Trump orders colleges to back free speech or lose funding

[pknopp]

any christian college that denies gays, atheists, muslims, liberals, feminists, evolutionists to speak on campus.

Examples? Remember in the cases where the left has suppressed speech, it was student groups FROM THE INSTITUTION IN QUESTION that invited said speakers that were either denied access, or harassed by the admin and protesters.

In this specific case another question must be asked, do said institutions take federal grant money? (the issue of public vs private institution is moot as no religious college or university is public)

They do participate in the federal student loan programs.

Student Loans | Student Financial Services | Liberty University

Those are grants to the students, not the institutions. Liberty is quite clear on that.

Denying student loan money to students based on what accredited university they goes to violates the students rights, has nothing to do with the institution in question.

Plus most of that money is in the form of loans, not grants.

That still makes it not as clear cut as your argument made it. It's a fine line.

its actually a very easy line. If the money goes to the students to pay for tuition, its to the students. if the money goes to the institution for studies, research or whatever, it's to the institution.

I guess at Liberty University government progams are a good thing.

 

[jc456]

Dems have a new slogan now- Resist. During Reagan’s time there were those that were willing to compromise. Compromise is not part of their language or strategy anymore. It is to simply resist.

Leaders lead. They do not make excuses.

So, a non reply. Got it.

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

leaders get people to follow their lead.

how you choose to break that down to your own definition is fine. but that doesn't make your views on it the only views of what constitutes leadership. if you don't feel trump is a leader, great. to you he's not.

to millions of others, he is.

His EO will accomplish nothing. Just like the rest of them because they are not backed up by law.

that's doubletalk that didn't say shit.

 

[BS Filter]

Is the Trumpybear offering grants for security for our students, or do they expect the Universities or the States to pick up the tab to ensure that all our children are safe on campus when controversial or extreme Pundants are invited by a Student Group.?

The "children" are the problem. They throw a temper tantrum when someone with adult ideas enters their safe space.

My bad, I should have realize this is another sad re-hash of a hot button issue.......

Last year, the University of California, Berkeley, campus literally erupted in flames as a planned speech by conservative provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos devolved into violence: stones and fireworks were hurled at police, windows were shattered, riots turned injurious. Though the destruction then came from off-campus groups, for the next few months, highly public battles around free expression were waged at the birthplace of the Free Speech Movement.

President Trump raised a threat of yanking federal funds over the university’s response to Yiannopoulos (he mischaracterized the situation, saying Berkeley had not allowed Yiannopoulos to speak, when in fact the institution did give him permission).

The former Breitbart editor tried to visit the campus again several months after the protests for a “free speech week” -- declaring he would challenge the status quo grip of liberalism on the campus. The event forced the university to shell out about $1 million in security, though the planned events largely fizzled. Ann Coulter, the hot-button author, also sent her online following after the institution after she had been invited to speak there, but perceived a lack of support by administrators for her talk (she ultimately never appeared). Two conservative student groups filed a federal lawsuit against university officials asserting their free speech rights had been infringed.

But more than a year later, the Berkeley campus is seemingly free of such drama. It has hosted controversial right-wing figures such as TurningPoint USA leaders Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens, commentator Heather Mac Donald and talk-radio host Dennis Prager with little incident.

Students and administrators credit the change in part to the intent of the speakers coming to the university: not to rile up the student body, but instead to engage in discussion. The speakers voiced conservative views but did not insult Berkeley students or groups of students, as others had previously.

This follows two shifts on campus. Most recently, the university’s free speech policies were revised, after being vetted by a university commission. And new student groups were founded intent on promoting “civil dialogue” in wake of the fiascos with Coulter and Yiannopoulos.

New policies, student groups change the culture of free speech at Berkeley

You just proved my point. The college brats threw a temper tantrum because someone said something they didn't like.

 

[pknopp]

I disagree. Few supported Reagan's action to get us out of the stagflation when he became president. He lead though. He made his arguments. He got what he wanted. You can argue on either side whether he was a good president or not BUT he was a leader.

Trump is not.

Dems have a new slogan now- Resist. During Reagan’s time there were those that were willing to compromise. Compromise is not part of their language or strategy anymore. It is to simply resist.

Leaders lead. They do not make excuses.

So, a non reply. Got it.

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

you have no idea what leaders do. not one iota of knowledge. it's amazing, every leader did something differently. to say anything different, ignores history. and since it's you, that poop between your ears are affecting your thought process.

EO's are temporary and very hard to enforce if they are enforced at all. This is not what leaders do.

You let us know when it's ever enforced.

 

[martybegan]

Examples? Remember in the cases where the left has suppressed speech, it was student groups FROM THE INSTITUTION IN QUESTION that invited said speakers that were either denied access, or harassed by the admin and protesters.

In this specific case another question must be asked, do said institutions take federal grant money? (the issue of public vs private institution is moot as no religious college or university is public)

They do participate in the federal student loan programs.

Student Loans | Student Financial Services | Liberty University

Those are grants to the students, not the institutions. Liberty is quite clear on that.

Denying student loan money to students based on what accredited university they goes to violates the students rights, has nothing to do with the institution in question.

Plus most of that money is in the form of loans, not grants.

That still makes it not as clear cut as your argument made it. It's a fine line.

its actually a very easy line. If the money goes to the students to pay for tuition, its to the students. if the money goes to the institution for studies, research or whatever, it's to the institution.

I guess at Liberty University government progams are a good thing.

They don't take funding from the government for their own programs, research, or studies. Students get student loans and maybe pell grants.

Quit while you are ahead here, you aren't making the point you want to make.

 

[jc456]

No one "invites" Antifa to these protests--they sneak/trickle in and once there is a big enough crowd to hid themselves, they get to work. They are not part of the college community and do not belong on campus. If I were a campus security official, I would make sure that anyone wearing a mask or bandanna over their face would be removed without further discussion.

The ONLY thing this EO shows is that the President is watching too much Fox.

ahhh so the talking points have arrived huh? you're now the second one with the same statement. they call that boilerplating. oops. antifa started at Universities.

Antifa started in Europe during WWII, you jerk. I'm telling you what left wing protesters have said. They ought to know--they were there, which you weren't.

That is possibly one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen on this board. SHE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED dumb.

It was loser college age kids who pushed the nazi's back?

Anti-fa is to actual anti-fascists as MTV currently is to music.

Try educating yourself. It's a lot more convincing than just making up shit.
Antifa (United States) - Wikipedia

Wow, back to Mussolini?
These spoiled children have nothing to do with the anti-fa groups of the past.

Also, Groups like Red Army Faction, Action Directe, and the Red Brigades all claimed to be "anti-fascist"

Do you think today's groups are the same as those others?

sure she does. she wouldn't have used the past to describe today.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Does the NFL get federal funding? Does the NFL purport to be open spaces for the free exchange of ideas?

What right does Trump have to condemn free speech in the NFL while condemning colleges for doing the same?

A speaker spews hate about Muslims, Mexicans and Gays and a College says he is not welcome

A football player silently protests police killings of African Americans and the President is outraged

Because the two situations are in no way related?

And it isn't speakers spewing hate, and even if it was, let them speak. the best disinfectant is sunlight, not shadows.

The speakers being denied are being CALLED fascists, but are in no way, shape, or form, fascist.

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

 

[pknopp]

Leaders lead. They do not make excuses.

So, a non reply. Got it.

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

leaders get people to follow their lead.

how you choose to break that down to your own definition is fine. but that doesn't make your views on it the only views of what constitutes leadership. if you don't feel trump is a leader, great. to you he's not.

to millions of others, he is.

His EO will accomplish nothing. Just like the rest of them because they are not backed up by law.

that's doubletalk that didn't say shit.

Let me know when this EO is enforced. It really doesn't matter to you whether or not it is though does it?

 

[jc456]

Dems have a new slogan now- Resist. During Reagan’s time there were those that were willing to compromise. Compromise is not part of their language or strategy anymore. It is to simply resist.

Leaders lead. They do not make excuses.

So, a non reply. Got it.

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

you have no idea what leaders do. not one iota of knowledge. it's amazing, every leader did something differently. to say anything different, ignores history. and since it's you, that poop between your ears are affecting your thought process.

EO's are temporary and very hard to enforce if they are enforced at all. This is not what leaders do.

You let us know when it's ever enforced.

then why do the presidents use them? obammy used it way more than trump. fk dude, he got the DACA thing on an EO. That's still active and held up by federal judges. me thinks you are mistaken.

 

[Mac-7]

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

He didn’t protect free speech in the NFL

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

You mean instead of leftist college presidents?

I prefer trump over them

i prefer "we the people" decide and leave it at that. but when there are colleges who actively silence dissenting opinions, they need to know that's a party foul. if you're going to give one side campus resources for their ideas, it goes to all.

You're too simple to understand consequences, Simon. I doubt you ever attended a U. or 4-year college, and don't understand that free speech on campuses began at CAL in the 60's; then, the establishment with the go ahead from Reagan used tear gas and SWAT teams to quell a non violent protest.

Trump is a reactive and impulsive actor, one who never seems to consider consequences beyond what he wants, now. The facts we have seen is he never takes advice before he acts, and when consequences foreseen by others occur, he blames others for those consquences.

As my colleague rightwinger posted, what if Liberty University is inundated by supporters of abortion, or athiests who argue there is no god and pose all of the arguments in opposition to the clergy as nothing more than demagogues and charlatans?

The students you speak of liked college so much that some of them never left

they infest our universities and use their power to restrict conservative speakers

 

[pknopp]

They do participate in the federal student loan programs.

Student Loans | Student Financial Services | Liberty University

Those are grants to the students, not the institutions. Liberty is quite clear on that.

Denying student loan money to students based on what accredited university they goes to violates the students rights, has nothing to do with the institution in question.

Plus most of that money is in the form of loans, not grants.

That still makes it not as clear cut as your argument made it. It's a fine line.

its actually a very easy line. If the money goes to the students to pay for tuition, its to the students. if the money goes to the institution for studies, research or whatever, it's to the institution.

I guess at Liberty University government progams are a good thing.

They don't take funding from the government for their own programs, research, or studies. Students get student loans and maybe pell grants.

Quit while you are ahead here, you aren't making the point you want to make.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars.

 

[jc456]

What right does Trump have to condemn free speech in the NFL while condemning colleges for doing the same?

A speaker spews hate about Muslims, Mexicans and Gays and a College says he is not welcome

A football player silently protests police killings of African Americans and the President is outraged

Because the two situations are in no way related?

And it isn't speakers spewing hate, and even if it was, let them speak. the best disinfectant is sunlight, not shadows.

The speakers being denied are being CALLED fascists, but are in no way, shape, or form, fascist.

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

She has no right to speak at a private or public university.

really? says who? link!!!!!!

 

[rightwinger]

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

He didn’t protect free speech in the NFL

Does the NFL receive federal funding?

Doesn’t matter

 

[iceberg]

What right does Trump have to condemn free speech in the NFL while condemning colleges for doing the same?

A speaker spews hate about Muslims, Mexicans and Gays and a College says he is not welcome

A football player silently protests police killings of African Americans and the President is outraged

Because the two situations are in no way related?

And it isn't speakers spewing hate, and even if it was, let them speak. the best disinfectant is sunlight, not shadows.

The speakers being denied are being CALLED fascists, but are in no way, shape, or form, fascist.

no, it's irony. they are pushing fascism to disallow another from speaking. they are exactly what they yell.

Coulter is an agent provocateur, well paid to rile up both supporters and detractors of trumpism. Neo fascists and Antifa - most of whom are not and never have been students in a U. or 4-year college - will promote unrest and create violence on campuses. The last thing a community in a college city needs are riots.

So she does not have the right to speak, or more importantly, paying Students of a given University of College do not have the right to invite her to speak to them?

Agent Provocateur is a weasel word.

S1: She has no right to speak at a private or public university. The fact that she and other guy were cancelled was not because CAL opposed free speech, they cancelled the event at the request of University Police and Berkeley Police fearing a riot which would have been beyond their control.

S2: a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator; someone who entices others to break the law and be arrested. Not a weasel word, though I do consider Coulter to be a weasel.

yea, shovel that shit up and eat, son.

what you're saying is if i threaten you with violence, you must do as i ask OR ELSE.

what a complete moron.

 

[pknopp]

Leaders lead. They do not make excuses.

So, a non reply. Got it.

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

you have no idea what leaders do. not one iota of knowledge. it's amazing, every leader did something differently. to say anything different, ignores history. and since it's you, that poop between your ears are affecting your thought process.

EO's are temporary and very hard to enforce if they are enforced at all. This is not what leaders do.

You let us know when it's ever enforced.

then why do the presidents use them? obammy used it way more than trump. fk dude, he got the DACA thing on an EO. That's still active and held up by federal judges. me thinks you are mistaken.

I have condemned Obama over and over for doing DACA as an EO. Yes it was the action of a lazy worthless president unwilling to actually stand behind his promises.

Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos

 

[jc456]

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

He didn’t protect free speech in the NFL

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

You mean instead of leftist college presidents?

I prefer trump over them

i prefer "we the people" decide and leave it at that. but when there are colleges who actively silence dissenting opinions, they need to know that's a party foul. if you're going to give one side campus resources for their ideas, it goes to all.

You're too simple to understand consequences, Simon. I doubt you ever attended a U. or 4-year college, and don't understand that free speech on campuses began at CAL in the 60's; then, the establishment with the go ahead from Reagan used tear gas and SWAT teams to quell a non violent protest.

Trump is a reactive and impulsive actor, one who never seems to consider consequences beyond what he wants, now. The facts we have seen is he never takes advice before he acts, and when consequences foreseen by others occur, he blames others for those consquences.

As my colleague rightwinger posted, what if Liberty University is inundated by supporters of abortion, or athiests who argue there is no god and pose all of the arguments in opposition to the clergy as nothing more than demagogues and charlatans?

The students you speak of liked college so much that some of them never left

they infest our universities and use their power to restrict conservative speakers

dude, they just arrested a father that was living in a dorm and exploiting the girls in that dorm. If you need any evidence of influential support living on campus, look no farther than here.

N.J. man who moved into daughter’s dorm at elite college charged with sex trafficking, extortion

 

[jc456]

So, a non reply. Got it.

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

you have no idea what leaders do. not one iota of knowledge. it's amazing, every leader did something differently. to say anything different, ignores history. and since it's you, that poop between your ears are affecting your thought process.

EO's are temporary and very hard to enforce if they are enforced at all. This is not what leaders do.

You let us know when it's ever enforced.

then why do the presidents use them? obammy used it way more than trump. fk dude, he got the DACA thing on an EO. That's still active and held up by federal judges. me thinks you are mistaken.

I have condemned Obama over and over for doing DACA as an EO. Yes it was the action of a lazy worthless president unwilling to actually stand behind his promises.

Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos

yep so? it still is law. an EO. so, your initial point was stupid. My post again proves I have the facts and you got shit still.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump orders colleges to back free speech or lose funding

President Donald Trump signed an executive order Thursday requiring U.S. colleges to protect free speech on their campuses or risk losing federal research funding.

Funny how he takes the direct-opposite position with the media, innit.

Rump doesn't allocate that funding anyway. If you believe this, he's got a bridge for sale too. Nice bridge. Goes nowhere.

so obammy didn't bail out the car industry?

He saved the car industry

 

[Mac-7]

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

He didn’t protect free speech in the NFL

Guess Trump gets to decide what speech he will protect

You mean instead of leftist college presidents?

I prefer trump over them

i prefer "we the people" decide and leave it at that. but when there are colleges who actively silence dissenting opinions, they need to know that's a party foul. if you're going to give one side campus resources for their ideas, it goes to all.

You're too simple to understand consequences, Simon. I doubt you ever attended a U. or 4-year college, and don't understand that free speech on campuses began at CAL in the 60's; then, the establishment with the go ahead from Reagan used tear gas and SWAT teams to quell a non violent protest.

Trump is a reactive and impulsive actor, one who never seems to consider consequences beyond what he wants, now. The facts we have seen is he never takes advice before he acts, and when consequences foreseen by others occur, he blames others for those consquences.

As my colleague rightwinger posted, what if Liberty University is inundated by supporters of abortion, or athiests who argue there is no god and pose all of the arguments in opposition to the clergy as nothing more than demagogues and charlatans?

You could cut their federal funds just as we hope to do to the liberal universities

but Liberty does not receive federal or state funding which puts you back to square one

 

[pknopp]

It was the point. Leaders lead. Trump is not a leader. Leaders do not believe name calling is how you get people to work with you. Leaders do not believe lying is how you get things accomplished. Leaders lead, they do not simply accept excuses.

you have no idea what leaders do. not one iota of knowledge. it's amazing, every leader did something differently. to say anything different, ignores history. and since it's you, that poop between your ears are affecting your thought process.

EO's are temporary and very hard to enforce if they are enforced at all. This is not what leaders do.

You let us know when it's ever enforced.

then why do the presidents use them? obammy used it way more than trump. fk dude, he got the DACA thing on an EO. That's still active and held up by federal judges. me thinks you are mistaken.

I have condemned Obama over and over for doing DACA as an EO. Yes it was the action of a lazy worthless president unwilling to actually stand behind his promises.

Obama Broke His Promise to Latinos

yep so? it still is law. an EO. so, your initial point was stupid. My post again proves I have the facts and you got shit still.

Laws can't be simply ignored. The next president can simply ignore an EO. It's not law, it's tied up in the courts. It shouldn't be.