This is your moment, Mr. President

[The Great Goose]

Well Marc, you're never going to resolve things or make a difference if you're not willing to interact with others, especially those who disagree with you. Whatever problem it is you have with me, it's not changing the fact that you really don't have any solution here. You seem to just want to brow-beat white society for your perceptions of injustice... and maybe in some of those cases, you have a legitimate complaint... but what is the solution?

I don't think the solution is to bark racism at everything that passes in the night. I think that does more to hurt the cause of combating real racism than it does to help. We certainly can't stand for incidents like Dallas. We have to somehow get back to the message of Dr. King and search our hearts. We have to teach love and understanding and not hate an divisiveness.

OK, you got my attention.

I wouldn't characterize my position as always wanting to brow-beat white society.

Nor do I always see racism everywhere, however, I do see it in a lot of places.

Should I characterize you as NEVER seeing racism anywhere?

Malcolm X stood firm, he was killed.

MLK tried to let them beat him, and shame them to decency, but he was also killed.

What do we try next?

killing seems effective.

 

[gipper]

There has never been an American President with the background, the capacity, the experience and the skill set to take race head on like you, President Obama. Not even close, not within a million miles.

This country needs a leader who can step forward, and with calm and compassion and legitimacy, inspire Americans on all sides of this to look in the mirror and commit to cleaning their own house. You're the obvious person to do this.

This would mean some significant political risk, no doubt about it. Part of this would mean challenging a key Democratic constituency in a way it has never been challenged before.

This isn't about ability. You have that. The question is whether you can ignore the political implications.

It would be the most important and valuable legacy you could possibly leave.
.

You are dreaming.

,,


I tend to agree.

It's too late in Obama's game to change his arrogant and selfish attitude.

He doesn't have it in him, unfortunately he is not that kind of conciliatory leader.

The future of America doesn't worry him, never has never will.

From his mouth has only come hatred and division and that will be his only legacy.

My fear is he is going to double down on his hatred and racism. If he continues to demonize cops and push gun control, he will only make matters worse.

It is almost as if he wants to tear the nation apart...could it be he wants a race war in America?

I think he does want a race war in America, but I hope and pray Americans from all race,creed and color will NOT fall for that.

Then on the other hand...... he has poisoned the well so much .....who knows what will happen.

Yes he has poisoned the well...that phrase fits him perfectly. Unfortunately, there are too many dumb and duped Americans who can't see the truth of this.

 

[rightwinger]

There has never been an American President with the background, the capacity, the experience and the skill set to take race head on like you, President Obama. Not even close, not within a million miles.

This country needs a leader who can step forward, and with calm and compassion and legitimacy, inspire Americans on all sides of this to look in the mirror and commit to cleaning their own house. You're the obvious person to do this.

This would mean some significant political risk, no doubt about it. Part of this would mean challenging a key Democratic constituency in a way it has never been challenged before.

This isn't about ability. You have that. The question is whether you can ignore the political implications.

It would be the most important and valuable legacy you could possibly leave.
.

You are dreaming.

,,


I tend to agree.

It's too late in Obama's game to change his arrogant and selfish attitude.

He doesn't have it in him, unfortunately he is not that kind of conciliatory leader.

The future of America doesn't worry him, never has never will.

From his mouth has only come hatred and division and that will be his only legacy.

My fear is he is going to double down on his hatred and racism. If he continues to demonize cops and push gun control, he will only make matters worse.

It is almost as if he wants to tear the nation apart...could it be he wants a race war in America?

I think he does want a race war in America, but I hope and pray Americans from all race,creed and color will NOT fall for that.

Then on the other hand...... he has poisoned the well so much .....who knows what will happen.

Helter Skelter is coming

 

[Boss]

When we live in a society of mostly whites with lots of advantage it becomes quite burdensome to live w/the inherent biases you just pointed out.

I'm curious to know when you think civil disobedience and protest is warranted.

Considering that our government tapped the phones of both MLK and Minister Malcolm X, in order to track, co-erce, infiltrate, and otherwise stymie their movements, amongst other things,it's not so much of a stretch for one to say or believe that "white society" (which I never said) killed them (or had something to do w/killing them).

All kinds of people endure living with inherent bias every day. Women, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Southerners, Gays, obese people, Polish people... the list goes on and on. Whatever our burden is, it's not a burden unless we make it one. We have to rise above that and get satisfaction in proving stereotypes wrong. Turn our burdens into strengths.

I can't really answer your question as to when civil disobedience is in order, it depends on the situation. When a clear injustice has occurred, I would say. But that's more than a myopic one-sided view. And civil disobedience isn't mowing down cops or celebrating such a thing. That has to be rejected by civil society in no uncertain terms.

As for the MLK/Malcom X thing... I get what you're saying but it's no different than people running around today blaming Dallas on Obama and BLM. It's a tragedy that happened due to a lone individual or individuals with hate in their hearts. We can't blame that on a whole segment of society, we have to keep it in perspective and find a way to heal the wounds.

Again... LOVE is the answer, not hate and anger.

 

[The Great Goose]

When we live in a society of mostly whites with lots of advantage it becomes quite burdensome to live w/the inherent biases you just pointed out.

I'm curious to know when you think civil disobedience and protest is warranted.

Considering that our government tapped the phones of both MLK and Minister Malcolm X, in order to track, co-erce, infiltrate, and otherwise stymie their movements, amongst other things,it's not so much of a stretch for one to say or believe that "white society" (which I never said) killed them (or had something to do w/killing them).

All kinds of people endure living with inherent bias every day. Women, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Southerners, Gays, obese people, Polish people... the list goes on and on. Whatever our burden is, it's not a burden unless we make it one. We have to rise above that and get satisfaction in proving stereotypes wrong. Turn our burdens into strengths.

I can't really answer your question as to when civil disobedience is in order, it depends on the situation. When a clear injustice has occurred, I would say. But that's more than a myopic one-sided view. And civil disobedience isn't mowing down cops or celebrating such a thing. That has to be rejected by civil society in no uncertain terms.

As for the MLK/Malcom X thing... I get what you're saying but it's no different than people running around today blaming Dallas on Obama and BLM. It's a tragedy that happened due to a lone individual or individuals with hate in their hearts. We can't blame that on a whole segment of society, we have to keep it in perspective and find a way to heal the wounds.

Again... LOVE is the answer, not hate and anger.

none of those groups have bias against them every day, except obese people.

you stupid dingbat.

 

[JoeB131]

I realize this Joe! And like you, I would like to see it stop.

BUT! When you categorize law abiding citizens with those who commit these crimes then you will not get much cooperation from any of us.

There is a problem. I am not it.

So. Change your attitude or you can go FUCK yourself.

Uh, yeah, you are the problem.

If it was too easy for guys like Johnson and Mateen and Lanza and Roof to get guns, it's because you made it too easy for them to get guns. Because you kept insisting gun ownership was a right and they had a right to use them to settle their greivances against the world.

 

[BlueGin]

Could be. It wouldn't be the first time.

But tell me this: Let's say he did what I suggest, he comes out and nails it. Would you feel an obligation to challenge yourself and people on your side of the spectrum to look inward, clean your own house, stop pointing fingers until there is no fault from the Right?

I'm not getting personal here. I'm just being general.

NO.

THe failure of the Left and the President, does not mean that there is an equal and opposite failure on our part on the Right.

The problem with the right is there shouldn't be any left or right on this issue. And, that's why Newt is correct. It's unfortunate Trump isn't up to the job.

The partisan divide is a huge part of this issue.

The Left has been fanning the flames of racial division for decades.

Ignoring that is the BEST way of making sure that we continue down the path of ever greater racial strife.

Obama should resign for what he caused in Dallas. I know...I'm dreaming.

He likely will make race relations worse leading to more deaths.

I am glad no one in my family is a cop. BO has thrown all cops under the bus. He is a cheer leader for Black Lives Matter, a terrorist group. What a president!!!

Black Lives Matter is not a terrorist group.

Sure it is. Founder is a cop killer

 

[NYcarbineer]

NO.

THe failure of the Left and the President, does not mean that there is an equal and opposite failure on our part on the Right.

The problem with the right is there shouldn't be any left or right on this issue. And, that's why Newt is correct. It's unfortunate Trump isn't up to the job.

The partisan divide is a huge part of this issue.

The Left has been fanning the flames of racial division for decades.

Ignoring that is the BEST way of making sure that we continue down the path of ever greater racial strife.

Obama should resign for what he caused in Dallas. I know...I'm dreaming.

He likely will make race relations worse leading to more deaths.

I am glad no one in my family is a cop. BO has thrown all cops under the bus. He is a cheer leader for Black Lives Matter, a terrorist group. What a president!!!

Black Lives Matter is not a terrorist group.

Sure it is. Founder is a cop killer

Blame the innocent.

 

[Boss]

When we live in a society of mostly whites with lots of advantage it becomes quite burdensome to live w/the inherent biases you just pointed out.

I'm curious to know when you think civil disobedience and protest is warranted.

Considering that our government tapped the phones of both MLK and Minister Malcolm X, in order to track, co-erce, infiltrate, and otherwise stymie their movements, amongst other things,it's not so much of a stretch for one to say or believe that "white society" (which I never said) killed them (or had something to do w/killing them).

All kinds of people endure living with inherent bias every day. Women, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Southerners, Gays, obese people, Polish people... the list goes on and on. Whatever our burden is, it's not a burden unless we make it one. We have to rise above that and get satisfaction in proving stereotypes wrong. Turn our burdens into strengths.

I can't really answer your question as to when civil disobedience is in order, it depends on the situation. When a clear injustice has occurred, I would say. But that's more than a myopic one-sided view. And civil disobedience isn't mowing down cops or celebrating such a thing. That has to be rejected by civil society in no uncertain terms.

As for the MLK/Malcom X thing... I get what you're saying but it's no different than people running around today blaming Dallas on Obama and BLM. It's a tragedy that happened due to a lone individual or individuals with hate in their hearts. We can't blame that on a whole segment of society, we have to keep it in perspective and find a way to heal the wounds.

Again... LOVE is the answer, not hate and anger.

none of those groups have bias against them every day, except obese people.

you stupid dingbat.

I think you are indifferent to the bias others face because you don't walk in their shoes. They certainly DO face bias and prejudice every single day. It's a fucking pastime here to bash and trash Jews and Christians with impunity on a regular basis... you don't think that is a bias? Lay down your crack pipe and pay attention to the world around you. That's all I can say to that.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Implicit Bias...such an interesting topic. Here is a simple test that you can take if you'd like to "look in the mirror" for a moment.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

Enjoy.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

I realize this Joe! And like you, I would like to see it stop.

BUT! When you categorize law abiding citizens with those who commit these crimes then you will not get much cooperation from any of us.

There is a problem. I am not it.

So. Change your attitude or you can go FUCK yourself.

Uh, yeah, you are the problem.

If it was too easy for guys like Johnson and Mateen and Lanza and Roof to get guns, it's because you made it too easy for them to get guns. Because you kept insisting gun ownership was a right and they had a right to use them to settle their greivances against the world.

Uh, yeah right. Whatever you say.

Gun ownership is a right and always have been. Their use of firearms has nothing to do with me.

 

[JoeB131]

I think you are indifferent to the bias others face because you don't walk in their shoes. They certainly DO face bias and prejudice every single day. It's a fucking pastime here to bash and trash Jews and Christians with impunity on a regular basis... you don't think that is a bias? Lay down your crack pipe and pay attention to the world around you. That's all I can say to that.

so you are really claiming someone doubting your Imaginary Sky Pixie exists is the VERY SAME as being routinely harrassed by the police and denied jobs on the basis of your skin color?

Really?

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, yeah right. Whatever you say.

Gun ownership is a right and always have been. Their use of firearms has nothing to do with me.

then you won't have a problem with tighter laws to keep THEM from getting guns, then?

 

[Boss]

so you are really claiming someone doubting your Imaginary Sky Pixie exists is the VERY SAME as being routinely harrassed by the police and denied jobs on the basis of your skin color?

Really?

Yep... I think it is an intentional bias and prejudice faced by every Christian. (I am not a Christian, btw)

 

[Yousaidwhat]

Uh, yeah right. Whatever you say.

Gun ownership is a right and always have been. Their use of firearms has nothing to do with me.

then you won't have a problem with tighter laws to keep THEM from getting guns, then?

Sure. As long as it doesn't affect my rights.

 

[Boss]

...and denied jobs on the basis of your skin color?

A Federal crime for the past 50 years in America, punishable by law and easily prosecuted free of charge by the ACLU. In other words, a STRAW MAN argument.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Yep... I think it is an intentional bias and prejudice faced by every Christian. (I am not a Christian, btw)

I've never seen anyone pulled over for being a Christian. Even when they've got those stupid Jesus Fish on their bumpers.

I've never seen anyone fired from their jobs for being a Christian. Even when they annoy the shit out of me reciting scripture at lunch.

But I've seen people pulled over for being black and I've seen people fired because they were minorities and gay.

You need to get the fuck over yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

A Federal crime for the past 50 years in America, punishable by law and easily prosecuted free of charge by the ACLU. In other words, a STRAW MAN argument.

Right. And how many prosecutions have there been in the last 10 years for this?

Or do you think it's just a coincidence the black unemployment rate is three times what it is for white people?

 

[Correll]

You are dreaming.

Could be. It wouldn't be the first time.

But tell me this: Let's say he did what I suggest, he comes out and nails it. Would you feel an obligation to challenge yourself and people on your side of the spectrum to look inward, clean your own house, stop pointing fingers until there is no fault from the Right?

I'm not getting personal here. I'm just being general.

NO.

THe failure of the Left and the President, does not mean that there is an equal and opposite failure on our part on the Right.

Do you feel, then, that there's nothing the Right can do to improve its behaviors regarding race and race relations?

Earlier in this thread it was said that racism is a myth (and I mean the regular white-on-black form). Would you agree with that?
.

I feel that if we try to address the subject of Race in politics, and we try to make it a "bi-partisan" solution that that "muddle the waters", and hide the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of that problem is on the Left.

And we will end up NOT making any progress.


The Right is NOT using Race EVERY SINGLE DAY to inflame it's base(s).

The RIGHT is NOT using Race EVERY SINGLE DAY to unjustly smear it's enemies.

The RIGHT does NOT have a RACE BASED PLAN FOR A DEFACTO ONE PARTY STATE.

THat is all the LEFT and that is what is tearing this nation apart.


What on the right is worthy of being mentioned in the same thread as the above points?

SOme supposed "Code Words"? lol!!!

 

[Correll]

I think you are indifferent to the bias others face because you don't walk in their shoes. They certainly DO face bias and prejudice every single day. It's a fucking pastime here to bash and trash Jews and Christians with impunity on a regular basis... you don't think that is a bias? Lay down your crack pipe and pay attention to the world around you. That's all I can say to that.

so you are really claiming someone doubting your Imaginary Sky Pixie exists is the VERY SAME as being routinely harrassed by the police and denied jobs on the basis of your skin color?

Really?

He is claiming that being harress because of your religious beliefs is just like being harassed because of your skin color.

HIs point was very clear.

It is not credible that you did not understand that.