Trump's trade war with China

[bendog]

YOur inability to refute my point is noted. You ass.

Your point being trump policy can continue to fail and he has your complete support,

I dont' consider the longest economic expansion in history, to be a failure.

You must give Obama a lot of credit since most if it is his.

There's the irony. Now I don't give Obama credit for the economy Trump inherited, but deficits were declining and tax receipts gaining, and he did have at least some control over that. BUT EVEN TRUMP said he had to take on Jina while the economy was strong enough to sustain the growth killing aspect of tariffs. He didn't put enough pain on Jina to get it done in time though, and probably he screwed himself in bitching about Nato and in general being pissy to Europe instead of pushing their similar complaints on China to get a "coalition."

But by his own estimation, he was using the strong economy because Americans wouldn't feel the pain.

Nobody wins a trade war. Both sides suffer.

Exactly, but if you start a war, you kill them more efficiently. We failed at that.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

1. No other nation has the ability to give China such a trade policy, nor is any other nation that stupid. Xi obviously wants to maintain that surplus, regardless of whether he increases trade with other nations, or whatever long term diplomatic plans he has.

China has a trade surplus with every nation it trades with, and for good reason. They are able to produce items cheaper than most other nations as we all take advantage of that. It is no different than why you go to the grocery store to buy your food instead of raising and growing all of your own. Others can do it cheaper than you could yourself and you take advantage of that.

China has an almost 2/1 trade imbalance with the world, they export far more than they import. The only industrialized nation that has a surplus with them is Japan, and that has much to do with their discrepancy in population.

China is actively working to expand its customer base, pumping money and resources into Africa, the final emerging market. While they do that, we pull back within our own borders and attack everyone that is not the US. China is happy for us to do this, as they fill the void we leave behind.

The worst thing that could happen to the US is for the world to find out they do not need us as much as they thought they did, and Trump is doing everything he can to show them they do not need us.

 

[wamose]

Trump is where America should be and all the globalist establishment are at the self serving place where America will go down the tubes in a decade. If you listen to trade groups, the MSM or the business roundtable or the Democratic party, you're on the express route to the big fall off a cliff. Those greedy bastards are just protecting their flow of easy money, at the expense of our country.

That may be, but he is creating a recession, so give him that credit too.

I'll give him credit, if that's what it comes to. But you don't seem to understand the theory of delayed gratification. For me, Trump is fixing a long held trade policy that says cheaper is better even if they are stealing you blind. Trump is the greatest President since Eisenhower and I just played one of that great mans courses today. Viva Trump.

 

[Brain357]

You're spelling Brian wrong, Qdog. And how uninformed are you to think pollution originating in China isn't a global problem. Pretty shallow.

It’s a lot bigger problem in China than here.

Spoken like a true elitist.

You prefer to pay more and get more pollution?

You're one of those idiots who believe the free trade BS. When Levis moved their production to Indonesia and were paying 3 cents an hour, the cost of cotton dockers still went up. Don't hit me with that free trade jive. Free trade is a multinational scam and it used to be Democrats that saw that. Now that Trump is on the right side, Democrats, little bitches that they are, will oppose him. You're one of them.

Did Levi's profits increase proportionally? I really don't know. I won't disagree with you that capital cut costs and made more profit. I don't the Brain would disagree with you either. Nor did Obama.

Our corps have raked in the profits.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

But trump cut taxes, eliminated regulation, is spending like we are in a recession...

So, to be clear, you are dropping your point, that an end to the record setting 121 month expansion, can be considered "proof" that Trump's tariffs are "not working"?


Because that was what we were talking about. Your claim that the slowing economic proved that the Tariff were not working.


Which is a really stupid thing to claim, that a economy slowing after TEN FUCKING YEARS OF GROWTH, is evidence that something didn't work.


I just want to be clear, that you aren't going to just sideline that for a little bit, and then go back to it, as though it has not been utterly refuted.


You're not insanely dishonest like that are you.

Sounds like we got more growth from Obama...

I don’t see any indicator that trump policy has done anything good. Why do you support it?

So, are you dropping your previous claim, that the expansion, possibly ending at JUST OVER TEN FUCKING YEARS, is proof of a policy failing?

No. His policy has not brought the growth he claimed and we are actually slowing.

Got it. You are citing the US longest lasting economic expansion ever, at over TEN FUCKING YEARS, as proof of a trade policy failure.


Bold move, citing a massive success as evidence of failure.


You lose.

The trade policy in place prior to Trump is what brought us the economic expansion of TEN FUCKING YEARS, Yet all your Trump worshipers say we have to change because the trade policies were to terrible.

 

[Brain357]

Trump is where America should be and all the globalist establishment are at the self serving place where America will go down the tubes in a decade. If you listen to trade groups, the MSM or the business roundtable or the Democratic party, you're on the express route to the big fall off a cliff. Those greedy bastards are just protecting their flow of easy money, at the expense of our country.

That may be, but he is creating a recession, so give him that credit too.

I'll give him credit, if that's what it comes to. But you don't seem to understand the theory of delayed gratification. For me, Trump is fixing a long held trade policy that says cheaper is better even if they are stealing you blind. Trump is the greatest President since Eisenhower and I just played one of that great mans courses today. Viva Trump.

So we get their resources for next to nothing and they keep the pollution. Who is stealing from who?

 

[wamose]

You're spelling Brian wrong, Qdog. And how uninformed are you to think pollution originating in China isn't a global problem. Pretty shallow.

It’s a lot bigger problem in China than here.

Spoken like a true elitist.

You prefer to pay more and get more pollution?

You're one of those idiots who believe the free trade BS. When Levis moved their production to Indonesia and were paying 3 cents an hour, the cost of cotton dockers still went up. Don't hit me with that free trade jive. Free trade is a multinational scam and it used to be Democrats that saw that. Now that Trump is on the right side, Democrats, little bitches that they are, will oppose him. You're one of them.

Did Levi's profits increase proportionally? I really don't know. I won't disagree with you that capital cut costs and made more profit. I don't the Brain would disagree with you either. Nor did Obama.

No, you have it right. The multi national companies benefitted and the American worker got hosed big time. Democrats used to protect the American worker against things like this before they became the resistance party. Now they're anti worker. How do I know this? Because Trump is Pro Worker.

 

[Brain357]

It’s a lot bigger problem in China than here.

Spoken like a true elitist.

You prefer to pay more and get more pollution?

You're one of those idiots who believe the free trade BS. When Levis moved their production to Indonesia and were paying 3 cents an hour, the cost of cotton dockers still went up. Don't hit me with that free trade jive. Free trade is a multinational scam and it used to be Democrats that saw that. Now that Trump is on the right side, Democrats, little bitches that they are, will oppose him. You're one of them.

Did Levi's profits increase proportionally? I really don't know. I won't disagree with you that capital cut costs and made more profit. I don't the Brain would disagree with you either. Nor did Obama.

No, you have it right. The multi national companies benefitted and the American worker got hosed big time. Democrats used to protect the American worker against things like this before they became the resistance party. Now they're anti worker. How do I know this? Because Trump is Pro Worker.

Yeah how about those steel workers being unemployed?

 

[bendog]

It’s a lot bigger problem in China than here.

Spoken like a true elitist.

You prefer to pay more and get more pollution?

You're one of those idiots who believe the free trade BS. When Levis moved their production to Indonesia and were paying 3 cents an hour, the cost of cotton dockers still went up. Don't hit me with that free trade jive. Free trade is a multinational scam and it used to be Democrats that saw that. Now that Trump is on the right side, Democrats, little bitches that they are, will oppose him. You're one of them.

Did Levi's profits increase proportionally? I really don't know. I won't disagree with you that capital cut costs and made more profit. I don't the Brain would disagree with you either. Nor did Obama.

No, you have it right. The multi national companies benefitted and the American worker got hosed big time. Democrats used to protect the American worker against things like this before they became the resistance party. Now they're anti worker. How do I know this? Because Trump is Pro Worker.

How is Trump pro worker? He's cut OT pay. He employees illegals. He stiffs workers with bills. He's raising the prices workers pay.

I will agree that by letting corporations off shore without eviro and workers rights, both parties cowed to capital. The dems would argue there wasn't much choice.

And that's why I asked about Levis. Did textiles or the garment industry actually reap huge profits by offshoring? Or did some just survive?

 

[wamose]

So, to be clear, you are dropping your point, that an end to the record setting 121 month expansion, can be considered "proof" that Trump's tariffs are "not working"?


Because that was what we were talking about. Your claim that the slowing economic proved that the Tariff were not working.


Which is a really stupid thing to claim, that a economy slowing after TEN FUCKING YEARS OF GROWTH, is evidence that something didn't work.


I just want to be clear, that you aren't going to just sideline that for a little bit, and then go back to it, as though it has not been utterly refuted.


You're not insanely dishonest like that are you.

Sounds like we got more growth from Obama...

I don’t see any indicator that trump policy has done anything good. Why do you support it?

So, are you dropping your previous claim, that the expansion, possibly ending at JUST OVER TEN FUCKING YEARS, is proof of a policy failing?

No. His policy has not brought the growth he claimed and we are actually slowing.

Got it. You are citing the US longest lasting economic expansion ever, at over TEN FUCKING YEARS, as proof of a trade policy failure.


Bold move, citing a massive success as evidence of failure.


You lose.

The trade policy in place prior to Trump is what brought us the economic expansion of TEN FUCKING YEARS, Yet all your Trump worshipers say we have to change because the trade policies were to terrible.

Don't kid yourself. The fact that we were coming off a stock market crash had a lot to do with that. What goes down must go up eventually. Extreme deficit spending by Obama didn't hurt either. You can't seriously be thinking that Obama had anything to do with our current economic strength.

 

[Brain357]

Spoken like a true elitist.

You prefer to pay more and get more pollution?

You're one of those idiots who believe the free trade BS. When Levis moved their production to Indonesia and were paying 3 cents an hour, the cost of cotton dockers still went up. Don't hit me with that free trade jive. Free trade is a multinational scam and it used to be Democrats that saw that. Now that Trump is on the right side, Democrats, little bitches that they are, will oppose him. You're one of them.

Did Levi's profits increase proportionally? I really don't know. I won't disagree with you that capital cut costs and made more profit. I don't the Brain would disagree with you either. Nor did Obama.

No, you have it right. The multi national companies benefitted and the American worker got hosed big time. Democrats used to protect the American worker against things like this before they became the resistance party. Now they're anti worker. How do I know this? Because Trump is Pro Worker.

How is Trump pro worker? He's cut OT pay. He employees illegals. He stiffs workers with bills. He's raising the prices workers pay.

I will agree that by letting corporations off shore without eviro and workers rights, both parties cowed to capital. The dems would argue there wasn't much choice.

And that's why I asked about Levis. Did textiles or the garment industry actually reap huge profits by offshoring? Or did some just survive?

Can’t speak for Levi’s specifically. But with all the moves to importing we didn’t start paying less, corps just made more.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Don't kid yourself. The fact that we were coming off a stock market crash had a lot to do with that. What goes down must go up eventually. Extreme deficit spending by Obama didn't hurt either. You can't seriously be thinking that Obama had anything to do with our current economic strength.

Obama was a terrible POTUS, 2nd worst in my opinion. I give him credit for fucking up healthcare worse than it was and that is about it.

The problem is that Trump is only marginally better and is actually adding debt at a pace faster than Obama did over his 8 years.

 

[Brain357]

Don't kid yourself. The fact that we were coming off a stock market crash had a lot to do with that. What goes down must go up eventually. Extreme deficit spending by Obama didn't hurt either. You can't seriously be thinking that Obama had anything to do with our current economic strength.

Obama was a terrible POTUS, 2nd worst in my opinion. I give him credit for fucking up healthcare worse than it was and that is about it.

The problem is that Trump is only marginally better and is actually adding debt at a pace faster than Obama did over his 8 years.

I think trump is on pace to be worse than Obama. Best thing that could happen to his legacy is losing in 2020. Each year just gets worse with trump. He does have bush beat still.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Don't kid yourself. The fact that we were coming off a stock market crash had a lot to do with that. What goes down must go up eventually. Extreme deficit spending by Obama didn't hurt either. You can't seriously be thinking that Obama had anything to do with our current economic strength.

Obama was a terrible POTUS, 2nd worst in my opinion. I give him credit for fucking up healthcare worse than it was and that is about it.

The problem is that Trump is only marginally better and is actually adding debt at a pace faster than Obama did over his 8 years.

I think trump is on pace to be worse than Obama. Best thing that could happen to his legacy is losing in 2020. Each year just gets worse with trump. He does have bush beat still.

Bush II was the worst, in my opinion.

 

[wamose]

Don't kid yourself. The fact that we were coming off a stock market crash had a lot to do with that. What goes down must go up eventually. Extreme deficit spending by Obama didn't hurt either. You can't seriously be thinking that Obama had anything to do with our current economic strength.

Obama was a terrible POTUS, 2nd worst in my opinion. I give him credit for fucking up healthcare worse than it was and that is about it.

The problem is that Trump is only marginally better and is actually adding debt at a pace faster than Obama did over his 8 years.

I think trump is on pace to be worse than Obama. Best thing that could happen to his legacy is losing in 2020. Each year just gets worse with trump. He does have bush beat still.

Bush II was the worst, in my opinion.

W sucked for sure but he wasn't nearly as bad as Obama, the Black guy who set race relations back 60 years.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

W sucked for sure but he wasn't nearly as bad as Obama, the Black guy who set race relations back 60 years.

Race relations being set back was a foreseeable outcome of the first black president. He made matters worse, but it was not all on him.

Nothing Obama did can compare to invading the wrong country. The debacle we call the Iraq War was on par with some of the biggest fuck ups by a world leader in the entire history of the world. We are still paying the price for that war.

 

[Correll]

So, to be clear, you are dropping your point, that an end to the record setting 121 month expansion, can be considered "proof" that Trump's tariffs are "not working"?


Because that was what we were talking about. Your claim that the slowing economic proved that the Tariff were not working.


Which is a really stupid thing to claim, that a economy slowing after TEN FUCKING YEARS OF GROWTH, is evidence that something didn't work.


I just want to be clear, that you aren't going to just sideline that for a little bit, and then go back to it, as though it has not been utterly refuted.


You're not insanely dishonest like that are you.

Yes. the end of a ten year expansion is proof of Trump screwing up on tariffs unless you can point to what else has caused the end of expansion. We have full employment. Without the tariffs, real wages were going up. No inflation to speak of. Fairly low rates, and credit card rates are not hindering consumer buying. In real estate, if anything we had a shortage of affordable first buyer homes.

The millennials continued to be being screwed, but that's really a generational carryover from the last recession.

An expansion ending, YEARS after it normally would, CAN NOT BE CONSIDERED A FAILURE, by any sane person.

It sure can when we have trillion dollar deficits. Historically low fed rate. Huge tax cut, Cuts in regulation, Your policy leading us to recession, you might want to rethink it.

You can't sanely claim that a policy is leading to recession, when the recession is delayed by at least FIVE YEARS PAST THE NORMAL TIME.


It would be like pointing to a man that died at 140, and using him as an example of what NOT to do, to take care of yourself.

Since we are already doing everything we do to get out of a recession, what will we do when we have one?

I'm more concerned about long term underlying trends.


But your point is a valid concern.


I'm glad you dropped your silly idea of citing success as proof of failure.


I think we should drastically curtail our military commitments so we can massively cut our military spending.

Cutting military spending won’t help us out of recession,

Correct. I was agreeing with your point about spending a lot during an expansion, what to do when the cycle turns and you are in a recession.

If we had reduced commitments/spending over the LAST 10 years of growth, then we would have lower spending now, that could be increased then.

 

[Bush92]

"If anyone had doubts that trade was the thing hanging over the market, today seals it," said Bill Stone, chief investment officer with Avalon Investment & Advisory.

Tariffs on popular consumer goods like clothing, shoes, computers, and cell phones cause higher prices. Even Trump admitted that yesterday. Higher prices cause inflation. Inflation causes less demand. Less demand causes unemployment. Tariffs cause recession, Econ 101.

When Americans suffer investment losses it causes permanent loss of principle, fourth grade math. Millions of Americans permanently lost more of their principle in investment accounts today.

As things stand now, the Dow has lost over 575 points, the Nasdaq over 200 points, and the S&P over 65 points. The reason: Stocks plunged on Wednesday, giving back Tuesday’s solid gains, after the U.S. bond market flashed a troubling signal about the U.S. economy, a recession warning.

There have been five such warnings of the 2-year and 10-year yields since 1978 and all were precursors to a recession.

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning

Today, the Dow is at 25,690. On March 15, the Dow was 25,440. Because of Trump's trade war with China, the market has been treading water for five months. Stock Market News For Feb 15, 2019

I have been a student of current political history for over a half century, and I am a retired columnist. Never in my 50 years have I seen a U.S. President repeatedly harm our economy and cause investment losses. The current President is doing that very thing. The past three weeks prove it.

We are reminded that Trump was Putin's personal choice to become our President.

China is they enemy. Fuck them.

 

[Correll]

Got it. You are citing the US longest lasting economic expansion ever, at over TEN FUCKING YEARS, as proof of a trade policy failure.


Bold move, citing a massive success as evidence of failure.


You lose.

It’s adorable how you stand by trump when his policy fails. Good dog,

YOur inability to refute my point is noted. You ass.

Your point being trump policy can continue to fail and he has your complete support,

I dont' consider the longest economic expansion in history, to be a failure.

You must give Obama a lot of credit since most if it is his.

Sort of.

 

[Correll]

It’s adorable how you stand by trump when his policy fails. Good dog,

YOur inability to refute my point is noted. You ass.

Your point being trump policy can continue to fail and he has your complete support,

I dont' consider the longest economic expansion in history, to be a failure.

You must give Obama a lot of credit since most if it is his.

There's the irony. Now I don't give Obama credit for the economy Trump inherited, but deficits were declining and tax receipts gaining, and he did have at least some control over that. BUT EVEN TRUMP said he had to take on Jina while the economy was strong enough to sustain the growth killing aspect of tariffs. He didn't put enough pain on Jina to get it done in time though, and probably he screwed himself in bitching about Nato and in general being pissy to Europe instead of pushing their similar complaints on China to get a "coalition."

But by his own estimation, he was using the strong economy because Americans wouldn't feel the pain.

Sounds reasonable.


After all, if you have an absurd trade imbalance, it should be addressed at some point. Right?