Trump insults a war hero

[Freewill]

Not in any way a defense of Trump but this article does seem to put McCain in the properspective to what Trump said:

John McCain: wartime hero, peacetime coward

Blog John McCain wartime hero peacetime coward

 

[frigidweirdo]

I remember the resident Libtards blaming McCain for letting himself get shot down and captured

What do we know of him getting shot down, other than his own account?

I haven't been able to find anything other than his account. Which makes little sense. He claims he was hit by an SA-2 Guidline missile that tore the wing off of his jet. You would have to be blind to not see a SA-2 coming at you, and the A-4 is one of the aircraft that could dodge an SA-2 the easiest. There obviously is no doubt that he was shot down and severely injured from his ejection (he screwed the pooch and didn't follow proper ejection procedures, which means he either didn't know them, didn't follow them for reasons of his own, or was drunk, which jibes with what others have said). The method of his shootdown are unknown.

His account says that he was just about to release his bombs, so he went ahead with doing that rather than taking evasive action. Sounds like it wasn't the nicest experience in the sky at the time and he didn't want to go back in, so he dropped his bombs and then went to get out of there and got hit.

Was it his fault, probably, but at the same time you have a split second to make decisions in battle and sometimes you choose the wrong one. Doesn't mean he deserves to be attacked by a loser like Trump.

But it's alright for McCain to attack Trump and call thousands of his supporters crazy, huh??

It's okay for Trump to attack McCain. It's not okay for Trump to attack ALL TROOPS WHO WERE EITHER CAPTURED OR KILLED AS NOT BEING HEROES. Does that make sense to you?

He didn't just attack McCain. He attacked the military, and he has no background to do it in the arrogant, childish and petulant manner in which he did it. The same as he attacked Mexicans, not by using facts, not by doing things in a manner which represents the truth, but in a manner which appeals to stupid right wing people who get off on politicians saying the same crap that many right wing people say on forums like this, ie, without using an ounce of their brain to do so.

 

[Kondor3]

...You use rhetoric as well. It fails...

Rhetoric has its place.

And, based upon the poll-surge that we see at-work, at-present, I'm not so sure that 'fail' is an accurate characterization.

...The "invasion" that you speak of is simply an example of what humans have done since we first walked this earth...

Doesn't matter.

For most of human history, 'borders' and 'national sovereignty' were nonexistent or held far less meaning than they do in our present age.

...We move when it becomes beneficial for us to do so...

Unless the people already in possession of our intended destination object to our coming and have the power to stop us.

...Humans don't "invade" those places we move to unless we take up arms and kill or enslave the people who may already be there...

I understand your objection to the use of that emotion-invoking metaphor.

In your position, I would object, too.

I am not in your position.

...Likewise..if said inhabitants don't kill or enslave the immigrants....it's likely a mutually beneficial event...

The arrangement benefits the Invaders.

The arrangement benefits those on the other side of the fence with the money to hire them at near-slave-wages.

The arrangement does not benefit the millions of American tradesmen now reduced to working for peanuts because of the Invaders and those willing to employ them.

Although white-collar myself, I stand with our suffering American tradesmen in this matter, even at times when their own corrupt and subverted Organized Labor mouthpieces will not.

...Your characterization of immigrants as "invaders" puts you in a camp with people who haven't given the matter enough thought and therefore cannot contribute to the discussion positively. Just like Trump. Well done.

Nonsense.

I understand your need to denigrate and trivialize and caricaturize those who stand opposite you in this matter, but it will avail you nothing.

Trump is a clown in many respects... he brings no useful solutions to the table... but he begins the process, by serving-up Tough Talk on the subject.

Something missing from the American Political Dialogue for a very long time now - too long, judging by recent poll results.

And, in light of your own reluctance to come to that realization, I'm content to see that I'm not the only one susceptible to charges of not giving something sufficient thought.

 

[Toro]

I do find it funny that the same people who called McCain names like "Juan McAmnesty" are the ones who are horrified, just horrified, that Trump dissed McCain's war record.

If the right wing really respected McCain, they'd have made him the nominee in 2000.

Now, yeah, in a sane world, this should be the end of Trump. But the fact is, the people who make up the GOP base have never forgiven McCain for losing to Obama.

And that is a HUGE difference between Democrats and Republicans. You don't see Democrats unloading on Michael Dukakis or Al Gore or John Kerry. Because we know that in every presidential cycle, there can, at the end of the day, only be one winner.

Well, that and Democrats just got so used to losing!

lol

LOL, but that is also not so true.

Lets look at this:

1932 FDR -D
1936 FDR - D
1940 FDR - D
1944 FDR - D
1948 Truman - D
1952 Ike - R
1956 Ike - R
1960 JFK - D
1964 LBJ - D
1968 Nixon -R
1972 Nixon - R
1976 Carter - D
1980 Reagan - R
1984 Reagan - R
1988 Bush 41 - R
1992 Clinton - D
1996 Clinton - D
2000 Bush 43 - R
2004 Bush 43 - R
2008 Obama -D
2012 Obama - D

80 years, 21 cycles, 12 D, 9 R.

Reduce that to the 14 cycles since 1960, it's 7 D, 7 R.

Any other thoughts?

First, I was joking.

Second, in the 40 years between 1952 and 1992, Republicans won 7 of 10 elections. And the joke at the time was that Democrats couldn't win an election with two Democrat candidates. Like Jay Leno's joke: "Michael Dukakis said this week that he was a Democrat in the Democrat tradition. What's that, losing every state except Massachusetts?"

We'll probably be making the same joke about Republicans in 2024.

 

[KissMy]

you guys loved trashing the war hero Kerry

Kerry was no war hero, fool

Neither was John McCain.

McCain crashed 5 jets, plus he bombed the USS Forestall causing 295 US casualties, 134 dead, 16 injured. McCain turned on his afterburner on to show off without the blast shield up and ignited the plane behind him. This was covered up because his father commanded the Pacific fleet. He was immediately whisked away by chopper because the crew wanted blood. He was a goof off in high school and at the academy, finished at the bottom of his class and his record in the navy was such that he saw no opportunity to advance to the admiralty so chose politics instead & sucks at that as well.

A burger flipper would have been fired for spitting on a burger, but McCain, gets protected.

 

[bodecea]

Amazing how quickly the right will turn against veterans. Here's a guy who was captured and tortured in the name of his country, against a man born into wealth who was able to defer service multiple times.

I'm not the least bit surprised what side the lunatic right has chosen.

Oh bite me. The left has derided McCain's service and POW standing right on this USMB board.

Senator McCain not POW McCain was insulting the shit out of Trump and his followers.

Trump fired back. Too bad so sad. About time someone slapped McCain upside the head for an insult.

When did they do that? And if anyone did...they would be wrong. I know I certainly DID NOT.

 

[Statistikhengst]

I do find it funny that the same people who called McCain names like "Juan McAmnesty" are the ones who are horrified, just horrified, that Trump dissed McCain's war record.

If the right wing really respected McCain, they'd have made him the nominee in 2000.

Now, yeah, in a sane world, this should be the end of Trump. But the fact is, the people who make up the GOP base have never forgiven McCain for losing to Obama.

And that is a HUGE difference between Democrats and Republicans. You don't see Democrats unloading on Michael Dukakis or Al Gore or John Kerry. Because we know that in every presidential cycle, there can, at the end of the day, only be one winner.

Well, that and Democrats just got so used to losing!

lol

LOL, but that is also not so true.

Lets look at this:

1932 FDR -D
1936 FDR - D
1940 FDR - D
1944 FDR - D
1948 Truman - D
1952 Ike - R
1956 Ike - R
1960 JFK - D
1964 LBJ - D
1968 Nixon -R
1972 Nixon - R
1976 Carter - D
1980 Reagan - R
1984 Reagan - R
1988 Bush 41 - R
1992 Clinton - D
1996 Clinton - D
2000 Bush 43 - R
2004 Bush 43 - R
2008 Obama -D
2012 Obama - D

80 years, 21 cycles, 12 D, 9 R.

Reduce that to the 14 cycles since 1960, it's 7 D, 7 R.

Any other thoughts?

First, I was joking.

Second, in the 40 years between 1952 and 1992, Republicans won 7 of 10 elections. And the joke at the time was that Democrats couldn't win an election with two Democrat candidates. Like Jay Leno's joke: "Michael Dukakis said this week that he was a Democrat in the Democrat tradition. What's that, losing every state except Massachusetts?"

We'll probably be making the same joke about Republicans in 2024.

Oh, that was a Canadian joke!!!

 

[Freewill]

I've trashed McCains record as a slimeball lying pandering war hawk politician. The idea that the left banged on his military service....beyond noting his less than stellar record with aviation accidents....is bull. He walked the walk, nutters.

Bullshit, you libs were trashing his war record and you know it. Your favorite nickname for him was "Songbird McCain". Don't try to gloss it over, liar.

Liar.

You know just so much that isn't so.

Disgraceful: Chris Matthews Smears John McCain as an 'Angry' Vietnam Vet Having a 'Flashback' - See more at: Disgraceful Chris Matthews Smears John McCain as an Angry Vietnam Vet Having a Flashback

Smear or story? CNN.com readers react to McCain report

Is McCain's War Record Fair Game?

But farther to the left - and among some of McCain's conservative enemies as well - harsher attacks are circulating. Critics have accused McCain of war crimes for bombing targets in Hanoi in the 1960s. Sunday, a widely read liberal blog accused McCain of "disloyalty" during his captivity in Vietnam for his coerced participation in propaganda films and interviews after he'd been tortured.

"A lot of people don't know… that McCain made a propaganda video for the enemy while he was in captivity," wrote Americablog's John Aravosis. "Putting that bit of disloyalty aside, what exactly is McCain's military experience that prepares him for being commander in chief?"

"Getting shot down, tortured, and then doing propaganda for the enemy is not command experience," Aravosis wrote in the blog post, entitled "Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?"

 

[bodecea]

I'm appalled that people who claim to be conservatives are defending an attack against McCain which is aimed at insulting his military service as it relates to having been a Prisoner of War.

Disagree with McCain's politics all you want, decry his positions on immigration, whatever. Do not insult on for having been held captive in conjunction with is military service during an armed conflict. For fuck's sake, that's right there up with the radical fucktard liberals who would spit in soldiers' faces when they came back home.

They're going all out crazy for Trump right now.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

It's okay for Trump to attack McCain. It's not okay for Trump to attack ALL TROOPS WHO WERE EITHER CAPTURED OR KILLED AS NOT BEING HEROES. Does that make sense to you?

He didn't just attack McCain. He attacked the military, and he has no background to do it in the arrogant, childish and petulant manner in which he did it. The same as he attacked Mexicans, not by using facts, not by doing things in a manner which represents the truth, but in a manner which appeals to stupid right wing people who get off on politicians saying the same crap that many right wing people say on forums like this, ie, without using an ounce of their brain to do so.

Please provide proof of you assertion, he talked about McCain and that he WAS a hero but he was only a hero for being captured.

Donald said he liked those who did not get captured.

Where is that exact quote in which he paints the whole military as what??

 

[Kondor3]

Trump was wrong to attack McCain's military and war service and his time as a POW.

Even if McSame threw the first punch, Trump's counter-punch was the wrong one.

Trump just shot himself in the foot, in the eyes of millions of US military veterans.

Which, in turn, has a snowball effect, amongst the general population.

The only way out of this for The Donald is a personal apology from Trump to McCain, made public.

But that's never gonna happen.

He lacks the character and humility to do what is right, in this context.

Pity.

Trump has been providing good service as a Tough Talker with respect to Illegal Aliens and so-called Immigration Reform.

Tough Talk that has been missing from the American Political Scene for a very long time now, and which resonates with Middle America.

Trump has yet to serve-up any viable Solutions in connection with all that, but even just the Tough Talk, by itself, has been welcome, and a good start.

But, it's the fate of Arrogant Men that they eventually insert their feet into their big mouths, on some issue or another that is near-and-dear to the American Public.

Looks like Trump managed to accomplish that a little earlier than most folks expected.

Perhaps it's better that way.

In any event, we'll know soon enough, whether this was a Fatal Mistake for Trump.

 

[Lakhota]

Trump isn't taking care of them either.

He has plenty of money to do something to help them.

Trump does not have enough money to take care of all our veterans. That's the government's responsibility, i.e. taxpayers.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Vets will tell you in overwhelming percentages that Kerry was a disgrace

Oh, did overwhelming percentages of vets serve alongside John Kerry?....

You realize that percentages aren't contingent upon large numbers I.E. the total number of vets. Thus my statement applies especially to the vets who served with Kerry. Though, it could be applicable to vets in general b/c they all know about his BS, which includes lying about burning villages. So, yea overwhelming percentages, fucker.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Today's political talk shows will feature any number of GOP hatchet men and women chopping away at the the trunk of the T-Rump tree....bark will fly...

 

[JoeB131]

I am out of prison..you ain't ......you got your head in a vice.............

please find your core beliefs LOL you are a political bipolar mobius..

I have a c ore belief. It's called "Pragmatism". I go with what works or what is in my best interests.

 

[bodecea]

I'm appalled that people who claim to be conservatives are defending an attack against McCain which is aimed at insulting his military service as it relates to having been a Prisoner of War.

Disagree with McCain's politics all you want, decry his positions on immigration, whatever. Do not insult on for having been held captive in conjunction with is military service during an armed conflict. For fuck's sake, that's right there up with the radical fucktard liberals who would spit in soldiers' faces when they came back home.

Even a broken clock is accurate twice a day, and that's what we have here.

I agree.

As much as it pains me to say it.

The Donald scares the shit out of the Republican Old Guard.

The vast numbers of Americans who (1) are not Democrats and (2) are sick-and-tired of existing Republican leadership - those folks see Trump as a breath of fresh air.

This is especially true when it comes to Trump's perspective on dealing with that 12,000,000 -strong plague of locusts that we call Illegal Aliens.

And, when that 'breath of fresh air' screws-up in a big way - as Trump did vs. McCain - it's difficult to concede the point, for fear of losing momentum.

Even most Trump supporters will realize Trump was wrong - and concede the point - given a day or two or three.

But, until they snap out of it, concede that it was wrong, call for an apology to McSame, then move beyond this 'glitch'... yeah... unfortunately... you've got a point.

Then again, it's nothing worse than some of the backstabbing that we see going-on, Left-of-Center, on the Democratic side of the aisle, from time to time.

They, too, can play the part of the Insensitive and Inappropriate and Scheming and Backstabbing Bastard, without even breaking a sweat.

You make some good points except for what I bolded and underlined. You'd think that's what would happen but I'm seeing the opposite, at least here.

What I'm seeing is that initial gasp and dismay over Trump attacking McCain's POW status...then, over time, justification and agreement. They are talking themselves into agreeing with Trump.

 

[SwimExpert]

They are talking themselves into agreeing with Trump.

Indeed, this is what the majority of Americans nowadays do when it comes to politics.

 

[LoneLaugher]

...You use rhetoric as well. It fails...

Rhetoric has its place.

And, based upon the poll-surge that we see at-work, at-present, I'm not so sure that 'fail' is an accurate characterization.

...The "invasion" that you speak of is simply an example of what humans have done since we first walked this earth...

Doesn't matter.

For most of human history, 'borders' and 'national sovereignty' were nonexistent or held far less meaning than they do in our present age.

...We move when it becomes beneficial for us to do so...

Unless the people already in possession of our intended destination object to our coming and have the power to stop us.

...Humans don't "invade" those places we move to unless we take up arms and kill or enslave the people who may already be there...

I understand your objection to the use of that emotion-invoking metaphor.

In your position, I would object, too.

I am not in your position.

...Likewise..if said inhabitants don't kill or enslave the immigrants....it's likely a mutually beneficial event...

The arrangement benefits the Invaders.

The arrangement benefits those on the other side of the fence with the money to hire them at near-slave-wages.

The arrangement does not benefit the millions of American tradesmen now reduced to working for peanuts because of the Invaders and those willing to employ them.

Although white-collar myself, I stand with our suffering American tradesmen in this matter, even at times when their own corrupt and subverted Organized Labor mouthpieces will not.

...Your characterization of immigrants as "invaders" puts you in a camp with people who haven't given the matter enough thought and therefore cannot contribute to the discussion positively. Just like Trump. Well done.

Nonsense.

I understand your need to denigrate and trivialize and caricaturize those who stand opposite you in this matter, but it will avail you nothing.

Trump is a clown in many respects... he brings no useful solutions to the table... but he begins the process, by serving-up Tough Talk on the subject.

Something missing from the American Political Dialogue for a very long time now - too long, judging by recent poll results.

And, in light of your own reluctance to come to that realization, I'm content to see that I'm not the only one susceptible to charges of not giving something sufficient thought.

Dude.....Trumps "surge" took him to 18% of GOP primary voters. That is about 9% of the voting populace. That's it. That is his ceiling. You have bought into the simple rhetoric....and have lauded the fact that a few others have along with you.

Figure it out. He doesn't have a plan. If you support him....and despite what you are saying, you are one of his supporters....you support a man without a plan.

Enjoy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've trashed McCains record as a slimeball lying pandering war hawk politician. The idea that the left banged on his military service....beyond noting his less than stellar record with aviation accidents....is bull. He walked the walk, nutters.

Bullshit, you libs were trashing his war record and you know it. Your favorite nickname for him was "Songbird McCain". Don't try to gloss it over, liar.

Liar.

You know just so much that isn't so.

Disgraceful: Chris Matthews Smears John McCain as an 'Angry' Vietnam Vet Having a 'Flashback' - See more at: Disgraceful Chris Matthews Smears John McCain as an Angry Vietnam Vet Having a Flashback

Smear or story? CNN.com readers react to McCain report

Is McCain's War Record Fair Game?

But farther to the left - and among some of McCain's conservative enemies as well - harsher attacks are circulating. Critics have accused McCain of war crimes for bombing targets in Hanoi in the 1960s. Sunday, a widely read liberal blog accused McCain of "disloyalty" during his captivity in Vietnam for his coerced participation in propaganda films and interviews after he'd been tortured.

"A lot of people don't know… that McCain made a propaganda video for the enemy while he was in captivity," wrote Americablog's John Aravosis. "Putting that bit of disloyalty aside, what exactly is McCain's military experience that prepares him for being commander in chief?"

"Getting shot down, tortured, and then doing propaganda for the enemy is not command experience," Aravosis wrote in the blog post, entitled "Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?"

Gee, I thought you were going to tell me when I ever called McCain 'Songbird McCain'.

 

[bodecea]

McCain insults Trump and his followers and Trump's just supposed to eat it?

I don't fucking think so. The old bastard has shot off his mouth one too many times and frankly it's refreshing to witness someone pushing back.

That's the thing right there. Americans have been hearing crap from politicians all of our lives; we've been preached at and threatened and ripped off and lied to and our intelligence insulted til we crave some non-politician to come along and put all of these ungrateful, corrupt, lying, self-serving bitches and bastards in their place. This is why Americans are flocking to Trump, and I say good for him and good for us. F**k Trump-haters.

I cannot understand why anyone would think to call you "crazie".