Trumps deportation plan would cost $100-$200 BILLION

[danielpalos]

Government is socialism

You're an idiot.

Only fullers of fallacy say that. being any form of semper fi to Any Cause is not a concept for you?

 

[charwin95]

US-Mexico trade BTW, a bit over half a trillion, a year.

Largely favoring Mexico..........
Most of our trade south for stuff like auto parts to build and assemble for sale in the United States.......
It would be their main loss and not ours.

It would pressure them to help secure the dang border.

You are the one with a border issue, not them.

They would be the ones with an economic issue not us if we hit them with high tariffs and pulled our funding and aid to them...........
pawn to knights four bitch.

What made you think they will not retaliate by hitting us with higher tariffs. This will hurt both countries.
Let me make it simpler. If I sell you (US) a cow and I (Mexico) buy your steak. You increase my tariffs of selling you the cow I will also increase my tariffs to compensate for the lost.

 

[danielpalos]

I live about 35 miles from the border, and cross it regularly. I find it more than a little amusing that anyone would think that a fence would stop someone who has already made up his mind to walk for at least 3 days across a desert full of cactus and rattlesnakes, with little or no water and food, in scorching heat, with no shade, guide, or even a pair of boots. In AZ, we find about 200 bodies per year of those that fail to make it. It is beyond absurd. Besides that, few actually walk from the border to Phoenix. They are usually driven through the border in a truck or van and dropped off on the other side, to fend for themselves against the elements. Then, of course there is the other half of them who come over on visa's and simply don't go back. Down in Nogales, a bus fell through the pavement of a street, because it caused a tunnel under the border to collapse. The fact that China built the world's largest wall, which failed, over 1,000 years ago does not discourage Trump or his fans either.

The whole thing is just a continuation of the movement to keep the (Irish), (blacks), (Italians), (Chinese), (Jews), (Muslims), (Latinos) out.

Is there any other nation that provides taxpayer benefits to those immigrants who have extended their stay or violated their immigration laws? Yet, how many are able to do so without building a fence? We are living in a time where terrorists are looking for a way to infiltrate and hide within the United States with the predetermined notion of killing its citizens, however enforcement is not an option to many. The United States government is not a world charity organization for all who desire to sneak across our borders, we are a nation that lives and is governed by laws... it's time we start acting like one.

Well, that settles it, then. It is against the law to profile Latinos and pull them over and demand proof of citizenship, without probable cause that they committed a crime. If you don't believe me, ask Sheriff Joe. That being the case, Trump obviously has no plan on how to deport any of them that are not engaged in criminal activity.

Employers would be fined heavily for hiring illegals. When illegals show up to the welfare offices, an ICE officer would be there to help show them to the nearest police station. A great many would self deport as they did during Operation Wetback.

Since when an ICE will show up in any establishments. Self Deport that is a very big joke. If you are illegals are you going to the other side when no food, no land, no future. People are willing to sacrifice their life in coming to us and you expect them to a self deport? What a joke.

Some socialists believe more in the rule-of-law than in the rule of the capitalists with the most gold in our Republic.

We have a Commerce Clause; not all immigration requires naturalization; why are we losing money on Commerce (well regulated) at our borders.

And, a "liquidation on margin call" should be a disqualification for a Capitalist in a hypothetical, party of Capitalism, simply for the sake of capitalism.

 

[charwin95]

Largely favoring Mexico..........
Most of our trade south for stuff like auto parts to build and assemble for sale in the United States.......
It would be their main loss and not ours.

It would pressure them to help secure the dang border.

You are the one with a border issue, not them.

They would be the ones with an economic issue not us if we hit them with high tariffs and pulled our funding and aid to them...........
pawn to knights four bitch.

How lucky for them then, that you can't hit them with tariffs.

Well we could just do it via other means the way your side does it all the time.................pen and a phone...........your product violates the EPA regulations..........
With 90000 pages of regulations you guys love we could tie it up in court for years while we refuse entry of products from their country and PLAY BY YOUR RULES.......................

Or just ignore it and say fuck it and do it............and piss everyone off..........................It's what you guys do all the time..........maybe it's time for a dose of your own medicine.

Trade agreements actually matter, but not to you. That's alright, you guys aren't known for keeping your word, or a deal...

Agree.

 

[charwin95]

Bripat From your post #1012.
Thousands of illegals deported each year is correct. However most or all are illegals caught crossing the borders. We are talking 11 millions or more that you are trying to eliminate.
All kids born in this country are US citizens. Maybe you are not aware that all kids born in this country are us citizens.

Not all, just very, very close to all...

Can you tell me which are not?

The children of those with Diplomatic Immunity for example. They are not under our jurisdiction. The children of those made during armed combat on American soil wouldn't be either. Same reason.

Thank you and I agree but we are talking about kids from illegals that are born in the USA.

 

[danielpalos]

To save our country 200 Billion seems cheap even at twice the cost.
Lets put it in perspective..... The War in Iraq cost over $818 Billion and the War in Afghanistan cost over $710 Billion. So Trumps plan would be money better spent that on either of the two wars mentioned.
Cost of National Security

Yup; that is all the right knows how to do; speculate and gamble with the (other) Peoples' tax monies; how 1929 of them. Even extreme socialists failed to make 1984 happen.

 

[Boss]

Thank you and I agree but we are talking about kids from illegals that are born in the USA.

They are not covered by the 14th Amendment.

Congress has plenary power to determine what 'naturalization' means, not SCOTUS... and SCOTUS has never ruled on children of illegal aliens anyway. I don't understand how this has become a Constitutional question for the left. It's as if they believe some ruling has happened to confer citizenship on anchor babies and this simply hasn't happened. Does't matter if it DID happen... Congress has plenary power. It's a non issue!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Thank you and I agree but we are talking about kids from illegals that are born in the USA.

...and SCOTUS has never ruled on children of illegal aliens anyway.

Yes, they have, just not directly, that wasn't the question at hand, but it's in the same case, and why would it matter if they were here legally or not?

What's the difference between two Chinese citizens having a baby while here legally, or illegal, when the baby is an American either way? Oh right, no difference.

 

[charwin95]

Well, that is not what your beer buddies here are telling to the internet. Fuck Mexican govt. we don't need them. We only do very small business in Mexico etc. etc. we can built then cheaper.
You want to alternate the existing trade agreement because it's no to your advantage? Let me make it simpler. We Americans need specific how to get this done. Not just blanked saying I will renegotiate.

I can't speak for beer drinking buddies of the poster you are addressing but I've not said "fuck mexico we don't need them." I certainly haven't claimed we could build things cheaper... that is insane... we can't. Not unless you want to eliminate labor unions and the minimum wage... THEN we might be able to build things cheaper. We can't compete with the cost of labor anywhere, that is what has happened to all our decent-paying jobs.

Now... We have a problem with "free trade" because it's not fair to us right now... we can't compete because we're not on a level field. It's not because "free trade" is bad... it's not bad as long as it's fair.... when it's unfair, it's very bad. So why is it unfair? Because we've had our trade agreements negotiated by idiots, political hacks or "nice guys and gals" instead of 'killers' in negotiation. So we now have a collection of "deals" that have been made, which screw us. And... someone comes along and says the way we have to fix this is to renegotiate our deals... and you think that is "crazy talk!"

So what do you propose we do? I mean... I guess we can elect Hillary who is bought and paid for by lobbyists and corporatists who are making a fortune off our trade deals? Ignore the problem some more and pretend it's all the fault of those "evil rich people" and we need to tax them more and put more socialist burden on capitalism... is that your plan?

As you agreed we can't compete with other countries because of cheaper labor.
However re-negotiate a current agreement because we didn't like it or not to our advantage. Is a lot easier to say than done.
1. All 11 to 40 millions of illegals should be deported.
2. I will re-negotiate the trade agreement if they don't. I will penalized them.
The biggest problem for people like me or many others that rely on facts is. HOW, WHAT and WHERE are the specifics in accomplishing these kind of wet dreams? Not just saying. I will do this and that. He might as well say, I will stop the Niagara Falls using a bucket.
The very sad and very shocking but lots of people are buying into this like you.

 

[Boss]

Thank you and I agree but we are talking about kids from illegals that are born in the USA.

...and SCOTUS has never ruled on children of illegal aliens anyway.

Yes, they have, just not directly, that wasn't the question at hand, but it's in the same case, and why would it matter if they were here legally or not?

What's the difference between two Chinese citizens having a baby while here legally, or illegal, when the baby is an American either way? Oh right, no difference.

Yes.. huge difference. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Boss]

Well, that is not what your beer buddies here are telling to the internet. Fuck Mexican govt. we don't need them. We only do very small business in Mexico etc. etc. we can built then cheaper.
You want to alternate the existing trade agreement because it's no to your advantage? Let me make it simpler. We Americans need specific how to get this done. Not just blanked saying I will renegotiate.

I can't speak for beer drinking buddies of the poster you are addressing but I've not said "fuck mexico we don't need them." I certainly haven't claimed we could build things cheaper... that is insane... we can't. Not unless you want to eliminate labor unions and the minimum wage... THEN we might be able to build things cheaper. We can't compete with the cost of labor anywhere, that is what has happened to all our decent-paying jobs.

Now... We have a problem with "free trade" because it's not fair to us right now... we can't compete because we're not on a level field. It's not because "free trade" is bad... it's not bad as long as it's fair.... when it's unfair, it's very bad. So why is it unfair? Because we've had our trade agreements negotiated by idiots, political hacks or "nice guys and gals" instead of 'killers' in negotiation. So we now have a collection of "deals" that have been made, which screw us. And... someone comes along and says the way we have to fix this is to renegotiate our deals... and you think that is "crazy talk!"

So what do you propose we do? I mean... I guess we can elect Hillary who is bought and paid for by lobbyists and corporatists who are making a fortune off our trade deals? Ignore the problem some more and pretend it's all the fault of those "evil rich people" and we need to tax them more and put more socialist burden on capitalism... is that your plan?

As you agreed we can't compete with other countries because of cheaper labor.
However re-negotiate a current agreement because we didn't like it or not to our advantage. Is a lot easier to say than done.
1. All 11 to 40 millions of illegals should be deported.
2. I will re-negotiate the trade agreement if they don't. I will penalized them.
The biggest problem for people like me or many others that rely on facts is. HOW, WHAT and WHERE are the specifics in accomplishing these kind of wet dreams? Not just saying. I will do this and that. He might as well say, I will stop the Niagara Falls using a bucket.
The very sad and very shocking but lots of people are buying into this like you.

Okay... so here is the thing... A GOOD negotiator is not going to tell you exactly how everything is going to happen. The very people who he would have to work with are listening... you understand this, right? So why does he want to tell them what and how he is going to do this? Does it give him some advantage to let them have a heads-up on what he has in mind? I don't think it does, it's kind of a bonehead strategy if you ask me.

He has explained to you in as much detail as you need to know, how he IS going to do this and how it CAN be done. And I think his supporters 100% believe he means it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Thank you and I agree but we are talking about kids from illegals that are born in the USA.

...and SCOTUS has never ruled on children of illegal aliens anyway.

Yes, they have, just not directly, that wasn't the question at hand, but it's in the same case, and why would it matter if they were here legally or not?

What's the difference between two Chinese citizens having a baby while here legally, or illegal, when the baby is an American either way? Oh right, no difference.

Yes.. huge difference. You don't know what you're talking about.

No, there is no difference, and there wasn't to the Supreme Court either. Unlike you, I read their rulings.

 

[Boss]

Thank you and I agree but we are talking about kids from illegals that are born in the USA.

...and SCOTUS has never ruled on children of illegal aliens anyway.

Yes, they have, just not directly, that wasn't the question at hand, but it's in the same case, and why would it matter if they were here legally or not?

What's the difference between two Chinese citizens having a baby while here legally, or illegal, when the baby is an American either way? Oh right, no difference.

US Constitution
Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4:
[The Congress shall have Power To]
...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

AMENDMENT XIV
Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Congress has plenary power. It does not matter WHAT SCOTUS rules. It has never made a ruling that confers citizenship on children born to illegal aliens. Never!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Congress has plenary power. It does not matter WHAT SCOTUS rules. It has never made a ruling that confers citizenship on children born to illegal aliens. Never!

Yes, it has. It knew of the issue, and did not care. Read the dissent in Wong, written by the people who lost. It makes no difference how you got here, only were you born here.

 

[bripat9643]

Well if you go back and read the thread, you'll find that my assertion of what "I want" is presented in response to someone implying I wanted "to kick out brown people." Since that was NOT what I want, I felt strongly compelled to set the record straight. I'm sorry if my setting the record straight offended you in some way. As for now, we live in a free and open society and you do not have the authority to tell me to shut up.

Now... You want specifics...

We're going to build a wall across our southern border.
All logistics have been considered and it can be done.
This solves the problem of illegals crossing our southern border.
The wall will be paid for by Mexico who depend on US trade.

That's about as specific as we can be.

"We're going to build a wall across our southern border.
All logistics have been considered and it can be done.
This solves the problem of illegals crossing our southern border.
The wall will be paid for by Mexico who depend on US trade."

Nothing there is specific. What will it cost? How will it benefit us? No logistics have been considered. You just make shit up and post it. It will not solve the problem of illegals since close to 40% entered legally and stayed. And Mexico will not pay for it. We depend on their trade as much as they depend on ours and we currently have a treaty that cannot be abridged. The rest of this hemisphere would not stand for us trying to bully Mexico. Your posts reveal more and more stupidity on your part.

We don't need trade from Mexico. Anything we build in Mexico can be built here, just cost a bit more. We don't sell much shit over there so fuck it, screw em, and charge em. And your 40% entered legally is a bullshit outdated number that doesn't take into consideration how it's happening in the current situation. And if true gives us reason to stop letting them in legally too.

Our trade with Mexico amounts to over 300 billion, 117 billion in shit we sell over there, and you think we do not need that trade. How fucking stupid do you have to be to make that comment.

The other $200 billion is shit they sell to us. There's nothing Mexico produces that we can't purchase elsewhere. ON the other hand, a $200 billion hit to their exports would devastate their economy. They need us far more than we need them. Any claims to the contrary are worse than stupid.

You are now a fucking trade expert. Produced some where? There's a big economic reason why mfr. goes to Mexico or China. We do not like the trade agreement will built in US or somewhere. Do you even understand the implications and consequences?

Yes, they build plants in Mexico and China because labor is cheaper there. However, after we impose a 50% tariff on Mexico, it won't be cheaper any longer.

 

[bripat9643]

Well if you go back and read the thread, you'll find that my assertion of what "I want" is presented in response to someone implying I wanted "to kick out brown people." Since that was NOT what I want, I felt strongly compelled to set the record straight. I'm sorry if my setting the record straight offended you in some way. As for now, we live in a free and open society and you do not have the authority to tell me to shut up.

Now... You want specifics...

We're going to build a wall across our southern border.
All logistics have been considered and it can be done.
This solves the problem of illegals crossing our southern border.
The wall will be paid for by Mexico who depend on US trade.

That's about as specific as we can be.

"We're going to build a wall across our southern border.
All logistics have been considered and it can be done.
This solves the problem of illegals crossing our southern border.
The wall will be paid for by Mexico who depend on US trade."

Nothing there is specific. What will it cost? How will it benefit us? No logistics have been considered. You just make shit up and post it. It will not solve the problem of illegals since close to 40% entered legally and stayed. And Mexico will not pay for it. We depend on their trade as much as they depend on ours and we currently have a treaty that cannot be abridged. The rest of this hemisphere would not stand for us trying to bully Mexico. Your posts reveal more and more stupidity on your part.

Puhleeze. The details aren't that important. it will solve 60% of the problem with illegals. That makes it more than worth doing. No one has claimed that the wall will solve the entire problem. That's purely an diversion by open borders/amnesty assholes who want to destroy this country.

And, no, we don't depend on trade with them as much as they depend on trade with us. Only a fool would make such a claim. America is the biggest market in the world, and cutting yourself off from that market is economic suicide.

Any treaty can be abridged. All we have to do is quit respecting the treaty. What is the rest of the hemisphere going to do about it, have a big temper tantrum? What leverage do the hold over us?

Almost everything you post is so stupid an 8-year-old child could see through it.

Good god. Cutting them off from this market would harm US too. We have exported 117 billion to Mexico so far this year. They have exported 145 billion to us. And you think ending that trade will not effect us?

It would annoy us. It would devastate them.

Who do you think you're kidding?

No. It would devastate us and it would devastate them. It's $117 billions not $117. Hundred.
You are now a trade expert and economy expert. Who do you think you are kidding? You are far beyond stupid.

Horseshit. How would it "devastate" us?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Yes, the build plants in Mexico and China because labor is cheaper there. However, after we impose a 50% tariff on Mexico, it won't be cheaper any longer.

NAFTA makes that idea impossible, utterly...

 

[bripat9643]

Build the wall. I just hope that the Mexicans and other Latinos don't discover shovels and ladders....

Shovels and ladders won't do them a bit of good when ICE agents who up where they are trying to use them. You open-borders imbeciles can't seem to fathom the concept that when the wall is monitored by people in guard towers digging under or climbing over just isn't going to work.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, the build plants in Mexico and China because labor is cheaper there. However, after we impose a 50% tariff on Mexico, it won't be cheaper any longer.

NAFTA makes that idea impossible, utterly...

Simple solution: rescind NAFTA.

 

[Boss]

Congress has plenary power. It does not matter WHAT SCOTUS rules. It has never made a ruling that confers citizenship on children born to illegal aliens. Never!

Yes, it has. It knew of the issue, and did not care. Read the dissent in Wong, written by the people who lost. It makes no difference how you got here, only were you born here.

You don't know what you are talking about. I just posted the resource itself... the Constitution and 14th Amendment, telling you clearly that Congress has plenary power. This is not a power SCOTUS has. It's in the Constitution. Clearly. Both in Article 1 and in the 14th itself.

It is a matter of statutory policy. Congress doesn't even have to pass legislation, they can probably issue a joint resolution to make this issue clear for those who don't comprehend. Birthright Citizenship under the 14th Amendment is a myth.