The value of slavery?

[Coyote]

Who gets reparations?

All blacks?
Just those who can show they descended from slaves?
What's wrong with starting with those who can trace their ancestry to a specific planation or sale
Those who immigrated here post slavery?
What is black? Anyone with a dna test showing they have a black ancestor somewhere? 50%....100%....
What is white?
What about whites who had no part in the slave trade or immigrated post slavery, should they pay?
The government pays because the whites involved in the institution of chattel slavery would not have been able to do so but for the racist laws that they created and the government enforced.
How about whites who lost their lives running the Underground Railroad or working for voting rights for blacks...should they get recompense or are they part of the group that pays?
Not to discount their participation or the risks that they took but there were no laws requiring them to do anything unlike the laws that required black people be kept in captivity and returned to captivity if they managed to escape.

If the government pays it means I pay.

Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparation innacted by the government?

 

[Coyote]

I think reparations are a fine line. For instance not all states legalized slavery. Reparation should really be for survivors not descendents hundreds of years later.

Government programs designed to address racial inequality and discrimination really are a form of reparation and an attempt to address longstanding policies and attitudes that targeted blacks.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

the breeding and selling of human beings......??????

That's is actually accurate. The slaves were considered chattel, no different that the slave owners livestock, to be bred in order to increase his slave holdings. Some of the owners fathered the children themselves.

 

[irosie91]

the breeding and selling of human beings......??????

That's is actually accurate. The slaves were considered chattel, no different that the slave owners livestock, to be bred in order to increase his slave holdings. Some of the owners fathered the children themselves.

read it again----the POSTER said that the practice of BREEDING SLAVES is an ONGOING PRACTICE----ie NOW. As to how ACCURATE AND PREVALENT was purposeful BREEDING ----try not to engage in wishful
thinking -------- I doubt that such a practice was THE THING----on the
TARA plantation

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

If the government pays it means I pay.
Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparation innacted by the government?

If you're speaking strictly of taxes, we ALL pay for things that we don't want and some of us don't get. Or for things that are used to violate our rights.

On what specific grounds do you feel that any money received by the government through it's normal channgels should not be spent on reparations? And no, affirmative action is not a reparation. For some strange reason they had to spell it out in our laws that racial discrimination is bad and was now a violation of a specific law that allowed the injured party a private cause of action after exhausting all of their administrative remedies. I addressed this a little while ago in a separate post, you must have missed it.

 

[Coyote]

My feeling is reparations are made to survivors not descendents...and in a sense reparations have already been made through affirmative action legislation.

Affirmative action doesn't compensate anyone for any harm done to them prior to the passage of our current civil rights legislation. In short in codifies discriminatory hiring, firing, promotion, etc. practices in employment at the federal level and creates a private cause of action which the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has authority to investigate. In some of the most egregious cases the EEOC may bring suit on behalf of the complaintant. And contrary to popular belief it doesn't elevate "unqualifed" black people over "qualified" white people. In fact the law itself is race neutral. Companies were instructed to

"take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, color, religion, sex or national origin.
​

White women have benefited more than any other group as a result of this legislation.

Blacks have also benefited. And no blacks alive today have been enslaved. No whites today have enslaved them. You can’t just say the government should pay...we all fund it and paying for something I had no part in or would ever support is wrong also.

Reparations were made to the Japanese Americans interned during WW2, paid out to each survivor. Not their descendents. A public apology by Reagan representing the government. In my opinion, that is just.

 

[Coyote]

If the government pays it means I pay.
Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparation innacted by the government?

If you're speaking strictly of taxes, we ALL pay for things that we don't want and some of us don't get. Or for things that are used to violate our rights.

On what specific grounds do you feel that any money received by the government through it's normal channgels should not be spent on reparations? And no, affirmative action is not a reparation. For some strange reason they had to spell it out in our laws that racial discrimination is bad and was now a violation of a specific law that allowed the injured party a private cause of action after exhausting all of their administrative remedies. I addressed this a little while ago in a separate post, you must have missed it.

Point taken.

Yes I responded before reading your post.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

read it again----the POSTER said that the practice of BREEDING SLAVES is an ONGOING PRACTICE----ie NOW. As to how ACCURATE AND PREVALENT was purposeful BREEDING ----try not to engage in wishful
thinking -------- I doubt that such a practice was THE THING----on the
TARA plantation

Do you need some smelling salts? How about a fainting couch?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Reparations were made to the Japanese Americans interned during WW2, paid out to each survivor. Not their descendents. A public apology by Reagan representing the government. In my opinion, that is just.

And those reparations should have been made along with the apology. But what determines whether reparations should be paid is the harm that was done, not that our government managed to wait enough time til everyone who could come after it with a claim were all dead. The harm didn't die with them, it was perpetuated for centuries through our government's racist and discriminatory laws and court rulings. And the damage is still being incurred though not in the volume that it had previuosly but still plenty enough for us to know that the problems have not cured.

 

[irosie91]

read it again----the POSTER said that the practice of BREEDING SLAVES is an ONGOING PRACTICE----ie NOW. As to how ACCURATE AND PREVALENT was purposeful BREEDING ----try not to engage in wishful
thinking -------- I doubt that such a practice was THE THING----on the
TARA plantation

Do you need some smelling salts? How about a fainting couch?

about what are you babbling??

 

[dave p]

Who gets reparations?

All blacks?
Just those who can show they descended from slaves?
What's wrong with starting with those who can trace their ancestry to a specific planation or sale
Those who immigrated here post slavery?
What is black? Anyone with a dna test showing they have a black ancestor somewhere? 50%....100%....
What is white?
What about whites who had no part in the slave trade or immigrated post slavery, should they pay?
The government pays because the whites involved in the institution of chattel slavery would not have been able to do so but for the racist laws that they created and the government enforced.
How about whites who lost their lives running the Underground Railroad or working for voting rights for blacks...should they get recompense or are they part of the group that pays?
Not to discount their participation or the risks that they took but there were no laws requiring them to do anything unlike the laws that required black people be kept in captivity and returned to captivity if they managed to escape.

If the government pays it means I pay.

Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparation innacted by the government?

Reparations were made to the Japanese Americans interned during WW2, paid out to each survivor. Not their descendents. A public apology by Reagan representing the government. In my opinion, that is just.

And those reparations should have been made along with the apology. But what determines whether reparations should be paid is the harm that was done, not that our government managed to wait enough time til everyone who could come after it with a claim were all dead. The harm didn't die with them, it was perpetuated for centuries through our government's racist and discriminatory laws and court rulings. And the damage is still being incurred though not in the volume that it had previuosly but still plenty enough for us to know that the problems have not cured.

there are plenty of reparations already in place. No more are needed.

 

[yiostheoy]

What would you estimate the value of slavery in the US to have been?
Specifically, if reparations were to be made for slavery, how much would you estimate the value of lost wages plus interest to be? Please be specific. What pay scale would you propose be used, and what amount of interest?
Who would you propose be paid reparations for slavery in the US?
And, who would you propose pay into the fund to be dispersed to those deemed recipients of said reparations?

Reparations.

Funny.

No free money for negroes.

They are not native americans.

 

[yiostheoy]

Every negro who want a free boat trip back to Africa should be entitled to this.

 

[yiostheoy]

If this reparations talk for blacks continues then the far right is likely to make them all swim back to Africa.

 

[yiostheoy]

Here is a piece I found.
How America Should Pay Reparations

Thank you. There are good points there, but leaves it up to individuals to determine their qualification, and to determine the amount acceptable to each. At least once (that I know of), such a program of reparation has been implemented and paid for: Black Farmers to Receive Payouts in $1.2 Billion from Federal Lawsuit. It was fraught with fraud and abuse and left too many legitimate claimants unrewarded.
I'm actually looking for your calculations and how you determine them. Do you not consider the myriad of other programs, like Affirmative Action, that addressed past discrimination, to have been at least partially helpful?

You are as stupid as the day is long and hot.

 

[yiostheoy]

From what I've seen, the posters on this site that support reparations do so for more than just slavery.

There is case for that as well but we are only discussing slavery. We know that laws and policies were implemented to cheat and hold Blacks back like share cropping, vagrancy laws, Black codes, red lining, loan denial etc etc etc but those are not part of the discussion now.

That was just Southern politics as usual.

Nobody wanted blackie (1) to have a gun, (2) to have a farm, (3) to have a job.

Sort of the same way the Mexican illegal immigrants are being treated now.

There is no new thing under the sun.

 

[IM2]

If this reparations talk for blacks continues then the far right is likely to make them all swim back to Africa.

I don't think so. It might be the end of the far right if they were to even think about something like that. I'd like to see a right winger try making someone like Mike Tyson swim anywhere. I'd pay big money to see that.

 

[IM2]

Who gets reparations?

All blacks?
Just those who can show they descended from slaves?
What's wrong with starting with those who can trace their ancestry to a specific planation or sale
Those who immigrated here post slavery?
What is black? Anyone with a dna test showing they have a black ancestor somewhere? 50%....100%....
What is white?
What about whites who had no part in the slave trade or immigrated post slavery, should they pay?
The government pays because the whites involved in the institution of chattel slavery would not have been able to do so but for the racist laws that they created and the government enforced.
How about whites who lost their lives running the Underground Railroad or working for voting rights for blacks...should they get recompense or are they part of the group that pays?
Not to discount their participation or the risks that they took but there were no laws requiring them to do anything unlike the laws that required black people be kept in captivity and returned to captivity if they managed to escape.

If the government pays it means I pay.

Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparation innacted by the government?

Reparations were made to the Japanese Americans interned during WW2, paid out to each survivor. Not their descendents. A public apology by Reagan representing the government. In my opinion, that is just.

And those reparations should have been made along with the apology. But what determines whether reparations should be paid is the harm that was done, not that our government managed to wait enough time til everyone who could come after it with a claim were all dead. The harm didn't die with them, it was perpetuated for centuries through our government's racist and discriminatory laws and court rulings. And the damage is still being incurred though not in the volume that it had previuosly but still plenty enough for us to know that the problems have not cured.

there are plenty of reparations already in place. No more are needed.

No, there are no reparations in place. Not for blacks.

 

[IM2]

What would you estimate the value of slavery in the US to have been?
Specifically, if reparations were to be made for slavery, how much would you estimate the value of lost wages plus interest to be? Please be specific. What pay scale would you propose be used, and what amount of interest?
Who would you propose be paid reparations for slavery in the US?
And, who would you propose pay into the fund to be dispersed to those deemed recipients of said reparations?

Reparations.

Funny.

No free money for negroes.

They are not native americans.

Explain the legal basis on which your argument is supported.

 

[IM2]

Who gets reparations?

All blacks?
Just those who can show they descended from slaves?
What's wrong with starting with those who can trace their ancestry to a specific planation or sale
Those who immigrated here post slavery?
What is black? Anyone with a dna test showing they have a black ancestor somewhere? 50%....100%....
What is white?
What about whites who had no part in the slave trade or immigrated post slavery, should they pay?
The government pays because the whites involved in the institution of chattel slavery would not have been able to do so but for the racist laws that they created and the government enforced.
How about whites who lost their lives running the Underground Railroad or working for voting rights for blacks...should they get recompense or are they part of the group that pays?
Not to discount their participation or the risks that they took but there were no laws requiring them to do anything unlike the laws that required black people be kept in captivity and returned to captivity if they managed to escape.

If the government pays it means I pay.

Isn’t affirmative action a form of reparation innacted by the government?

No.