Then they hypocritically cry "civilians" and "genocide[sic]"

[rylah]

Theodore Herzl said they would have to get rid of the Palestinians to have a Jewish state.

No, that's a lie, Dr. Herzl didn't say that.

But he did envision other nations free
from the yoke of Arab imperialism.

 

[surada]

No, that's a lie, Dr. Herzl didn't say that.

But he did envision other nations free
from the yoke of Arab imperialism.

Yes Herzl did say that. Read his diaries.
and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialism.[13][14][15][16][17][e]

Israel has been accused of major violations of international human rights law, including collective punishment, in its administration of the occupied Palestinian territories.[f]

Israeli settlers and civilians living or traveling through the West Bank are subject to Israeli law, and are represented in the Knesset; in contrast, Palestinian civilians, mostly confined to scattered enclaves, are subject to martial law and are not permitted to vote in Israel's national elections.[g] This two-tiered system has caused Israel to be accused of committing apartheid, a charge that Israel rejects entirely.[23][h][24][25][26] Israel's vast military superiority, with a modern army and air force, compared to the Palestinian use of guerilla and terrorist tactics, has led to accusations of war crimes on both sides, with Israel being accused of disproportionality and the Palestinians accused of indiscriminate attacks.

 

[rylah]

Yes Herzl did say that. Read his diaries.
and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialism.[13][14][15][16][17][e]

Israel has been accused of major violations of international human rights law, including collective punishment, in its administration of the occupied Palestinian territories.[f] Israeli settlers and civilians living or traveling through the West Bank are subject to Israeli law, and are represented in the Knesset; in contrast, Palestinian civilians, mostly confined to scattered enclaves, are subject to martial law and are not permitted to vote in Israel's national elections.[g] This two-tiered system has caused Israel to be accused of committing apartheid, a charge that Israel rejects entirely.[23][h][24][25][26] Israel's vast military superiority, with a modern army and air force, compared to the Palestinian use of guerilla and terrorist tactics, has led to accusations of war crimes on both sides, with Israel being accused of disproportionality and the Palestinians accused of indiscriminate attacks.

Don't change the subject,
you can't quote it,

stop lying.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Theodore Herzl said they would have to get rid of the Palestinians to have a Jewish state.

Lots of people have said lots of things, but when Israel declared its statehood, its declaration of independence stated that

" it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

and

"WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighboring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighborliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East."

And then the Arabs who lived in what was about to become the state of Israel, along with the Arab nations launched what the Arab league said would be a war of extermination against the Jews and have been whining about not being able to kill all the Jews ever since: the Nakba.

The so-called Palestinians have never been the victims, but always the aggressors.

The Avalon Project : Declaration of Israel's Independence 1948

 

[surada]

Don't change the subject,
you can't quote it,

stop lying.

Herzl's diaries are on line . Read them for yourself.

Israeli forces kill eight Palestinians in occupied West Bank raids

Five Palestinians were shot dead in Jenin, while three others were killed elsewhere in the occupied West Bank on Sunday.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Pastelli]

No, that's a lie, Dr. Herzl didn't say that.

But he did envision other nations free
from the yoke of Arab imperialism.

It wouldn't be the first error on Suradas's part.

 

[Lisa558]

Hamas doesn’t care. That’s evident.

What about those shouting for the extermination of the Palestinians? (lots of those here on USMB).

Is there a point at which the cost in innocent lives becomes too high to justify the force being used?

Who here has shouted for the extermination of the Palestinians?

We want them to take advantage of Israel’s opportunity to save themselves. It’s not Israel’s fault that HAMAS is such a deranged terrorist group that they are killing their own people when they try to leave.

What we ARE saying is that HAMAS must be destroyed before they make good on their next threat to repeat Oct 7, and Israel must and will do everything necessary to see that through.

It really is in HAMAS‘ hands. All they have to do is immediately turn over all remaining hostages (what type of monster kidnaps INFANTS?) and surrender to the IDF.

 

[Coyote]

You can.

9 million Jews in Israel.
15 million Jews worldwide.
17 million Jews who should have existed, but don't because of the Holocaust.

I disagree.

Would you measure Palestinian deaths in the same way? Worldwide? I wouldn't. That kind of thinking opens the door to "any means" is ok.

You can't change the past. You can only effect the future and the Palestinians have to be part of that future as well.

When they say they are coming for us a second time, and a third, and a fourth, and again, and again, and will keep coming for us a million times, as many times as necessary, we believe them. That's how you measure the future.

Disagree.

14.3 million Palestinians worldwide who I suspect feel Israel is after them and for those in Palestine, feel Israel wants to exterminate or expel them. Is that how future lives should be measured?

I don't think so. I don't think you can project that.

 

[Coyote]

What resistance to the settlements has demonstrated is the unrelenting policy of "empty of Jews". Whether by ethnic cleansing or by slaughter, there is no wavering on this point. And do not @ me that Jews or Israelis want the same thing. There are 2 million proofs against it in Israeli-controlled territories, and none - ZERO - as counter-proof in Arab-controlled territories.

That is a convenient way to excuse what has long been Israeli pomicy regarding solidifying its control of it's occupied territory and is a substantial negation of a two state solution.

Ethnic cleansing? So it is ok because the other side does it? is that your logic?

 

[Coyote]

Who here has shouted for the extermination of the Palestinians?

You really need to read some of the posts here even you you have supported mass expulsions.

I do however agree with what you said about Hamas.

 

[Coyote]

There are two things that I am WAY done with in the aftermath of the atrocity that occurred on October 7.

The first is trying to draw a moral equivalence between "but Israel denies them po-ta-to chips" and roasting infants alive in ovens.

That is a seriously dishonest comparison.

The second is the idea that the people of Gaza have a choice between committing unspeakable atrocities or sitting helplessly and waiting for someone to kill them as though there are no other options.

You ard collectively assigning blame and responsibility to the entire population.

That is the logic terrorists use when they justify attacking civilians!

Most Palestinians are not committing atrocities, they just want to live. Hamas has a reputation for killing and torturing informers, dissenters etc and their families. israel has sustematically weakened the PA and unintentionally strengthened Hamas, while gobbling up land with it's settlement policy and is now openly allowing settler violence on the WB...regardless of how peaceful or violent they Palestinians are. What exact options do they that they should choose? I am not saying they are entirely helpless or free from the consequences of their own choices, but you keep sripping aeay Israel's actions that are directly provocative.

 

[surada]

It wouldn't be the first error on Suradas's part.

Israel's attacks on the Gaza Strip since Oct. 7 have killed more than 9,000 people, 70% of them women and children, according to Palestinian health officials. Nearly 200,000 homes have been destroyed.

 

[Lisa558]

That is a convenient way to excuse what has long been Israeli pomicy regarding solidifying its control of it's occupied territory and is a substantial negation of a two state solution.

Ethnic cleansing? So it is ok because the other side does it? is that your logic?

The only side ever guilty of ethnic cleansing are the Arabs.

 

[Lisa558]

You really need to read some of the posts here even you you have supported mass expulsions.

I do however agree with what you said about Hamas.

Changing the goalposts. You accused people of extermination. The only people calling for extermination of an entire people are the Arabs of the Jews.

And yes, after the Oct 7th massacre, which 75% of “Palestinians” support, it’s clear that Israel is not safe having them in such proximity. The Gazans need to go to Egypt, but Egypt doesn’t want them. So why should Israel be stuck with people who applaud and cheer on the death extermination of Jews?

 

[Lisa558]

That is a seriously dishonest comparison.



You ard collectively assigning blame and responsibility to the entire population.

That is the logic terrorists use when they justify attacking civilians!

Most Palestinians are not committing atrocities, they just want to live. Hamas has a reputation for killing and torturing informers, dissenters etc and their families. israel has sustematically weakened the PA and unintentionally strengthened Hamas, while gobbling up land with it's settlement policy and is now openly allowing settler violence on the WB...regardless of how peaceful or violent they Palestinians are. What exact options do they that they should choose? I am not saying they are entirely helpless or free from the consequences of their own choices, but you keep sripping aeay Israel's actions that are directly provocative.

You keep siding with the Palestinians, but you said you agree with what I said about HAMAS. That would mean you agree that the deaths of Palestinian civilians is in the hands of the Muslim savages, and this all could end tonight if they just return all hostages and surrender themselves to Israel.

 

[luiza]

92% of Ashkenazis haven't a drop of Semite blood in their genome .
Let's call it the Bull Shite Nation

QUOTE :-Ashkenazi Jews are not Semitic and have no roots in Palestine.
So if Jews are neither a race nor Semitic , what is it that bonds them together?
The answer is an extreme form of tribal ethnocentrism , AKA, racism.
In short, Jews are not a race but Jewish secular culture is racist to the bone.

Doubt that will go down well with the Cognitively Rigid

 

[Coyote]

Changing the goalposts. You accused people of extermination. The only people calling for extermination of an entire people are the Arabs of the Jews.

Again. Read some of the posts here. How is that changing goal posts?

And how about members of Israel's current government, calling for Gaza to be nuked? And he's not alone in expressing su h sentiments.

If Arabs are for extermination of Jews, why are so many involved in normalizing relations with Israel? What is upsetting so many is the hugely disproportionate civilian death toll in Gaza.

And yes, after the Oct 7th massacre, which 75% of “Palestinians” support,

You realize that poll occurred just recently, after over 18,000 Gazans 6,000 children have been killed in Gaza?

You think that might effect public opinion?

it’s clear that Israel is not safe having them in such proximity. The Gazans need to go to Egypt, but Egypt doesn’t want them. So why should Israel be stuck with people who applaud and cheer on the death extermination of Jews?

Ethnic cleansing.

 

[Coyote]

You keep siding with the Palestinians, but you said you agree with what I said about HAMAS. That would mean you agree that the deaths of Palestinian civilians is in the hands of the Muslim savages, and this all could end tonight if they just return all hostages and surrender themselves to Israel.

No.

It means Hamas is directly responsible for initiating this conflict AND has a direct responsibility for civilian casualties due to what it did (knowing Israel would have to react strongly and the fact it embeds itself in civilian infrastructure).

But that doesn't absolve Israel's responsibility to use proportionate force and minimize civilian casualties and not exact collective punishment.

It would not end if Hamas surrendered because that wouldn't address the underlying issues rhat led up to this (on both sides). Also, appsrently, there are multiple militia groups holding hostages and no one knows where they are or what condition they are in.

 

[MJB12741]

Again. Read some of the posts here. How is that changing goal posts?

And how about members of Israel's current government, calling for Gaza to be nuked? And he's not alone in expressing su h sentiments.

If Arabs are for extermination of Jews, why are so many involved in normalizing relations with Israel? What is upsetting so many is the hugely disproportionate civilian death toll in Gaza.







You realize that poll occurred just recently, after over 18,000 Gazans 6,000 children have been killed in Gaza?

You think that might effect public opinion?

Ethnic cleansing.

Start a war. You pay the consequences. Oh how Palestinians cheered & celebrated when Hamas attacked Israel without any warning killing around 1200 or more Israeli's & visitors while also taking over 200 hostages. I suspect they are not celebrating it now.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I disagree.

Would you measure Palestinian deaths in the same way? Worldwide? I wouldn't. That kind of thinking opens the door to "any means" is ok.

You can't change the past. You can only effect the future and the Palestinians have to be part of that future as well.








Disagree.

14.3 million Palestinians worldwide who I suspect feel Israel is after them and for those in Palestine, feel Israel wants to exterminate or expel them. Is that how future lives should be measured?

I don't think so. I don't think you can project that.

What is wrong with you? For over 100 years, right down to today, the Palestinians have been actively and openly trying to exterminate or expel the Jews, and now in your twisted imagination it's the Jews who are trying to do that to the Palestinians.