Tulsa police officer charged with manslaughter

[WillowTree]

There it is...proceed to "thug'ize" the victim.

It's what they do. Every unarmed black man shot and killed by a white police officer is a "thug."

Thug is the new knigger word.

Thug is a behavior, not a race, bigot.

Nobody calls Dr. Ben Carson a thug.

No but some liberal professor called him a coon. No outrage from the left.

You expect outrage over a name but defend a White cop shooting an unarmed Black man? And you expect to be taken seriously?

I haven't defended anyone! Because I don't have the facts! Would you be outraged if a black cop shot an unarmed black man? Is it the race that offends you? Or the fact that it is a cop?

 

[WillowTree]

There it is...proceed to "thug'ize" the victim.

It's what they do. Every unarmed black man shot and killed by a white police officer is a "thug."

Thug is the new knigger word.

Thug is a behavior, not a race, bigot.

Nobody calls Dr. Ben Carson a thug.

No but some liberal professor called him a coon. No outrage from the left.

Could you supply a link?

Watch her, she says some cool racist shit

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The picture really means nothing.
The prosecutor has all of the follow up investigative findings. Those reports will show very clearly what the state of the vehicle was. Windows up/down and if the vehicle was operational. No doubt all of those findings influenced the decision to file charges.

The defense will have the toxicology report.
The thugs criminal record. The number of times he had been arrested while in possession of an illegal firearm.
Whether his ID has on his person or in the vehicle.
The existing charge will be dropped.
The LEO will plea to a far lesser charge and be reassigned to a 'desk job' so she can keep her pension plan.

Sure, but none of that justifies shooting someone dead. The prosecutor has a solid case. The defense really only has the "big, scary black man" defense. It's simply not enough when combined with the video to raise reasonable doubt in the prosecution's case.
Remember that video will be seen over and over in court. Officer Betty already admitted to being emotionally compromised. Will she testify to her state of mind in open court? Not likely as that makes the prosecution's case. Then who will? What will the other officers on the scene testify to when none of them fired?
If I were her counsel, I would advise her that her career as an LEO is over and you really only have two choices. Go to trial and risk jail time or plead to a lesser charge and likely get probation.

The "scary Black man" had an extensive criminal record which all the LEO's on the scene KNEW about before they left their patrol cars.
He had 'weapons' charges.
He was a gangbanger thug.
He CHOOSE not to obey lawful commands numerous times to get on the ground.
He reached into his vehicle.
He made a move to quickly withdraw his arm from the vehicle at which point he was shot.
Those are the facts any jury will learn happened.
PRO TIP:
The Police Union's lawyers are the best in the country.
It is they who will recommend to the LEO involved what to do.
I 100% guarantee you the Union lawyers have already determined to defend the LEO.
She's going to walk.

Not likely in this case but I'm not going to argue.

Going back to the Zimmerman trial I have been proven correct in everyone of these bullshit LIB MSM wet dreams.
The LEO in this case was overcharged on purpose to attempt to calm the situation down quickly.
Here's a little 'inner-tennis' for those with a modicum of intelligence.
Everytime millions of potential voters watch the 'Tree Dwellers' riot and loot and burn their own shitholes those watching are moving towards Trump and away from Obama's replacement.
They instinctively ask "why hasn't Obama done anything to stop this insanity? He had eight fucking years!". And by extension they are asking what Hillary could do that Obama couldn't for the negro community? The LEO's case won't even be heard until next year. By then the dust will have settled and the LIB MSM will devote four seconds telling their audience the case was dropped.

This isn't the Zimmerman case and there is no looting and burning in OK.
There is a video that any honest person can see is questionable at best. The officer has already said herself that she was emotionally compromised at the time. Self described "tunnel vision" precludes the presence of reasoned judgement and makes the prosecution's case rather easy to prove. The fact that "she became emotionally involved to the point of over reacting" is the reason cited for the charges in his affidavit and makes this one a slam dunk.

 

[MikeK]

I got a dollar says she walks ... she had reason to believe there was a weapon in the car. There is no other practicable rationale for his actions.[...]

Isn't Oklahoma a Right To Carry state? If so, then she has a reason to believe everyone she encounters under any circumstances has a weapon in their car -- or in a pocket.

Based on all we've seen and heard it would seem the only hope for acquittal or extreme leniency Shelby has is if her lawyer can identify a substantial flaw in the police training regimen that caused her to believe lethal force was called for.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

But you ask why would she be nervous? because, previous to the video, he was also refusing to follow orders to remove his hands from his pockets and later when guns are drawn on him he refuses to stop,

[...]

A built-in flaw in this justification for taking extreme action in some situations is the very real possibility that a subject might not understand English or might be hearing impaired.

 

[Yarddog]

[...]

But you ask why would she be nervous? because, previous to the video, he was also refusing to follow orders to remove his hands from his pockets and later when guns are drawn on him he refuses to stop,

[...]

A built-in flaw in this justification for taking extreme action in some situations is the very real possibility that a subject might not understand English or might be hearing impaired.

thats a good point to consider

 

[protectionist]

I looked at the video about a dozen times just at a moment before the shot was fired,,, you can see Crutcher leaning foward against the car window, in such a way that would not be normal for anything other than reaching into the window. Although you can barely discern it, it appears that he was going into that window for something. The orientation of his body doesn't really correlate to anything else. Scroll to 1:30 on the time bar.

 

[protectionist]

Here's the other video (the helicopter one)

Again, just before the shot it appears that Crutcher was reaching into the driver's window. It does not appear conclusive that he was NOT doing that. With Shelby and her lawyer claiming that Crutcher was reaching into the window, and therefore a self-defense shooting, the prosecution would have to prove that Crutcher was NOT reaching in the window.

I don't see this as anything but either not guilty by self-defense, or not guilty by insufficient evidence. Shouldn't even go past a grand jury.

Helicopter Video of Tulsa Police Shooting

 

[protectionist]

The Crutcher family lawyer is saying that the helicopter video proves that the driver's window was closed. Looking at it objectively, it looks to me like, if the video proves anything, it might prove the driver window to be OPEN.

You can very clearly see the seats inside the car. Considerably more clear than through the front windshield, which is usually the most clear of all the windows.And in this vehicle the the driver side window is slightly tinted (darker than the front winshield). No question. It's an open window. I'd say just the comparison of the driver's window area and the front windshield clinches it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...37bebc-7f76-11e6-ad0e-ab0d12c779b1_video.html

 

[protectionist]

A built-in flaw in this justification for taking extreme action in some situations is the very real possibility that a subject might not understand English or might be hearing impaired.

1. That does not diminish the need to shoot in self-defense. If a suspect is reaching into his car window, then that is a cause for lethal force action. Don't take that action, and you might be dead a second later.

2. Generally people who can't speak English know enough to be able to say . I don't speak English.

3. If a person is hearing impaired, they can convey that, by using deaf sign language.

 

[leftwinger]

[...]

But you ask why would she be nervous? because, previous to the video, he was also refusing to follow orders to remove his hands from his pockets and later when guns are drawn on him he refuses to stop,

[...]

A built-in flaw in this justification for taking extreme action in some situations is the very real possibility that a subject might not understand English or might be hearing impaired.

But, according to many. His history is on the Police dash for view?

 

[leftwinger]

The Crutcher family lawyer is saying that the helicopter video proves that the driver's window was closed. Looking at it objectively, it looks to me like, if the video proves anything, it might prove the driver window to be OPEN.

You can very clearly see the seats inside the car. Considerably more clear than through the front windshield, which is usually the most clear of all the windows.And in this vehicle the the driver side window is slightly tinted (darker than the front winshield). No question. It's an open window. I'd say just the comparison of the driver's window area and the front windshield clinches it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...37bebc-7f76-11e6-ad0e-ab0d12c779b1_video.html

That video shows me maybe that window is open 2/3 of way down? The seat belt may be the item looks like blood stream down window? hard to be 100% certain.........but it could be. 1:00 mark.

 

[protectionist]

The Crutcher family lawyer is saying that the helicopter video proves that the driver's window was closed. Looking at it objectively, it looks to me like, if the video proves anything, it might prove the driver window to be OPEN.

You can very clearly see the seats inside the car. Considerably more clear than through the front windshield, which is usually the most clear of all the windows.And in this vehicle the the driver side window is slightly tinted (darker than the front winshield). No question. It's an open window. I'd say just the comparison of the driver's window area and the front windshield clinches it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...37bebc-7f76-11e6-ad0e-ab0d12c779b1_video.html

That video shows me maybe that window is open 2/3 of way down? The seat belt may be the item looks like blood stream down window? hard to be 100% certain.........but it could be. 1:00 mark.

I think it is the seat belt showing through the open window, and blood on the door.

 

[MikeK]

The Crutcher family lawyer is saying that the helicopter video proves that the driver's window was closed. Looking at it objectively, it looks to me like, if the video proves anything, it might prove the driver window to be OPEN.

You can very clearly see the seats inside the car. Considerably more clear than through the front windshield, which is usually the most clear of all the windows.And in this vehicle the the driver side window is slightly tinted (darker than the front winshield). No question. It's an open window. I'd say just the comparison of the driver's window area and the front windshield clinches it.

All of this seems somewhat convincing -- right up to the part where the Tulsa DA has charged Shelby with Man-1 and her response has been to say her action was precipitated by emotional anxiety.

So if your position rests on the window of the car maybe being open, thus far it doesn't look good for Shelby.

PS: FYI, My position in the "Big Mike" Brown killing is he had it coming, so please don't categorize me as anti-cop. My position where the use of force is concerned is it's perfectly fine when justified and necessary. But when it's neither justified nor necessary it causes a lot of very serious and costly problems -- and for no good reason.

 

[MikeK]

That video shows me maybe that window is open 2/3 of way down? The seat belt may be the item looks like blood stream down window? hard to be 100% certain.........but it could be. 1:00 mark.

Maybe? May be? Could be?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Here's the other video (the helicopter one)

Again, just before the shot it appears that Crutcher was reaching into the driver's window. It does not appear conclusive that he was NOT doing that. With Shelby and her lawyer claiming that Crutcher was reaching into the window, and therefore a self-defense shooting, the prosecution would have to prove that Crutcher was NOT reaching in the window.

I don't see this as anything but either not guilty by self-defense, or not guilty by insufficient evidence. Shouldn't even go past a grand jury.

Helicopter Video of Tulsa Police Shooting

At 0:36 in the video of your link, you can clearly see the reflections on the window, indicating that it was up.

 

[protectionist]

All of this seems somewhat convincing -- right up to the part where the Tulsa DA has charged Shelby with Man-1 and her response has been to say her action was precipitated by emotional anxiety.

So if your position rests on the window of the car maybe being open, thus far it doesn't look good for Shelby.

PS: FYI, My position in the "Big Mike" Brown killing is he had it coming, so please don't categorize me as anti-cop. My position where the use of force is concerned is it's perfectly fine when justified and necessary. But when it's neither justified nor necessary it causes a lot of very serious and costly problems -- and for no good reason.

1. I didn't say "maybe" YOU said that . I said "no question"

2. Probably all police shooting have emotional anxiety. Very few people are comfortable with shooting someone. It's something cops sometimes have to do, to defend themselves. The anxiety does not preclude the necessity.

3. I would say the case looks very good for Shelby because the prosecution could have no way of proving it wasn't self-defense (as it appears to be in the video). If the video was judged to be inconclusive, then the prosecution has no case. The burden is on them, not the defense.

 

[protectionist]

At 0:36 in the video of your link, you can clearly see the reflections on the window, indicating that it was up.

"Clearly" ? Are you dreaming ? I don't see ANY reflection whatsoever. I stopped it at 0:36 and put a magnifying glass on it. No reflection. The inside seats are very white and clear. Window is clearly open.

 

[protectionist]

So due to the window being wide open, and the video showing Crutcher's left arm going into it, and inside the car, it could only be a self-defense situation.

Maybe the schools ought to teach people how to act when confronted by the police.

We are seeing a rash of black men with no clue of what to do, and acting incredibly ignorant and dangerous to themselves. This could be a lot more useful than studying 12th century Nordic poetry.

 

[Bush92]

The savages of the Alt Right scream and yell. The GJ will indict.

Your delusional. No such thing as Alt right.