Tony Blair: We blew it

[rightwinger]

We were told that the Iraqis were yearning to breath free, they just needed to be gotten out from under Saddam.

That was false intel too.

Eh no, that was just propaganda to sell a war

But they had it coming anyway so don't worry about it.

Do you know that the oppressed Syrians are yearning to be free of Assad btw?

THe idea that the Arab Common man was just like US in their desire for Freedom and this and that, was a long standing myth, well before Bush and as you point out, still going strong, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Blaming Bush for it, is like blaming anti-communism on Reagan.

Bush trumped up a reason for the war, he diverted the war on terrorism and botched the execution of the war

He will have to answer to history

 

[Correll]

The Tony Blair Witch Project, no real danger but a lot of camera shaking and someone cowering in fear along with Shrubya, Rummy, Dark Cheney, and Wolf-no-witz. All should be charged with war crimes.

"We should hide behind the chainsaws". "Smart".

That was the most objective, rational and well reasoned argument I have ever seen put forth explaining and advocating for the liberal position.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz headed for the cemetery and they saw no one they knew.

Great stuff.

Just as an aside, in your mind, which of them is the hot blond?

 

[playtime]

I've asked many people over the years but very few people remember- right at the onset of going into Iraq- Blair went on TV & actually said that t was wrong to do... that Great Britain was not going to be part of the coalition. VERY shortly after, he did a 180 & completely changed his stance. Something or somebody got to him, for reasons unknown & changed his mind. It probably was to let BP in on some of the oil contracts.

 

[NightFox]

So, if you know them, why did you ask?

Because none of them were rational at the time and history has demonstrated that they were ALL nonsense, so the tens of millions of us that were against going to war in Iraq in the first place were correct, yet still some people want to attempt to justify it and absolve the idiots that got us into it. I guess that whole hindsight is 20/20 thing is bullshit, huh?

And the fact that I don't want to waste my time telling you stuff you already know, and I knew that you knew (btw thanks for not lying about that, like many liberals) does not mean that I disagreed with those reasons.

My guess is that you know all the reasons were nothing more than illusion that cannot be utilized to formulate a rational justification which is the real reason that you will not "waste your time".

 

[Correll]

We were told that the Iraqis were yearning to breath free, they just needed to be gotten out from under Saddam.

That was false intel too.

Eh no, that was just propaganda to sell a war

But they had it coming anyway so don't worry about it.

Do you know that the oppressed Syrians are yearning to be free of Assad btw?

THe idea that the Arab Common man was just like US in their desire for Freedom and this and that, was a long standing myth, well before Bush and as you point out, still going strong, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Blaming Bush for it, is like blaming anti-communism on Reagan.

Bush trumped up a reason for the war, he diverted the war on terrorism and botched the execution of the war

He will have to answer to history

The intel was wrong. That is always a possibility.

Bush thought that getting rid of Saddam would make the world a better place.

A reasonable expectation, especially given the misunderstanding of the Iraqi people.

"Botched"? That's debatable.

IMO, that is mostly on the Iraqi People.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Your confusion about the relationship between the President and the Vice-President is of no interest to me and is off topic.

YOu are welcome to go back to my previous post and try posting again.

I'm not confused at all

You seem to be the confused one, wanting to excuse war crimes because the Iraqis chose the wrong dictator.

 

[Correll]

So, if you know them, why did you ask?

Because none of them were rational at the time and history has demonstrated that they were ALL nonsense, so the tens of millions of us that were against going to war in Iraq in the first place were correct, yet still some people want to attempt to justify it and absolve the idiots that got us into it. I guess that whole hindsight is 20/20 thing is bullshit, huh?

And the fact that I don't want to waste my time telling you stuff you already know, and I knew that you knew (btw thanks for not lying about that, like many liberals) does not mean that I disagreed with those reasons.

My guess is that you know all the reasons were nothing more than illusion that cannot be utilized to formulate a rational justification which is the real reason that you will not "waste your time".

So you disagreed with the rationals for the war. Got it.

Nope, those reasons were fine.

What was your point again?

 

[Correll]

Your confusion about the relationship between the President and the Vice-President is of no interest to me and is off topic.

YOu are welcome to go back to my previous post and try posting again.

I'm not confused at all

You seem to be the confused one, wanting to excuse war crimes because the Iraqis chose the wrong dictator.

Yes, you are. The Vice President in not in charge. Biden is older than Obama. Do you doubt who is in charge?

War crimes? Save the drama for someone who cares.

 

[Tehon]

War crimes? Save the drama for someone who cares.

That's exactly the problem. It's why we as a nation have allowed our government to commit atrocities in our name. Iraq or Syria, it's the same shit and Americans don't seem to care.

 

[NightFox]

So you disagreed with the rationals for the war. Got it.

Nope, those reasons were fine.

What was your point again?

Do you have short term memory issues? here let me help you out

Iraq was justified for numerous other reasons, and, it the Iraqis had their act together at all, should have ended up much better than under Saddam.

I asked you for the specifics of those "numerous other reasons", either you still buy the bullshit that the was being peddled to justify the war in the first place or you just wandered off into a fairy tale land of shoulda, woulda, coulda and attempted to blame all the negative consequences on the Iraqi people, which is it?

I do however respect the fact that you don't want to even attempt to back up your statement since apparently you've realized that it's an impossible position to defend.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Yes, you are. The Vice President in not in charge. Biden is older than Obama. Do you doubt who is in charge?

According to the tea zombies, Hillary is in charge

War crimes? Save the drama for someone who cares.

Sorry, my mistake. But Saddam was a bad guy because he gassed people.... right?

 

[Correll]

So you disagreed with the rationals for the war. Got it.

Nope, those reasons were fine.

What was your point again?

Do you have short term memory issues? here let me help you out

Iraq was justified for numerous other reasons, and, it the Iraqis had their act together at all, should have ended up much better than under Saddam.

I asked you for the specifics of those "numerous other reasons", either you still buy the bullshit that the was being peddled to justify the war in the first place or you just wandered off into a fairy tale land of shoulda, woulda, coulda and attempted to blame all the negative consequences on the Iraqi people, which is it?

I do however respect the fact that you don't want to even attempt to back up your statement since apparently you've realized that it's an impossible position to defend.

The fact that you disagreed with those reasons doesn't mean they didn't exist or were not real.

We freed the Iraqis from their oppressor.

That they can't be a modern nation state without being oppressed from above is not our fault.

It is a lesson we should remember the next time we want to overthrow a Muslim DIctator, though.

 

[rightwinger]

The lesson to be learned is that absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

When your fantasy is proven untrue....

Cling to the fantasy

When was my "fantasy" proven untrue?

Maybe when they spent three years finding no evidence

 

[Correll]

Yes, you are. The Vice President in not in charge. Biden is older than Obama. Do you doubt who is in charge?

According to the tea zombies, Hillary is in charge

War crimes? Save the drama for someone who cares.

Sorry, my mistake. But Saddam was a bad guy because he gassed people.... right?

I don't recall anyone claiming HIllary is Obama's boss. Link please.

Saddam was a bad guy for a lot of reasons.

 

[rightwinger]

So you disagreed with the rationals for the war. Got it.

Nope, those reasons were fine.

What was your point again?

Do you have short term memory issues? here let me help you out

Iraq was justified for numerous other reasons, and, it the Iraqis had their act together at all, should have ended up much better than under Saddam.

I asked you for the specifics of those "numerous other reasons", either you still buy the bullshit that the was being peddled to justify the war in the first place or you just wandered off into a fairy tale land of shoulda, woulda, coulda and attempted to blame all the negative consequences on the Iraqi people, which is it?

I do however respect the fact that you don't want to even attempt to back up your statement since apparently you've realized that it's an impossible position to defend.

The fact that you disagreed with those reasons doesn't mean they didn't exist or were not real.

We freed the Iraqis from their oppressor.

That they can't be a modern nation state without being oppressed from above is not our fault.

It is a lesson we should remember the next time we want to overthrow a Muslim DIctator, though.

We killed 100,000 Iraqis to "save" them
We killed 5000 Americans unnecessarily
We destabilized the entire region

 

[Correll]

The lesson to be learned is that absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

When your fantasy is proven untrue....

Cling to the fantasy

When was my "fantasy" proven untrue?

Maybe when they spent three years finding no evidence

Ahh, as I suspected, you have no idea what I am referring to.

The historical fact that there was no evidence of was the destruction of Saddam's chemical weapons.


The fact that no evidence was found of it being destroyed prior to the invasions was understandably seen as evidence that it was not destroyed.

But that was a Logical Fallacy. And intuitive one, but still wrong.

An important lesson that is lost in the efforts to score partisan points.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

It is a lesson we should remember the next time we want to overthrow a Muslim DIctator, though.

You just can't wait for it......

Are you one of the bomb, bomb, bomb Iran fanatics?

 

[Correll]

So you disagreed with the rationals for the war. Got it.

Nope, those reasons were fine.

What was your point again?

Do you have short term memory issues? here let me help you out

Iraq was justified for numerous other reasons, and, it the Iraqis had their act together at all, should have ended up much better than under Saddam.

I asked you for the specifics of those "numerous other reasons", either you still buy the bullshit that the was being peddled to justify the war in the first place or you just wandered off into a fairy tale land of shoulda, woulda, coulda and attempted to blame all the negative consequences on the Iraqi people, which is it?

I do however respect the fact that you don't want to even attempt to back up your statement since apparently you've realized that it's an impossible position to defend.

The fact that you disagreed with those reasons doesn't mean they didn't exist or were not real.

We freed the Iraqis from their oppressor.

That they can't be a modern nation state without being oppressed from above is not our fault.

It is a lesson we should remember the next time we want to overthrow a Muslim DIctator, though.

We killed 100,000 Iraqis to "save" them
We killed 5000 Americans unnecessarily
We destabilized the entire region

Yep. We thought the Iraqis would rise up and be happy (they were)

And then live happily ever after. (they didn't)


It is a lesson we should remember next time we want to over throw a Muslim dictator.

 

[Correll]

It is a lesson we should remember the next time we want to overthrow a Muslim DIctator, though.

You just can't wait for it......

Are you one of the bomb, bomb, bomb Iran fanatics?

Wow. Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points, is it?

 

[Jantje_Smit]

I don't recall anyone claiming HIllary is Obama's boss. Link please.

You need to work on your sense of humor comrade....

Saddam was a bad guy for a lot of reasons.

So what? There are a lot of bad guys on this planet, what gives the US the right to decide which ones can stay and which ones need to be killed?