Understanding Christianity

[Taz]

But you need some kind of proof? Don't you? Otherwise it's a pure fantasy. Ex: do you believe in heaven? If so, on what basis?

There is no proof of how we came to be. Only theory. Yet, don't you believe in a particular theory?

No, I don't. I'm following science. There are prevailing theories on the Big Bang and things like that, but it's easy to see that their theories are incomplete, which they fully admit. So not believing, just following with interest to see where it goes. But it's all based on science and reai experiments that give real conclusions... They don't just make shit up like religious book writers do.

How about anything "other worldly", not using the right word, but, like ghosts, spirits, paranormal stuff?

Those haven't been proven, and unlike science with the Hadron collider at CERN, space telescopes and other experiments, they aren't even looking for real for those things. So it can all be good fun, but not proven. Not even close.

Using a telescope to find proof of a higher realm of conscious life is like using a calculator to try and understand poetry.

Everything that a person thinks, sees, feels, dreams, perceives, understands or doesn't understand occurs in the brain.

Given that, the only tool or instrument at our disposal to investigate such things, the mind, should be disinfected and purified first so that the results of any inquiry will not be distorted or perverted by contaminating prejudices, irrational thoughts, or unsubstantiated assumptions. Just like any scientist would sterilize his laboratory, disinfect his beakers, calibrate his measuring devices and polish his microscope lenses before conducting an experiment to discover the truth about something.

As far as heaven goes, one cannot ever find proof of heaven if they do not even know what the term indicates or where or how to look.

"The kingdom of Heaven is within"

Jesus said to the pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them and they never even looked at a telescope..

This shows that heaven is something that can be experienced right here on earth before you die a physical death.

you don't have to just believe in heaven, you can have all the proof for its reality that you could handle just by entering into it. then it would be impossible for you to not believe.



Hope that helps.

.

I'm not saying to use a telescope specifically, but that science finds tools to use and probe the unknown. Religions don't. They just make up shit like what's in the bible where "Jesus said" or "god commanded" ... And religions have even stopped looking for answers, as they think they have them all when it comes to invisible people.

 

[Taz]

But you need some kind of proof? Don't you? Otherwise it's a pure fantasy. Ex: do you believe in heaven? If so, on what basis?

Please, stop asking for "proof." Proof pertains ONLY to the physical world. If you have no belief that there is any existence beyond physical existence that's fine. There are some of us who are interested in exploring beyond the physical and finite--beyond measurement. To us, those of you who have no wish to expand beyond the physical, are like old fuddy-duddies, and that's fine. The world needs and feels warmly towards the old geezers.

Do I believe in heaven? Yes. Jesus testified that in His Father's kingdom there are many mansions. There are numerous written testimonies about near death experiences. My experience was more "knowledge of death" than "near death", but it's a pretty amazing place. Makes this life seem like an existence in the shadows with grey pastels. The next life has the true light and bright, amazing colors. No one can offer you "proof" of what we experienced. All we can offer is testimony. And if that's not good enough, oh well. Take flight or not. It's up to each individual. The physical world is a fine place to explore as well.

So basically, you've built a fantasy world around yourself, which, if you're not hurting anyone else, is ok, I suppose. But don't think that you've found some ultimate truth or anything, because all you really have is self delusion, a kind of magical place where no proof is required, just a willing imagination.

 

[Meriweather]

It is not so much of a possibility of a spiritual being existing that we have issues with. It is the claim that the spirit also controls the physical that we have trouble with.

I understand. Good point. The physical has physical laws. Therefore, I do not believe God "sent" the flood. Keep in mind people in ancient times saw everything as an act of God. Muslims today still hold to that belief. Many believe fingers can only move through God's will. People can only feed themselves through God's will, or an act of God.

Other places in the Bible paint a different kind of picture. The world has dark valleys (and times). But through good and bad, God is with us and helps us through the spiritual side of our human existence. For those who believe in holistic health, our spirit can affect our health--just as our health can affect our spirit. No way of proving, but are some people restored to health, because it is their spiritual health that triggered the physical reaction? This might explain cures doctors have no way of explaining in one patient--and no way of duplicating in another.

When people on both sides separate science from faith--and faith from science--the picture becomes less muddled.

 

[Meriweather]

So basically, you've built a fantasy world around yourself, which, if you're not hurting anyone else, is ok, I suppose. But don't think that you've found some ultimate truth or anything, because all you really have is self delusion, a kind of magical place where no proof is required, just a willing imagination.

Sigh. No, it's not fantasy, but if that's the only word you understand, we'll have to work with it. I have not "found" anything, and certainly not "some ultimate truth." If I had, I would said that. To us, the people who are deluding themselves are those who think this physical life is the only reality. Anything more may be too scary to contemplate. And that's fine.

 

[hobelim]

There is no proof of how we came to be. Only theory. Yet, don't you believe in a particular theory?

No, I don't. I'm following science. There are prevailing theories on the Big Bang and things like that, but it's easy to see that their theories are incomplete, which they fully admit. So not believing, just following with interest to see where it goes. But it's all based on science and reai experiments that give real conclusions... They don't just make shit up like religious book writers do.

How about anything "other worldly", not using the right word, but, like ghosts, spirits, paranormal stuff?

Those haven't been proven, and unlike science with the Hadron collider at CERN, space telescopes and other experiments, they aren't even looking for real for those things. So it can all be good fun, but not proven. Not even close.

Using a telescope to find proof of a higher realm of conscious life is like using a calculator to try and understand poetry.

Everything that a person thinks, sees, feels, dreams, perceives, understands or doesn't understand occurs in the brain.

Given that, the only tool or instrument at our disposal to investigate such things, the mind, should be disinfected and purified first so that the results of any inquiry will not be distorted or perverted by contaminating prejudices, irrational thoughts, or unsubstantiated assumptions. Just like any scientist would sterilize his laboratory, disinfect his beakers, calibrate his measuring devices and polish his microscope lenses before conducting an experiment to discover the truth about something.

As far as heaven goes, one cannot ever find proof of heaven if they do not even know what the term indicates or where or how to look.

"The kingdom of Heaven is within"

Jesus said to the pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them and they never even looked at a telescope..

This shows that heaven is something that can be experienced right here on earth before you die a physical death.

you don't have to just believe in heaven, you can have all the proof for its reality that you could handle just by entering into it. then it would be impossible for you to not believe.



Hope that helps.

.

I'm not saying to use a telescope specifically, but that science finds tools to use and probe the unknown. Religions don't. They just make up shit like what's in the bible where "Jesus said" or "god commanded" ... And religions have even stopped looking for answers, as they think they have them all when it comes to invisible people.

I can't argue with your problem with religion so, nevermind if you have no interest in what believers don't even try to grasp either..

 

[hobelim]

It is not so much of a possibility of a spiritual being existing that we have issues with. It is the claim that the spirit also controls the physical that we have trouble with.

If your spirit, your incorporeal consciousness, does not control the physical, your body, what does?

advertisements? Slogans? group think? Emotional impulses? Fear?

What you call spirit, I call consciousness, a physical process of thinking in the brain. My consciousness also doesn't control my physical world, but I do try!

Are you claiming all life with brains have spirit? Even brainless life controls a bit of their environment. They have spirit too?

all that I am saying is that it is rather silly to express a disbelief in spirit when what you already believe about consciousness is the exact same thing.


And no consciousness is not a physical anything.

If your brain was dissected right now no one would find any physical evidence that your consciousness was ever there.

 

[Taz]

So basically, you've built a fantasy world around yourself, which, if you're not hurting anyone else, is ok, I suppose. But don't think that you've found some ultimate truth or anything, because all you really have is self delusion, a kind of magical place where no proof is required, just a willing imagination.

Sigh. No, it's not fantasy, but if that's the only word you understand, we'll have to work with it. I have not "found" anything, and certainly not "some ultimate truth." If I had, I would said that. To us, the people who are deluding themselves are those who think this physical life is the only reality. Anything more may be too scary to contemplate. And that's fine.

I never said that this is all there is, but you sure haven't shown anything more, that's for sure. It's all just wishful thinking on your part.

 

[MarkDuffy]

It is not so much of a possibility of a spiritual being existing that we have issues with. It is the claim that the spirit also controls the physical that we have trouble with.

I understand. Good point. The physical has physical laws. Therefore, I do not believe God "sent" the flood. Keep in mind people in ancient times saw everything as an act of God. Muslims today still hold to that belief. Many believe fingers can only move through God's will. People can only feed themselves through God's will, or an act of God.

Other places in the Bible paint a different kind of picture. The world has dark valleys (and times). But through good and bad, God is with us and helps us through the spiritual side of our human existence. For those who believe in holistic health, our spirit can affect our health--just as our health can affect our spirit. No way of proving, but are some people restored to health, because it is their spiritual health that triggered the physical reaction? This might explain cures doctors have no way of explaining in one patient--and no way of duplicating in another.

When people on both sides separate science from faith--and faith from science--the picture becomes less muddled.

The separation is the problem. If faith is true, it must live in a scientific world seamlessly.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
if christians are saying they have a closeness to the Almighty through their bible history proves otherwise and they are the problem in advancing forward the 1st century events to fruition. theirs to be honest is to recuse themselves from those events they misrepresent.

whether those qualities of the 1st century will bring tangible proof or not those were the objectives to be discovered not the 4th century bible's deliberate works to circumvent - the Free Spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

I never said that this is all there is, but you sure haven't shown anything more, that's for sure. It's all just wishful thinking on your part.

Shrug. If you say so. Some day perhaps you will reach a different understanding.

 

[Meriweather]

The separation is the problem. If faith is true, it must live in a scientific world seamlessly.

This isn't hard for many/most of us. I understand some fundamentalists tie themselves up in knots over things like evolution, a world-wide flood, young earth, etc. This is what causes many of the problems we see here on this forum, with people clinging fiercely to the idea of proof. We need to move on past that.

Our lives are more.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You mean, when people pointed out the lie, there is no point in taking the time?

I mean when people have no interest in God, there is no point taking the time.

"
I mean when people have no interest in God, there is no point taking the time."

Yes, it helps to come to believe something, when you already believe it. Just as it helps to "know" something by "knowing it".

 

[Taz]

I never said that this is all there is, but you sure haven't shown anything more, that's for sure. It's all just wishful thinking on your part.

Shrug. If you say so. Some day perhaps you will reach a different understanding.

What have you shown about your theories? Nothing. Show me something, ANYTHING, like, what kind of experience do you consider an interaction with god, and why? And try to make some sense, like, tie it all together in some reasonably plausible way. Because right now, you've shown nothing for me to connect the dots and maybe say "hey, I see where she's coming from, maybe she has something"...

 

[Taz]

The separation is the problem. If faith is true, it must live in a scientific world seamlessly.

This isn't hard for many/most of us. I understand some fundamentalists tie themselves up in knots over things like evolution, a world-wide flood, young earth, etc. This is what causes many of the problems we see here on this forum, with people clinging fiercely to the idea of proof. We need to move on past that.

Our lives are more.

So then the universe is ruled by the Great Spaghetti Monster and his antipasto minions. Why not?

 

[Bonzi]

Would you agree there is an explanation for everything?

 

[Taz]

Would you agree there is an explanation for everything?

Yes. But in a world of fake news, people explain anything away with total nonsense sometimes.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I will tell you my one funniest God experience. It was hilarious. If you have read the Bible you know God has a great sense of humor.

After the 07 wildfires I spent every weekend helping people sift thru the rubble of their leveled homes. Every day I would come home looking like a coal miner. The team I was with would start by asking the homeowner what they hoped to recover and approximately where was it. Then we would pray and then get started sifting. One lady just wanted her wedding ring from her late husband. It was the only thing found in the entire home that was not melted.

Another home the homeowner just said whatever you can find. I only found one usable thing in the entire house - a coffee cup that said "King of All That I Own"

But that was not it.

After weeks of doing this, while sifting rubble I heard a clear distinct voice saying "You are finished, go home." After a few seconds of wow I looked at my watch, it was 11. So I figured I would work an hour then tell the team I'm dropping out during lunch. Couple of minutes later I have something stuck to the bottom of my shoe from the rubble. I scrap my foot to try to remove it. It is stuck. So I look down at my shoe and there is a 4 inch nail coming up straight out of the top of my shoe. Right in the center just below the shoe laces. My first thought was this is going to really hurt. Then I started to wiggle my foot. Still no pain. I take off my shoe. The nail had gone up at an angle to miss my foot and still go thru my shoe.

Moral of the story learned - when God says do something, you do it immediately. It only cost me a pair of shoes to learn that one.

Geez, hate to say it, but as a god experience, that's really quite lame.

Christian friend of mine had a much more interesting message from God. Many records of God communicating with us thru dreams. My buddy dreamt he was going to die. With a lot of people. The dream was so real to him he increased his life insurance. A year later he was on flight 93 on 9-11-01. He was one of the four that led the first battle in this long war against Islamic terrorism.

How is that god communicating with him so that he increases his life insurance?

Christian friend of mine was a retired Lt. Colonel in the Marines. He did two tours in Vietnam. We had talks, and one thing that really bothered him even decades later was the men who said they were going to die and ended up dying on the next mission. My buddy took it personally that he had failed as their commander to keep their attitude from going in that direction thus causing their death. I could tell it had been eating him up for decades. I told him, Ray, maybe God told them what was ahead. That helped him a lot.


I believe is some cases God gives us insight into the future so we can prepare.

Why would god tell them that they're going to die?
Wouldn't god simply prevent the death from happening by putting him in another situation?

Fireman friend of mine went to a late night fire at a strip mall. One man goes on the roof to cut a hole so heat can escape. He and two others go inside the burning building to make sure no one is inside. My buddy radios the guy on the roof asking if he is done yet, it is still really hot in there. He gets the affirmative, hole has been cut in the roof. (As it turned out a hole was cut in the business next door, the wrong roof.) So my friend continues to go in with a buddy on each side of him.
All of a sudden my buddy hears a voice. STOP. My buddy instinctively stops. The firemen at his side didn't hear anything but see him freeze so they stop too. Just then right in front of them a 5 ton air conditioning unit crashes down from the roof. Right where they would have been if he had not stopped.
God is always watching out for us. Sometimes it is time to go home, sometimes it is not.

 

[hobelim]

Geez, hate to say it, but as a god experience, that's really quite lame.

Christian friend of mine had a much more interesting message from God. Many records of God communicating with us thru dreams. My buddy dreamt he was going to die. With a lot of people. The dream was so real to him he increased his life insurance. A year later he was on flight 93 on 9-11-01. He was one of the four that led the first battle in this long war against Islamic terrorism.

How is that god communicating with him so that he increases his life insurance?

Christian friend of mine was a retired Lt. Colonel in the Marines. He did two tours in Vietnam. We had talks, and one thing that really bothered him even decades later was the men who said they were going to die and ended up dying on the next mission. My buddy took it personally that he had failed as their commander to keep their attitude from going in that direction thus causing their death. I could tell it had been eating him up for decades. I told him, Ray, maybe God told them what was ahead. That helped him a lot.


I believe is some cases God gives us insight into the future so we can prepare.

Why would god tell them that they're going to die?
Wouldn't god simply prevent the death from happening by putting him in another situation?

Fireman friend of mine went to a late night fire at a strip mall. One man goes on the roof to cut a hole so heat can escape. He and two others go inside the burning building to make sure no one is inside. My buddy radios the guy on the roof asking if he is done yet, it is still really hot in there. He gets the affirmative, hole has been cut in the roof. (As it turned out a hole was cut in the business next door, the wrong roof.) So my friend continues to go in with a buddy on each side of him.
All of a sudden my buddy hears a voice. STOP. My buddy instinctively stops. The firemen at his side didn't hear anything but see him freeze so they stop too. Just then right in front of them a 5 ton air conditioning unit crashes down from the roof. Right where they would have been if he had not stopped.
God is always watching out for us. Sometimes it is time to go home, sometimes it is not.

Nice story.

Once the family of a dying elderly woman all came to visit her to pray for her recovery telling her that if she had the faith asked for forgiveness and just believed that God would heal her she would get better because sin was what made her sick. When she didn't get better they told her that her faith must be lacking. Then she died.

I sure hope God was watching those bastards make an old woman feel bad about herself in her dying days.

 

[Taz]

Geez, hate to say it, but as a god experience, that's really quite lame.

Christian friend of mine had a much more interesting message from God. Many records of God communicating with us thru dreams. My buddy dreamt he was going to die. With a lot of people. The dream was so real to him he increased his life insurance. A year later he was on flight 93 on 9-11-01. He was one of the four that led the first battle in this long war against Islamic terrorism.

How is that god communicating with him so that he increases his life insurance?

Christian friend of mine was a retired Lt. Colonel in the Marines. He did two tours in Vietnam. We had talks, and one thing that really bothered him even decades later was the men who said they were going to die and ended up dying on the next mission. My buddy took it personally that he had failed as their commander to keep their attitude from going in that direction thus causing their death. I could tell it had been eating him up for decades. I told him, Ray, maybe God told them what was ahead. That helped him a lot.


I believe is some cases God gives us insight into the future so we can prepare.

Why would god tell them that they're going to die?
Wouldn't god simply prevent the death from happening by putting him in another situation?

Fireman friend of mine went to a late night fire at a strip mall. One man goes on the roof to cut a hole so heat can escape. He and two others go inside the burning building to make sure no one is inside. My buddy radios the guy on the roof asking if he is done yet, it is still really hot in there. He gets the affirmative, hole has been cut in the roof. (As it turned out a hole was cut in the business next door, the wrong roof.) So my friend continues to go in with a buddy on each side of him.
All of a sudden my buddy hears a voice. STOP. My buddy instinctively stops. The firemen at his side didn't hear anything but see him freeze so they stop too. Just then right in front of them a 5 ton air conditioning unit crashes down from the roof. Right where they would have been if he had not stopped.
God is always watching out for us. Sometimes it is time to go home, sometimes it is not.

So he talks to himself in his head and thought that it might be a good idea to stop and check out the scene instead of charging in like a dead fool. That wasn't god, that was common sense.
Anyways, if that's the case, why doesn't god save all the gunshot victims in a similar manner? Sandy Hook... Why didn't god tell them to get out? Or tell the police to go there? Or strike the motherfucker down?

 

[Taz]

Christian friend of mine had a much more interesting message from God. Many records of God communicating with us thru dreams. My buddy dreamt he was going to die. With a lot of people. The dream was so real to him he increased his life insurance. A year later he was on flight 93 on 9-11-01. He was one of the four that led the first battle in this long war against Islamic terrorism.

How is that god communicating with him so that he increases his life insurance?

Christian friend of mine was a retired Lt. Colonel in the Marines. He did two tours in Vietnam. We had talks, and one thing that really bothered him even decades later was the men who said they were going to die and ended up dying on the next mission. My buddy took it personally that he had failed as their commander to keep their attitude from going in that direction thus causing their death. I could tell it had been eating him up for decades. I told him, Ray, maybe God told them what was ahead. That helped him a lot.


I believe is some cases God gives us insight into the future so we can prepare.

Why would god tell them that they're going to die?
Wouldn't god simply prevent the death from happening by putting him in another situation?

Fireman friend of mine went to a late night fire at a strip mall. One man goes on the roof to cut a hole so heat can escape. He and two others go inside the burning building to make sure no one is inside. My buddy radios the guy on the roof asking if he is done yet, it is still really hot in there. He gets the affirmative, hole has been cut in the roof. (As it turned out a hole was cut in the business next door, the wrong roof.) So my friend continues to go in with a buddy on each side of him.
All of a sudden my buddy hears a voice. STOP. My buddy instinctively stops. The firemen at his side didn't hear anything but see him freeze so they stop too. Just then right in front of them a 5 ton air conditioning unit crashes down from the roof. Right where they would have been if he had not stopped.
God is always watching out for us. Sometimes it is time to go home, sometimes it is not.

Nice story.

Once the family of a dying elderly woman all came to visit her to pray for her recovery telling her that if she had the faith asked for forgiveness and just believed that God would heal her she would get better because sin was what made her sick. When she didn't get better they told her that her faith must be lacking. Then she died.

I sure hope God was watching those bastards make an old woman feel bad about herself in her dying days.

According to Weather, god should have stopped those nuts from doing that.