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No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
The people at the time often relied on word of mouth from those they trusted instead of written records as would be the standard in the 20th century.
The fact is that a racially segregated South paid war pensions to black troops for years after the war.
That should be enough for any reasonable person to find convincing.
Then provide the records- or links to them.
As the very author you cited says:
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
It is a fact that the South paid pensions to black veterans I don't have time to go dig it up so that you can just ignore it.
If you really want to know the Truth of the matter, then dig it up your own damned self. I really could not care less if you live under one more ideological nit wittery or not.
So you have nothing to support your claim.
LOL....not a shock there.
There were no black Confederate soldiers.No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
The people at the time often relied on word of mouth from those they trusted instead of written records as would be the standard in the 20th century.
The fact is that a racially segregated South paid war pensions to black troops for years after the war.
That should be enough for any reasonable person to find convincing.
Then provide the records- or links to them.
As the very author you cited says:
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
It is a fact that the South paid pensions to black veterans I don't have time to go dig it up so that you can just ignore it.
If you really want to know the Truth of the matter, then dig it up your own damned self. I really could not care less if you live under one more ideological nit wittery or not.
So you have nothing to support your claim.
LOL....not a shock there.
"African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners. "
Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War Mississippi History Now
Check your dates again. The 'attack' you speak of what on January 8th. Florida didn't secede until January 10th.The South started the war by firing on American troops, and invaded the loyal states multiple times.
The Union fired the first shots at Pensecola's Ft Pickens
Fort Pickens - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
And the South only did counter-invasions in a vain effort to encourage the Union to keep troops home for defense.
You don't know what you are talking about.
It wasn't an attack by the confederacy or against it. It was some local idiots who tried to burglarize Ft. Barrancas.
Yep, I stand corrected, it was Ft Barrancas. And they were not 'local idiots' as you put it but the local state militia coming to ask the surrender of the fort as secession was known to be imminent.
As they hadn't seceded, your argument is even hypothetically impossible. As even according to the Confederacy, a State is still part of the US until it secedes. Thus on January 8th, according to everyone, Florida was part of the US.
"After the war, R.L. Sweetman of Mobile, Alabama, informed Slemmer that he had been one of the men seen at the drawbridge that night. According to his version of events, word had reached parties of volunteers and militia forming in the area that the U.S. troops had evacuated Fort Barrancas. He went with a friend to see if the report was true, only to encounter the fire of the guards at the gate of the fort. No one was injured, but he and his comrade quickly ran to safety."
Civil War Florida January 8 1861 - Fort Barrancas and the First Shots of the War
First, your account isn't of a milita action. But a guy and his friend following a rumor.
Second, see above.
He was in the militia and the Union fired on him and his friends.
Proof positive the Union fired first, though I know you don't like it.
Shots in wars are often fired just before the commencement of official hostilities and shortly afterwards as well. These casualties are still considered part of the war casualties and monies paid out.
John Stauffer Goes Looking For Black Confederates and Comes Up Empty Again CIVIL WAR MEMORY200,000 blacks fought for the North- a large amount of whom were escapted- and freed slaves.
Please provide some evidence that 'thousands of blacks' fought for the South- I have looked- and other than the slaves accompanying their masters into battle, I have found little documented evidence of free blacks fighting for the Confederacy.
“Black Confederates” is one of the most controversial ideas of the Civil War era and American memory more generally. Today, neo-Confederates claim that thousands of blacks loyally fought as soldiers for the South and that hundreds of thousands more served the Confederacy as laborers. These claims have become a staple among Southern heritage groups and are taught in some Southern schools. Their function is to purge t...he Confederacy from its association with slavery and redeem the white South from guilt over its past. In this they have been partly successful: according to a recent poll, 70% of white Southerners continue to believe that the Confederacy was motivated by states rights rather than slavery.
Academic historians, in reaction to these claims, have totally dismissed the idea that more than a handful of African Americans could have served as Confederate soldiers. To suggest otherwise, they say, is to engage in “a pattern of distortion, deception, and deceit” in the use of evidence.
But according to African Americans themselves, writing during the war, thousands of blacks did fight as soldiers for the South. In my presentation, I assess and contextualize the sources, examine case studies of blacks fighting for the Confederacy, and explain how and why it happened and how Northern black leaders understood this phenomenon. Along the way I reveal the richly diverse ways in which blacks acted on their understandings of freedom."
John Stauffer Lectures on Black Confederates at Harvard CIVIL WAR MEMORY
Again, I ask where is the evidence that these men existed? Where are the military records that I assume Stauffer poured through in preparation for his talk and this essay?
In the end, what John Stauffer doesn’t seem to understand is that Confederate authorities (civilian and military) were very clear about who was and who was not a soldier. Stauffer, like the vast majority of neo-Confederates seem to have no problem trotting out Union accounts purporting to show that there were black soldiers in Confederate ranks.
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
Why golly gee, my second cousin Earl went looking for proof that Obama was an American and couldn't find it either, so wow, Obama must not be American, by your idiot logic.
Same author you cited to support your claim.
And here you don't believe him.
I believe he didn't find what he was looking for, but I know that does not prove there were non such.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
Here's who they are actually referring to, slaves following their masters.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
Not commitment to the Confederacy. Commitment to their masters. And not in combat roles. But that of body servant, forager, and nurse:
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
This written by confederate veterans for a confederate veteran audience.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
Here's who they are actually referring to, slaves following their masters.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
Not commitment to the Confederacy. Commitment to their masters. And not in combat roles. But that of body servant, forager, and nurse:
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
This written by confederate veterans for a confederate veteran audience.
Good Lord, you libtards just don't understand how critical thinking works here.
Just because some blacks serving in the Confederate army were slaves following their masters, it does not prove that they all were.
And support troops are in fact soldiers also, from cooks to mail handlers, etc. IF they were serving in the army they were soldiers and history is also full of slaves who were also soldiers, so being a slave does not mean that you cannot be a soldier at the same time.
But your claim is just horse shit any way.
"Black Confederate military units, both as freemen and slaves, fought federal troops. Louisiana free blacks gave their reason for fighting in a letter written to New Orleans' Daily Delta: "The free colored population love their home, their property, their own slaves and recognize no other country than Louisiana, and are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for Abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana. They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought in 1814-15." As to bravery, one black scolded the commanding general of the state militia, saying, "Pardon me, general, but the only cowardly blood we have got in our veins is the white blood."
Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest had slaves and freemen serving in units under his command. After the war, Forrest said of the black men who served under him, "These boys stayed with me.. - and better Confederates did not live." Articles in "Black Southerners in Gray," edited by Richard Rollins, gives numerous accounts of blacks serving as fighting men or servants in every battle from Gettysburg to Vicksburg.
Professor Ed Smith, director of American Studies at American University, says Stonewall Jackson had 3,000 fully equipped black troops scattered throughout his corps at Antietam - the war's bloodiest battle. Mr. Smith calculates that between 60,000 and 93,000 blacks served the Confederacy in some capacity. They fought for the same reason they fought in previous wars and wars afterward: "to position themselves. They had to prove they were patriots in the hope the future would be better ... they hoped to be rewarded."
Blacks who fought for the South News Article
No- Lincoln never advocated the involuntary deportation of blacks- he proposed a plan for voluntary resettlement of American blacks to Africa and was surprised when he found out that they no more wanted to return to Africa than English Americans wanted to return to the place their ancestors came from 200 years before
And that's still true today. Blacks in america have a better life than they would have in africa. They bitch and bitch about america but they know that white means prosperity and black means poverty.
Thats what all the racists keep saying.
That all racists, which is bullshit, might say that blacks have better lives here in the US, does not prove that all who say it are racists.
Take a critical thinking course sometime.
In the mean time your hateful efforts to divide Americans along racial lines and prevent healing is going to be defeated. Your side is doomed due to the preponderance of idiots on your side.
I am not the one claiming that one race is more intelligent than the other- that would be Speedy the Racist.
I have yet to see any evidence that you have any concept of what critical thinking is.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
Here's who they are actually referring to, slaves following their masters.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
Not commitment to the Confederacy. Commitment to their masters. And not in combat roles. But that of body servant, forager, and nurse:
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
This written by confederate veterans for a confederate veteran audience.
Good Lord, you libtards just don't understand how critical thinking works here.
Just because some blacks serving in the Confederate army were slaves following their masters, it does not prove that they all were.
And support troops are in fact soldiers also, from cooks to mail handlers, etc. IF they were serving in the army they were soldiers and history is also full of slaves who were also soldiers, so being a slave does not mean that you cannot be a soldier at the same time.
But your claim is just horse shit any way.
"Black Confederate military units, both as freemen and slaves, fought federal troops. Louisiana free blacks gave their reason for fighting in a letter written to New Orleans' Daily Delta: "The free colored population love their home, their property, their own slaves and recognize no other country than Louisiana, and are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for Abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana. They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought in 1814-15." As to bravery, one black scolded the commanding general of the state militia, saying, "Pardon me, general, but the only cowardly blood we have got in our veins is the white blood."
Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest had slaves and freemen serving in units under his command. After the war, Forrest said of the black men who served under him, "These boys stayed with me.. - and better Confederates did not live." Articles in "Black Southerners in Gray," edited by Richard Rollins, gives numerous accounts of blacks serving as fighting men or servants in every battle from Gettysburg to Vicksburg.
Professor Ed Smith, director of American Studies at American University, says Stonewall Jackson had 3,000 fully equipped black troops scattered throughout his corps at Antietam - the war's bloodiest battle. Mr. Smith calculates that between 60,000 and 93,000 blacks served the Confederacy in some capacity. They fought for the same reason they fought in previous wars and wars afterward: "to position themselves. They had to prove they were patriots in the hope the future would be better ... they hoped to be rewarded."
Blacks who fought for the South News Article
Check your dates again. The 'attack' you speak of what on January 8th. Florida didn't secede until January 10th.The Union fired the first shots at Pensecola's Ft Pickens
Fort Pickens - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
And the South only did counter-invasions in a vain effort to encourage the Union to keep troops home for defense.
You don't know what you are talking about.
It wasn't an attack by the confederacy or against it. It was some local idiots who tried to burglarize Ft. Barrancas.
Yep, I stand corrected, it was Ft Barrancas. And they were not 'local idiots' as you put it but the local state militia coming to ask the surrender of the fort as secession was known to be imminent.
As they hadn't seceded, your argument is even hypothetically impossible. As even according to the Confederacy, a State is still part of the US until it secedes. Thus on January 8th, according to everyone, Florida was part of the US.
"After the war, R.L. Sweetman of Mobile, Alabama, informed Slemmer that he had been one of the men seen at the drawbridge that night. According to his version of events, word had reached parties of volunteers and militia forming in the area that the U.S. troops had evacuated Fort Barrancas. He went with a friend to see if the report was true, only to encounter the fire of the guards at the gate of the fort. No one was injured, but he and his comrade quickly ran to safety."
Civil War Florida January 8 1861 - Fort Barrancas and the First Shots of the War
First, your account isn't of a milita action. But a guy and his friend following a rumor.
Second, see above.
He was in the militia and the Union fired on him and his friends.
Proof positive the Union fired first, though I know you don't like it.
Shots in wars are often fired just before the commencement of official hostilities and shortly afterwards as well. These casualties are still considered part of the war casualties and monies paid out.
What casualties?
They were not Confederate troops- they were not in a state that had seceded- and they were fired on by American troops guarding a fort who thought they were under attack.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
Here's who they are actually referring to, slaves following their masters.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
Not commitment to the Confederacy. Commitment to their masters. And not in combat roles. But that of body servant, forager, and nurse:
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
This written by confederate veterans for a confederate veteran audience.
Good Lord, you libtards just don't understand how critical thinking works here.
Just because some blacks serving in the Confederate army were slaves following their masters, it does not prove that they all were.
And support troops are in fact soldiers also, from cooks to mail handlers, etc. IF they were serving in the army they were soldiers and history is also full of slaves who were also soldiers, so being a slave does not mean that you cannot be a soldier at the same time.
But your claim is just horse shit any way.
"Black Confederate military units, both as freemen and slaves, fought federal troops. Louisiana free blacks gave their reason for fighting in a letter written to New Orleans' Daily Delta: "The free colored population love their home, their property, their own slaves and recognize no other country than Louisiana, and are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for Abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana. They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought in 1814-15." As to bravery, one black scolded the commanding general of the state militia, saying, "Pardon me, general, but the only cowardly blood we have got in our veins is the white blood."
Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest had slaves and freemen serving in units under his command. After the war, Forrest said of the black men who served under him, "These boys stayed with me.. - and better Confederates did not live." Articles in "Black Southerners in Gray," edited by Richard Rollins, gives numerous accounts of blacks serving as fighting men or servants in every battle from Gettysburg to Vicksburg.
Professor Ed Smith, director of American Studies at American University, says Stonewall Jackson had 3,000 fully equipped black troops scattered throughout his corps at Antietam - the war's bloodiest battle. Mr. Smith calculates that between 60,000 and 93,000 blacks served the Confederacy in some capacity. They fought for the same reason they fought in previous wars and wars afterward: "to position themselves. They had to prove they were patriots in the hope the future would be better ... they hoped to be rewarded."
Blacks who fought for the South News Article
Yeah, that fails the standards that Sy offered you. Check again:
Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
Show us the account of the Confederate Soldier, Officer or Politician. Not someone writing an article about them.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
Here's who they are actually referring to, slaves following their masters.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
Not commitment to the Confederacy. Commitment to their masters. And not in combat roles. But that of body servant, forager, and nurse:
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
This written by confederate veterans for a confederate veteran audience.
Good Lord, you libtards just don't understand how critical thinking works here.
Just because some blacks serving in the Confederate army were slaves following their masters, it does not prove that they all were.
And support troops are in fact soldiers also, from cooks to mail handlers, etc. IF they were serving in the army they were soldiers and history is also full of slaves who were also soldiers, so being a slave does not mean that you cannot be a soldier at the same time.
But your claim is just horse shit any way.
"Black Confederate military units, both as freemen and slaves, fought federal troops. Louisiana free blacks gave their reason for fighting in a letter written to New Orleans' Daily Delta: "The free colored population love their home, their property, their own slaves and recognize no other country than Louisiana, and are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for Abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana. They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought in 1814-15." As to bravery, one black scolded the commanding general of the state militia, saying, "Pardon me, general, but the only cowardly blood we have got in our veins is the white blood."
Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest had slaves and freemen serving in units under his command. After the war, Forrest said of the black men who served under him, "These boys stayed with me.. - and better Confederates did not live." Articles in "Black Southerners in Gray," edited by Richard Rollins, gives numerous accounts of blacks serving as fighting men or servants in every battle from Gettysburg to Vicksburg.
Professor Ed Smith, director of American Studies at American University, says Stonewall Jackson had 3,000 fully equipped black troops scattered throughout his corps at Antietam - the war's bloodiest battle. Mr. Smith calculates that between 60,000 and 93,000 blacks served the Confederacy in some capacity. They fought for the same reason they fought in previous wars and wars afterward: "to position themselves. They had to prove they were patriots in the hope the future would be better ... they hoped to be rewarded."
Blacks who fought for the South News Article
Yeah, that fails the standards that Sy offered you. Check again:
Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
Show us the account of the Confederate Soldier, Officer or Politician. Not someone writing an article about them.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
The people at the time often relied on word of mouth from those they trusted instead of written records as would be the standard in the 20th century.
The fact is that a racially segregated South paid war pensions to black troops for years after the war.
That should be enough for any reasonable person to find convincing.
Then provide the records- or links to them.
As the very author you cited says:
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
It is a fact that the South paid pensions to black veterans I don't have time to go dig it up so that you can just ignore it.
If you really want to know the Truth of the matter, then dig it up your own damned self. I really could not care less if you live under one more ideological nit wittery or not.
So you have nothing to support your claim.
LOL....not a shock there.
"African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners. "
Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War Mississippi History Now
What a ridiculous response. As though having a phud makes one the Pope or some shit, lol.
No, heads of departments are political animals more than scholars, and this cretin was merely tossing up regurgitated old bullshit for more people like yourself to swallow.
Do you ever actually THINK for yourself or is it always just who ever has the longest list of credentials you think is right?
Facts:
1) the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the Union, it was a war measure to weaken the Souths economy. As some areas fell under Union control in the back and forth of war, after the EP the North had a legal basis for freeing slaves and leaving a crippled economy in their wake along with the ravages caused by typical looting and foraging.
You didn't even watch the video did you?
No one is claiming that the Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery in the United States- Lincoln himself proclaimed it was a war measure.
What that has to do with whether the Civil War was fought over slavery?
As the video pointed out- there is no escaping the conclusion that the Southern slave holding states rebelled over the issue of slavery.
Yes, I did watch the video and the statement that there is 'no escaping the conclusion' that leftist ideologues preach to us is total bullshit and not valid objective history.
Well lets go through step by step.
The Colonel says that slavery was by the far the main cause of the Civil War.
Do you disagree with that- and if so- provide something to counter the quotes that the Colonel presented as part of his argument.
I have yet to see you offer anything other than your hardly objective opinion.
I gave three reasons for my claim that slavery was only one cause, a catalytic cause, if you know what that is, and I gave a reason why I found his analysis to be invalid.
So you have done with this thread the same shallow, jump to conclusion analysis that you have done with the Civil War itself.
Gosh
And, once again, someone posted a link to the Cornerstone Speech. I think the vice-president of the confederacy would be a pretty good authority on why the states seceded and why the war was fought.
No one in their right mind can claim that upwards of 6,000 black men served as soldiers in Confederate ranks without having consulted specific military records.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
Here's who they are actually referring to, slaves following their masters.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States....
...... He cannot live much longer, and we should pension him. There are not so many old negroes who saw this kind of service in the war that the expense would be heavy. We are sure that not a normal human bring in all the South would begrudge the old darkies who served their masters at the front a pension commensurate with their great services and the capacity of the State to pay.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
Confederate veteran serial
Not commitment to the Confederacy. Commitment to their masters. And not in combat roles. But that of body servant, forager, and nurse:
"Behold the picture: Black, ignorant, yet faithful, the servant of the sixties, at the call of his master, was quick to leave the old plantation and go to the front to bear the burdens of the master, forage for him, and nurse him while sick or wounded, and in death lifted the body of his beloved master, bore it from the battle field, and took it back to the old plantation and family burying ground. The negro slave delighted in serving his white folks.
The Confederate Veteran, October Issue, 1913
This written by confederate veterans for a confederate veteran audience.
Good Lord, you libtards just don't understand how critical thinking works here.
Just because some blacks serving in the Confederate army were slaves following their masters, it does not prove that they all were.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
The people at the time often relied on word of mouth from those they trusted instead of written records as would be the standard in the 20th century.
The fact is that a racially segregated South paid war pensions to black troops for years after the war.
That should be enough for any reasonable person to find convincing.
Then provide the records- or links to them.
As the very author you cited says:
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
It is a fact that the South paid pensions to black veterans I don't have time to go dig it up so that you can just ignore it.
If you really want to know the Truth of the matter, then dig it up your own damned self. I really could not care less if you live under one more ideological nit wittery or not.
So you have nothing to support your claim.
LOL....not a shock there.
"African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners. "
Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War Mississippi History Now
I have a question for you- are you a poor reader- or a liar?
The very article you cite says that the pensions were not for black soldiers:
African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners.
Initially, Mississippi’s pensions for Confederate veterans were limited to soldiers or sailors and their former servants with a disability sustained during the war, such as the loss of a limb, that prevented them from engaging in manual labor, and to women who had been widowed during the war and had not remarried. In 1892, Mississippi expanded the eligibility for pensions to include veterans, their former servants, and unmarried widows “who are now resident in this State, and who are indigent and not able to earn support by their own labor.”
Pension applications from African Americans in Mississippi were forwarded to the state auditor’s office by pension boards in each county. These applications are now on file in the Mississippi Department of Archives and History, where they are intermingled with applications from white soldiers and widows, all of which are filed alphabetically by last name. Black pensioners can be identified by the special application form that servants were required to use. A review of the applications for Confederate pensions in Mississippi – about 36,000 – reveals 1,739 applications from African Americans.
Pension applications
Pension applications for African Americans were different from those used for soldiers or widows. Questions on the applications for servants asked for the applicant’s name, age, the name of the person he had served during the Civil War, and the dates of his service. Questions also asked the unit to which the applicant’s master had been assigned
The pension statutes in Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee, for example, were intended primarily to reward the service of servants or cooks whose masters were assigned to units in the Confederate army. Despite state variations, an overall pattern of service among the black pensioners is clear. On average, 85 percent of the black pensioners served as servants or cooks with the Confederate army.
A central question about these men is whether some of them ever became soldiers. Unfortunately, applications submitted by black pensioners do not address this question. By filling out a servant’s application, these men acknowledged at the onset that they were noncombatants, not soldiers.
And anyone that has done the slightest attempt to look at primary sources on the Civil War knows that there are many things that happen in all wars that are never documented. Records get destroyed, like what happened at the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, and some volunteers that serve in militia units are never documented officially but in other places like civilian courts years later.
The people at the time often relied on word of mouth from those they trusted instead of written records as would be the standard in the 20th century.
The fact is that a racially segregated South paid war pensions to black troops for years after the war.
That should be enough for any reasonable person to find convincing.
Then provide the records- or links to them.
As the very author you cited says:
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
It is a fact that the South paid pensions to black veterans I don't have time to go dig it up so that you can just ignore it.
If you really want to know the Truth of the matter, then dig it up your own damned self. I really could not care less if you live under one more ideological nit wittery or not.
So you have nothing to support your claim.
LOL....not a shock there.
"African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners. "
Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War Mississippi History Now
I have a question for you- are you a poor reader- or a liar?
The very article you cite says that the pensions were not for black soldiers:
African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners.
Initially, Mississippi’s pensions for Confederate veterans were limited to soldiers or sailors and their former servants with a disability sustained during the war, such as the loss of a limb, that prevented them from engaging in manual labor, and to women who had been widowed during the war and had not remarried. In 1892, Mississippi expanded the eligibility for pensions to include veterans, their former servants, and unmarried widows “who are now resident in this State, and who are indigent and not able to earn support by their own labor.”
Pension applications from African Americans in Mississippi were forwarded to the state auditor’s office by pension boards in each county. These applications are now on file in the Mississippi Department of Archives and History, where they are intermingled with applications from white soldiers and widows, all of which are filed alphabetically by last name. Black pensioners can be identified by the special application form that servants were required to use. A review of the applications for Confederate pensions in Mississippi – about 36,000 – reveals 1,739 applications from African Americans.
Pension applications
Pension applications for African Americans were different from those used for soldiers or widows. Questions on the applications for servants asked for the applicant’s name, age, the name of the person he had served during the Civil War, and the dates of his service. Questions also asked the unit to which the applicant’s master had been assigned
The pension statutes in Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee, for example, were intended primarily to reward the service of servants or cooks whose masters were assigned to units in the Confederate army. Despite state variations, an overall pattern of service among the black pensioners is clear. On average, 85 percent of the black pensioners served as servants or cooks with the Confederate army.
A central question about these men is whether some of them ever became soldiers. Unfortunately, applications submitted by black pensioners do not address this question. By filling out a servant’s application, these men acknowledged at the onset that they were noncombatants, not soldiers.
. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.
Yeah, what the fuck would the Vice-President of the Confederacy know about the Civil war and its causes. Clearly the revisionists know better.
Yeah because the slave owners point of view was the only one in the south and they did all the fighting.
Then provide the records- or links to them.
As the very author you cited says:
I will issue the same challenge to Stauffer that I have to anyone who has made claims about the existence of black Confederate soldiers. Please find me one wartime account from a Confederate soldier, officer or politician who mentions that black men fought as soldiers in the army. I am not asking for fifty or one hundred, just one.
It is a fact that the South paid pensions to black veterans I don't have time to go dig it up so that you can just ignore it.
If you really want to know the Truth of the matter, then dig it up your own damned self. I really could not care less if you live under one more ideological nit wittery or not.
So you have nothing to support your claim.
LOL....not a shock there.
"African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners. "
Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War Mississippi History Now
I have a question for you- are you a poor reader- or a liar?
The very article you cite says that the pensions were not for black soldiers:
African Americans who had served with the Confederate army were not included – except in Mississippi, which had included African Americans in the state’s pension program from its beginning in 1888. It was not until 1921 that another state extended the eligibility for pensions to African Americans who had served as servants with the Confederate army. Unfortunately, black southerners who applied for Confederate pensions in the 1920s were, for the most part, very old men. Consequently, the number of black pensioners was small compared to the large number of Confederate veterans in the states that had allowed for pensions decades earlier. For example, Mississippi, which was the only state to include African Americans from its program’s beginning in 1888, had 1,739 black pensioners; North Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1927 had 121; South Carolina, which first offered pensions in 1923, had 328; Tennessee, which first offered pensions in 1921, had 195; and Virginia, which first offered pensions in 1924, had 424 black pensioners.
Initially, Mississippi’s pensions for Confederate veterans were limited to soldiers or sailors and their former servants with a disability sustained during the war, such as the loss of a limb, that prevented them from engaging in manual labor, and to women who had been widowed during the war and had not remarried. In 1892, Mississippi expanded the eligibility for pensions to include veterans, their former servants, and unmarried widows “who are now resident in this State, and who are indigent and not able to earn support by their own labor.”
Pension applications from African Americans in Mississippi were forwarded to the state auditor’s office by pension boards in each county. These applications are now on file in the Mississippi Department of Archives and History, where they are intermingled with applications from white soldiers and widows, all of which are filed alphabetically by last name. Black pensioners can be identified by the special application form that servants were required to use. A review of the applications for Confederate pensions in Mississippi – about 36,000 – reveals 1,739 applications from African Americans.
Pension applications
Pension applications for African Americans were different from those used for soldiers or widows. Questions on the applications for servants asked for the applicant’s name, age, the name of the person he had served during the Civil War, and the dates of his service. Questions also asked the unit to which the applicant’s master had been assigned
The pension statutes in Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee, for example, were intended primarily to reward the service of servants or cooks whose masters were assigned to units in the Confederate army. Despite state variations, an overall pattern of service among the black pensioners is clear. On average, 85 percent of the black pensioners served as servants or cooks with the Confederate army.
A central question about these men is whether some of them ever became soldiers. Unfortunately, applications submitted by black pensioners do not address this question. By filling out a servant’s application, these men acknowledged at the onset that they were noncombatants, not soldiers.
Why do you assume that all black slaves were owned by whites?
The South loved and revered the old darkies who formerly were servants in the homes and on the plantations of the white people. They will ever occupy a sacred place in the memory of the people of the Old South and their sons. If people ever deserved to be so revered, it is the old darkies.
The people of the South should, do something material for the benefit of a particular class of old slaves. The servants who faithfully followed their young masters to the front during the War of the States and served as loyally as if they had been enlisted white men, doing their particular duties well and never tiring, should be allowed to draw pensions paid by the white people of the Southern States.
Confederate veteran serial
