The Truth about Mormons

[chloe]

Judaism has quite a bit of guidance concerning prophets.

Do they have Prophets nowadays?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yep.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Chloe: The bible or scripture cautions us about validating alleged "truth" based on the senses...i.e. "I saw God!".

I have posted two times, a very strong rebuttle to J.S. Jr.'s being a spokesman for God's truth, right from Paul's N.T. book, Romans.

"FAITH COMETH BY HEARING, AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD."

I.E. Chloe: Even in Paul's time, there were Joseph Smith types who claimed to have the "truth", and claimed to have experienced supernatural phenomena that they "of course" attributed to God. Many were sadly misled, yet they had been cautioned/warned. Manmade religions say that they "esteem" God, but it's basically a secondary prioriy to doing what they esteem the most. That is working hard to "please" God. "Pleasing" God can be a precarious path, as it often leads to something called "works" or "legalism". Basically this is a means in which man tries/attempts to assuage his guilt ridden soul by doing "goodie two shoes" attempts towards humanity or the world to gain "brownie points" with his/her maker. It may take the form of rabid participation in saving the whales, the Death Valley Pupfish, the Manatee......etc... It may involve pushing for all kinds of welfare reforms even to the absurd. Man is born with a conscience that validates God's truthful premise that we are a most sinful people. The greatest sin, is the pride in "self", and the "I'll do it my way." type of pride that rebells against giving-up, giving-in, surrendering, serving, self-sacrificing, etc.... This is all foreign to the natural born human mind.

So these great religions pop up that claim to be the fix-it-all of mainstream biblical Christianity. They proceed to point out alleged flaws, and discrepancies in biblical Christianity, and of course have their answer to the problem. Wa La! We create Latter Day Prophets......Joseph Smith Jr. conveniently comes on the scene. Although God tolerated polygamy in the O.T., it definetly ended during the N.T. as "ok". Not with J.S. Jr.'s new reformed Christianity. J.S. Jr. had many wives, and many were very young.........His co-patriot, Brigham Young also had many wives too. Interestingly, it's novel how cults often seem to go the multiple wife route. Why not, that male human drive to pro-create is fed to the limit in J.S. Jr's religion.

There is a natural tendency in humanity to try and work out guilt, or pay back to others when receiving a gift. Gifts are not rewards, but are given without having to earn them. This biblical salvation. A gift, via Christs sacrifice, not ours. He did it in our "stead". Yet, the man inspired religions of the world can't comprehend a "free" gift, but must "earn" it via works........."Be a good Mormon, or Moonie, or Scientologist", and you will have rewards..... God is good, Christ is good, we receive God's goodness, and it's done. Our part is belief, or faith. That is an act of our human wills. The enemy of our wills and souls will do everything possible to disuade you and I from believing. They will make prerequisites to it. You must do this or that. You must get baptised first. You must learn a catechism first, you must say this chant or this prayer......or do so many deeds. God doesn't need deeds. He wants us............our lives, our love, our intimacy, and belief in Him as our all in all. Giving Up: That at the core. We fight the good life of earthly living, but sooner or later we get exhausted.........That's when it's time to finally let God to what we can't do. That's cope with life hand in hand with Him. Let Him be the pilot. We don't even occupy the co-pilot seat. We need to take a passenger's seat, and just trust that the plane/our life is in good hands.

Throughout the bible, and especially the N.T., Christians are cautioned to "beware!" of the wiles and deceptions of the enemy of God's children and the human race in total; namely Lucifer/Satan. He was one of the most powerful and beautiful creatures in heaven. There is even evidence in the scripture that Lucifer might have been a Seraphim, or one of the majestic/powerful multi-winged creatures that stood before God's throne in heaven, before he/Satan was cast out with 1/3 or the heavenly host/angels who also abided in Satan and not in God. These beautiful creatures apparently had free-will, not unlike humanity, yet they were eye witnesses to God's very beauty, and character, and still rebelled, as they wanted to be "Like God" Himself, and not humbly serve Him in gratitude and awe.

So Joseph Smith Jr. has this vision and says he saw an angel who identified itself as "Moroni". Ok, thats possible, but remember that 1/3 of the angels created by God rebelled in eternity past, and are now renamed "demons", though they are still angels. They have a Commander and Chief named Lucifer, who is not omnipresent, but has myriads of demons to work on the souls of humanity across this terrestrial ball called "earth". Lucifer in a sense is self-deluded, as he still assumes that he can "win" in essence this mighty, battle with God in heavenly/spiritual realms unseen by the eyes of mere earthly man.

Jesus Himself told His disciples that He saw Lucifer fall from the heavens to earth with his army of wicked-minded angels. They now go about the earth tempting mankind in ways to attempt to thwart God's Holy Spirit, which is also tugging at the heart/consciences of mankind.

How Do They Do This?:

False miracles, not from God. False visions, not from God.
False prophets and prophetesses, not from God.

How can we be sure what messages are right and from God, and what are from the literal "pit" of evil or Satan's authorship?

Paul had a very simple and effective play. He told the current believers/Christians of his day to do as the Bereans do. What did the Berean believers do? Well, whenever a person came to Berea or to their church or gatherings in Berea and claimed to be speaking words from God, or performing miracles in the name of God, he/Paul said that the Bereans immediately fleed to their scripture of God to validate or verify these messages and messengers.

As I quoted that Romans verse above, we Christians are supposed to bring all "things" of question or of supposed God inspiriation to the scriptures, bar none! God's scripture will not fail to enlighten, and keep us safe from being misled, and or disceived.

Our faith is non based on miracles, visions, dreams, voices in our head, but on scriptural truth that reveals the true nature of God, and His gospel of reconciliation with the human race through the redemptive work of His incarnate Son, Jesus Christ.

In every case, the best way to test if a religion is Christian to the core, is test it's material, or doctrine in the area of how they deal with Jesus. Is He, non created by has always been, and is and always will be......I.E. "The same yesterday, today, and forever." "The Alpha and Omega." "The I AM", who existed before the prophets, before time, before creation, for eternity past, present, and future.

The Mormon doctrine of Jesus Christ cannot fullfill that descriptiron of their "jesus". Their Journal of Discourses, and Book of Mormon cannot.

When a Mormon missionary comes to your door and asks if you will pray and ask God to tell you if Mormonism is the "truth", they are breaking the cardinal rule that Paul the Apostle of Jesus Christ set down in Romans. "FAITH COMETH BY HEARING, AND HEARING BY THE WORD(scriptures/bible) OF GOD."

People that laugh at the fact that God in His omnipotence can and has protected His Word/scripture throughout the ages are saying that God is basically week, and can't control that which He created.

Who can follow a god, that let's his word or alleged truths become corrupted as the Mormons claim the present day bible is?

The bible succinctly says that God holds the stars and the sun, and earth and all things in suspension according to His might strength and wisdom. In the N.T. book of Collosians, Paul clearly said that all things were created in and through Jesus Christ Himself. God the Father is Spirit, Jesu Christ God's Son is God in the flesh/incarnate so that man would and could glimpse and understand the true nature of God, and the Holy Spirit is our counselor that indwells Christians/believers and enables, directs, and protects us, and is God's lasting seal on our souls that we are His for eternity.

Mormonism is a manmade counterfeit. It's jesus is a skewed strange jesus that if you read the many sermons of Brigham Young, and check out the Journal of Discourses, you will find a most strange belief system.

Throughout it's inception, Mormonism has had to adapt, and change many of their doctrinal stances, as they went against common biblical, ethical rules of culture, and human life. They had to withdraw their Polygamous doctrine, their ban on Negroid/African decent human beings being allowed into their priesthoods.......etc..

The most revolting counterfeit is their Melkisidek(Mispelled but phonetically correct) priesthood. This Priest is indeed listed in Genesis, and was the priest that met and blessed Abraham after his battles. Abraham gave this priest a tenth of his spoils/riches from his battles as a than offering or worshipful offering to God. Melkisidek is clearly stated to have no geneology in the bible, and many notable bible scholars believe Him to have been the pre-incarnate Christ. There is no more mention of Melkisidek accept, I believe in the book of Hebrews by Paul.

The LDS church has used this priest's name and bestowed this priesthood on many of their most obedient members. This is pure blasphemy! We are not God nor are we little gods. We are created, we have a geneology, and we are not a type of Christ.

Paul said that every Christian, or every believer/elect is a priest, in the principle that we have access to the Most High/God, through the Spirit of Jesus/Holy Spirit. How do we have access? Christ said, "It is finished!" on the cross. He died, and the Holy veil in the Jerusalem temple that guarded the Holy of Holies place from all of humanity except the Levitical Priest who once a year could enter the veil, was torn in two or asunder! This was Gods direct intervention, telling mankind that Jesus had made entrance to the Holy of Holies accessible to all of mankind through His sacrifice of His life, and blood. So all who would believe by faith on Jesus's work would also enter in to the Holy of Holies, or have access to an intimate relationship with God. Our sin stained souls were no longer a road block to access to our Creator. Jesus took those sin-stains, and suffered God's eternal punishment for them all.

Our Part: Just accept, believe, surrender, commit, and live-on in faith that God has taken care of it all.

Our earthly lives may not be any different that the family next door, or may be even worse, but, we are secure, and have received an "eternity" of life that does not end at death. We only give up our old battered earth suit, and live on in with our God in heaven. No more tears, no more regrets, no more repentance, no more sin........

We will be clothed in garments of such brightness and purity that our earthly eyes can't comprehend!

J.S. offers you a planet of your own to pro-create another human race not to different from the 77 virgins for Islamic martyrs. It is all man based/created incentives, lacking grace, humility, humbleness, and the joy of true salvation with the utmost of security.

As God said in the book of Job "Who is this that darkeneth my counsel by words without knowledge."
I have never seen a wordier explanation of nothing. Did you not read the posts previously that I have explained. apparently you are conceding or "surrendering" your previous arguments and also surrendered the clear fulfilled prophecy of Joseph Smith. You set it aside as though it were nothing.
So you are saying then that all visions and voices and divine phenomena that happen to people in not biblical times is of the devil. Of course, it is, because it destroys your little dogma and shows you that you need to do something and not just hear something to be worth something in this life.
You fit exactly what Joseph heard from the voice of God describing other preachers in his day which he described "They draw near unto me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." Does that sound like a god who wants lipservice without action, like the bible says, faith without works is dead.

You are a fraud. Joseph was a prophet of God. Jesus is the Christ and wants all of us to return to live with him so he can teach us to be like him in the eternities. That is something to be excited about.
Just go your separate way and stop kicking against the pricks.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You know......the really interesting thing is, that those who claim to hear God, are generally not real open to hearing other viewpoints. Now, if God is everything, then that would mean that beliefs I don't necessarily carry that others have should be accorded the same respect that I would want mine. The only exception for that is when I figure out something isn't a true religion, then I attack it.

But.....there are many places where God has told us that we've got to have an open mind, which means a "one way only" attitude has gotta ease up.

Everyone should do their own research and stand up for what they believe. If you come to a different conclusion than I, more power to you. I am convinced, you are convinced but only one is right. So I am happy to go on discussing it forever and perhaps one day on the other side we can talk more about it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Joseph Smith NEVER to my knowledge claimed to have SEEN God. He was visited by Angels of God.

You will have to point me DIRECTLY to verifiable source that claims he saw God. That is NOT a claim made by any missionary I have ever had a conversation with, nor with anyone in the church.

As a Prophet God would have talked to him possibly directly. That is NOT the same as God appearing before a mortal man.

From Joseph Smith history, in our Pearl of Great Price Joseph Said, "I saw a pillar of light, exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, descending gradually. When the light rested upon me I saw two personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me calling me by name and said, pointing to the other, "This is my Beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased, Hear Him!" ..........I had seen a vision, I knew it, and I knew that God knew it and no power on earth or hell could make me deny it."

 

[ABikerSailor]

Everyone should do their own research and stand up for what they believe. If you come to a different conclusion than I, more power to you. I am convinced, you are convinced but only one is right. So I am happy to go on discussing it forever and perhaps one day on the other side we can talk more about it.

Dude......you couldn't have printed a more ignorant post when you said "but only one is right".

Does this mean that the spiritual connection that His Holiness the Dali Lama is any less than that of the Pope? How about the Rabbis? Is there just one of those theologies that is right, or, are they all wrong, because according to you, there can be only one "right one". I personally have listened to, and read, the things that the Dali Lama puts down. I've also listened to the Pope. John Paul was one of the better men I've known (and yes, I went to Rome to see him). I also know several Orthodox Rabbis, as well as a few Torah Scholars.

None of them (with the exception of the Pope), has said that they've got the only one true way.

Fanaticism like that is another tell of a false religion.

 

[Truthspeaker]

my attention span isn't that long, if you shorten it down I might get it better. , basically if faith comes by hearing it, then who decides who hears it or who is the Prophet? why isn't it allowed for just anyone to be a Prophet nowadays or not allowed to believe someone got word from God about something if people accepted it in the old bible days? Why would God just stop giving commandments? I hope you can explain that to me. thanks.

he even said in his novel, that faith cometh by hearing the word. Then he inserted his own interpretation saying(bible/scriptures) handcuffing God and saying he can't talk to anyone in any other way. Who is he to say that? Is he a Prophet? He can't even stay consistent with what he is trying to say. He says god doesn't speak to prophets anymore but says that jesus is the same, yesterday, today and forever. Go figure. Your question is valid. Why would he just stop! He wouldn't. The Bible is clearly not in it's purest form and is merely a tool for us to use to gain spirtual enlightenment. Not the only tool. Prayer is a tool, visions are a tool, the Holy Ghost is the biggest tool. He is taking so much time to fight this because his faith has been rocked and he is struggling for air. If he only knew that he doesn't have to.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yep.

Who in Judaism claims to be a prophet?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Who in Judaism claims to be a prophet?

Dude.....ya may wanna brush up on your OT. Moses for one. Abraham for another. Elijah. How many more you want me to name?

As far as modern day prophets? Well.....if you were to study under a rabbi for a while, you would be able to start spotting them yourself.

Only Jews and B'neh Noach can become prophets. Ya gotta be a tzadik before you can become a prophet.

Check out the Universal Torah Network on the web.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Dude......you couldn't have printed a more ignorant post when you said "but only one is right".

Does this mean that the spiritual connection that His Holiness the Dali Lama is any less than that of the Pope? How about the Rabbis? Is there just one of those theologies that is right, or, are they all wrong, because according to you, there can be only one "right one". I personally have listened to, and read, the things that the Dali Lama puts down. I've also listened to the Pope. John Paul was one of the better men I've known (and yes, I went to Rome to see him). I also know several Orthodox Rabbis, as well as a few Torah Scholars.

None of them (with the exception of the Pope), has said that they've got the only one true way.

Fanaticism like that is another tell of a false religion.

I think it is pretty reasonable to assume there is one truth. Like the bible says, One Lord, One faith, One baptism.
Of course all religions have some true teachings in them, mixed in with false teachings. The Book of Mormon states, he that is ignorant is blameless, and his sins shall be answered upon the head of another.
People who err not knowing any better are in good standing with the Lord, most of the time. That is why there is so much work to do in the afterlife. There is so much more to it than this life. Yes we claim to have all true teachings but unlike others who claim they have the whole truth, we don't exalt ourselves by saying we are the only ones going to heaven. There are going to be a lot of us actually who miss out, according to our teaching because some are slothful in their duties and chose willingly to disobey the commandments of God because they love the things of the world more.

Take a second to ponder that. It is a pretty benevolent teaching and shows how God can let bad things happen and still be merciful at the last day. Nobody else teaches anything like it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Dude.....ya may wanna brush up on your OT. Moses for one. Abraham for another. Elijah. How many more you want me to name?

As far as modern day prophets? Well.....if you were to study under a rabbi for a while, you would be able to start spotting them yourself.

Only Jews and B'neh Noach can become prophets. Ya gotta be a tzadik before you can become a prophet.

Check out the Universal Torah Network on the web.

Are you kidding me She asked if there are any modern day Jewish Prophets and you said "Yep" and so I asked who. Then you answer with OT Prophets. Are you crazy?

Seriously I am sorry if I sound insulting but you need to keep up with the conversation......dude.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Are you kidding me She asked if there are any modern day Jewish Prophets and you said "Yep" and so I asked who. Then you answer with OT Prophets. Are you crazy?

Seriously I am sorry if I sound insulting but you need to keep up with the conversation......dude.

Yo dipstick......did you bother to read the second sentence of my post, or did you just zip right over it like you do with truth?

I said......study under a Rabbi, and you'll be able to spot them yourself. And, the reason I said it that way, is even if the rabbi knows who one is, he's not gonna tell you. He's bound NOT to, as they aren't recognized as prophets until they are tested by the leaders of the Jewish faith.

Are you really that dense?

 

[chloe]

Chloe

Throughout the bible, and especially the N.T., Christians are cautioned to "beware!" of the wiles and deceptions of the enemy of God's children and the human race in total; namely Lucifer/Satan. He was one of the most powerful and beautiful creatures in heaven. There is even evidence in the scripture that Lucifer might have been a Seraphim, or one of the majestic/powerful multi-winged creatures that stood before God's throne in heaven, before he/Satan was cast out with 1/3 or the heavenly host/angels who also abided in Satan and not in God. These beautiful creatures apparently had free-will, not unlike humanity, yet they were eye witnesses to God's very beauty, and character, and still rebelled, as they wanted to be "Like God" Himself, and not humbly serve Him in gratitude and awe.

Jesus Himself told His disciples that He saw Lucifer fall from the heavens to earth with his army of wicked-minded angels. They now go about the earth tempting mankind in ways to attempt to thwart God's Holy Spirit, which is also tugging at the heart/consciences of mankind.

How Do They Do This?:

False miracles, not from God. False visions, not from God.
False prophets and prophetesses, not from God.

How can we be sure what messages are right and from God, and what are from the literal "pit" of evil or Satan's authorship?

Paul had a very simple and effective play. He told the current believers/Christians of his day to do as the Bereans do. What did the Berean believers do? Well, whenever a person came to Berea or to their church or gatherings in Berea and claimed to be speaking words from God, or performing miracles in the name of God, he/Paul said that the Bereans immediately fleed to their scripture of God to validate or verify these messages and messengers.

As I quoted that Romans verse above, we Christians are supposed to bring all "things" of question or of supposed God inspiriation to the scriptures, bar none! God's scripture will not fail to enlighten, and keep us safe from being misled, and or disceived.

Our faith is non based on miracles, visions, dreams, voices in our head, but on scriptural truth that reveals the true nature of God, and His gospel of reconciliation with the human race through the redemptive work of His incarnate Son, Jesus Christ.

Paul said that every Christian, or every believer/elect is a priest, in the principle that we have access to the Most High/God, through the Spirit of Jesus/Holy Spirit. How do we have access? Christ said, "It is finished!" on the cross. He died, and the Holy veil in the Jerusalem temple that guarded the Holy of Holies place from all of humanity except the Levitical Priest who once a year could enter the veil, was torn in two or asunder! This was Gods direct intervention, telling mankind that Jesus had made entrance to the Holy of Holies accessible to all of mankind through His sacrifice of His life, and blood. So all who would believe by faith on Jesus's work would also enter in to the Holy of Holies, or have access to an intimate relationship with God. Our sin stained souls were no longer a road block to access to our Creator. Jesus took those sin-stains, and suffered God's eternal punishment for them all.

Our Part: Just accept, believe, surrender, commit, and live-on in faith that God has taken care of it all.

Our earthly lives may not be any different that the family next door, or may be even worse, but, we are secure, and have received an "eternity" of life that does not end at death. We only give up our old battered earth suit, and live on in with our God in heaven. No more tears, no more regrets, no more repentance, no more sin........

We will be clothed in garments of such brightness and purity that our earthly eyes can't comprehend!

before there was jesus though people still got messages from God so how come they don't anymore? Don't get angry but really I honestly don't understand the "concept" of when people say jesus died for our sins. I don't get what that means? I think about people being responsible and accountable to pay there own bills and provide for themselves and own there own problems, so i have a really hard time comprehending when people say he died for our sins, It just dones't make any sense to me. im not being saracastic either so please don't take it that way.

 

[chloe]

Dude.....ya may wanna brush up on your OT. Moses for one. Abraham for another. Elijah. How many more you want me to name?

As far as modern day prophets? Well.....if you were to study under a rabbi for a while, you would be able to start spotting them yourself.

Only Jews and B'neh Noach can become prophets. Ya gotta be a tzadik before you can become a prophet.

Check out the Universal Torah Network on the web.

I don't know anything at all about what jewish people think, the ancestors on my moms side were jewish i guess but nobody ever talked about it, and nobody in my family is any religion currently.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yo dipstick......did you bother to read the second sentence of my post, or did you just zip right over it like you do with truth?

I said......study under a Rabbi, and you'll be able to spot them yourself. And, the reason I said it that way, is even if the rabbi knows who one is, he's not gonna tell you. He's bound NOT to, as they aren't recognized as prophets until they are tested by the leaders of the Jewish faith.

Are you really that dense?

Cmon dude, Why would you mention old testament prophets? It makes no sense regarding her question and act as though I had never heard of them. Truly you make a dizzying argument.

 

[Truthspeaker]

before there was jesus though people still got messages from God so how come they don't anymore? Don't get angry but really I honestly don't understand the "concept" of when people say jesus died for our sins. I don't get what that means? I think about people being responsible and accountable to pay there own bills and provide for themselves and own there own problems, so i have a really hard time comprehending when people say he died for our sins, It just dones't make any sense to me. im not being saracastic either so please don't take it that way.

It is very difficult really to understand the atonement. There are many conflicting views of how Christ paid for our sins. Here is our explanation.

First you must understand that God knows everything past present and future. That being said, God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They were in an innocent state without desires to do good or evil. Although everything around them was paradise, they could not fully appreciate it because they had never experienced pain or suffering. In order to experience pain or suffering they would have to transgress and be kicked out of the garden, thus being subject to earthly life with it's temptations and adversity.


God actually wanted them to experience the good and the evil and knew that they would be deceived by Lucifer and eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. At that moment, Satan was allowed to tempt and try them. This is necessary for our long term happiness because you never know to appreciate the good and prosperity without experiencing the bad and suffering.

Since this environment will throw so many temptations at us, we will eventually choose to sin, which is knowingly do something wrong. Since we then all become spiritually filthy when we sin, we would thus never be allowed to go back to the prescence of God because he said, no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven.

Since God wants us all to come back and live with him, and we are not able to undo the wrongs we have done, there had to be a Saviour who would come and live the same life and endure all the same temptations we would. But he had to be perfect and resist them all and be sinless, otherwise he could not plead our case and pay the debt we were unable to pay.

He paid the price while in the Garden of Gethsemane, when he said"The hour is come". during that hour, all the pains of hell and earth were unleashed on him. Every physical, mental and emotional and spiritual pain imaginable inflicted itself on Him. It would have killed anyone else but because he was perfect and the Son of God, he could endure it, even though he "bled from every pore." as Luke describes. Once he had suffered this, he can now relate with all of our sufferings, so we can feel he understands us and come to know him and believe in Him. The crucifixion was mere child's play compared to the Garden Suffering.

Do you understand now how he can be an intercessor for us? it's kind of like we are the fannie and freddie's of the world and he is the spiritual bailout plan.

 

[chloe]

It is very difficult really to understand the atonement. There are many conflicting views of how Christ paid for our sins. Here is our explanation.

First you must understand that God knows everything past present and future. That being said, God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They were in an innocent state without desires to do good or evil. Although everything around them was paradise, they could not fully appreciate it because they had never experienced pain or suffering. In order to experience pain or suffering they would have to transgress and be kicked out of the garden, thus being subject to earthly life with it's temptations and adversity.


God actually wanted them to experience the good and the evil and knew that they would be deceived by Lucifer and eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. At that moment, Satan was allowed to tempt and try them. This is necessary for our long term happiness because you never know to appreciate the good and prosperity without experiencing the bad and suffering.

Do you understand now how he can be an intercessor for us? it's kind of like we are the fannie and freddie's of the world and he is the spiritual bailout plan.

No I don't understand it, It is like your saying God is a socialist. It does not make sense to me sorry. The way it reads to me is like God made two people then decided they should experience life but instead of trying to warn them to watch out for cars , look both ways before you cross the street he just sent them into the middle of traffic, and let them get hit or get across the street if they were able to. w00t? No thanks ! Why would that be? it doesnt make sense. Also I am Against the "bank bailout" why should I have to support all the losers who went into debt knowingly when I didnt? So its hard for me to get it. Now if you go to debt counciling and pay your own bills off and dont do it again, great but Im not responsible for your actions. So why is Jesus responsible for sins of other people, that is not Fair! Thanks for trying to explain it to me though.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Cmon dude, Why would you mention old testament prophets? It makes no sense regarding her question and act as though I had never heard of them. Truly you make a dizzying argument.

Yes, there are prophets today. They are Jewish.

Satisfied?

 

[Truthspeaker]

No I don't understand it, It is like your saying God is a socialist. It does not make sense to me sorry. The way it reads to me is like God made two people then decided they should experience life but instead of trying to warn them to watch out for cars , look both ways before you cross the street he just sent them into the middle of traffic, and let them get hit or get across the street if they were able to. w00t? No thanks ! Why would that be? it doesnt make sense. Also I am Against the "bank bailout" why should I have to support all the losers who went into debt knowingly when I didnt? So its hard for me to get it. Now if you go to debt counciling and pay your own bills off and dont do it again, great but Im not responsible for your actions. So why is Jesus responsible for sins of other people, that is not Fair! Thanks for trying to explain it to me though.

I am also not for the bank bailouts so maybe it wasn't the best analogy. The other thing is that Jesus was not responsible to save us. It was his willingness to do it that makes it special. He didn't have to. we would have been forever damned because of our evil nature. but he saw the good in us and decided to intercede. Also he does give us warnings about what to do to avoid pitfalls and harms. He sends people to help us, gives us scriptures and puts good thoughts in our minds to help us make the right decisions.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yes, there are prophets today. They are Jewish.

Satisfied?

Yes, although I would like to know what some of the prophets say.