Top 8% Own 85%

[xband]

Imagine you own a restaurant in a town with one really rich guy and many poor. While that one guy is really rich he still only eats 3 times a day and everyone else can't afford to eat out. So your restaurant fails. Too much inequality slows an economy.

That's based on the failed liberal philosophy that because some people have too much money, that's the reason others have too little.

Our country and economy is not encapsulated. We do not live in a bubble. Money is just about endless in this country. Whether we have 20 million rich people or 2, it doesn't change your plight one bit. If you are poor, then you'll still be poor anyway.

How is that based on failed philosophy? If you don't have enough customers you go out of business. How is that wrong?

It's a failed philosophy because it doesn't matter how much money anybody else has. What they have has nothing to do with what you do or don't have.

If I go to work tomorrow and ask my boss for a raise, and he tells me that he'd love to give me one, but he can't because the rich people have all the money, then you might have a point. Or if I go to the bank for a car loan, and they tell me they can't spare the cash because the rich people have all the money, again, then you'd have a point.

But these things never happened to you or anybody else in this country. It doesn't matter how much money rich people have.

huh? How does that change that if you don't have enough customers you go out of business?

Tell me how many business in a 20 mile radius of you that were in business before the recession have gone out of business

I can tell you around me it was very few and they were struggling way before the crash

So there are plenty of customers to cater to

20 mile radius is pi r squared for area. Approximately 3600 square miles. I am doing the thinking in my head.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The answer is not that people need to work more:
From 1973 to 2014, net productivity rose 72.2 percent, while the hourly pay of typical workers essentially stagnated—increasing only 9.2 percent over 41 years (after adjusting for inflation). This means that although Americans are working more productively than ever, the fruits of their labors have primarily accrued to those at the top and to corporate profits, especially in recent years.

So what is your point? That businesses should overpay labor and keep less for themselves?

That's exactly his point

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's based on the failed liberal philosophy that because some people have too much money, that's the reason others have too little.

Our country and economy is not encapsulated. We do not live in a bubble. Money is just about endless in this country. Whether we have 20 million rich people or 2, it doesn't change your plight one bit. If you are poor, then you'll still be poor anyway.

How is that based on failed philosophy? If you don't have enough customers you go out of business. How is that wrong?

It's a failed philosophy because it doesn't matter how much money anybody else has. What they have has nothing to do with what you do or don't have.

If I go to work tomorrow and ask my boss for a raise, and he tells me that he'd love to give me one, but he can't because the rich people have all the money, then you might have a point. Or if I go to the bank for a car loan, and they tell me they can't spare the cash because the rich people have all the money, again, then you'd have a point.

But these things never happened to you or anybody else in this country. It doesn't matter how much money rich people have.

huh? How does that change that if you don't have enough customers you go out of business?

Tell me how many business in a 20 mile radius of you that were in business before the recession have gone out of business

I can tell you around me it was very few and they were struggling way before the crash

So there are plenty of customers to cater to

20 mile radius is pi r squared for area. Approximately 3600 square miles. I am doing the thinking in my head.

20 squared is 400 400*pi is 1256 not 3600

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well if they want to be union again, don't you think that's their decision and not yours?

My employer told all of us that if we ever unionized, he would close down the business and reopen under a new business name.

You on the left have to understand the Action/Reaction process. If you take a negative action against somebody, you will likely receive a negative reaction.

The reason people don't want unions any longer is because they are the main culprit of job loss in America. We've learned from our mistakes. Yes, it was a gravy train ride for quite a while, but that ride is over. It's time to face reality.

The American consumer will not support good paying monkey jobs. Even McDonald's ordered thousands of kiosks to replace order takers. It won't be long before they automate their food preparation as well.

More and more grocery stores are adding self-serve checkouts. It won't be long until they are all self-serve. Grocery stores at one time had a very strong union and people did monkey jobs and made great money.

What we are quickly learning is that without them wages are stagnant. As that becomes more and more clear they will be back. Sounds like the typical employer scare tactic. Funny stuff.

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

You can't make business decisions on a tax incentive for one complying with the mandates required to qualify for the incentive often costs more than what you get back and that incentive can be taken away at any time

It's better not to use the tax code as a blunt social engineering tool and to use it what it was meant to do, raise revenue for necessary and legal government functions

 

[xband]

Pi

How is that based on failed philosophy? If you don't have enough customers you go out of business. How is that wrong?

It's a failed philosophy because it doesn't matter how much money anybody else has. What they have has nothing to do with what you do or don't have.

If I go to work tomorrow and ask my boss for a raise, and he tells me that he'd love to give me one, but he can't because the rich people have all the money, then you might have a point. Or if I go to the bank for a car loan, and they tell me they can't spare the cash because the rich people have all the money, again, then you'd have a point.

But these things never happened to you or anybody else in this country. It doesn't matter how much money rich people have.

huh? How does that change that if you don't have enough customers you go out of business?

Tell me how many business in a 20 mile radius of you that were in business before the recession have gone out of business

I can tell you around me it was very few and they were struggling way before the crash

So there are plenty of customers to cater to

20 mile radius is pi r squared for area. Approximately 3600 square miles. I am doing the thinking in my head.

20 squared is 400 400*pi is 1256 not 3600

I accept PI to be 3.14 and radius to be the distance between the center point and outer edge of the circle. 20 mile radius times Pi equals 60 and 60 squared is 3600.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here are the "poor" in America

How Poor Are America's Poor? Examining the "Plague" of Poverty in America

• Forty-three percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
• Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
• Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
• The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to theaverage citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
• Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.
• Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
• Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
• Eighty-nine percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Pi

It's a failed philosophy because it doesn't matter how much money anybody else has. What they have has nothing to do with what you do or don't have.

If I go to work tomorrow and ask my boss for a raise, and he tells me that he'd love to give me one, but he can't because the rich people have all the money, then you might have a point. Or if I go to the bank for a car loan, and they tell me they can't spare the cash because the rich people have all the money, again, then you'd have a point.

But these things never happened to you or anybody else in this country. It doesn't matter how much money rich people have.

huh? How does that change that if you don't have enough customers you go out of business?

Tell me how many business in a 20 mile radius of you that were in business before the recession have gone out of business

I can tell you around me it was very few and they were struggling way before the crash

So there are plenty of customers to cater to

20 mile radius is pi r squared for area. Approximately 3600 square miles. I am doing the thinking in my head.

20 squared is 400 400*pi is 1256 not 3600

I accept PI to be 3.14 and radius to be the distance between the center point and outer edge of the circle. 20 mile radius times Pi equals 60 and 60 squared is 3600.

You're doing it wrong

You square the radius then multiply by pi you don't square the product of r(pi)

Circle Calculator that Shows All Steps

 

[xband]

Pi

huh? How does that change that if you don't have enough customers you go out of business?

Tell me how many business in a 20 mile radius of you that were in business before the recession have gone out of business

I can tell you around me it was very few and they were struggling way before the crash

So there are plenty of customers to cater to

20 mile radius is pi r squared for area. Approximately 3600 square miles. I am doing the thinking in my head.

20 squared is 400 400*pi is 1256 not 3600

I accept PI to be 3.14 and radius to be the distance between the center point and outer edge of the circle. 20 mile radius times Pi equals 60 and 60 squared is 3600.

You're doing it wrong

You square the radius then multiply by pi you don't square the product of r(pi)

A= pi R squared for area of a circle and it makes no difference which one you multiply by pie on the right side of the equation. Send them to school and buy them books...


Circle Calculator that Shows All Steps

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

This is another one of those bonkers things people say, that doesn't fit with reality.

"cars nobody wanted"

Really? Nobody wanted them? Really? You can prove that?

So throughout the entire recession, from 2007 to 2010, GM had the largest chuck of US market share. More than any other manufacturer in the US.

In other words, they were selling more of the "cars nobody wanted" than any other car maker in the US, apparently to customers who didn't want them.

BS. No, the problem wasn't that people didn't want their cars. The problem was Unions.

BS. All their problems were management problems. Had nothing to do with unions. The downfall began in the 80's when the imported cars were fuel efficient and what customer wanted. The US companies continued to make big gas guzzlers. US cars haven't even had good styling until the last 5 years maybe.

Again, looking at the FACTS, now your opinion..... GM sold more cars, than any other car company in the country. This is a "Fact".

How is it a management problem, that you are selling more cars than any other company in the country? What 'management problem' is that?

Here's what the problem was. The cost of labor was too high, compared to the price the cars fetched. Toyota... can change their labor costs. Honda.... can change their labor costs. GM and Chrysler could not, because they were under Union contracts, enforced by the government.

That's the problem. You can't blame management, or that "no one wanted" when they were out selling everyone. It goes back to my simple explanation of business. Price of product minus cost of production. When Unions jack up the cost of production, eventually you end up in bankruptcy.

The problem is that US companies put money into their union workers instead of their product. This was explained to me by my mechanic when I last owned an American car.

So after I got rid of that piece of junk, I went to Toyota and never been happier. Never been towed, never been late for work, never been stranded anywhere, because Toyota put their money into quality than labor. That's why Toyota can give you a 100,000 mile 7 year warranty on their products and American companies can't.

If you go to an American dealership, and compare a 50,000 mile used car compared to the price of a new one, you'll find a huge gap. Do the same at Toyota, and you'll see how much value their used cars have kept.

YES!!!

I don't know why people don't grasp this.

You have two cars. Both cost $20,000.

If the cost of labor is $10,000 of the first car, then what can the company do? They can put more call stuff, higher quality stuff, into the car, and still make a profit.

IF the cost of labor is $18,000 of the second car..... what does the company have no choice but to do? They have to put cheaper lower quality stuff in the car.

Unions drive the company, in the long run, to make crappy products. Money doesn't grow on trees. If more money goes to Union benefits, then something has to be cut.

It ends up being the quality of the car.

Yes, but you can't explain that enough to the left. Whatever the problem, it's the rich guys fault.

I didn't make assumptions when I told him that, I got that first had from several mechanics. These are the same mechanics that told me they seldom have to work on a Japanese car unless it's an older one.

Personal experience? Like I said, my Camry never seen a tow truck yet, and neither did my last one. The one I have now has 80,000 miles on it. Never been tuned up, never seen any work other than oil changes.

Cars don't have good or bad luck. Cars are made to last a short time or a long time.

 

[Brain357]

Again, looking at the FACTS, now your opinion..... GM sold more cars, than any other car company in the country. This is a "Fact".

How is it a management problem, that you are selling more cars than any other company in the country? What 'management problem' is that?

Here's what the problem was. The cost of labor was too high, compared to the price the cars fetched. Toyota... can change their labor costs. Honda.... can change their labor costs. GM and Chrysler could not, because they were under Union contracts, enforced by the government.

That's the problem. You can't blame management, or that "no one wanted" when they were out selling everyone. It goes back to my simple explanation of business. Price of product minus cost of production. When Unions jack up the cost of production, eventually you end up in bankruptcy.

The problem is that US companies put money into their union workers instead of their product. This was explained to me by my mechanic when I last owned an American car.

So after I got rid of that piece of junk, I went to Toyota and never been happier. Never been towed, never been late for work, never been stranded anywhere, because Toyota put their money into quality than labor. That's why Toyota can give you a 100,000 mile 7 year warranty on their products and American companies can't.

If you go to an American dealership, and compare a 50,000 mile used car compared to the price of a new one, you'll find a huge gap. Do the same at Toyota, and you'll see how much value their used cars have kept.

The engineers aren't union.

That's irrelevant. Engineers are paid for out of profits. Profits is produced by the price minus cost of production. When you drive up labor costs, you have to lower the cost somewhere else, in order to have a profit.

The people designing the cars that break are irrelevant? Really?

Yes, they are irrelevant.

You not getting this.

You can't put into a car, parts that are so expensive that the car no longer makes a profit. If the price of labor is higher.... the cost of the parts MUST be lower. Engineers can't make a part that costs 3¢ and lasts 200 years. If they engineer the part to last longer, is always costs more. But a Chevy Metro, doesn't magically become worth $30,000, because they have an alternator that will last 100 years.

So the cost of the car doesn't really change. A $20,000 sedan, will not bring a higher price, because they put in a better alternator.

Thus, as the price of labor costs go up.... because of Unions.... the cost of parts, has to go down. They have to cut cost, in order to make a profit. So they put into the car, the crappy alternator, that hopefully lasts until it's out of warranty.

The issues were all design and engineering based. so far you have backed up your claim with no proof. What parts are you talking about? How is it Japan has union workers in Japan without the issues you claim?

 

[Wilbur Right]

No one plans their budget around their tax return

Bullshit. People plan what they are going to do with a tax refund all the time. And look forward to the refunds arrival. And look forward to the items they can afford to buy.

You stupid to think otherwise.

 

[Wilbur Right]

And writing off business expenses is not a loophole.

LMAO. Then if writing business expenses off doesn't let you use a tax code advantage for business owners, why do you use It?

People who pay ZERO income tax when they have an income are getting a free ride

You poor baby. You ever notice how jealous you are of the poorest wage earners? It's weird.

Low wage earners use the tax code to their advantage just like you do.

I guess you will claim that IF you could write down your business profits to the point you owed no tax, you wouldn't do that. It would mean you got a free ride.

And you wouldn't do that would you.
LMAO.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Most have no idea what they are going to get so how do they plan their budget around that?

You ever filed a fucking personal tax return?
There is a box at the bottom of page two that tells you amount of tax refund or the amount of tax owed.

Sometimes tax preparers will even tell the filer what the refund amount should be.

Why you acting so fucking stupid?

 

[Wilbur Right]

People are responsible for increasing their own wages
Anyone can start making more money tomorrow if they want to

Where do you get this Bullshit?

 

[Wilbur Right]

And I'm not picking on anyone if you people want to whine about "fair share" then you should define just what exactly a "fair share" of income is and everyone should pay it

Idiot. Fair share of taxes is what I pay according to the tax code as written by congress.

That what ALL tax filers do. Pay according to the tax code.

When you are not paying your Fair share of taxes, it means you have found a way to cheat the tax code.

Low wage earners are not "cheating". Are you?

 

[Brain357]

Has the bottom moved up while those millionaires have moved down? Did they increase wages to employees?

No, why should they?

Let me ask you: do you overpay your mechanic to fix your car? Do you overpay your plumber to fix the sewer line in your basement? Why would anybody pay more money for services than they need to?

Have you seen the debt? They need to.

Well then, follow your own advice. Next time you need your house painted and get three bids, make sure you hire the most expensive company. Or if you go out and get house insurance. Make sure you select the insurance company that has the highest premium.

Lead by example if you really think that employers should pay more money to employees than they are worth.

I think they should pay what they are worth, not collude to pay them less as in all the examples I provided.

That link you gave me was about companies agreeing not to poach high paid employees from each other not about colluding to lower wages for all their employees

So you really don't understand how workers get paid more in capitalism then.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No one plans their budget around their tax return

Bullshit. People plan what they are going to do with a tax refund all the time. And look forward to the refunds arrival. And look forward to the items they can afford to buy.

You stupid to think otherwise.

Funny how I never sat down and added a tax return into my weekly budget
People treat their tax returns as extra money not money they plan on to pay their bills

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, why should they?

Let me ask you: do you overpay your mechanic to fix your car? Do you overpay your plumber to fix the sewer line in your basement? Why would anybody pay more money for services than they need to?

Have you seen the debt? They need to.

Well then, follow your own advice. Next time you need your house painted and get three bids, make sure you hire the most expensive company. Or if you go out and get house insurance. Make sure you select the insurance company that has the highest premium.

Lead by example if you really think that employers should pay more money to employees than they are worth.

I think they should pay what they are worth, not collude to pay them less as in all the examples I provided.

That link you gave me was about companies agreeing not to poach high paid employees from each other not about colluding to lower wages for all their employees

So you really don't understand how workers get paid more in capitalism then.

It was not collusion to keep all their employees wages down as you claim but rather it was about non compete clauses

big difference

 

[Skull Pilot]

And I'm not picking on anyone if you people want to whine about "fair share" then you should define just what exactly a "fair share" of income is and everyone should pay it

Idiot. Fair share of taxes is what I pay according to the tax code as written by congress.

That what ALL tax filers do. Pay according to the tax code.

When you are not paying your Fair share of taxes, it means you have found a way to cheat the tax code.

Low wage earners are not "cheating". Are you?

But when the tax code is patently unfair it must be changed

THAT"S what I'm talking about changing the tax code so everyone pays the same share of their income

I never said anyone was cheating I said they were getting a free ride by not having to pay any income tax at all

 

[Skull Pilot]

Most have no idea what they are going to get so how do they plan their budget around that?

You ever filed a fucking personal tax return?
There is a box at the bottom of page two that tells you amount of tax refund or the amount of tax owed.

Sometimes tax preparers will even tell the filer what the refund amount should be.

Why you acting so fucking stupid?

And what's your point you don't know that until you file your taxes so it cannot be counted on in your everyday budget
It's considered "extra" money that people usually blow on crap it's not saved for future expenses