Twelve witnesses to the Resurrection of Christ. And the Holy Spirit can tell us the truth of all things. I have no doubt that Moroni shows the plates to whomever the Lord wants Him to.

As for the Donner party. I thought they were heading for California. I could be wrong though its been a while since i read up on that.

12 witnesses? Oh, well. That makes it all credible, then. For there couldn't possibly be any group of 12 folks who have agreed to a fraud.

And I believe the Donner Party was heading to California.

Why that matters, I have no idea.

I believe Donner Pass is up by Reno and Susanville.

 

[chanel]

Holy moly - 163 pages! Interesting stuff.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Heck, the loonies here have half of America in on taking down the 9-11 towers.

Nazis died for their beliefs.

9-11 highjackers died for their beliefs.

Smith died for his beliefs.

Go back and see if any of the witnesses admitted to actually seeing the tablets with their own eyes.

Also give the famly relationships of the twelve witnesses.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Booga-booga

 

[California Girl]

Is this a GREAT thread or WHAT?

I agree. It's an awesome thread. I particularly like that the Mormons among us treat people respectfully, even when those people don't deserve it.

 

[Intense]

Even Huggy!!!

 

[chanel]

That's so true intense, but as a half practicing Catholic, my agnostic half tells me not to be so kind to such a loser. Too bad I'm not as loving as the Mormons.


Great thread BTW.

 

[RadiomanATL]

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree. It's an awesome thread. I particularly like that the Mormons among us treat people respectfully, even when those people don't deserve it.

It's not easy. and I will free admit I am far less than perfect. I am not perfectly patient and kind. But there is one quote I read from Joseph Smith when i was a teenager that stuck with me very strongly. It's this one:

The Saints can testify whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a ‘Mormon,’ I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves.

“It is a love of liberty which inspires my soul—civil and religious liberty to the whole of the human race. Love of liberty was diffused into my soul by my grandfathers while they dandled me on their knees. …

“If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way. Living with Others in Peace and Harmony

 

[Avatar4321]

For some reason, I dont think that's accurate. Maybe its all the kids in all the mormon families i know. Just because someone is a slut, doesnt mean they arent good in bed with their spouse.

 

[Si modo]

I didn't know you were Mormon, Avatar.

And, I do believe the Donner party was going to California.

I hear the Donners have the original patent on Soylent Green.

 

[Intense]

I didn't know you were Mormon, Avatar.

And, I do believe the Donner party was going to California.

I hear the Donners have the original patent on Soylent Green.

Wagon's East was John Candy's last Movie, He died while making it. It is worth seeing and a good laugh.


[edit] Party formation
The nucleus of the party consisted of the families of George Donner, his brother Jacob, and James F. Reed of Springfield, Illinois, plus their hired hands, about 33 people in all, with nine covered wagons. They set out for California in mid-April 1846, arrived at Independence, Missouri, on May 10, 1846, and left two days later.[1]

On May 19, 1846, the Donners and Reeds joined a large wagon train captained by William H. Russell. Most of those who became members of the Donner Party were also in this group. For the next two months the travelers followed the California Trail until they reached the Little Sandy River, in what is now Wyoming, where they camped alongside several other overland parties. There, those emigrants who had decided to take a new route ("Hastings Cutoff," named after its promoter, Lansford Hastings), formed a new wagon train. They elected George Donner their captain, creating the Donner Party, on July 19.[1] At its height, it numbered 87 emigrants with 23 wagons.[2]

The Donner Party continued westward to Fort Bridger, where Hastings Cutoff began, and set out on the new route on August 31. They endured great hardships while crossing the Wasatch Mountains and the Great Salt Lake Desert, finally rejoining the California Trail near modern Elko, Nevada, on September 26. The "shortcut" had taken them over three weeks longer than had they used the customary route. They met further setbacks and delays while traveling along Nevada's Humboldt River.[1]

[edit] Snow at Donner Pass
When they reached the Sierra Nevada at the end of October, a snowstorm blocked their way over what is now known as Donner Pass. Demoralized and low on supplies, about three quarters of the emigrants camped at a lake (now called Donner Lake), while the Donner families and a few others camped about six miles (ten kilometers) away, in the Alder Creek Valley.[1]

The emigrants slaughtered their remaining oxen, but there was not enough meat to feed so many for long. In mid-December, fifteen of the trapped emigrants, later known as the Forlorn Hope, made snowshoes and set out for Sutter's Fort, about 100 miles (160 kilometers) away. This group consisted of 10 men and five women. When one man gave out and had to be left behind, the others continued, but soon became lost and ran out of food. Caught without shelter in a raging blizzard, four of the party died. The survivors resorted to cannibalism, then continued on their journey; three more died and were also cannibalized. Close to death, the seven surviving snowshoers—two men, and all five of the women—finally reached safety on the western side of the mountains on January 18, 1847.[1]

[edit] Legacy
Donner Memorial State Park, near the town of Truckee, California, at the eastern end of Donner Lake, commemorates the disaster; the area where the Donner families camped at Alder Creek has been designated a National Historic Landmark.
Several places in western states take their names from the Donner Party: Donner Hill, Donner-Reed Pass, and Donner Spring in Utah; Donner Springs in Nevada; and Donner Lake, Pass, Peak, and Summit in California.
The route the Donner Party blazed into the Salt Lake Valley via Emigration Canyon was used the following year by the vanguard company of Mormon pioneers. The section from Fort Bridger to the valley became part of the Mormon Trail and remained the main route to Salt Lake City into the 1860s.
The memory of the Donner disaster prompted Californians to fund relief teams during the gold rush. They sent men eastward along the trails to take food and water to overland emigrants, saving many lives.[3]


Donner Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Liability]

Is this a GREAT thread or WHAT?

I agree. It's an awesome thread. I particularly like that the Mormons among us treat people respectfully, even when those people don't deserve it.

I don't deserve to be treated with respect?

Oh wait.

As a general rule, that's probably true.

Nevermind.

Could be worse.

I could be the smuggly bastige whining about this great thread.

 

[Liability]

12 witnesses? Oh, well. That makes it all credible, then. For there couldn't possibly be any group of 12 folks who have agreed to a fraud.

It's not the fact that there are witnesses that makes it credible. Though it does burn the argument that no one else saw anything. And it does follow the law of witnesses described in the scriptures.

No, what makes it credible is the lives of the actual witnesses.

How many people who know they are part of a fraud are willing to die for it? How many people, after being excommunicated and having a major falling out with the leader of the presumed fraud, will continue to affirm their testimonies that they saw the plates and the Angel till the day they die rather than denounce it?

How many people who know they took part in a fraud will later return after being excommunicated, and submit themselves before the people to be rebaptized despite knowing they will have no position of authority as they once had?

How many people will give up their fortunes to knowingly take part in a fraud with provides no monetary benefit for them?

It's extremely odd behavior if 12 people were in on a conspiracy.

Well, I can tell my tweaking has become offensive.

I like tweaking. But except for Islam, I don't like to be unnecessarily offensive about anyone's religion.

So, I apologize.

I do, however, wish to keep bumping this thread.

It is a great thread.

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, I can tell my tweaking has become offensive.

I like tweaking. But except for Islam, I don't like to be unnecessarily offensive about anyone's religion.

So, I apologize.

I do, however, wish to keep bumping this thread.

It is a great thread.

I wasnt offended at all. Quite the opposite. nice to have discussions with respectful people.

 

[Si modo]

Is this a GREAT thread or WHAT?

I agree. It's an awesome thread. I particularly like that the Mormons among us treat people respectfully, even when those people don't deserve it.

I don't deserve to be treated with respect?

Oh wait.

As a general rule, that's probably true.

Nevermind.

Could be worse.

I could be the smuggly bastige whining about this great thread.

Oh, I doubt Cali-G meant that YOU were being disrespectful.

But it is a great thread.

 

[eagleseven]

I generally like Mormons, though I personally find their sacred text to be about as probable as the Bible. Still, great people overall.

 

[chanel]