Tired of not-winning? ... Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter

[toomuchtime_]

The feces has hit the fan at tax refund time as low and middle-class Americans are finding that Trump has his hand in their pocket and has stolen money from their refunds.

The wealthy are still doing just fine. The lies about the Trump tax cuts is now exposed that the low and middle class are financing the tax cuts for the wealthy people and corporations.

Donald Trump won't be able to spin his way out of the tax cut lie.

Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter | HuffPost

What does this have to do with Trump?

The amount of your refund, is determined by how much you over pay. If you WANT a refund, you just jack up your with-holdings. How dumb is that? I want to be poorer all year long... so I can get a check back from the government?

Hey idiot.... put your money in a savings account, and at the end of the year, you'll have the same amount of money in that account, that you would have had in a refund... except with interest.

And if you have an emergency during the year, you could use it.

Trump has nothing to do with how stupid you are in giving too much money to the government. Dumbest thing in the world....

"I'm mad at Trump because I didn't over pay all year long! It's all his fault I wasn't poorer the entire year!"

Are you a moron? Oh... right... your worse than a moron... you are a Democrap.

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Like it shoulda been a shock that a man who breaths lies....lied about this. He has many more lies planned to screw middle America.

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

The withholding tables were not put in place by Congress. That was the Treasury Department.

In conformance with the tax reforms passed by Congress.

 

[busybee01]

It is mostly because of the limited state and local tax deduction. Last year I was able to deduct $13k but this year the limit is $10k. That being said I also paid a lower tax rate and get a $1.6k child tax credit per child. I ll be doing my taxes next week and see where I come out. What Trump did do was punish the blue states. Where the state and local and RE taxes were super high...like $50k vs my $13k and people used that to lower their Federal Tax burden. This really is a tax on the rich, that the Democrats wanted. I am not sure what they are complaining about.

Another good point re state and local taxes; why give them a Federal tax deduction? They can vote themselves major tax deductions in their own states. No reason for everybody else to help finance their local and state spending, especially states like California and New York. California capped their real estates taxes, a major welfare subsidy for the wealthy, leaving the lower income brackets to make up the difference, and of course their high payroll taxes are ridiculous.

Because it is wrong to require people to pay taxes on taxes. Also California and New York have higher per capita incomes and a higher cost of living. Also states like California and New York get less from the federal government than they pay in taxes while red states get more than they pay in taxes.

 

[busybee01]

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

Nah we will just blame the whole party since that was their campaign slogan.

you will do that regardless of any facts, we all know what you are.

They shouldn't let their mouths write checks their ass can't cash...

The Art if the Steal

Nothing new since Reagan did the same and I bet Trump gets reelected because the Democratic Party candidates will be useless and weak.

President Reagan's plan was a bipartisan agreement WITH Democrat support. It was not a attack on red states. It also took away tax breaks for the rich as well. It was completely different from Trump and the Republican plan.

 

[Moonglow]

Nah we will just blame the whole party since that was their campaign slogan.

you will do that regardless of any facts, we all know what you are.

They shouldn't let their mouths write checks their ass can't cash...

The Art if the Steal

Nothing new since Reagan did the same and I bet Trump gets reelected because the Democratic Party candidates will be useless and weak.

President Reagan's plan was a bipartisan agreement WITH Democrat support. It was not a attack on red states. It also took away tax breaks for the rich as well. It was completely different from Trump and the Republican plan.

And had the same effect on taxes for me.

 

[busybee01]

The feces has hit the fan at tax refund time as low and middle-class Americans are finding that Trump has his hand in their pocket and has stolen money from their refunds.

The wealthy are still doing just fine. The lies about the Trump tax cuts is now exposed that the low and middle class are financing the tax cuts for the wealthy people and corporations.

Donald Trump won't be able to spin his way out of the tax cut lie.

Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter | HuffPost

What does this have to do with Trump?

The amount of your refund, is determined by how much you over pay. If you WANT a refund, you just jack up your with-holdings. How dumb is that? I want to be poorer all year long... so I can get a check back from the government?

Hey idiot.... put your money in a savings account, and at the end of the year, you'll have the same amount of money in that account, that you would have had in a refund... except with interest.

And if you have an emergency during the year, you could use it.

Trump has nothing to do with how stupid you are in giving too much money to the government. Dumbest thing in the world....

"I'm mad at Trump because I didn't over pay all year long! It's all his fault I wasn't poorer the entire year!"

Are you a moron? Oh... right... your worse than a moron... you are a Democrap.

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Only a fucking moron depends on their tax return

No one is relying on their tax return. However they may have plans for the tax return.

Again, that would make you a moron.

If your budget and life plans, are centered around a tax return... that makes you an idiot.

If you are telling me, that you are blowing money, based on a tax return, because you are assuming money is coming from the government... you are a moron.

You are the only moron I see.

People base the tax refunds to buy something nice for themselves or something else. They are not idiots and that is hardly blowing money. Your disdain for ordinary Americans is noted.

 

[Andylusion]

Trump needs the missing taxpayer refund money to bolster his wealth which is sagging like his ass and jowls.

Apparently, you enjoy embarrassing yourself.

That's funny, coming from a Trump supporter. Everything you voted for is a lie.

The tax cuts are shit, there's no great job waiting for you, coal is not coming back, the Koreans have doubled their nuclear capacity, and there will be no wall.

I got a nice refund, I got a new job at twice the salary and was promoted twice in 2018, coal is coming back because we are selling it to China, the North Koreans have firecrackers, and the wall is being built.

Why do you lie?

The wall will never be built. NK was never a threat to the US. Coal will never come back. It will remain a small part of energy production.

If we had dealt with Hitler when he violated the treaty and went into the Rhineland, there would never have been a world war 2.

It was because people had the attitude that you just promoted, that directly caused world war 2. We said "Germany is not a threat to the US".... until they were.

Avoiding all conflict, is now always a good policy.

If you avoid all conflict in your marriage, problems will continue to grow until it destroys your marriage.

If you avoid all conflict with out of control people around the world, they will continue to grow and be a problem, until they cause a war you can't avoid anymore.

When Hugo Chavez deployed his military towards Columbia, it was a clear attempt to start an all out war in South America.

Bush wisely deployed US troops into Columbia, and Chavez backed away.

Being stupid with an out of control dictator, does not avoid war... it nearly guarantees war.

Yes, North Korea can't directly strike the US, but NK can most certainly hit our allies, and cause a World War.

Only idiots think we should just let the crazy person do whatever he wants.

 

[busybee01]

What does this have to do with Trump?

The amount of your refund, is determined by how much you over pay. If you WANT a refund, you just jack up your with-holdings. How dumb is that? I want to be poorer all year long... so I can get a check back from the government?

Hey idiot.... put your money in a savings account, and at the end of the year, you'll have the same amount of money in that account, that you would have had in a refund... except with interest.

And if you have an emergency during the year, you could use it.

Trump has nothing to do with how stupid you are in giving too much money to the government. Dumbest thing in the world....

"I'm mad at Trump because I didn't over pay all year long! It's all his fault I wasn't poorer the entire year!"

Are you a moron? Oh... right... your worse than a moron... you are a Democrap.

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Like it shoulda been a shock that a man who breaths lies....lied about this. He has many more lies planned to screw middle America.

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

The withholding tables were not put in place by Congress. That was the Treasury Department.

In conformance with the tax reforms passed by Congress.

They could have left the original tables in place and made the new table optional. Apparently the Treasury Department wanted to reduce tax refunds when they put the withholding tables in place.

 

[Andylusion]

What does this have to do with Trump?

The amount of your refund, is determined by how much you over pay. If you WANT a refund, you just jack up your with-holdings. How dumb is that? I want to be poorer all year long... so I can get a check back from the government?

Hey idiot.... put your money in a savings account, and at the end of the year, you'll have the same amount of money in that account, that you would have had in a refund... except with interest.

And if you have an emergency during the year, you could use it.

Trump has nothing to do with how stupid you are in giving too much money to the government. Dumbest thing in the world....

"I'm mad at Trump because I didn't over pay all year long! It's all his fault I wasn't poorer the entire year!"

Are you a moron? Oh... right... your worse than a moron... you are a Democrap.

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Only a fucking moron depends on their tax return

No one is relying on their tax return. However they may have plans for the tax return.

Again, that would make you a moron.

If your budget and life plans, are centered around a tax return... that makes you an idiot.

If you are telling me, that you are blowing money, based on a tax return, because you are assuming money is coming from the government... you are a moron.

You are the only moron I see.

People base the tax refunds to buy something nice for themselves or something else. They are not idiots and that is hardly blowing money. Your disdain for ordinary Americans is noted.

I have a disdain for stupidity. If the ordinary American is stupid, that is something that should be ashamed of. There is a reason the rest of world thinks Americans are mentally stupid... and if you are going to add to their reasons, you should think about that.

If you want to buy something, you do something called "Save up". My grand mother had this fancy new invention back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, called a "Savings account". And what you did, as a responsible adult, is you actually intentionally put money into this "savings account" and when you had enough money in this "savings account" you then bought the item you were saving for.

I have done this for 15 years. It's like magic. It works every single time.

What you don't do, is give all your extra cash to the government all year long, and then whine when the government doesn't give it all back.

(pssst.... Government never gives it all back. No matter how much you get back, they stole a ton more).

So if the ordinary is stupid, then yes, I have disdain for the ordinarily stupid.

 

[busybee01]

Trump needs the missing taxpayer refund money to bolster his wealth which is sagging like his ass and jowls.

Apparently, you enjoy embarrassing yourself.

That's funny, coming from a Trump supporter. Everything you voted for is a lie.

The tax cuts are shit, there's no great job waiting for you, coal is not coming back, the Koreans have doubled their nuclear capacity, and there will be no wall.

I got a nice refund, I got a new job at twice the salary and was promoted twice in 2018, coal is coming back because we are selling it to China, the North Koreans have firecrackers, and the wall is being built.

Why do you lie?

The wall will never be built. NK was never a threat to the US. Coal will never come back. It will remain a small part of energy production.

If we had dealt with Hitler when he violated the treaty and went into the Rhineland, there would never have been a world war 2.

It was because people had the attitude that you just promoted, that directly caused world war 2. We said "Germany is not a threat to the US".... until they were.

Avoiding all conflict, is now always a good policy.

If you avoid all conflict in your marriage, problems will continue to grow until it destroys your marriage.

If you avoid all conflict with out of control people around the world, they will continue to grow and be a problem, until they cause a war you can't avoid anymore.

When Hugo Chavez deployed his military towards Columbia, it was a clear attempt to start an all out war in South America.

Bush wisely deployed US troops into Columbia, and Chavez backed away.

Being stupid with an out of control dictator, does not avoid war... it nearly guarantees war.

Yes, North Korea can't directly strike the US, but NK can most certainly hit our allies, and cause a World War.

Only idiots think we should just let the crazy person do whatever he wants.

You are aware of the fact that we have troops in North Korea. Trump is the only one who has suggested removing them. He is doing this to get attention and nothing more. Past Presidents have refused to give him legitimacy which Trump has given him.

 

[Rustic]

If you ever got a refund of more than a couple of hundred dollars, you're paying way too much in withholding.

.

That is true however some people use withholding as a way of saving money until they get their refund. The new withholding tables were put in place without the consent of taxpayers.

Sorry dipstick, you can request more be withheld. What you're really saying is most people are too ignorant to manage their own affairs.

.

You are the dipstick as are all Trump supporters. The IRS sets all withholding tables. The only way to affect that is to decide whether or not to carry dependents. People are not ignorant. They use withholding the way they used a Christmas club account at one time. Save some money through withholding and buy something nice when you get your refund.

Lol
Which is totally moronic, Letting the government use your money for most of the year for nothing. A smart person would have to pay in every year.... As late as possible

There is nothing moronic. You get nothing in terms of interest for 1 year. Again Christmas accounts used to do the same thing.

The whole concept of withholding is moronic and retarded...

 

[Andylusion]

Apparently, you enjoy embarrassing yourself.

That's funny, coming from a Trump supporter. Everything you voted for is a lie.

The tax cuts are shit, there's no great job waiting for you, coal is not coming back, the Koreans have doubled their nuclear capacity, and there will be no wall.

I got a nice refund, I got a new job at twice the salary and was promoted twice in 2018, coal is coming back because we are selling it to China, the North Koreans have firecrackers, and the wall is being built.

Why do you lie?

The wall will never be built. NK was never a threat to the US. Coal will never come back. It will remain a small part of energy production.

If we had dealt with Hitler when he violated the treaty and went into the Rhineland, there would never have been a world war 2.

It was because people had the attitude that you just promoted, that directly caused world war 2. We said "Germany is not a threat to the US".... until they were.

Avoiding all conflict, is now always a good policy.

If you avoid all conflict in your marriage, problems will continue to grow until it destroys your marriage.

If you avoid all conflict with out of control people around the world, they will continue to grow and be a problem, until they cause a war you can't avoid anymore.

When Hugo Chavez deployed his military towards Columbia, it was a clear attempt to start an all out war in South America.

Bush wisely deployed US troops into Columbia, and Chavez backed away.

Being stupid with an out of control dictator, does not avoid war... it nearly guarantees war.

Yes, North Korea can't directly strike the US, but NK can most certainly hit our allies, and cause a World War.

Only idiots think we should just let the crazy person do whatever he wants.

You are aware of the fact that we have troops in North Korea. Trump is the only one who has suggested removing them. He is doing this to get attention and nothing more. Past Presidents have refused to give him legitimacy which Trump has given him.

Let me verify what you just said..... you are telling me that right now, we have troops stationed in North Korea? Right now, US Troops are stationed in North Korea? You have evidence for this?

 

[toomuchtime_]

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Like it shoulda been a shock that a man who breaths lies....lied about this. He has many more lies planned to screw middle America.

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

The withholding tables were not put in place by Congress. That was the Treasury Department.

In conformance with the tax reforms passed by Congress.

They could have left the original tables in place and made the new table optional. Apparently the Treasury Department wanted to reduce tax refunds when they put the withholding tables in place.

No, Congress passed legislation that made the old tables irrelevant, and Treasury updated the tables to conform with the law. The reason the tax refunds are lower is because less withholding was drawn from their paychecks because of the tax cut they enjoyed, but how can people stupid enough to make interest free loans to the federal government all year be expected to understand that?

Again, the reason the tax refunds are lower is that the people paid less in taxes during the year.

 

[dudmuck]

The feces has hit the fan at tax refund time as low and middle-class Americans are finding that Trump has his hand in their pocket and has stolen money from their refunds.

The wealthy are still doing just fine. The lies about the Trump tax cuts is now exposed that the low and middle class are financing the tax cuts for the wealthy people and corporations.

Donald Trump won't be able to spin his way out of the tax cut lie.

Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter | HuffPost

Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter
Many workers who had always gotten a refund find out they now owe the IRS.
headshot
By Mary Papenfuss

Average tax refunds were down last week 8.4 percent for the first week of the tax season over the same time last year, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Dipping refunds are inflaming a growing army of taxpayers stunned by the consequences of the Trump administration’s tax law — and the effects of the partial government shutdown.

The average refund check paid out so far has been $1,865, down from $2,035 at the same point in 2018, according to IRS data. Low-income taxpayers often file early to pocket the money as soon as possible. Many taxpayers count on the refunds to make important payments, or spend the money on things like home repairs, a vacation or a car.

The IRS had estimated it would issue about 2.3 percent fewer refunds this year as a result of the changes in the federal tax law, according to Bloomberg. MSNBC reports that 30 million Americans will owe the IRS money this year — 3 million more than before Trump’s tax law.

“There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next month,” Edward Karl of the American Institute of CPAs told Politico. “Taxpayers want a large refund.” Some 71 percent of taxpayers received refunds last year worth about $3,000 on average, according to Karl.

Scads of taxpayers are complaining on Twitter that they have always received a refund — but now owe the IRS instead. ...

What does this have to do with Trump?

The amount of your refund, is determined by how much you over pay. If you WANT a refund, you just jack up your with-holdings. How dumb is that? I want to be poorer all year long... so I can get a check back from the government?

Hey idiot.... put your money in a savings account, and at the end of the year, you'll have the same amount of money in that account, that you would have had in a refund... except with interest.

And if you have an emergency during the year, you could use it.

Trump has nothing to do with how stupid you are in giving too much money to the government. Dumbest thing in the world....

"I'm mad at Trump because I didn't over pay all year long! It's all his fault I wasn't poorer the entire year!"

Are you a moron? Oh... right... your worse than a moron... you are a Democrap.

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Like it shoulda been a shock that a man who breaths lies....lied about this. He has many more lies planned to screw middle America.

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

Everybody is calling it "Trump tax plan". He's not responsible for something he signed?

 

[busybee01]

You are dumber than you seem.

People are calculating their taxes. They made about the same as the previous year under the old tax code, they took the same withholding, and they expected a LARGER refund because that's what Trump promised. When many people didn't see any increase in their paycheck when the cuts took effect. Trump said they'd get a big refund from the cuts, but they are now finding that they're paying MORE than they did last year.

People are mad at Trump because HE LIED.

Only a fucking moron depends on their tax return

No one is relying on their tax return. However they may have plans for the tax return.

Again, that would make you a moron.

If your budget and life plans, are centered around a tax return... that makes you an idiot.

If you are telling me, that you are blowing money, based on a tax return, because you are assuming money is coming from the government... you are a moron.

You are the only moron I see.

People base the tax refunds to buy something nice for themselves or something else. They are not idiots and that is hardly blowing money. Your disdain for ordinary Americans is noted.

I have a disdain for stupidity. If the ordinary American is stupid, that is something that should be ashamed of. There is a reason the rest of world thinks Americans are mentally stupid... and if you are going to add to their reasons, you should think about that.

If you want to buy something, you do something called "Save up". My grand mother had this fancy new invention back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, called a "Savings account". And what you did, as a responsible adult, is you actually intentionally put money into this "savings account" and when you had enough money in this "savings account" you then bought the item you were saving for.

I have done this for 15 years. It's like magic. It works every single time.

What you don't do, is give all your extra cash to the government all year long, and then whine when the government doesn't give it all back.

(pssst.... Government never gives it all back. No matter how much you get back, they stole a ton more).

So if the ordinary is stupid, then yes, I have disdain for the ordinarily stupid.

Stupidity is defined by your likes and dislikes. The rest of the world thinks we are stupid because we elect a idiot like Trump. In this case, they are right.

There is no difference between a savings account and a tax refund. The interest that is foregone is negligible today.

 

[flack]

Only a fucking moron depends on their tax return

No one is relying on their tax return. However they may have plans for the tax return.

Again, that would make you a moron.

If your budget and life plans, are centered around a tax return... that makes you an idiot.

If you are telling me, that you are blowing money, based on a tax return, because you are assuming money is coming from the government... you are a moron.

You are the only moron I see.

People base the tax refunds to buy something nice for themselves or something else. They are not idiots and that is hardly blowing money. Your disdain for ordinary Americans is noted.

I have a disdain for stupidity. If the ordinary American is stupid, that is something that should be ashamed of. There is a reason the rest of world thinks Americans are mentally stupid... and if you are going to add to their reasons, you should think about that.

If you want to buy something, you do something called "Save up". My grand mother had this fancy new invention back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, called a "Savings account". And what you did, as a responsible adult, is you actually intentionally put money into this "savings account" and when you had enough money in this "savings account" you then bought the item you were saving for.

I have done this for 15 years. It's like magic. It works every single time.

What you don't do, is give all your extra cash to the government all year long, and then whine when the government doesn't give it all back.

(pssst.... Government never gives it all back. No matter how much you get back, they stole a ton more).

So if the ordinary is stupid, then yes, I have disdain for the ordinarily stupid.

Stupidity is defined by your likes and dislikes. The rest of the world thinks we are stupid because we elect a idiot like Trump. In this case, they are right.

There is no difference between a savings account and a tax refund. The interest that is foregone is negligible today.

Good grief!!!!

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It is mostly because of the limited state and local tax deduction. Last year I was able to deduct $13k but this year the limit is $10k. That being said I also paid a lower tax rate and get a $1.6k child tax credit per child. I ll be doing my taxes next week and see where I come out. What Trump did do was punish the blue states. Where the state and local and RE taxes were super high...like $50k vs my $13k and people used that to lower their Federal Tax burden. This really is a tax on the rich, that the Democrats wanted. I am not sure what they are complaining about.

Another good point re state and local taxes; why give them a Federal tax deduction? They can vote themselves major tax deductions in their own states. No reason for everybody else to help finance their local and state spending, especially states like California and New York. California capped their real estates taxes, a major welfare subsidy for the wealthy, leaving the lower income brackets to make up the difference, and of course their high payroll taxes are ridiculous.

Because it is wrong to require people to pay taxes on taxes. Also California and New York have higher per capita incomes and a higher cost of living. Also states like California and New York get less from the federal government than they pay in taxes while red states get more than they pay in taxes.

Hold on. I am an MD in Indiana. I make $400k/year. My RE taxes are $10k. I am an MD in NY I make $600k per year and my RE taxes are $20k. Why should I get the benefit of writing off an additional $10K? I chose to live in a more expensive house and my salary is 50% higher because of where I live? I am not saying it is right or wrong but I would like to understand your rationale. Thank you.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Only a fucking moron depends on their tax return

No one is relying on their tax return. However they may have plans for the tax return.

Again, that would make you a moron.

If your budget and life plans, are centered around a tax return... that makes you an idiot.

If you are telling me, that you are blowing money, based on a tax return, because you are assuming money is coming from the government... you are a moron.

You are the only moron I see.

People base the tax refunds to buy something nice for themselves or something else. They are not idiots and that is hardly blowing money. Your disdain for ordinary Americans is noted.

I have a disdain for stupidity. If the ordinary American is stupid, that is something that should be ashamed of. There is a reason the rest of world thinks Americans are mentally stupid... and if you are going to add to their reasons, you should think about that.

If you want to buy something, you do something called "Save up". My grand mother had this fancy new invention back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, called a "Savings account". And what you did, as a responsible adult, is you actually intentionally put money into this "savings account" and when you had enough money in this "savings account" you then bought the item you were saving for.

I have done this for 15 years. It's like magic. It works every single time.

What you don't do, is give all your extra cash to the government all year long, and then whine when the government doesn't give it all back.

(pssst.... Government never gives it all back. No matter how much you get back, they stole a ton more).

So if the ordinary is stupid, then yes, I have disdain for the ordinarily stupid.

Stupidity is defined by your likes and dislikes. The rest of the world thinks we are stupid because we elect a idiot like Trump. In this case, they are right.

There is no difference between a savings account and a tax refund. The interest that is foregone is negligible today.

Not at all true. You can get 2% now. That is $200 on $10k. It won't buy you a new car but it is real money. And people in Israel love Trump. Including my relatives there. Who do you mean by "rest of the world" please?

 

[busybee01]

Like it shoulda been a shock that a man who breaths lies....lied about this. He has many more lies planned to screw middle America.

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

The withholding tables were not put in place by Congress. That was the Treasury Department.

In conformance with the tax reforms passed by Congress.

They could have left the original tables in place and made the new table optional. Apparently the Treasury Department wanted to reduce tax refunds when they put the withholding tables in place.

No, Congress passed legislation that made the old tables irrelevant, and Treasury updated the tables to conform with the law. The reason the tax refunds are lower is because less withholding was drawn from their paychecks because of the tax cut they enjoyed, but how can people stupid enough to make interest free loans to the federal government all year be expected to understand that?

Again, the reason the tax refunds are lower is that the people paid less in taxes during the year.

They were not irrelevant. It was a strictly political decision so voters would see the supposed tax cuts in their checks. People have not been impressed. The Treasury could have left the old tables in place and people could have gotten bigger refunds. Then people could have chosen whether they want less or the same amount withheld next year. Instead some people are going to be owing money instead of getting refunds. Again interest rates are still so low that the interest taxpayers are foregoing might not even buy chewing gum.

 

[toomuchtime_]

the new tax tables and code changes were put in place by congress, Trump did not write any of it, he signed the bill. If you want to blame someone, start with Paul Ryan.

The withholding tables were not put in place by Congress. That was the Treasury Department.

In conformance with the tax reforms passed by Congress.

They could have left the original tables in place and made the new table optional. Apparently the Treasury Department wanted to reduce tax refunds when they put the withholding tables in place.

No, Congress passed legislation that made the old tables irrelevant, and Treasury updated the tables to conform with the law. The reason the tax refunds are lower is because less withholding was drawn from their paychecks because of the tax cut they enjoyed, but how can people stupid enough to make interest free loans to the federal government all year be expected to understand that?

Again, the reason the tax refunds are lower is that the people paid less in taxes during the year.

They were not irrelevant. It was a strictly political decision so voters would see the supposed tax cuts in their checks. People have not been impressed. The Treasury could have left the old tables in place and people could have gotten bigger refunds. Then people could have chosen whether they want less or the same amount withheld next year. Instead some people are going to be owing money instead of getting refunds. Again interest rates are still so low that the interest taxpayers are foregoing might not even buy chewing gum.

I'm sure you can find the old tax tables online if you really want to see them, but what you will find is that under the old tables you would have paid more in taxes and therefore would have gotten back more in refunds.

 

[busybee01]

It is mostly because of the limited state and local tax deduction. Last year I was able to deduct $13k but this year the limit is $10k. That being said I also paid a lower tax rate and get a $1.6k child tax credit per child. I ll be doing my taxes next week and see where I come out. What Trump did do was punish the blue states. Where the state and local and RE taxes were super high...like $50k vs my $13k and people used that to lower their Federal Tax burden. This really is a tax on the rich, that the Democrats wanted. I am not sure what they are complaining about.

Another good point re state and local taxes; why give them a Federal tax deduction? They can vote themselves major tax deductions in their own states. No reason for everybody else to help finance their local and state spending, especially states like California and New York. California capped their real estates taxes, a major welfare subsidy for the wealthy, leaving the lower income brackets to make up the difference, and of course their high payroll taxes are ridiculous.

Because it is wrong to require people to pay taxes on taxes. Also California and New York have higher per capita incomes and a higher cost of living. Also states like California and New York get less from the federal government than they pay in taxes while red states get more than they pay in taxes.

Hold on. I am an MD in Indiana. I make $400k/year. My RE taxes are $10k. I am an MD in NY I make $600k per year and my RE taxes are $20k. Why should I get the benefit of writing off an additional $10K? I chose to live in a more expensive house and my salary is 50% higher because of where I live? I am not saying it is right or wrong but I would like to understand your rationale. Thank you.

It is basic fact that if you are in a area that has a higher per capita income then the cost of living is higher. Employers have to pay more to get workers to work there. Sometimes you have no choice but to live in more expensive housing.

It is immoral to force people to pay taxes on taxes.