The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[JoeB131]

Getting back to the premise of the Stormy Mac "Why doesn't everyone agree with me" screed.

The real problem is not that the extreme's are killing us, it's that there is very little middle left.

You see, the fact is the partisans will ALWAYS, ALWAYS have more say in who gets the nomination for President because they are committed. They donate their time and money, they are involved, they become thought leaders on boards like this one, etc.

Where we fail is that the apathetic middle which doesn't engage in elections until a few weeks before election day is becoming less and less.

You see, it used to be if the partisans shit the bed and nominated someone who was out there, the apathetic middle would say, "What the fuck" and elect someone who was kind of sensible, even if he came off as a little shifty.

We saw that with Barry "Deep down you know he's nuts" Goldwater in 1964 and we saw that with George "Abortion, Acid and Amnesty" McGovern in 1972. The middle looked at these guys and went with the devil they knew.

This is what SHOULD have happened in 2016. Anyone with a lick of sense, even Republicans, realized that Trump had no business being in the White House. but instead of sensibly coming out against him like the middle did in 64 and 72, people shrugged their shoulders, and said... "What's the worst that can happen?"

Well, we saw that. Plagues, riots, recession, business failures, wildfires.

And instead of saying, "Wow, we made a mistake," a lot of people doubled down and voted for him again.

 

[j-mac]

He wouldn't have HAD to bail out the banks if Bush hadn't let them give out shaky mortgages and then inflate their value and sell them as investments.

If he hadn't bailed out the banks, the Great Recession would have been ten times worse.

So let's look at foreclosures, shall we? Oh, wait, they peaked in 2010 and were cut by 2/3rds by the time Obama left.

Number of new mortgages a year.

MEANWHILE, the number of repeat homeowners increased on his watch.

Of course, I don't feel a LOT of sympathy for these people who were "Thrown out of their homes" because a lot of them NEVER should have gotten a mortgage from the git-go.


I compare my home buying experience in 2004 (where it was pretty easy to get a loan) to the one I did in 2021, where they pretty much asked for everything short of a colonoscopy to make sure I was a good risk.

 

[BlackSand]

There is no common ground so there will be constant fighting between both sides of the political spectrum.

.

Oh ... There's a shitload of common ground ...
Just the closer you get to the Assclowns in the Establishment on Capitol Hill ... The harder it is to find.

And Fighting ... People are fighting with each other over crap ...
Just the balls the Assclowns in the Establishment keep tossing down the road ... For the people to chase like rabid dogs.

There's no two sides about it ... Until your figure out it is "us or them" ...
And the "them" ... Are the Assclowns in the Establishment ... And both major parties.

.​

 

[skews13]

As long as this is either/or, win/lose, all or nothing, the damage will continue.

If we don't start collaborating and innovating so that we all have skin in the game, this thing could fall apart. Self-inflicted wound.

Conservatism is a cancer that must be eradicated Mac.

Don't want to be pregnant? Here's what abortion opponents can do to you in Texas

We all know that elections have consequences. But not all consequences are as plain as this. As reported by Alexandria Gonzalez-Ramirez for New York Magazine: A Texas man has sued three women, whom he accuses of murder, for allegedly helping his...

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[scruffy]

let's change the rules they play under. Let's neuter them enough that they have to concentrate on improving things, not just beating the other side.

How do you propose to do that?

What you're suggesting requires Constitutional amendments.

As long as we don't enough to change the rules, we're just bending over for more of the same.

There's also a less friendly way of changing the rules.

 

[leftwinger]

As long as this is either/or, win/lose, all or nothing, the damage will continue.

If we don't start collaborating and innovating so that we all have skin in the game, this thing could fall apart. Self-inflicted wound.

the Trump yrs proved OUR way works 1000X best, Common sense. This is why the enemy launched man-made virus & corrupted the system to get rid of him. You all fell in line.

People could see thru the MSM BS 2015-2021 and the corrupt inneffective Politicians were exposed. They are currently doing all they can to censor and hide truth again from the public (using corrupted MSM).

there is no time to “change the system”, radically. Perhaps a few small tweaks? Big change takes decades, we no longer have. The enemys of America are in charge thru puppet GOVT.

 

[Blaster]

I usually vote for 3rd party candidates even though I realize they have very little chance of being elected. The majority of voters are either Republican or Democrat and blindly support their party. This is why government has failed us.

 

[Mac1958]

Conservatism is a cancer that must be eradicated Mac.

Don't want to be pregnant? Here's what abortion opponents can do to you in Texas

We all know that elections have consequences. But not all consequences are as plain as this. As reported by Alexandria Gonzalez-Ramirez for New York Magazine: A Texas man has sued three women, whom he accuses of murder, for allegedly helping his...

www.dailykos.com

I'd rather see an intelligent balance, taking the best ideas from across the spectrum, marginalizing the loonies.

 

[Blaster]

Conservatism is a cancer that must be eradicated

Folks that think like you is the reason there can be no progress.

 

[j-mac]

I usually vote for 3rd party candidates even though I realize they have very little chance of being elected. The majority of voters are either Republican or Democrat and blindly support their party. This is why government has failed us.

Wouldn't a better solution be to work within the party you agree with most to get them back to reason?

 

[Mac1958]

How do you propose to do that?

What you're suggesting requires Constitutional amendments.


There's also a less friendly way of changing the rules.

To start:

• Ranked choice voting
• Short, strict term limits
• Bipartisan redistricting conditions
• Publicly-funded elections
• Get rid of dark money

For starters. Not everyone will agree with everything, but that's what communication, collaboration and innovation are for. Maybe that would yield NEW IDEAS.

Like the way our Constitution was created.

 

[j-mac]

I'd rather see an intelligent balance, taking the best ideas from across the spectrum, marginalizing the loonies.

I couldn't agree more Mac. How would you propose we start that process without devolving into the normal attack mode?

 

[sparky]

Okay. Let's back up a minute.

I dispute the thread title.

What we have here, is not two ends of a political spectrum.

What we have here, is two "parties". And "parties" are FINANCIAL institutions. (Some of the biggest and most powerful in the country).

These parties, are barely even political. They'll compromise on any damn thing. Politically, they're mostly a bunch of gutless spineless cowards.

However when it comes to money, they're very proactive. Very proactive indeed.

I look at it kinda this way: in the middle, there's the Constitution, and on each side of it are parties who have financial (and rarely ideological) reasons not to obey it. Most of the time, the reasons and agendas cancel each other out. Where we get into trouble, is when they become synergistic.

I'll give you a perfect example. Citizens United. Speech is money.

As long as that holds, there is ZERO chance of fixing the finances.

Speech is NOT money. Even a blindfolded retarded ten year old can tell you that. Speech is the stuff that comes out of your mouth, money is the stuff in your wallet. The Constitution says commerce can be REGULATED. Commerce is money. Any time money changes hands, that's commerce - and if it crosses state lines (which 90% of the dark money does) it can be REGULATED.

The original decision was in favor of one party, but did we hear the other party howling? No. Because they had and have a financial reason not to.

Politicians are horrible human beings, they're greedy power hungry scumbags. The last statesman I remember was Tom Lantos, who died 20 years ago.

Politicians, need to be under a populist Sword of Damocles AT ALL TIMES. Not just once every four years, and not just on Jan 6.

It's an essential part of our checks and balances.

Free speech isn't free , i'll grant you that Scuff...~S~

 

[Blaster]

Wouldn't a better solution be to work within the party you agree with most to get them back to reason?

Unfortunately both sides are unwilling to agree on anything but we keep on electing these people. We only have ourselves to blame for the dysfunction.

 

[sparky]

To start:

• Ranked choice voting
• Short, strict term limits
• Bipartisan redistricting conditions
• Publicly-funded elections
• Get rid of dark money

For starters. Not everyone will agree with everything, but that's what communication, collaboration and innovation are for. Maybe that would yield NEW IDEAS.

Like the way our Constitution was created.

An apt Start Mac, in fact isn't RCV already being instituted? ~S~

 

[Mac1958]

I couldn't agree more Mac. How would you propose we start that process without devolving into the normal attack mode?

We're so far from constructive behavior right now that I'm not even sure.

Both ends have to begin by ignoring tribalism and actually LISTENING to the other side for a change. Bring back HONEST CURIOSITY. The ends of our spectrum have ZERO curiosity right now.

Grass roots? Instead of going to a political rally, take a friend from other party to lunch, ASK QUESTIONS, and LISTEN.

Either we start somewhere or we don't.

 

[leftwinger]

I usually vote for 3rd party candidates even though I realize they have very little chance of being elected. The majority of voters are either Republican or Democrat and blindly support their party. This is why government has failed us.

Trump was “third party”. A common sense pro-America, pro-business elevating all to join in and become successful.

he was hated before he started by DC. He showed them To be slow, stupid, corrupt & evil. Thus….they worked 24-7 to get rid of him. Not because his vision was not Great for America.

Trump was just the messenger for 200 million Americans, it could have been another person….Trump was just a representative.

 

[Mac1958]

We only have ourselves to blame for the dysfunction.

 

[j-mac]

Unfortunately both sides are unwilling to agree on anything but we keep on electing these people. We only have ourselves to blame for the dysfunction.

Ok, what's the solution? I mean, clearly you and I have not agreed on much in the past, but you have my attention now, so, give er a go...

 

[j-mac]

We only have so much time for self shame Mac...