The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Spoonman]

I know that. Someone please explain it to Bod.

Pointless. she doesn't listen.

 

[bodecea]

Precisely. He didn't found a country.

he didn't found it. he rebuilt it. or I should say restored pride to it for a period and motivated the people to become productive. Germany existed before hitler

Did he overthrow the old government? Yes he did.

Did he change the form of government? Yes he did.

Did he and his party write a new constitution? Yes they did.


So, explain to me how that is different than what OUR founders did with the old English colonies?

 

[Spoonman]

Precisely. He didn't found a country.

he didn't found it. he rebuilt it. or I should say restored pride to it for a period and motivated the people to become productive. Germany existed before hitler

Did he overthrow the old government? Yes he did.

Did he change the form of government? Yes he did.

Did he and his party write a new constitution? Yes they did.


So, explain to me how that is different than what OUR founders did with the old English colonies?

actually he didn't overthrow the old government. he attempted to and it faiied. he was arrested for that. He ws appointed chancelor by hindenberg. he didn't overthrow him.

 

[JBeukema]

Is a nation defined by its people, its flag, its borders, or something else?

 

[bodecea]

he didn't found it. he rebuilt it. or I should say restored pride to it for a period and motivated the people to become productive. Germany existed before hitler

Did he overthrow the old government? Yes he did.

Did he change the form of government? Yes he did.

Did he and his party write a new constitution? Yes they did.


So, explain to me how that is different than what OUR founders did with the old English colonies?

actually he didn't overthrow the old government. he attempted to and it faiied. he was arrested for that. He ws appointed chancelor by hindenberg. he didn't overthrow him.

DId he overthrown the old government once he was in a position to do so...Yes he did.

 

[Spoonman]

Did he overthrow the old government? Yes he did.

Did he change the form of government? Yes he did.

Did he and his party write a new constitution? Yes they did.


So, explain to me how that is different than what OUR founders did with the old English colonies?

actually he didn't overthrow the old government. he attempted to and it faiied. he was arrested for that. He ws appointed chancelor by hindenberg. he didn't overthrow him.

DId he overthrown the old government once he was in a position to do so...Yes he did.

no, he was appointed chancelor. he fostered pan germanism and gaind the support of the majority of the german public. hisparty members won positions to parliment through elections. they didn't overthrow anything. Through elections he controled the executive and legislative branches, much like the obama admin did in 2008. how is that any different? They used their combinded power to make changes, funding abortion, stem cell research, that helathcare fiasco. had they been a coheasive unit they would have pushed a lot more through and changed the face of government. look at the government here in the 60's. libs controlled the executuve and legislative and took the opportunity to stack the judicial. Libs and the warren court re interpreted the constitution and in effect basically re wrote it. given the opportunity in 2008 team obama would have dome the same.

 

[8atman]

Well, if you can list those Christian principles that our country was founded on....you will be the first. Have at it, my friend. List them. Give us at least a few.

Please, allow me.


Macro / Systemic Implementations:

Principle: Man created in God’s image.
Document: Declaration
Bible: Genesis 1:27; 1 Corinthians 11:7

Principle: Because of this (see above), he has been given
unalienable rights by his Creator
Document: Declaration
Bible: Proverbs 31:8; Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 17:19-20;
Mark 12:30,31; Acts 10:34; Galatians 3:28

Principle: Left to his own devices man is sinful and self-
serving
Document: Constitutional Separation of Powers / Checks & Balances
Bible: Jeremiah 17:9; Isaiah 33:22

Principle: Rule of law supercedes authority of man
Document: Declaration, Constitution
Bible: Matthew 23:2-4


Micro / Specific Implementations:

Principle: Importance of self-governance
Document: First, Second, Ninth Amendments
Bible: Matthew 18:15-18; 1 Corinthians 6:1-3

Principle: Restitution
Document: Federal, state restitution laws
Bible: Leviticus 6:1-5; Numbers 5:5-7; Matthew 5:23-26

Principle: Religious freedom
Document: First Amendment
Bible: 2 Chronicles 36:22,23; 1 Timothy 1,2

Principle: Freedom of speech
Document: First Amendment
Bible: Psalm 119:44, 45

Principle: Levy of taxes
Document: Constitution
Bible: Matthew 22:19-21; Romans 13:6

Principle: Church tax exemption
Document: First Amendment
Bible: Ezra 7:24

Principle: A militia composed of the citizenry
Document: Second Amendment
Bible: Nehemiah 4:13, 14

Principle: A standard of weights and measures
Document: Constitution
Bible: Leviticus 19:35, 36

Principle: Only a natural-born citizen may become President
Document: Constitution
Bible: Deuteronomy 17:14, 15

Principle: Judges, major and inferior courts
Document: Constitution
Bible: Exodus 18:21, 22

Principle: Testimony of witnesses
Document: Constitution
Bible: Deuteronomy 17:6

 

[bodecea]

Is a nation defined by its people, its flag, its borders, or something else?

Apparently, unless it's a brand new country that is in a place which never had a country before...it doesn't count....in some wild excuse......

Ironically, the whole point of me bringing up Hitler and the Third Reich was to point out that what a leader(s) says they stand for and what they and their government really do with their power can be two totally different things. Actions speak much louder than words. Hitler may have SAID he was a Christian and SAID that his country was based on Christian tenets.....the doing was something totally different...totalitarianly different, we might say.


...and then we got bogged down in the "Oh, the Third Reich isn't really a country...nana nana boo boo".

 

[bodecea]

Well, if you can list those Christian principles that our country was founded on....you will be the first. Have at it, my friend. List them. Give us at least a few.

Please, allow me.


Macro / Systemic Implementations:

Principle: Man created in God’s image.
Document: Declaration
Bible: Genesis 1:27; 1 Corinthians 11:7

Principle: Because of this (see above), he has been given
unalienable rights by his Creator
Document: Declaration
Bible: Proverbs 31:8; Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 17:19-20;
Mark 12:30,31; Acts 10:34; Galatians 3:28

This whole concept of a Creator....it is a Christian tenet? Or a generic tenet?
(remember, the assertion is that these are CHRISTIAN tenets)

Principle: Left to his own devices man is sinful and self-
serving
Document: Constitutional Separation of Powers / Checks & Balances
Bible: Jeremiah 17:9; Isaiah 33:22

No offence, but that quote seems to speak directly AGAINST the concept of individual freedom and the concept of less government. Besides, they are OT quotes...Jewish tenets maybe...Christian tenets...a tad too early for Christianity.

Principle: Rule of law supercedes authority of man
Document: Declaration, Constitution
Bible: Matthew 23:2-4

Is that uniquely Christian too?

And
Micro / Specific Implementations:

Principle: Importance of self-governance
Document: First, Second, Ninth Amendments
Bible: Matthew 18:15-18; 1 Corinthians 6:1-3

Don't have the biblical quote in front of me so will pass at this time.

Principle: Restitution
Document: Federal, state restitution laws
Bible: Leviticus 6:1-5; Numbers 5:5-7; Matthew 5:23-26

Leviticus is Jewish...don't have the other quotes in front of me so will pass at this time.

Principle: Religious freedom
Document: First Amendment
Bible: 2 Chronicles 36:22,23; 1 Timothy 1,2

Is religious freedom a Christian tenet? over 1500 years of Christianity seems to put the lie to that.

Principle: Freedom of speech
Document: First Amendment
Bible: Psalm 119:44, 45

Jewish tenet if any religion.

Principle: Levy of taxes
Document: Constitution
Bible: Matthew 22:19-21; Romans 13:6

Is that a unique tenet of our unique country....or something that is found in all countries old and young as a given?

Principle: Church tax exemption
Document: First Amendment
Bible: Ezra 7:24

That one I will give you....but is that a tenet of our founding fathers? When did church tax exemption actually start? (and I disagree in it, btw)

Principle: A militia composed of the citizenry
Document: Second Amendment
Bible: Nehemiah 4:13, 14

OT again.

Principle: A standard of weights and measures
Document: Constitution
Bible: Leviticus 19:35, 36

OT again

Principle: Only a natural-born citizen may become President
Document: Constitution
Bible: Deuteronomy 17:14, 15

OT again

Principle: Judges, major and inferior courts
Document: Constitution
Bible: Exodus 18:21, 22

OT again

Principle: Testimony of witnesses
Document: Constitution
Bible: Deuteronomy 17:6

YOu may have a case for our country being founded on Jewish law....


I would like to thank you for actually answering the question instead of pretending that you did in some long distance post.

 

[JBeukema]

Did someone just claim Christians came up with standard weights and measures and this was a new idea?

 

[JBeukema]

You cite Jesus talking about the taxes the romans levied and claim he came up with principle of taxes?

 

[Spoonman]

Is a nation defined by its people, its flag, its borders, or something else?

Apparently, unless it's a brand new country that is in a place which never had a country before...it doesn't count....in some wild excuse......

Ironically, the whole point of me bringing up Hitler and the Third Reich was to point out that what a leader(s) says they stand for and what they and their government really do with their power can be two totally different things. Actions speak much louder than words. Hitler may have SAID he was a Christian and SAID that his country was based on Christian tenets.....the doing was something totally different...totalitarianly different, we might say.


...and then we got bogged down in the "Oh, the Third Reich isn't really a country...nana nana boo boo".

Geez, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the obama administration

well hitler certainly didn't embrace christian values during his tenure

 

[JBeukema]

Principle: Importance of self-governance
Document: First, Second, Ninth Amendments
Bible: Matthew 18:15-18; 1 Corinthians 6:1-3

1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!


Self-government means never turning to the State to enforce law?

Vigilantism is a Christian tenent?

Principle: Religious freedom
Document: First Amendment
Bible: 2 Chronicles 36:22,23

22 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing: 23 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:
“‘The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Any of his people among you may go up, and may the LORD their God be with them.’”

Principle: Freedom of speech
Document: First Amendment
Bible: Psalm 119:44, 45

44 I will always obey your law,
for ever and ever.
45 I will walk about in freedom,
for I have sought out your precepts.

Principle: A militia composed of the citizenry
Document: Second Amendment
Bible: Nehemiah 4:13, 14

13So in the lowest parts of the space behind the wall, in open places, I stationed the people by their clans, with their swords, their spears, and their bows. 14And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people,(A) "Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord,(B) who is great and awesome,(C) and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes."



Nobody before the Jews ever fought to defend their homes?

Principle: Only a natural-born citizen may become President
Document: Constitution

200 BC The Code of Hammurabi. One of the earliest law codes, which standardized weights and measures, commercial transactions and contracts, and criminal penalties. Payments were based on fixed amounts of silver or grain. About this time metal became used as a medium of exchange in the Middle East.

Damn you're stupid.

Why do you people have be so dishonest to try and make your point?

Principle: Testimony of witnesses
Document: Constitution
Bible: Deuteronomy 17:6

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=+1]

3. If a man has borne false witness in a trial, or has not established the statement that he has made, if that case be a capital trial, that man shall be put to death.


4. If he has borne false witness in a civil law case, he shall pay the damages in that suit.
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
Code of Hammurabi

 

[AllieBaba]

None of that is relevant to the question...was the US founded upon Christianity.

Of course it was. You can piss and moan about all the horrible things that you think have happened because of Christianity, but it doesn't change that simple fact.

 

[JBeukema]

So the FF were liars, Allie?

 

[TheBrain]

actually he didn't overthrow the old government. he attempted to and it faiied. he was arrested for that. He ws appointed chancelor by hindenberg. he didn't overthrow him.

DId he overthrown the old government once he was in a position to do so...Yes he did.

no, he was appointed chancelor. he fostered pan germanism and gaind the support of the majority of the german public. hisparty members won positions to parliment through elections. they didn't overthrow anything. Through elections he controled the executive and legislative branches, much like the obama admin did in 2008. how is that any different? They used their combinded power to make changes, funding abortion, stem cell research, that helathcare fiasco. had they been a coheasive unit they would have pushed a lot more through and changed the face of government. look at the government here in the 60's. libs controlled the executuve and legislative and took the opportunity to stack the judicial. Libs and the warren court re interpreted the constitution and in effect basically re wrote it. given the opportunity in 2008 team obama would have dome the same.

LOL the "history major" strikes again. WHat a dumb shit, she doesn't even understand that Hitler became part of the existing government, his attempted coup prior to that landed his ass in prison.

She is the dumbest person EVER.

 

[bodecea]

Is a nation defined by its people, its flag, its borders, or something else?

Apparently, unless it's a brand new country that is in a place which never had a country before...it doesn't count....in some wild excuse......

Ironically, the whole point of me bringing up Hitler and the Third Reich was to point out that what a leader(s) says they stand for and what they and their government really do with their power can be two totally different things. Actions speak much louder than words. Hitler may have SAID he was a Christian and SAID that his country was based on Christian tenets.....the doing was something totally different...totalitarianly different, we might say.


...and then we got bogged down in the "Oh, the Third Reich isn't really a country...nana nana boo boo".

Geez, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the obama administration

well hitler certainly didn't embrace christian values during his tenure

You are absolutely right...tho he did SAY he did. And that was the point...what someone says and what someone does can be two different things. The proof is in the actions.

Which brings up back to the ACTIONS of our founders.

 

[bodecea]

DId he overthrown the old government once he was in a position to do so...Yes he did.

no, he was appointed chancelor. he fostered pan germanism and gaind the support of the majority of the german public. hisparty members won positions to parliment through elections. they didn't overthrow anything. Through elections he controled the executive and legislative branches, much like the obama admin did in 2008. how is that any different? They used their combinded power to make changes, funding abortion, stem cell research, that helathcare fiasco. had they been a coheasive unit they would have pushed a lot more through and changed the face of government. look at the government here in the 60's. libs controlled the executuve and legislative and took the opportunity to stack the judicial. Libs and the warren court re interpreted the constitution and in effect basically re wrote it. given the opportunity in 2008 team obama would have dome the same.

LOL the "history major" strikes again. WHat a dumb shit, she doesn't even understand that Hitler became part of the existing government, his attempted coup prior to that landed his ass in prison.

She is the dumbest person EVER.

Well, well, well....so you are inferring that once Hitler became part of the existing government he LEFT IT the way it was......


(Who's the dumb one?)

 

[AllieBaba]

What does that have to do with founding Germany, nutbar?

Cuz that's what you said he did. He *founded* a country.

 

[bodecea]

What does that have to do with founding Germany, nutbar?

Cuz that's what you said he did. He *founded* a country.

The Third Reich...it did not exist before Hitler. But please, feel free to go on.....it sure beats showing us ANY of those so-called Christian tenets you say our country was founded on....at least we have one poster who tried....more than can be said for you.