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I'm not seeing that. Wake up.I’m right on target.We know how upwardly mobile the DC area is.I work in 3 Black neighborhoods.Love those canards don't you?
Where does your hands on knowledge come from?
Working in a black neighborhood in DC in a majority black workforce.
But more to the point, I can read and find resources.
We're going to get off topic if we keep on down this path. What does it have to do with reparations?
Blacks are given every opportunity and blow every one.
Not Everyone Can Live Off The CasinosThe Native Americans were allowed to open their well run casinos and many have made a fortune.
Keep stretching. I’d continue but it’s Sunday and the wife is intent on doing something.Slaves were not killed as a directive of the Government. There in lies the difference.It isn’t debatable. The armyAnd have thusly been changed. However no law ever existed and no directive was ever gussied or given to engage in genocide against Blacks as it Was to every tribe of Native Americans. Again I say apples and oranges.
Yes, as have laws regarding Native Americans. Whether it is enslavement and all it's associated abuses or "genocide" (which is debatable that was an actual government policy) - it's all pretty horrible and neither is better or worse than the other. This isn't a zero sum equation.
the genicide isn’t debatable. And she se the specific targeting and killing of human beings by a Government is more detestable than the slavery issue.And have thusly been changed. However no law ever existed and no directive was ever gussied or given to engage in genocide against Blacks as it Was to every tribe of Native Americans. Again I say apples and oranges.
Yes, as have laws regarding Native Americans. Whether it is enslavement and all it's associated abuses or "genocide" (which is debatable that was an actual government policy) - it's all pretty horrible and neither is better or worse than the other. This isn't a zero sum equation.
They are equally detestable - slavery and the subsequent daily degradations of racist law, is just another death. Many slaves were killed and died.
If slavery was legalized by the government and that same government decreed that blacks had no rights and blacks were killed as a result, the government did exactly that. I'm not even going to mention the government created slave patrols.
Keep stretching. I’d continue but it’s Sunday and the wife is intent on doing something.Slaves were not killed as a directive of the Government. There in lies the difference.It isn’t debatable. The armyYes, as have laws regarding Native Americans. Whether it is enslavement and all it's associated abuses or "genocide" (which is debatable that was an actual government policy) - it's all pretty horrible and neither is better or worse than the other. This isn't a zero sum equation.
the genicide isn’t debatable. And she se the specific targeting and killing of human beings by a Government is more detestable than the slavery issue.Yes, as have laws regarding Native Americans. Whether it is enslavement and all it's associated abuses or "genocide" (which is debatable that was an actual government policy) - it's all pretty horrible and neither is better or worse than the other. This isn't a zero sum equation.
They are equally detestable - slavery and the subsequent daily degradations of racist law, is just another death. Many slaves were killed and died.
If slavery was legalized by the government and that same government decreed that blacks had no rights and blacks were killed as a result, the government did exactly that. I'm not even going to mention the government created slave patrols.
My statement stands the only race worthy of considerations is the Native Americans. Blacks have equal footing today because of policies put forth, they have financial opportunities specifically for them as well as employment opportunities. That is reparations enough.
Totally incorrect.
Agree with that. If people must be deemed "worthy" of reparations, then that cast's a whole different (and not very palatable) light on it. If Native Americans should receive reparations today, then so should blacks and so should women come to think of it.
And no, I disagree with your assertion that Native Americans got reparations.
Native Americans DO get reparations.
- the making of amends for wrong or injury done: reparation for an injustice.
- Usually reparations. compensation in money, material, labor, etc., payable by a defeated country to another country or to an individual for loss suffered during or as a result of war.
- restoration to good condition.
No. They do not. We are talking about reparations in the meaning of #1.
They got reparations Coyote. Not saying it has been appropriate or that reparations would actually right the wrongs committed against them but they are wards of the government, they do not have to pay taxes, they are considered separate nations as it pertains to reservations while getting American government money, there have been specific government legislation for Native American economic development only, just to name a few things.
It is ridiculous for some here to pretend that blacks just simply showed up here because African governments made agreements with whites to bring black slaves here. We were removed from our homes. Native Americans owned slaves. And you can use the same argument about Native Americans helping whites kill thier own as you can with that sorry excuse of Africans selling each other.
Native American Scouts
Native Americans had been utilized as Scouts as far back as white men had been settling the American continent. After the Civil War, Indians from more than a dozen tribes were enlisted to assist the Army during the Indian Campaigns of the Great Plains and Southwest regions. By 1866, the Army had been engaged in the Indian Wars for twenty years. The borderlands, however, posed particular challenges. With limited manpower, the Army, needed help because of the sheer size and difficulty of the land area involved. Congress, therefore, authorized the Army to form a corps of up to 1,000 Indian Scouts for reconnaissance and combat duty on August 1, 1866. In 1871, as Commander of the Arizona Territory, General George Crook was charged with subduing the last of the warring tribes and finally bringing order to the frontier. Facing desolate, unmapped terrain, brutal conditions, and a desperate enemy, Crook recruited White Mountain and San Carlos Apaches to chase down the elusive Chiricahua Apaches, led by Cochise.
Native American Scouts
Everything you say is a stretch. You have proven time and time again how totally racist and ignorant you are.Keep stretching. I’d continue but it’s Sunday and the wife is intent on doing something.Slaves were not killed as a directive of the Government. There in lies the difference.It isn’t debatable. The army
the genicide isn’t debatable. And she se the specific targeting and killing of human beings by a Government is more detestable than the slavery issue.
They are equally detestable - slavery and the subsequent daily degradations of racist law, is just another death. Many slaves were killed and died.
If slavery was legalized by the government and that same government decreed that blacks had no rights and blacks were killed as a result, the government did exactly that. I'm not even going to mention the government created slave patrols.
Nobody is stretching. You are just dumb.
Your racist ignorant rants are old and quite simply moronic. You lie, you adjust everything to support your weak racist narrative. But you are comical.Keep stretching. I’d continue but it’s Sunday and the wife is intent on doing something.Slaves were not killed as a directive of the Government. There in lies the difference.It isn’t debatable. The army
the genicide isn’t debatable. And she se the specific targeting and killing of human beings by a Government is more detestable than the slavery issue.
They are equally detestable - slavery and the subsequent daily degradations of racist law, is just another death. Many slaves were killed and died.
If slavery was legalized by the government and that same government decreed that blacks had no rights and blacks were killed as a result, the government did exactly that. I'm not even going to mention the government created slave patrols.
Nobody is stretching. You are just dumb.
Because Black neighborhoods in the suburbs should be more successful and aren’t.Roosevelt, Uniondale and HempsteadSo you know full well you’re full of it.Working in a black neighborhood in DC in a majority black workforce.
But more to the point, I can read and find resources.
Just like you dude
And the few successful Blacks want nothing to do with the $500.90 sneaker wearers.
In otherwords...blacks are not a monolithic culture. About time folks started to figure that out.
I am black, grew up in a black neighborhood and worked in them. Independent really needs to be quiet like he's an expert on blacks because he's seen 3 black neighborhoods. Most of those so called successful blacks this fool talks about are from the same neighborhoods he claims they want nothing to do with.
Because Black neighborhoods in the suburbs should be more successful and aren’t.Roosevelt, Uniondale and Hempstead
And the few successful Blacks want nothing to do with the $500.90 sneaker wearers.
In otherwords...blacks are not a monolithic culture. About time folks started to figure that out.
I am black, grew up in a black neighborhood and worked in them. Independent really needs to be quiet like he's an expert on blacks because he's seen 3 black neighborhoods. Most of those so called successful blacks this fool talks about are from the same neighborhoods he claims they want nothing to do with.
I also grew uo in Brooklyn and I am fully aware of the low standards expected in Black Communities.
Give me an example of a successful Black area in NYC.Because Black neighborhoods in the suburbs should be more successful and aren’t.Roosevelt, Uniondale and HempsteadJust like you dude
And the few successful Blacks want nothing to do with the $500.90 sneaker wearers.
In otherwords...blacks are not a monolithic culture. About time folks started to figure that out.
I am black, grew up in a black neighborhood and worked in them. Independent really needs to be quiet like he's an expert on blacks because he's seen 3 black neighborhoods. Most of those so called successful blacks this fool talks about are from the same neighborhoods he claims they want nothing to do with.
I also grew uo in Brooklyn and I am fully aware of the low standards expected in Black Communities.
What you are is a white racist who imagines there are low standards expected in black communities.
The Answer Is.....Indeependent said:Give me an example of a successful Black area in NYC.
Give me an example of a successful Black area in Nassau County.
I'll wait.
Funding from every level? Really? You bloviate and spew absolute innacurate information. My god you’re pathetic.Some whites are real funny about declaring what's successful when the success their communities had have is dependent upon government funding from every level. Whites are real good at understanding why their communities have problems but when the same things happen in black communities then the problem turns to blacks/black culture and things like factory closings and economic downturns are ignored. This along with the ability for whites to just "forget" makes these discussions difficult.
See post 452.Some whites are real funny about declaring what's successful when the success their communities had have is dependent upon government funding from every level. Whites are real good at understanding why their communities have problems but when the same things happen in black communities then the problem turns to blacks/black culture and things like factory closings and economic downturns are ignored. This along with the ability for whites to just "forget" makes these discussions difficult.
And some people UNDERSTATE, such as IM2 lolDid We Sell Each Other Into Slavery: Misconceptions About the African Involvement in the Slave Trade
By Dwayne Wong (Omowale)
There are many misconceptions about African history and nowhere is this more true than the topic of the slave trade. Very often I see comments by people who argue that Africans sold each other into slavery. There is some element of truth to this, but to speak of the slave trade solely as Africans selling each other t is a gross oversimplification of what was a complex historical event. This also seems to be an attempt to shift the burden of the slave trade on the victims of that very trade. In How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, Walter Rodney mentions how the white author of a book on the slave trade admitted that he was encouraged by other scholars to blame the slave trade solely on the Africans. This narrative helps to lessen European guilt by making Africans seem just as or even more guilty of being involved in the slave trade. This piece is not an attempt to ignore the African role in the slave trade or to absolve those that were involved, but to to provide a more complete picture of the African involvement in slave trade.
In the first place, the Portuguese initiated what eventually became the Trans-Atlantic slave trade mainly through slave raids along the coasts of Africa. The first of these raids came in 1444 and was led by Lançarote de Freitas. The problem with raiding for slaves was that it was extremely dangerous. For instance, the slave trader Nuno Tristão was killed during an ambush. Slave raiding proved to be an extremely dangerous way to obtain slaves, but buying slaves was much safer and took less effort on the part of the Europeans. Therefore, the first phase of the slave trade began not with a trade, but with a series of raids. This point is especially important because although the slave trade was on some levels based on a partnership between European buyers and African traders, the slave trade did not begin as such.
Moreover, the partnership between the traders and buyers was an uneasy one. The European slave traders often betrayed those who supplied them with slaves. A famous case of this was the African slave trader Daaga who was tricked and captured by slave traders. He was taken to Trinidad where he would eventually lead a mutiny. Another example is given by Anne Bailey in her book African Voices in the Atlantic Slave Trade. She mentions the story of Chief Ndorkutsu who had been providing captives to the European traders. Eventually some of the Ndorkutsu’s own relatives were tricked into boarding a slave ship and then taken as slaves to Cuba. In some cases, such as that of Madam Tinubu in Nigeria and Afonso of the Kongo Kingdom, those Africans that initially gave African captives to the Europeans came to resist the slave trade. Tinubu had a change of heart when she realized how inhumanely the slaves were treated. Afonso was almost assassinated by the Portuguese after he demanded an end to the slave trade in his kingdom.
Typically wars in West Africa were relatively short affairs that left a small number of causalities. The introduction of European weapons made these wars more drawn out and destructive affairs. Moreover, the only way Africans could acquire these firearms was through the trade of slaves. A king of Dahomey once requested that Europeans establish a firearms factory in his nation, but this request went ignored. Firearms became necessary for African nations to defend themselves both from African rivals as well as from European intrusion, but the only way to acquire these weapons was through the slave trade. This situation only benefited the competing European powers that were able to play Africans against each other.
Finally, the slave trade left a negative legacy on both sides of the Atlantic. The Africans that were brought to the Americas were forced to labor as slaves, while enduring some of the most inhumane treatment imaginable. Those who remained, however, were left to mourn the lost of their friends and relatives that were taken away. A handful of African traders and rulers may have gained some wealth from the slave trade, but overall it was a very negative event for Africa. There were African kingdoms, such as the Kongo Kingdom, that eventually fell due to the onslaught brought about by the slave trade. We often think of the negative impact that the slave trade had on those who were captured, but the slave trade was also devastating for those who escaped being captured as well.
Some Africans did play a role in the slave trade and the trade could not have been as large as it was without cooperation from Africans. With that being said, I think many people who have not properly studied the slave trade have a tendency to overstate how involved Africans were in a misguided attempt to shift the blame of the slave trade on Africans.
—
Dwayne is the author of several books on the history and experiences of African people, both on the continent and in the diaspora. His books are available through Amazon. You can also follow Dwayne on Facebook.
Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery: Misconceptions About the African Involvement in the Slave Trade | HuffPost
oh----ok ----the very BEST you could do "some people overstate how involved Africans were....." ? ----<<< really impressive. Your citation is silly---it dates the INCEPTION OF THE CONCEPT OF SLAVERY to
1444 AD<<<<<<<<< ROFLMAO
What funding? And if whites have bad neighborhoods, I don't blame anyone but those whites who created it. I watch the news every night, the neighborhoods with the most crime are not white.Some whites are real funny about declaring what's successful when the success their communities had have is dependent upon government funding from every level. Whites are real good at understanding why their communities have problems but when the same things happen in black communities then the problem turns to blacks/black culture and things like factory closings and economic downturns are ignored. This along with the ability for whites to just "forget" makes these discussions difficult.
You’re right. If a neighborhood fails it’s because of those who live there. Plain and simple.What funding? And if whites have bad neighborhoods, I don't blame anyone but those whites who created it. I watch the news every night, the neighborhoods with the most crime are not white.Some whites are real funny about declaring what's successful when the success their communities had have is dependent upon government funding from every level. Whites are real good at understanding why their communities have problems but when the same things happen in black communities then the problem turns to blacks/black culture and things like factory closings and economic downturns are ignored. This along with the ability for whites to just "forget" makes these discussions difficult.
Next time someone says, “But Africans sold themselves into slavery!”, send this article to them
EDITOR’S NOTE: The following except from pages 47-50 of Overturning the Culture of Violence, written by Penny Hess, Chairwoman of the African People’s Solidarity Committee and printed by Burning Spear Publications, debunks the cynical and anti-black argument that “Africans enslaved themselves.” This argument points to the presence of Africans who collaborated with the European slave masters and “sold” Africans to them in order to shift the responsibility for the slave trade off the shoulders of the European colonial slavemaster and onto the backs of the colonized and enslaved African.
Today, as the voice of the enslaved African community asserts itself in the world and lifts up the demand for reparations, the blame-shifting “African collaborator” argument can be seen gaining traction in universities and bourgeois historical publications, not as an historical argument but as a political defense against the legitimacy of the reparations demand. As an organization of white people working under the leadership of the African People’s Socialist Party to organize white people in solidarity with the African struggle for liberation and reparations, we in the Uhuru Solidarity Movement find it timely to publish this excerpt here:
HUMAN BONDAGE: Page 47-50, Overturning the Culture of Violence
The terrible impact that slavery has had on the continent of Africa cannot be calculated: the destruction of magnificent civilizations, the break-up of family and kinship circles, the massive depopulation, forced impoverishment, famine and starvation, the ravishing of an environment which had been so conducive to human civilization for millennia. From open, educated, prosperous and democratic societies, African people now lived in sheer terror, never knowing when their village or town would be raided for human loot by these white invaders.
Some North American people cynically place the blame for the enslavement of African people on the shoulders of African collaborators who participated in the kidnapping of their own people. Impacted by the social destruction wreaked by invading Europeans, a tiny minority of the conquered people did find their own survival by participating in this treachery.
The setting up of collaborators among the colonized population has been a successful tool of domination in every instance of European colonialism around the world. Africa is no exception. Europeans attack societies in Africa, Asia, or the Americas, destroying their traditional economies and long-standing social relationships. A unilateral colonial economy, which starves the people and creates the dependency on the colonial power, is militarily enforced.
The European invader gets richer and richer through his bloodsucking relationship, and offers resources, guns and special status to a minority sector of the oppressed population. The selected “elite” or the colony can themselves become enslaved or carry out the will of white power. If they take any stand independent of the colonizer as have, say, Panama’s Noriega or Iraq’s Saddam Hussein in today’s world, white power spares them none of its wrath.
This plan has worked well over the centuries. A few people in every colony have participated in the devious imperialist schemes of slavery, genocide, torture and exploitation of their own people, a collaboration which benefits no one more than the European or North American “mother” country.
The statement that “Africans enslaved their own people” separates out African people from other colonial subjects, all of whom have had their share of betrayal among their ranks. It is a statement of imperialism’s historic need to mobilize public opinion against African people.
Like the general white attitude toward the government-imposed drugs and dependent drug economy in today’s African communities, this statement lets the parasitic colonial economic system off the hook. It is an anti-black expression of unity with the oppression of African people, saying, “They did it to themselves.” Meanwhile all white people everywhere still benefit from the parasitic economic system which has as its foundation the enslavement and continued exploitation of African people.
Most Africans resisted enslavement with all of their energy. Rebellions on slave ships were common. According to one source, “Many deaths on slave journeys across the Atlantic derived from violence, brawls, and above all, rebellions. There was probably at least one insurrection every eight to ten journeys.”
For example, Africans successfully rebelled in 1532 aboard the Portueguese slave ship the Misericordia. The 109 Africans on board “rose and murdered all the crew except for the pilot and two seaman. Those survivors escaped in a longboat. But the Misericordia was never heard of again.”
Slave ship owners often three Africans off the ships just to collect the insurance money. One famous case was that of a ship owned by William Gregson and George Case (both former mayors of Liverpool, England). The captain threw 133 Africans into the sea because if Africans were to die naturally, the owners would lose money, but if the African people were “thrown alive into the sea,” supposedly for the safety of the crew, “it would be the loss of the underwriters.”
So many African people died en route that it has been said that sharks followed slave ships all the way from Africa to the Americas.
Africans who survived the notoriously brutal middle passage, as the Atlantic crossing was known, reached the Americas barely alive. If they were too ill, they were left to die on the shore. They were sold like animals on public auction blocks, naked or in rags, weakened and emaciated, having survived the months below deck with disease and malnutrition, not to mention the emotional ravage sof such an experience. Many Africans committed suicide to avoid enslavement, a practice otherwise unknown in African culture.
White buyers came to the market for slaves, “feeling the Africans’ limbs and bodies much as butchers handled calves. The slaves were often asked, as they had been told to do before leaving Africa, to show their tongues and teeth, or to stretch their arms.”
In the Americas, Africans were “broken in” by submitting them to inhuman terror in an attempt to crush out any resistance. The “breaking” process was psychological as well as physical, and included being forced to learn a version of a European language and to take a European name, something many Africans militantly resisted.
Under the domination of their white slave masters, African people of all ages were branded, women on the breasts. Africans were whipped until they were deeply scarred, and their ears or ear lobes were cut off. People were slashed in the face, and their hands and feet were cut off to prevent them from running away. Men were castrated; women were raped. Women’s babies were cut out of their bellies for “punishment” and any man, woman or child could be forced to wear iron collars on their necks for life.
Under such brutal conditions, normal human relationships between men and woman or parents and children were interrupted and nearly impossible. Mothers were forced to work the full nine months of pregnancy, often giving birth in the field. They were then forced to abandon their children, as they had to keep on working or nurse the children of the slave master.
Next time someone says, "But Africans sold themselves into slavery!", send this article to them
Is That Right ??IM2 said:Some whites are real funny about declaring what's successful when the success their communities had have
is dependent upon government funding from every level.
Could You Be SpecificWhites are real good at understanding why their communities have problems but when the same things happen in black communities then the problem turns to blacks/black culture
Oh, Noand things like factory closings and economic downturns are ignored.
Maybe We Just Buck-It-UpThis along with the ability for whites to just "forget" makes these discussions difficult.
