Trump thinks he can change the Constitution via EO

[Harpy Eagle]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

"Under current policy, anyone born in the U.S. – regardless of whether they are delivered by a non-citizen or undocumented immigrant – is considered a citizen. The interpretation has been blamed for so-called 'birth tourism' and chain migration.

The 14th Amendment states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

I hope he does! It should end. It would end all these mothers having babies in our country and then leaving to go back to their country. Then coming back as they complain, "My baby was born here in the US, so that makes me a citizen, too!"

We need to do something to stop the flow of these illegals coming here. They are taking advantage of our resources. We have enough hard time trying to take care of our own. Nevermind someone's child from another country. Especially, when the parents come here illegally.

I agree it should end, but I don't think you can change a Constitutional amendment with an executive order. Does Trump actually have lawyers over there? Aren't you supposed to propose another Amendment in order to change or eliminate one?

Yup, that's what many of us thought.
A List of Obama’s Constitutional Violations

I am rather embarrassed for you posting the link.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Oh no, just don't ask me if I care, you probably wouldn't like the answer.

If you did not care you would not have responded.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

There is no guarantee of citizen for anybody that enters this country illegally.

No there is not but constitutional is clear with respect to those who born here, except those born to an agent of a foreign government. Deal with it.

 

[pismoe]

Trump is actually using an Executive Order for it's intended purpose in this case.

Specifically to issue an executive action on a question that has never been addressed by either the courts or Congress, which is the application of the 14th Amendment to children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrant or temporary legal status parents.

This isn't an attempt to CHANGE the Constitution but to force an interpretation of it from one (or both) of the other branches.

I suspect than when the dust is settled the Judicial Branch will rule in favor of birthright citizenship for the children of illegals/temporary legal status and Congress being Congress will remain mute on the question.

There is no upside

It reduces a motivation for illegal immigration. And a source of new and unwanted citizens.

And it saves we the tax payer billions each year.

Actually the exact opposite is true. I hope he tries to subvert the Constitution before the midterm. Manna from Heaven

I respectfully disagree. His base is so far gone they will NOT wake up if he tries to subvert the Constitution. They will continue to applaud because....MAGA!

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

 

[mudwhistle]

You can't fix laws by EO. This may force the supreme court to interpret the law.

A POTUS *can* fix laws by EO (e.g. Barak the Nimrod did it on several occasions) because the Executive can determine when/why/how to enforce laws through it's agencies and thanks to Congress having deferred so much of it's Constitutional Authority to the Executive those same agencies get broad discretion on the details of how those laws look when they hit the Federal Register.

That being said, Executive Orders were never intended to "fix" or "change" existing law, it's only because they've been abused for so long that the precedent has been set and half the Partisan Sheeple accept it when *their* POTUS does it.

Source: CNBC.COM original story on Axios
Trump wants to sign an order to end birthright citizenship, setting up a constitutional battle

"President Donald Trump is planning to terminate birthright citizenship, according to a report by Axios, potentially setting up another stand-off between the U.S. president and the courts.

Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil, he said Monday, according to Axios which used the exclusive interview to promote a new documentary series called "Axios on HBO."

"This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump's hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting 'anchor babies' and 'chain migration'," Axios said in its report.


Trump's comments come as he continues to push a hard anti-immigration line ahead of the midterms this month, and many experts will highlight that it's not within the president's power to change birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump reportedly said, declaring he can do it by using an executive order.

Trump said he had run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed, despite likely controversy. However, during the same interview Trump expressed surprise that Axios knew about his secret plan: "I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one," he said."

Let the fun, games and gnashing of teeth begin.

This should be an interesting court battle if President Twitter follows through with the Executive Order since the courts have never ruled on the question of whether or not the 14th Amendment applies to illegal immigrants or foreigners with temporary legal status.

Personally I don't think he's going to win this battle but I guess we'll see.

"May you live in interesting times" -- Chinese Curse

I hope some dumbass takes this to court.

You don't need to hope, if Trump follows through on this EO , it's GUARANTEED to be challenged in Court.

And blown out of the water once and for all.

Don't count on it, I would say that the chances are more than good that a SCOTUS decision will go against Trump given the social ramifications of upholding such an EO.

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals. It's original intent was to grant citizenship to freed slaves in a counter move to head of Democrats attempts to maintain slavery in the South.

 

[NightFox]

I highly doubt that.

----------------------------------------- if talking to me , this EO is simply a Tactic for his Deplorable people and on the fence Deplorables that will be going out to vote in a few days PTBW .

No, it isn't.

Trump made a promise to deal with this issue in the 2016 election.

But he's not dealing with it in the election. The 14th hasn't been an issue in congressional races until this, his last minute hail mary.

-------------------------------- the possible EO is in the news and thats all that matters . Everyone has heard about it and knows that the TRUMP wants it and thats all that matters before the upcoming election .

Of course, Trump is throwing this and the "caravan" out at the last minute to try and save the House. Is that not obvious to everyone? It has nothing to do with actually changing the meaning of the 14th.

Now IF Trump had been serious about the 14th, he'd have used having total control of Congress to pass some law preventing the mis-use by wealthy
Asians of just flying into our jurisdiction a few weeks before their due dates, and having kids here to get US (and dual) citizenship, and then fly back home and raise the kids there until it comes time for secondary school or college.

THAT would have but the "subject to the jurisdiction" issue squarely before the Supreme Court. But immigration is just a rallying cry for Trump to mislead his supporters. It's no different from "imminent invasion" by a pathetic caravan 1000 miles down stream.

I believe you're correct about all this being so much Political Theater on Trumps part, however you're off the mark regarding using Congress to pass something, Trump doesn't have "total control" of Congress since the Senate still has the legislative filibuster in place and something like what you cited isn't likely to have been able to cross the 60 vote threshold. I suspect it wouldn't even get through the HoR given the potential political fallout for Congress Critters outside of heavily conservative districts.

 

[NightFox]

You can't fix laws by EO. This may force the supreme court to interpret the law.

A POTUS *can* fix laws by EO (e.g. Barak the Nimrod did it on several occasions) because the Executive can determine when/why/how to enforce laws through it's agencies and thanks to Congress having deferred so much of it's Constitutional Authority to the Executive those same agencies get broad discretion on the details of how those laws look when they hit the Federal Register.

That being said, Executive Orders were never intended to "fix" or "change" existing law, it's only because they've been abused for so long that the precedent has been set and half the Partisan Sheeple accept it when *their* POTUS does it.

Source: CNBC.COM original story on Axios
Trump wants to sign an order to end birthright citizenship, setting up a constitutional battle

"President Donald Trump is planning to terminate birthright citizenship, according to a report by Axios, potentially setting up another stand-off between the U.S. president and the courts.

Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil, he said Monday, according to Axios which used the exclusive interview to promote a new documentary series called "Axios on HBO."

"This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump's hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting 'anchor babies' and 'chain migration'," Axios said in its report.


Trump's comments come as he continues to push a hard anti-immigration line ahead of the midterms this month, and many experts will highlight that it's not within the president's power to change birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump reportedly said, declaring he can do it by using an executive order.

Trump said he had run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed, despite likely controversy. However, during the same interview Trump expressed surprise that Axios knew about his secret plan: "I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one," he said."

Let the fun, games and gnashing of teeth begin.

This should be an interesting court battle if President Twitter follows through with the Executive Order since the courts have never ruled on the question of whether or not the 14th Amendment applies to illegal immigrants or foreigners with temporary legal status.

Personally I don't think he's going to win this battle but I guess we'll see.

"May you live in interesting times" -- Chinese Curse

I hope some dumbass takes this to court.

You don't need to hope, if Trump follows through on this EO , it's GUARANTEED to be challenged in Court.

And blown out of the water once and for all.

Don't count on it, I would say that the chances are more than good that a SCOTUS decision will go against Trump given the social ramifications of upholding such an EO.

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals.

"misinterpreted" by whom?

 

[bravoactual]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Bare in mind that a dried up dog turd sitting on a Mississippi Side Walk in August is smarter than the 5-Deferment Draft Dodging Orange Shit Gibbon.

No, 45 cannot change the Constitution by Executive Order. Wet Dreams of the Goose Stepping, Seig Heil!!! GroppenFuhrer Followers withstanding. It takes 2/3 of the States voting to Amend the Constitution.

Citizenship as a Birthright is Protected by the Constitution....not even the Dead From The Neck Russian Loving Traitors that cream in their jeans at the thought 45 doing this, it will not happen.

 

[bodecea]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

(Let’s test Gators fingers this morning...are they LefTards today?)
Tell us Gator, wouldn’t it be cool if Trump could amend the 14th with an EO?
This is a check Yes or No.

No....and it's not doable.

 

[JWBooth]

Hillary got 3M more votes than the blob

It makes for a cool consolation prize and nothing else of significance.
That vote difference came in California, which gave her all of the EC votes that were due to that state. She was going to carry California no matter what and she should have campaigned outside of Ca. maybe she would have carried enough other states to be POTUS.

 

[mudwhistle]

You can't fix laws by EO. This may force the supreme court to interpret the law.

A POTUS *can* fix laws by EO (e.g. Barak the Nimrod did it on several occasions) because the Executive can determine when/why/how to enforce laws through it's agencies and thanks to Congress having deferred so much of it's Constitutional Authority to the Executive those same agencies get broad discretion on the details of how those laws look when they hit the Federal Register.

That being said, Executive Orders were never intended to "fix" or "change" existing law, it's only because they've been abused for so long that the precedent has been set and half the Partisan Sheeple accept it when *their* POTUS does it.

I hope some dumbass takes this to court.

You don't need to hope, if Trump follows through on this EO , it's GUARANTEED to be challenged in Court.

And blown out of the water once and for all.

Don't count on it, I would say that the chances are more than good that a SCOTUS decision will go against Trump given the social ramifications of upholding such an EO.

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals.

"misinterpreted" by whom?

The courts. Who else?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You can't fix laws by EO. This may force the supreme court to interpret the law.

A POTUS *can* fix laws by EO (e.g. Barak the Nimrod did it on several occasions) because the Executive can determine when/why/how to enforce laws through it's agencies and thanks to Congress having deferred so much of it's Constitutional Authority to the Executive those same agencies get broad discretion on the details of how those laws look when they hit the Federal Register.

That being said, Executive Orders were never intended to "fix" or "change" existing law, it's only because they've been abused for so long that the precedent has been set and half the Partisan Sheeple accept it when *their* POTUS does it.

Source: CNBC.COM original story on Axios
Trump wants to sign an order to end birthright citizenship, setting up a constitutional battle

"President Donald Trump is planning to terminate birthright citizenship, according to a report by Axios, potentially setting up another stand-off between the U.S. president and the courts.

Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil, he said Monday, according to Axios which used the exclusive interview to promote a new documentary series called "Axios on HBO."

"This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump's hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting 'anchor babies' and 'chain migration'," Axios said in its report.


Trump's comments come as he continues to push a hard anti-immigration line ahead of the midterms this month, and many experts will highlight that it's not within the president's power to change birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump reportedly said, declaring he can do it by using an executive order.

Trump said he had run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed, despite likely controversy. However, during the same interview Trump expressed surprise that Axios knew about his secret plan: "I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one," he said."

Let the fun, games and gnashing of teeth begin.

This should be an interesting court battle if President Twitter follows through with the Executive Order since the courts have never ruled on the question of whether or not the 14th Amendment applies to illegal immigrants or foreigners with temporary legal status.

Personally I don't think he's going to win this battle but I guess we'll see.

"May you live in interesting times" -- Chinese Curse

I hope some dumbass takes this to court.

You don't need to hope, if Trump follows through on this EO , it's GUARANTEED to be challenged in Court.

And blown out of the water once and for all.

Don't count on it, I would say that the chances are more than good that a SCOTUS decision will go against Trump given the social ramifications of upholding such an EO.

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals. It's original intent was to grant citizenship to freed slaves in a counter move to head of Democrats attempts to maintain slavery in the South.

Yada Yada Yada...….The word "slave " is not in the amendment

 

[Thinker101]

Of course you do but then again you probably disagreed with the same "calculus" when Trump was doing the same "fire up the base on immigration" dance during the 2016 campaign, right? Seems to have worked for him then and I suspect the Presidents political advisors are in a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mode.

.. and there is no "Tinkering with the Constitution" going on, if he does actually do this EO (big IF) then it's just going to force SCOTUS to provide an interpretation of the 14th Amendment, which is something that is well within the purview of SCOTUS according to the current standards of judicial review, or do you not agree with SCOTUS having the authority to do judicial review?

He lost the PV and won the EC by 80,000 votes in 3 states. I hope they do try to overturn the Constitution by EO. What’s next? No more 1st Amendment?

Lib please Trump won the popular vote by 1 million votes in 49 of the 50 states, 30 states out right, and over 300 EC votes, Trump destroyed you.

Here is the root problem; your inability to accept facts.

The fact is your side lost, Trump is POTUS, ouch!

Hillary got 3M more votes than the blob

Just a hint, you may want to consider a political science class.

 

[NightFox]

A POTUS *can* fix laws by EO (e.g. Barak the Nimrod did it on several occasions) because the Executive can determine when/why/how to enforce laws through it's agencies and thanks to Congress having deferred so much of it's Constitutional Authority to the Executive those same agencies get broad discretion on the details of how those laws look when they hit the Federal Register.

That being said, Executive Orders were never intended to "fix" or "change" existing law, it's only because they've been abused for so long that the precedent has been set and half the Partisan Sheeple accept it when *their* POTUS does it.
You don't need to hope, if Trump follows through on this EO , it's GUARANTEED to be challenged in Court.

And blown out of the water once and for all.

Don't count on it, I would say that the chances are more than good that a SCOTUS decision will go against Trump given the social ramifications of upholding such an EO.

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals.

"misinterpreted" by whom?

The courts. Who else?

The courts haven't ruled on it, which is the whole point of the exercise, if they had Trump wouldn't be proposing to issue this EO, his intent (if he actually goes through with it) is to force the Judicial Branch to rule on it (i.e. provide a legal interpretation).

Contrary to the opinions of many Trump and his team of Legal Vultures aren't idiots.

 

[ptbw forever]

There is no upside

It reduces a motivation for illegal immigration. And a source of new and unwanted citizens.

And it saves we the tax payer billions each year.

Actually the exact opposite is true. I hope he tries to subvert the Constitution before the midterm. Manna from Heaven

I respectfully disagree. His base is so far gone they will NOT wake up if he tries to subvert the Constitution. They will continue to applaud because....MAGA!

------------------------------------------- Trump can't subvert the Constitution with an EO . Trump is just getting his thinking out in the public and signaling more actions after the Election . Its just a signal to his Deplorables Bode . [imo]

This isn't subverting the Constitution.

 

[bodecea]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Libtardos are always claiming the Constitution is a living document that needs to change with the times. That's why they want libtardo judges so they can apply their "nuance".

Of course it only applies to the things they want changed. And they don't want the living document changed when it applies to their future voting base.

You are welcome to change the Constitution at any time....they are called Amendments. We already have 27 changes to it as of today.

Cool, thanks for the enlightenment. Now link us to all your posts showing you said that when the Kenyan King wrote DACA ‘around’ the constitution. We’re standing by.

What part of the Constitution does DACA conflict with? Answer that for us.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It’s a calculated move to open the debate.

Haha, no it isn't. That freak isn't calculating anything, here.

 

[bendog]

----------------------------------------- if talking to me , this EO is simply a Tactic for his Deplorable people and on the fence Deplorables that will be going out to vote in a few days PTBW .

No, it isn't.

Trump made a promise to deal with this issue in the 2016 election.

But he's not dealing with it in the election. The 14th hasn't been an issue in congressional races until this, his last minute hail mary.

-------------------------------- the possible EO is in the news and thats all that matters . Everyone has heard about it and knows that the TRUMP wants it and thats all that matters before the upcoming election .

Of course, Trump is throwing this and the "caravan" out at the last minute to try and save the House. Is that not obvious to everyone? It has nothing to do with actually changing the meaning of the 14th.

Now IF Trump had been serious about the 14th, he'd have used having total control of Congress to pass some law preventing the mis-use by wealthy
Asians of just flying into our jurisdiction a few weeks before their due dates, and having kids here to get US (and dual) citizenship, and then fly back home and raise the kids there until it comes time for secondary school or college.

THAT would have but the "subject to the jurisdiction" issue squarely before the Supreme Court. But immigration is just a rallying cry for Trump to mislead his supporters. It's no different from "imminent invasion" by a pathetic caravan 1000 miles down stream.

------------------------------------------ i think that you have it close to correct as Trump is using a tactic to arouse those on the fence Deplorables Ben . Go Trump . [chuckle]

Oh he's ginned up Dem voters so now he's rushing to get his turnout.

But overall little has changed. The Dems should take the senate and if they only lose two seats in the senate it'll be a good election for them.

But given the economy, the Gop should not be losing the House.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Predictable reaction from the cultists....

 

[Olde Europe]

I haven't called him a dictator, but I have to admit, if he can change the Constitution at a whim, or has the absolute authority to pardon himself - as he has claimed -then maybe 'dictator-wannabe' is the right term.

Equally to the point, Trump is the actor here - if he doesn't start this bullshit, there is no controversy. He wants the controversy, while you want to pretend it's 50/50.

As always a pleasure to watch you play, except for the pitiful material to play with.

Of course, the dictator-wannabe overriding the Constitution by EO - uniting the executive, legislative, and, as a consequence, jurisdictional powers, all in one hand - would be the textbook case of a dictator. It's precisely the dictatorship the separation of powers, as installed by the Founding Fathers, was intended to preclude.

 

[well named]

No it isn't Moon Bat because the Heller and McDonald cases put the confusion about the meaning of well regulated and the silliness about the militia to rest.

The courts have also ruled on the interpretation of the Citizenship Clause:

"The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. ... To hold that the fourteenth amendment of the constitution excludes from citizenship the children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of other countries, would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage, who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States. -- United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)
​

See also, Plyler v. Doe (1982):

"Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States.” ... No plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘ jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful."
​

Both quotes taken from this article on the 14th amendment written by a Trump appointee to the 5th circuit court of appeals.

​

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals. It's original intent was to grant citizenship to freed slaves in a counter move to head of Democrats attempts to maintain slavery in the South.

This isn't true either. The application of the amendment to immigrants was discussed at the time it was written, see for example quoted passages in this post, also taken from the above article.