Trump orders colleges to back free speech or lose funding

[martybegan]

Those are grants to the students, not the institutions. Liberty is quite clear on that.

Denying student loan money to students based on what accredited university they goes to violates the students rights, has nothing to do with the institution in question.

Plus most of that money is in the form of loans, not grants.

That still makes it not as clear cut as your argument made it. It's a fine line.

its actually a very easy line. If the money goes to the students to pay for tuition, its to the students. if the money goes to the institution for studies, research or whatever, it's to the institution.

I guess at Liberty University government progams are a good thing.

They don't take funding from the government for their own programs, research, or studies. Students get student loans and maybe pell grants.

Quit while you are ahead here, you aren't making the point you want to make.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars.

Now you are just running out of attempted points to make.

 

[iceberg]

Duckworth on NFL anthem policy: I fought to defend right to take a knee in protest

every soldier did. so what again. no one is saying they don't have the right to take a knee. As always, your poop between the ears is affecting your thought process.

The argument was that if you had served you would never defend those who kneel. Not true.

You clueless dumb shit.

If you wish to discuss this above the level of a 12 year old, great. Otherwise I'm not interested.

It's clear that you were never interested in the first place.

it's clear you're an idiot. the rest is debatable.

 

[jc456]

then why can't trump stop the DACA EO?

The courts have wrong stepped in. In this case it wouldn't have really mattered as Trump wouldn't have actually done anything. But in the end, it's still in the courts which is kinda my point. Even if Trump tried to enforce this it will be tied up in the courts until after he is gone.

EO's are not about doing the right thing. EO's are about dividing.

BTW, I agree, I don't like EOs at all. but, and I use this gracefully, when the congress refuses to work with a president, the president has no other options to act for the majority of citizens. Get the swamp cleaned out and eliminate the EOs. it's really that simple. get the legislators to do their jobs. impeach, impeach. The same was true for obammy. i didn't like that either.

Trump NEVER tries. He never goes before Congress to push for something. He never goes before the country to argue why he needs something passed. He tweets and signs EO's. I am not singling Trump out here either......EO's are the realm of the lazy.

I think Bush is a piece of crap but I wouldn't put him in the same lazy category as Obama and Trump.

sure he does. he invites them in and they bash him. every fking time. In fact, the last time Peloser stood up in a hissy fit and waved her finger and left. How immature.

Inviting Pelosi anywhere is a waste of time. Take your argument to Congress and the people. That is what Reagan did. That is what Bush did. Bush gets condemned not for doing that but by lying to the Congress and the people to get what he wanted.

he takes his message to the people frequently. Heard of his rallies? here about the SOTU? what is it you feel he should do? CNN, abc, cbs,nbc or any main MSM wouldn't give him the time of day. he addresses the public every time he goes to his chopper. he stands there and takes questions. no other president ever did that. please. more fact.

 

[rightwinger]

So when Pete Buttengeig wants to speak at Liberty University and he is banned because he is gay......

Will Trump support his First Amendment rights?

 

[iceberg]

Trump orders colleges to back free speech or lose funding

President Donald Trump signed an executive order Thursday requiring U.S. colleges to protect free speech on their campuses or risk losing federal research funding.

The new order directs federal agencies to ensure that any college or university receiving research grants agrees to promote free speech and the exchange of ideas, and to follow federal rules guiding free expression.

“Even as universities have received billions and billions of dollars from taxpayers, many have become increasingly hostile to free speech and to the First Amendment,” Trump said at a White House signing ceremony. “These universities have tried to restrict free thought, impose total conformity and shut down the voices of great young Americans.”
---
see link for the rest of the story.

but good. if they're not going to allow both sides equal time, then no $ for you.

And I thought you guys opposed the Fairness Dictrine.

More big government.

And just how is the FCC involved?

You supporting a similar thing, mandating equal time for "both" side . Are there only two sides? Who decides? Who defines?

Bad idea.

And if we didn't have people shutting down other sides, not needed.

but we do.

 

[martybegan]

What right does Trump have to condemn free speech in the NFL while condemning colleges for doing the same?

A speaker spews hate about Muslims, Mexicans and Gays and a College says he is not welcome

A football player silently protests police killings of African Americans and the President is outraged

Because the two situations are in no way related?

And it isn't speakers spewing hate, and even if it was, let them speak. the best disinfectant is sunlight, not shadows.

The speakers being denied are being CALLED fascists, but are in no way, shape, or form, fascist.

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

Weasel statement. She was invited by a student group to speak, like all other groups that invite speakers do. CAL weaseled out just like you are trying to do. Either you support free speech or you don't, and you obviously don't, but don't have the balls to admit it.

You are trying to blame the victim here, like a fucking weasel, you fucking weasel.

Now go back and lie again about having access issues. you probably just forgot your fucking password.

 

[jc456]

i prefer "we the people" decide and leave it at that. but when there are colleges who actively silence dissenting opinions, they need to know that's a party foul. if you're going to give one side campus resources for their ideas, it goes to all.

You're too simple to understand consequences, Simon. I doubt you ever attended a U. or 4-year college, and don't understand that free speech on campuses began at CAL in the 60's; then, the establishment with the go ahead from Reagan used tear gas and SWAT teams to quell a non violent protest.

Trump is a reactive and impulsive actor, one who never seems to consider consequences beyond what he wants, now. The facts we have seen is he never takes advice before he acts, and when consequences foreseen by others occur, he blames others for those consquences.

As my colleague rightwinger posted, what if Liberty University is inundated by supporters of abortion, or athiests who argue there is no god and pose all of the arguments in opposition to the clergy as nothing more than demagogues and charlatans?

The students you speak of liked college so much that some of them never left

they infest our universities and use their power to restrict conservative speakers

I'm curious as to where you get your information about college students. There are hundreds if not thousands of colleges and universities in the U.S. Who is "infesting" anywhere?

I follow the news and its obvious that our major universities are run by leftists

Ironically enough, if you actually went to a college and took a course in Logic you'd know on day one that "Everybody Knows..." is a classic logical fallacy.

how about 'all americans' say shit? using the everybody knows or all americans, same thing. use the word many, more, many other words to use.

 

[martybegan]

Because the two situations are in no way related?

And it isn't speakers spewing hate, and even if it was, let them speak. the best disinfectant is sunlight, not shadows.

The speakers being denied are being CALLED fascists, but are in no way, shape, or form, fascist.

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

She has no right to speak at a private or public university.

really? says who? link!!!!!!

He ignores the fact that the Students have the ability to invite speakers, as per college bylaws, which in the case of Public universities are bound to the 1st amendment.

But what do you expect from an SJW weasel?

 

[pknopp]

That still makes it not as clear cut as your argument made it. It's a fine line.

its actually a very easy line. If the money goes to the students to pay for tuition, its to the students. if the money goes to the institution for studies, research or whatever, it's to the institution.

I guess at Liberty University government progams are a good thing.

They don't take funding from the government for their own programs, research, or studies. Students get student loans and maybe pell grants.

Quit while you are ahead here, you aren't making the point you want to make.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars.

Now you are just running out of attempted points to make.

What has been the historical argument from the right about getting into bed with the government?

 

[Mac-7]

What is going to happen as soon as Trumps mandate goes into effect is a far left speaker who wants to talk about abortion rights will apply to speak at Liberty University

Then Trump will be forced to show how sincere he is about freedom of speech

I already pointed out to you that Liberty does not receive federal funds

so like the song says, Sumthin from nuthin leaves nuthin

Of course they do.
Conservatives make sure of it

Liberty University - Wikipedia


Federal funding
In 2010, students received about $445 million in federal financial aid money in 2010, the highest total of any school in Virginia and one of the highest in the country

That money goes to the students

Are liberals going deny an education to conservative students ?

It also includes grant money

Liberty gets no federal or state grant money

 

[martybegan]

Because the two situations are in no way related?

And it isn't speakers spewing hate, and even if it was, let them speak. the best disinfectant is sunlight, not shadows.

The speakers being denied are being CALLED fascists, but are in no way, shape, or form, fascist.

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

yea, shovel that shit up and eat, son.

what you're saying is if i threaten you with violence, you must do as i ask OR ELSE.

what a complete moron.

He thinks the heckler's veto is A-OK, and that it gives people in authority a way out when they knuckle under in situations they want to knuckle under, but know it would look bad without outside pressure.

"we want to ban her, but we would look stupid, OOH LOOK SOME MORONS ARE THREATENING VIOLENCE!, sorry, we had to act in the interest of safety (snicker)"

 

[martybegan]

and we have less riots when the left has guest speakers on campus?

just because a group of anti-fa protests someone speaking on a campus is no reason to say "ok, gosh. you may get violent so we need to call this off". i do NOT advocate their violence or anyone elses. but the potential for it should not be a deciding factor in why someone should be allowed to speak or not. if someone in the anti-fa breaks a law, arrest them.

giving in is only going to empower them to do it again.

No one "invites" Antifa to these protests--they sneak/trickle in and once there is a big enough crowd to hid themselves, they get to work. They are not part of the college community and do not belong on campus. If I were a campus security official, I would make sure that anyone wearing a mask or bandanna over their face would be removed without further discussion.

The ONLY thing this EO shows is that the President is watching too much Fox.

That's bullshit. The campus groups that oppose the speakers I am sure have contacts with the more radical protest groups, and I'm sure some are attending the schools in question. given Anti-fa's penchant for masks, saying "they aren't part of us" is a convinent excuse used by SJW types on campus to get what they want and proclaim their hands clean.

Make up whatever scenarios you like, Marty. You have absolutely no basis for that, except that you would like it to be true. Security personnel and left wing protest organizers tell the real story.

Bullshit. Plenty of on campus groups protest and disrupt the speeches of right leaning groups and people. Hell they even form groups specifically for that purpose.

Violent Middlebury protesters injure professor, force invited speaker to flee lecture hall - FIRE

As soon as Murray took the stage, students stood up, turned their backs to him and started various chants that were loud enough and in unison such that he could not talk over them.

Violent Middlebury protesters injure professor, force invited speaker to flee lecture hall - FIRE

"The Fire"?

Your video doesn't show anyone "forced to flee" -- did you even watch it?

Are you actually saying that whatever crackpot you want has an inherent right to be heard on any college campus you don't even attend, while the students who ARE on that campus ----- do not?

The FIRE defends both sides of the political spectrum, their only goal is free speech.

Again doing the "dismiss the source to avoid arguing the point" maneuver by slick po-gutless.

She was invited by other Students, they have the ability to do so.

 

[pknopp]

The courts have wrong stepped in. In this case it wouldn't have really mattered as Trump wouldn't have actually done anything. But in the end, it's still in the courts which is kinda my point. Even if Trump tried to enforce this it will be tied up in the courts until after he is gone.

EO's are not about doing the right thing. EO's are about dividing.

BTW, I agree, I don't like EOs at all. but, and I use this gracefully, when the congress refuses to work with a president, the president has no other options to act for the majority of citizens. Get the swamp cleaned out and eliminate the EOs. it's really that simple. get the legislators to do their jobs. impeach, impeach. The same was true for obammy. i didn't like that either.

Trump NEVER tries. He never goes before Congress to push for something. He never goes before the country to argue why he needs something passed. He tweets and signs EO's. I am not singling Trump out here either......EO's are the realm of the lazy.

I think Bush is a piece of crap but I wouldn't put him in the same lazy category as Obama and Trump.

sure he does. he invites them in and they bash him. every fking time. In fact, the last time Peloser stood up in a hissy fit and waved her finger and left. How immature.

Inviting Pelosi anywhere is a waste of time. Take your argument to Congress and the people. That is what Reagan did. That is what Bush did. Bush gets condemned not for doing that but by lying to the Congress and the people to get what he wanted.

he takes his message to the people frequently. Heard of his rallies? here about the SOTU? what is it you feel he should do? CNN, abc, cbs,nbc or any main MSM wouldn't give him the time of day. he addresses the public every time he goes to his chopper. he stands there and takes questions. no other president ever did that. please. more fact.

Maybe you have a point........I don't know........what I've seen from his rallies have been him making fun of people. Calling people names.......lying. Is there more to them? I suppose I have no idea.

It's hard to convince people you are right when this is your typical actions. Trump praises Manchin and then Manchin does one thing that Trump doesn't like (which also made no difference to anything) his reaction is to call him a name (a really stupid name at that). Manchin should now want to work with him again?

 

[2aguy]

Trump orders colleges to back free speech or lose funding

President Donald Trump signed an executive order Thursday requiring U.S. colleges to protect free speech on their campuses or risk losing federal research funding.

The new order directs federal agencies to ensure that any college or university receiving research grants agrees to promote free speech and the exchange of ideas, and to follow federal rules guiding free expression.

“Even as universities have received billions and billions of dollars from taxpayers, many have become increasingly hostile to free speech and to the First Amendment,” Trump said at a White House signing ceremony. “These universities have tried to restrict free thought, impose total conformity and shut down the voices of great young Americans.”
---
see link for the rest of the story.

but good. if they're not going to allow both sides equal time, then no $ for you.

And I thought you guys opposed the Fairness Dictrine.

More big government.

And just how is the FCC involved?

You supporting a similar thing, mandating equal time for "both" side . Are there only two sides? Who decides? Who defines?

Bad idea.

No, moron.....when a group at the college brings in a speaker...the college has to allow those people to speak...instead of lying and jacking up the fees so the conservative speakers can't make the appearance....you dope....

See......the college isn't brining in the speaker, conservative groups are, and then the college left wing fascists tell them they have to cancel the event because they can't protect the speaker...or they jack up the fees for protecting the speaker from left wing fascists....

 

[iceberg]

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

yea, shovel that shit up and eat, son.

what you're saying is if i threaten you with violence, you must do as i ask OR ELSE.

what a complete moron.

He thinks the heckler's veto is A-OK, and that it gives people in authority a way out when they knuckle under in situations they want to knuckle under, but know it would look bad without outside pressure.

"we want to ban her, but we would look stupid, OOH LOOK SOME MORONS ARE THREATENING VIOLENCE!, sorry, we had to act in the interest of safety (snicker)"

Then what happens when an event is sponsored by the left and people on the right threaten violence?

suddenly its a different path

 

[Pogo]

No one "invites" Antifa to these protests--they sneak/trickle in and once there is a big enough crowd to hid themselves, they get to work. They are not part of the college community and do not belong on campus. If I were a campus security official, I would make sure that anyone wearing a mask or bandanna over their face would be removed without further discussion.

The ONLY thing this EO shows is that the President is watching too much Fox.

That's bullshit. The campus groups that oppose the speakers I am sure have contacts with the more radical protest groups, and I'm sure some are attending the schools in question. given Anti-fa's penchant for masks, saying "they aren't part of us" is a convinent excuse used by SJW types on campus to get what they want and proclaim their hands clean.

Make up whatever scenarios you like, Marty. You have absolutely no basis for that, except that you would like it to be true. Security personnel and left wing protest organizers tell the real story.

Bullshit. Plenty of on campus groups protest and disrupt the speeches of right leaning groups and people. Hell they even form groups specifically for that purpose.

Violent Middlebury protesters injure professor, force invited speaker to flee lecture hall - FIRE

As soon as Murray took the stage, students stood up, turned their backs to him and started various chants that were loud enough and in unison such that he could not talk over them.

Violent Middlebury protesters injure professor, force invited speaker to flee lecture hall - FIRE

"The Fire"?

Your video doesn't show anyone "forced to flee" -- did you even watch it?

Are you actually saying that whatever crackpot you want has an inherent right to be heard on any college campus you don't even attend, while the students who ARE on that campus ----- do not?

The FIRE defends both sides of the political spectrum, their only goal is free speech.

Again doing the "dismiss the source to avoid arguing the point" maneuver by slick po-gutless.

She was invited by other Students, they have the ability to do so.

You didn't address the questions. Did you.

You don't seem to have even read your own link either, as you just called Charls Murray "she".

Again, this Charles Murray --- "she", if you prefer -- was invited, and showed up.
And?

 

[rightwinger]

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

He didn’t protect free speech in the NFL

That's not free speech nitwit....they work for the NFL....

You need to read more than the second amendment

still need someone to explain it to you in 1st grader terms?

It might help Trump understand the First Amendment

 

[martybegan]

ahhh so the talking points have arrived huh? you're now the second one with the same statement. they call that boilerplating. oops. antifa started at Universities.

Antifa started in Europe during WWII, you jerk. I'm telling you what left wing protesters have said. They ought to know--they were there, which you weren't.

That is possibly one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen on this board. SHE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED dumb.

It was loser college age kids who pushed the nazi's back?

Anti-fa is to actual anti-fascists as MTV currently is to music.

Try educating yourself. It's a lot more convincing than just making up shit.
Antifa (United States) - Wikipedia

Wow, back to Mussolini?
These spoiled children have nothing to do with the anti-fa groups of the past.

Also, Groups like Red Army Faction, Action Directe, and the Red Brigades all claimed to be "anti-fascist"

Do you think today's groups are the same as those others?

Do you purport to speak FOR them?

Where did you get that from my statement?

 

[rightwinger]

What is going to happen as soon as Trumps mandate goes into effect is a far left speaker who wants to talk about abortion rights will apply to speak at Liberty University

Then Trump will be forced to show how sincere he is about freedom of speech

I already pointed out to you that Liberty does not receive federal funds

so like the song says, Sumthin from nuthin leaves nuthin

Of course they do.
Conservatives make sure of it

Liberty University - Wikipedia


Federal funding
In 2010, students received about $445 million in federal financial aid money in 2010, the highest total of any school in Virginia and one of the highest in the country

That money goes to the students

Are liberals going deny an education to conservative students ?

It also includes grant money

Liberty gets no federal or state grant money

They sure do

 

[Mac-7]

So when Pete Buttengeig wants to speak at Liberty University and he is banned because he is gay......

Will Trump support his First Amendment rights?

I suspect that if a student group invites mayor buttfuck he will be allowed to speak

but either way there are no federal funds to take away from Liberty