This warm winter we're having

[frigidweirdo]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

Because people go out and fight their side and just want to win. How many people actually want to find out the truth? Not many.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And just a minor correction, the Arctic Oscillation rotates in the same direction regardless of the pressure gradient. Same principles otherwise apply.

 

[Crick]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

 

[TemplarKormac]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

 

[Muhammed]

Well now, looks like Gore won. Essentially all the nations that count stated that he was correct, and the issue had to be addressed. Leaving fools like you looking even more ignorant than usual.

Informal fallacy.

Argumentum ad Populum

 

[flacaltenn]

"Over North America, this winter will definitely not be normal. However, the climatic events of the past decade make 'normal' difficult to define," Patzert told the Earth Observatory.


Upcoming El Niño May Be As Wild As 1997 Event

From the article you posted. The events of the past decade make "normal" hard to define. As in a changing climate. Surely did not prove what ever it is that you are trying to prove.

Normal definitely does not mean that no records get set. Not for temperature, or hurricanes or floods. Records happen all the time in a NORMAL climate. It's part of the statistical distribution of events in the natural variation.

We have no concept of "natural variation" on CLIMATIC timescales, because there is no means of measuring climate variability on those timescales that would INDICATE whether a 0.6degC rise in a lifetime is within that variability.

Now you've (O-Rocks) been told (brainwashed) into thinking that flat-ass hockey stick graphs or 200K year ice core studies are an indication of almost NO climate variability on a decadal or even centennial scale. But they are not..

I'll grant you -- just because we don't know -- doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned. But the lemming march is so adamant about screwing with the world economy and investing in half ass alternatives that will NOT replace the energy structure that we currently have. And you have the chief movement gurus at the UN ADMITTING that this is mostly a political opportunity, not an environmental crisis. And they are correct.

 

[Muhammed]

The fact of the matter is that the Earth's climate has been on a long-term cooling trend for billions of years.

Silly ass, learn something before you spout nonsense. There have been a couple of cooling periods that make the present glacial periods look positively warm. They were called snowball earths.

That's short term variability. I'm talking about the long term trend, obviously.

The fact of the matter is that you can say the Earth is cooling and be correct.

Another relevant fact is that all climate change is natural.

God, you are dumb. The present glacial cycle is hardly a permanent one, and in the coming billions of years, the sun will be getting warmer, as will the earth. But that is irrevelant, because, as Homo Sap, we have been around only about 200,000 years, and probably won't be around another 200,000. More than likely supplanted by something better, our own descendants.

However, our present civilization will be easily disrupted by the affects of a very fast warming, and that is what waits for us in the future.

You've got it ass-backwards. Warmer periods are associated with advances in civilization. Cool periods are associated with the downfall of civilizations.

A particularly cold period in the Little Ice Age began in about 1770. So you are saying that the events in North America in 1776 represent the downfall of civilization. Damn, you fellows are stupid.

Let them eat cake.

 

[Muhammed]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

There is no proof of that whatsoever.

 

[flacaltenn]

How come you deniers cannot produce one single solitary Peer reviewed study proving that there is no Global warming ...

You've gotten the answer to this one before.. Way before you've spammed it again for 27 times.
The answer is --- There ARE NONE.. Because there are NO (ZERO) NADA skeptics contending that we have NOT measured a small warming blip since we've been able to keep accurate records..

That's not the debate. That's not what skeptics are rejecting. They are rejecting the FANTASTICAL projections of doom and the scary scenarios that come --- NOT FROM CO2 Emissions themselves -- but by the magic of poorly understood "multipliers and feedback loops" -- which in my mind and the Skeptical minds are a LONG WAY from being proven..

Get it? Got it??? Good.. Now get OVER it...

 

[flacaltenn]

The PHONEY consensus is based on silly questions like the Slothrop asks.. Like it is WARMING? That's not the scientific debate on Global Warming. THe DEBATE is all over the PUBLISHED PEER LITERATURE.. In stuff that the Slothrop has never seen and never would understand.

Like for instance --- There is a much more SKEPTICAL VIEW of the climate sensitivity numbers NOW than there was in 1988 when folks told us we were doomed. These are the "magical multipliers" that take the NATURAL power of CO2 to warm the surface and propose a multiplicative factor on TOP of it..

They have gone in the literature from 6 and 8 --- now down to 2s and 4s at the HIGHEST. Which means those "early projections" were off by a factor of at LEAST 2..

Skeptics WON that one. And the climate models based on those assumptions failed badly. And that debate HAS NO FUCKING CONSENSUS even today. And it's all carried out quietly in "peer reviewed" publications. Maybe the SlothRop should read a few. They are really not hard to comprehend.

Only folks not invested in following the REAL science on this issue talk about consensus as tho the questions for the "consensus" had any importance.

 

[flacaltenn]

Moderation "Suggestion":

Here's the deal. We don't care if the basic "consensus" is discussed on Global Warming. It is encouraged.
As many times as it NEEDS to be discussed.. But every thread topic cannot end up looking like all the others.

What we've done in other forums is --- instead of trying to control "ON-TOPIC" debate in Zone2 threads --- we've simply LIFTED pages of "off-topic" discussion and started NEW threads with them. Perhaps it's time to do this in this forum.

If you'd like to comment on doing that -- rather than warning and yelling at folks to get back "on-topic" --- PM me and we'll have an open discussion on how to fix this..

In the meantime --- PLEASE stay on the original topic of this thread.. It's supposed to be DIFFERENT from any others in this forum..

Thanks..

 

[BULLDOG]

I've been hearing this nonsense about how "global warming" is causing this abnormally warm winter we're having all across the Eastern US right now. So, I'm about to drop some basic climatology on the the unsuspecting. Don't blame me if your political biases get in the way of understanding what I'm about to lay down. Google is your friend. From this point forward, I will not be accommodating the closely held religious beliefs of The Church of Sanders, who believe climate change is linked to global terrorism.

So, let's just put it like this. Two events are playing critical roles (one lesser, the other greater) in the record winter warmth in the Eastern United States right now. None of which have to do with "climate change."

The lesser factor is the monster El Nino event happening currently, the greater factor is what's known as the AO, or the Arctic Oscillation. Namely the AO at the North Pole. The Arctic Oscillation determines basically how far south the polar air from the North Pole will go in the Northern Hemisphere. To see what an AO looks like, see below:

Now, there's a positive AO phase (or low pressure that circulates counter-clockwise at the North Pole, which as it does so, pulls in and contains most of the Arctic air near and around the pole), and a negative AO phase (where there is high pressure that circulates clockwise at the North Pole, which as it does so, tends to push out and evacuate the cold polar air further south). In short, the AO is what we call a "polar vortex."

Simply put, an abnormally positive phase of the Arctic Oscillation is pulling more cold air northward towards the pole, which does not allow any cold air to amass in the east US and travel south. This is only amplified by the El Nino effect shunting the polar jet stream far to the north, hence no cold air in the eastern portion of the US. These two events are synergizing with one another to intensify the warmth we're feeling now.

Keep in mind that the abnormally intense winter in January 2014 was due to a very strong negative AO phase which pushed the polar vortex even further south than normal and nuked most of the US with snow and abnormally cold temperatures.

I've taken a crash course in Climatology a la Google for the past two and a half hours, and I can't help but chuckle at all the people blaming this on "climate change" or "global warming" when in fact all it is is the simple machinations of weather patterns.

Global Warming Isn’t Really to Blame for This Crazy Warm Weather. So Enjoy It!

Climate Change Plays 'Fairly Insignificant' Role In Current Warm Weather

Global warming? I think not. Merry Christmas!

It's a shame that you weren't there to correct the nearly 200 countries who just decided, as a group that what you say is wrong. I'm sure they would have discounted all the experts that they consulted in favor of the thoughts of some anonymous right wing kid in his mothers basement with no real education other than what he heard from crazy politicians paid for by oil companies.

Oh and where are the commercials, where is the billboards might be?

Only in your mental masturbation mind...

What do commercials or billboards have to do with anything?

 

[frigidweirdo]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

The logic seems to be that if there isn't 100% evidence of something then there is 0% and therefore we should ignore.

 

[BULLDOG]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

Because people go out and fight their side and just want to win. How many people actually want to find out the truth? Not many.

Sure, lots of people want only the truth. That's why every major country in the world believes that human actions are a preventable cause of climate change. The right wing in the US is the only group who believes differently.Why is that?

 

[frigidweirdo]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

Because people go out and fight their side and just want to win. How many people actually want to find out the truth? Not many.

Sure, lots of people want only the truth. That's why every major country in the world believes that human actions are a preventable cause of climate change. The right wing in the US is the only group who believes differently.Why is that?

It's hardly just the right in the US, it's the right in a lot of places.

 

[Iceweasel]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

The logic seems to be that if there isn't 100% evidence of something then there is 0% and therefore we should ignore.

No one said that, it's you who are being polemic. Look, if you Warmers are serious, shut your computers down and quit wasting energy. Or keep spaming the board with the same thing and be hypocrites.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here is the problem for you, Mr. Flacaltenn. You stated no more than one degree for a doubling of CO2. That would be 560 ppm. Yet here we are, at just over 400 ppm, and we are going to hit a one degree increase this year. And, likely, next year, also. So, what happened?

 

[frigidweirdo]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

The logic seems to be that if there isn't 100% evidence of something then there is 0% and therefore we should ignore.

No one said that, it's you who are being polemic. Look, if you Warmers are serious, shut your computers down and quit wasting energy. Or keep spaming the board with the same thing and be hypocrites.

Ah, the old "shut up" argument. Wow, it's not new and not clever either.

 

[Iceweasel]

the point is that local weather isn't global weather.

At least you get it.

So, answer me this. We have the warmest winter on record here in the US, but instead of the weather patterns I discussed being the cause, the overall warm winter in the US is somehow being used by other people as an indicator of "global warming."

Why?

What's being used as evidence of global warming, particularly that there has been no pause, is that 2015, GLOBALLY, has been the warmest year on record, as have damn near every year since the 1998 el Nino when deniers claim warming stopped.

The logic seems to be that if there isn't 100% evidence of something then there is 0% and therefore we should ignore.

No one said that, it's you who are being polemic. Look, if you Warmers are serious, shut your computers down and quit wasting energy. Or keep spaming the board with the same thing and be hypocrites.

Ah, the old "shut up" argument. Wow, it's not new and not clever either.

I didn't say it was new or clever. But you took the energy to make yet another useless post. Hypocrite.

 

[Crick]

It's hardly just the right in the US, it's the right in a lot of places.

AGW is much more widely accepted in Europe, Asia and Africa (at least among those who are aware of the question), even among the right wing. The political split is predominantly an American development.