Was Trump Wiretapped? Just the facts.

[Soggy in NOLA]

No spin. No smoke and mirrors. No conjecture. Was he wire tapped? If that can't be answered everything else is Conspiracy Theory material of attempting to create links between unrelated incidents.

At this point, it see - the whole wire-tap claim is unsubstantiated and taking on the guise of a conspiracy theory.

From: Analysis | Donald Trump was a conspiracy-theory candidate. Now he’s on the edge of being a conspiracy-theory president.

The problem here, of course, is that what Levin — and Breitbart — use as evidence for these claims are a series of seemingly unconnected events — from FISA court requests to Trump joking about the Russia email hack, to the release of Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails in the fall. The proof that all — or any — of these events are tied together by actual facts as opposed to supposition is not offered.


The idea that Obama’s administration authorized — and was able to get approval for — the wiretapping of the opposition party’s candidate for president is, frankly, far-fetched. And, if someone is making that claim — as Trump is now doing — the burden of proof is on them. If you are going to say there is a grand conspiracy that only you and a handful of others see, you need to offer a step-by-step explanation to the broader public to show why you’re right.


It seems unlikely — given Trump’s past pattern of making baseless claims without proof and then simply insisting he is right and no evidence is needed to prove the point — that any meaningful effort will be made by the Trump administration to connect the dots on this alleged wiretapping conspiracy.​

From the LA Times: Citing no evidence, Trump accuses Obama of tapping his phones during the election

It would be highly unusual for a sitting president to be aware of such [surveillance] requests. By blaming Obama directly, Trump accused the former president of reaching into a federal investigation and signing off on an illegal wiretap, which is a felony.


If federal investigators did monitor Trump’s phones or computers lawfully, a court would have demanded information about potential criminal misconduct or unlawful foreign contacts. Such investigations are closely held and rarely, if ever, shared with the White House.


It is possible Trump has no evidence his phones were tapped and is repeating unfounded reports circulating in conservative media circles. ​

There is a lot of smoke, mirrors and redirection going on here, an attempt I'm sure, to distract from the demands for an investigation into Russian ties with the Trump campaign.

Rather than blowing this up into a full blown conspiracy theory, how about looking at actual evidence?

First question to answer is: is there any hard evidence that Trump Tower was indeed wire tapped? If we can't answer that, the rest is meaningless distraction.

From the Washington Post: Analysis | Trump’s ‘evidence’ for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports

Trump’s ‘evidence’ for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports

Brietbart article on FISA Requests: June & October. Breitbart based it's article entirely on one source: and article written by Louise Mensch, a former Tory member of the British Parliament and an independent journalist for Heat Street. But no one seems to be able to independently confirm the claim.

The Washington Post for months has sought to confirm this report of a FISA warrant related to the Trump campaign but has been unable to do so. Presumably other U.S. news organizations have tried to do so as well. So one has to take this claim with a huge dose of skepticism. Indeed, the New York Times reported before the election that the FBI “ultimately concluded that there could be an innocuous explanation, like a marketing email or spam, for the computer contacts” with the Russian banks.​

According to the WP article:

The White House provided three other sources. Two, a National Review article and a Fox News interview, are simply derivative of the Heat Street article, with no independent confirmation. The third is a New York Times report that intelligence agencies “are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions” as part of a probe of possible links between Russian officials and Trump campaign aides. (We recall the president has previously deemed Times reporting on this matter as “fake news.”)​

The article goes on to conclude:

Only two articles, both with British roots, have reported that a FISA court order was granted in October to examine possible activity between two Russian banks and a computer server in the Trump Tower. This claim has not been confirmed by a U.S. news organizations. Moreover, neither article says President Obama requested the order or that it resulted in the tapping of Trump’s phone lines.​

And lastly:

Moreover, the articles do not support the White House’s claim that these were “potentially politically motivated investigations” led by President Obama. The articles all suggest the FISA requests — if they happened — were done by the intelligence agencies and the FBI.​

So, before we have this huge political uproar, and immediate comparisons to Watergate, lets' get at the facts first. Can anyone answer these questions?

1. Was Trump wiretapped? If yes - what evidence? Were bugs found in Trump Tower?

2. Were FISA requests issued? If yes - can the claims be confirmed by more then one source and for what specifically were they for?

Until those are answered - there's nothing but smoke.

The same could be said for all these people saying that Trump is an Agent of Putin, they have produced no evidence, yet the MSM has no problem accusing Trump of this 24/7.

How about actual concrete evidence is publicly presented to show that Trump is an Agent of Putin?

Now that the table is turned on Obama and The Obama Administration the media whores are outraged at the suggestion that Obama had Trump Tower wiretapped during an Election.

Not one of these media whores has written or stated that if Obama did have Trump Tower wiretapped that would be a very disturbing development and would be on par with the wiretapping of The Watergate Building.

The problem is the cheerleading and hysterically anti-Trump media think that Obama can do no wrong, and if it is shown that Obama did have Trump Tower wiretapped, they will spin it so they can attempt to help him all they can.

Could Obama who ordered American citizens to be Droned also order the illegal wiretapping for political purposes of Trump Tower? Yes many think he could.

I agree but I'm not putting money on Obama.

My money is on the Obama holdovers. Those holdovers have been leaking from the WH.

Its not a leap to say they could have loads to do with wire tapping Trump Tower.

good idea, you shouldnt put money on Obama.. but you can if youre a complete moron and are clueless how, and who facilitates wiretaps.

LMAO Nope. The complete moron and clueless one is you.

Leaks in the WH? Wire tapping in Trump Tower??

Sounds pretty credible to me but then I'm not a biased hack like you are.

Obama holdovers? Rhodes?? Could very well be.

Carry on oh clueless one.

So far, no evidence has been provided to support the wire tapping claim. None. It's untethered from reality.

Granted. However, Obama has indeed done this in the past... just say'n.

Oh, and there's zero evidence the Russians hacked the election as the left continually yammers on and on about.

 

[Coyote]

So far, no evidence has been provided to support the wire tapping claim. None. It's untethered from reality.

Sounds much like that Russian rigging election thingy

Depends on what "Russian rigging" thingy you mean...

Did the Russians hack the voting machines? Hell no.
Did Trump actively collude with Russians to throw the election? No evidence thus far, unlikely
Did the Russians attempt to interfere in our election to favor Trump? Plenty of evidence thus far, likely (let's see what the investigation shows).

There is about the same amount of evidence the Russians attempted to interfere as there is Obama ordered the wiretap.

It's all political theatre and narratives and it's past old

All the US Intelligence agencies are in agreement that the Russians attempted to interfere. They've provided as much evidence as can be provided without declassifying. Not only US Intelligence, but that of other countries in Europe who have been targeted by the Russians.

Compare that to nothing whatsoever supporting Trumps claim.

I'm not going to buy that there is some sort of massive conspiracy at work cooping the Intelligence community, the past adminstration, judiciary and the media attempting to topple Trump. That's a the product of a delusional and paranoid mind.

Talking about the "evidence" and providing the same is not the same thing.

Everyone is targeted by Russians, and mainly by us. It's what they do. It's what we do. Complaining about it, as it if happened first time is ridiculous.

Again, getting DNC "hacked" or rather leaked, and getting Podesta's emails doesn't mean that election was hacked. It just means that Dems are buthurt for losing and they need someone to blame.

Not everyone has the Russians attempting to interfere in their elections - refusing to take it seriously is ludicrous. It's a serious issue and you're just lobbing it off as "butthurt".

That's unbelievable.

 

[koshergrl]

It's not like Obammy hasn't done it before:

"WikiLeaks released the following list on February 23rd (see link here) of Obama Administration wire taps:

* The US National Security Agency bugged a private climate change strategy meeting; between UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin;
* Obama bugged Chief of Staff of UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) for long term interception targetting his Swiss phone;
* Obama singled out the Director of the Rules Division of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), Johann Human, and targetted his Swiss phone for long term interception;
* Obama stole sensitive Italian diplomatic cables detailing how Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to help patch up his relationship with US President Barack Obama, who was refusing to talk to Netanyahu;
* Obama intercepted top EU and Japanese trade ministers discussing their secret strategy and red lines to stop the US “extort[ing]” them at the WTO Doha arounds (the talks subsequently collapsed);
* Obama explicitly targeted five other top EU economic officials for long term interception, including their French, Austrian and Belgium phone numbers;
* Obama explicitly targetted the phones of Italy’s ambassador to NATO and other top Italian officials for long term interception; and
* Obama intercepted details of a critical private meeting between then French president Nicolas Sarkozy, Merkel and Berluscon, where the latter was told the Italian banking system was ready to “pop like a cork”."

In addition to the above list we also know now that Obama wire tapped various individuals in the US media that were reporting information not flattering to the Obama Administration. It is widely known that Obama’s Justice Department targeted journalists with wiretaps in 2013:

* In 2013 the liberal Washington Post expressed outrage after the revelation that the Justice Department had investigated the newsgathering activities of a Fox News reporter as a potential crime in a probe of classified leaks. The reporter, Fox News’ James Rosen and his family, were part of an investigation into government officials anonymously leaking information to journalists. Rosen was not charged but his movements and actions were tracked.
* Also in 2013, members of the Associated Press were also a target of the surveillance. The ultra liberal New Yorker even noted that “In moderate and liberal circles, at least, the phone-records scandal, partly because it involves the dear old A.P. and partly because it raises anew the specter of Big Brother, may well present the most serious threat to Obama’s reputation.”
* Reporter Sharyl Attkisson said in 2014 that her personal computer and CBS laptop were hacked after she began filing stories about Benghazi that were unflattering to the Obama administration. A source who checked her laptop said the hacker used spyware “proprietary to a government agency,” according to an article in the New York Post.

Update – WikiLeaks tweeted overnight that the Obama Administration spied on their journalists as well"

Here’s the List: More Than a Dozen Proven Victims of Obama’s Many Wiretaps

 

[easyt65]

http://nypost.com/2017/03/05/why-trump-might-suspect-obama-bugged-trump-tower/

"But let’s face it: From the day Trump won election, his foes have waged a by-any-means-necessary campaign to overturn the results.

Officials (likely Obama-era holdovers) have broken the law and leaked what they hoped would be damaging info. Groups tied to Obama have stirred up angry protests against Trump and other Republicans.

The New York Times reported Obama’s staff purposely spread information throughout the administration that could hurt Trump, though they said the goal was to make sure the info wasn’t buried.

Critics say Trump’s wiretap claim is baseless, but what is truly lacking in solid evidence is the claim that there was some sort of collusion between Trump or his aides and Russian officials to hijack the election. Yet that’s all Trump’s foes (and much of the press) want to talk about.

Remember, too: Team Obama has a record of abusing power for political gain, as when the IRS targeted conservative groups."

Thank you, Rambunctious!

 

[Coyote]

Golly bejesus! 340 posts and still no facts. Y'all liberians sho do say a lot of nothin!

That's what I said in the OP. No facts supporting Trumps claims of being wiretapped.

Glad you noticed that as well.

 

[miketx]

Golly bejesus! 340 posts and still no facts. Y'all liberians sho do say a lot of nothin!

That's what I said in the OP. No facts supporting Trumps claims of being wiretapped.

Glad you noticed that as well.

No deflector, I'm saying that YOU and your gaggle of rabid libs have produced no facts about anything, like you always do.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Golly bejesus! 340 posts and still no facts. Y'all liberians sho do say a lot of nothin!

That's what I said in the OP. No facts supporting Trumps claims of being wiretapped.

Glad you noticed that as well.

Nor any evidence of Russia involvement of election tampering....well other than "intel" agencies claim there was.

Take that into a court of law and see how fast you get tossed out

 

[Coyote]

It's not like Obammy hasn't done it before:

"WikiLeaks released the following list on February 23rd (see link here) of Obama Administration wire taps:

* The US National Security Agency bugged a private climate change strategy meeting; between UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin;
* Obama bugged Chief of Staff of UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) for long term interception targetting his Swiss phone;
* Obama singled out the Director of the Rules Division of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), Johann Human, and targetted his Swiss phone for long term interception;
* Obama stole sensitive Italian diplomatic cables detailing how Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to help patch up his relationship with US President Barack Obama, who was refusing to talk to Netanyahu;
* Obama intercepted top EU and Japanese trade ministers discussing their secret strategy and red lines to stop the US “extort[ing]” them at the WTO Doha arounds (the talks subsequently collapsed);
* Obama explicitly targeted five other top EU economic officials for long term interception, including their French, Austrian and Belgium phone numbers;
* Obama explicitly targetted the phones of Italy’s ambassador to NATO and other top Italian officials for long term interception; and
* Obama intercepted details of a critical private meeting between then French president Nicolas Sarkozy, Merkel and Berluscon, where the latter was told the Italian banking system was ready to “pop like a cork”."

In addition to the above list we also know now that Obama wire tapped various individuals in the US media that were reporting information not flattering to the Obama Administration. It is widely known that Obama’s Justice Department targeted journalists with wiretaps in 2013:

* In 2013 the liberal Washington Post expressed outrage after the revelation that the Justice Department had investigated the newsgathering activities of a Fox News reporter as a potential crime in a probe of classified leaks. The reporter, Fox News’ James Rosen and his family, were part of an investigation into government officials anonymously leaking information to journalists. Rosen was not charged but his movements and actions were tracked.
* Also in 2013, members of the Associated Press were also a target of the surveillance. The ultra liberal New Yorker even noted that “In moderate and liberal circles, at least, the phone-records scandal, partly because it involves the dear old A.P. and partly because it raises anew the specter of Big Brother, may well present the most serious threat to Obama’s reputation.”
* Reporter Sharyl Attkisson said in 2014 that her personal computer and CBS laptop were hacked after she began filing stories about Benghazi that were unflattering to the Obama administration. A source who checked her laptop said the hacker used spyware “proprietary to a government agency,” according to an article in the New York Post.

Update – WikiLeaks tweeted overnight that the Obama Administration spied on their journalists as well"

Here’s the List: More Than a Dozen Proven Victims of Obama’s Many Wiretaps

Oh for God's sakes...really stretching it aren't you? NSA, DHS etc conducting normal spying are analogous to claiming Obama ordered the illegal wire tapping of a political rival? That's all you can come up with?

 

[Siete]

...

Depends on what "Russian rigging" thingy you mean...

Did the Russians hack the voting machines? Hell no.
Did Trump actively collude with Russians to throw the election? No evidence thus far, unlikely
Did the Russians attempt to interfere in our election to favor Trump? Plenty of evidence thus far, likely (let's see what the investigation shows).

Only question is why would they favor Trump is they could get everything they wanted by just paying off Hillary?

Maybe because they can't "pay off Hillary" - that's solely your opinion of her there. She's always been a hardliner towards Moscow, they know that - they dealt with her while she was SoS. Trump is an unknown politically, but already has friendly ties to them, and has indicated a desire to loosen sanctions. There is no way Clinton would.

Hillary hardliner with Moscow? Yeah, in words only, until they offer cash...

If she's as corrupt as you say - show me the indictments.

There are none (yet). All investigations were stonewalled by previous admin, and that will, I hope, change pretty soon.

GOOD ONE ! order an investigation then stonewall the findings..


how damn dumb are you anyway?

 

[Coyote]

If Trump was wire tapped:

Where are the taps?

Where are the court orders granting permission to tap Trump Tower?

Trump has access to ALL that information as President - why hasn't he presented it?

 

[koshergrl]

It's not like Obammy hasn't done it before:

"WikiLeaks released the following list on February 23rd (see link here) of Obama Administration wire taps:

* The US National Security Agency bugged a private climate change strategy meeting; between UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin;
* Obama bugged Chief of Staff of UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) for long term interception targetting his Swiss phone;
* Obama singled out the Director of the Rules Division of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), Johann Human, and targetted his Swiss phone for long term interception;
* Obama stole sensitive Italian diplomatic cables detailing how Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to help patch up his relationship with US President Barack Obama, who was refusing to talk to Netanyahu;
* Obama intercepted top EU and Japanese trade ministers discussing their secret strategy and red lines to stop the US “extort[ing]” them at the WTO Doha arounds (the talks subsequently collapsed);
* Obama explicitly targeted five other top EU economic officials for long term interception, including their French, Austrian and Belgium phone numbers;
* Obama explicitly targetted the phones of Italy’s ambassador to NATO and other top Italian officials for long term interception; and
* Obama intercepted details of a critical private meeting between then French president Nicolas Sarkozy, Merkel and Berluscon, where the latter was told the Italian banking system was ready to “pop like a cork”."

In addition to the above list we also know now that Obama wire tapped various individuals in the US media that were reporting information not flattering to the Obama Administration. It is widely known that Obama’s Justice Department targeted journalists with wiretaps in 2013:

* In 2013 the liberal Washington Post expressed outrage after the revelation that the Justice Department had investigated the newsgathering activities of a Fox News reporter as a potential crime in a probe of classified leaks. The reporter, Fox News’ James Rosen and his family, were part of an investigation into government officials anonymously leaking information to journalists. Rosen was not charged but his movements and actions were tracked.
* Also in 2013, members of the Associated Press were also a target of the surveillance. The ultra liberal New Yorker even noted that “In moderate and liberal circles, at least, the phone-records scandal, partly because it involves the dear old A.P. and partly because it raises anew the specter of Big Brother, may well present the most serious threat to Obama’s reputation.”
* Reporter Sharyl Attkisson said in 2014 that her personal computer and CBS laptop were hacked after she began filing stories about Benghazi that were unflattering to the Obama administration. A source who checked her laptop said the hacker used spyware “proprietary to a government agency,” according to an article in the New York Post.

Update – WikiLeaks tweeted overnight that the Obama Administration spied on their journalists as well"

Here’s the List: More Than a Dozen Proven Victims of Obama’s Many Wiretaps

Oh for God's sakes...really stretching it aren't you? NSA, DHS etc conducting normal spying are analogous to claiming Obama ordered the illegal wire tapping of a political rival? That's all you can come up with?

"Normal spying"?

Honey, "spying" on American citizens isn't normal, and Nixon went down for it.

You remember Nixon. You guys have screeched about him for half a century now. Suddenly, his behavior is "normal"?

Bullshit.

 

[koshergrl]

It makes me sick to see how comfortable the left is with the criminality of their gods.

 

[easyt65]

Not everyone has the Russians attempting to interfere in their elections - refusing to take it seriously is ludicrous. It's a serious issue and you're just lobbing it off as "butthurt". That's unbelievable.

There is no reason to take seriously that the Russians tried to 'hack the election' - there is no evidence to support the claim.

The whole narrative that the Russians 'hacked the election' was an extremely desperate one generated by the Democrats who wanted to distract people from the fact that their leaked e-mails exposed how racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic their comments / jokes were when they thought no one could see them.

There is evidence that Obama and the DHS attempted numerous times to hack the election systems of Indiana and Georgia at a time Obama was trying to seize control of ALL of the states' election systems.

Since there is no evidence the Russians tried to hack the election AND there is no evidence to support the claim Trump and the Russians colluded to do so that means the 'McCarthyistic' accusations by Democrats against Trump and his team do not deserve to be taken seriously.

If anything, the false claims that Trump was colluding was an excuse to tap Trump's phones before the election, just as Obama created false accusations against James Rosin as an excuse to hack into his computers and see what he was writing about the Obama administration.

 

[Siete]

seemed to be popular with RW's pointing a nose at Obama, so lets point a nose !

The Pinocchio Test
While the Trump White House cited five news reports to justify its request for a congressional investigation, only two actually are relevant.

It’s certainly ironic that the Trump White House — which has heavily criticized articles relying on anonymous sources — now relies on articles based on anonymous sources that cite information that has not been confirmed by any U.S. news organization. It would be amusing if it were not so sad.

After all, Clapper, who presumably would be aware of a FISA court order, has issued an on-the-record denial.

Even if these media reports are accepted as accurate, neither back up Trump’s claims that Obama ordered the tapping of his phone calls. Moreover, they also do not back up the administration’s revised claim of politically motivated investigations.

We’re still waiting for the evidence. In the meantime, Trump earns Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios

redeaux ^^^^

 

[koshergrl]

Not everyone has the Russians attempting to interfere in their elections - refusing to take it seriously is ludicrous. It's a serious issue and you're just lobbing it off as "butthurt". That's unbelievable.

There is no reason to take seriously that the Russians tried to 'hack the election' - there is no evidence to support the claim.

There is evidence that Obama and the DHS attempted numerous times to hack the election systems of Indiana and Georgia at a time Obama was trying to seize control of ALL of the states' election systems.

Since there is no evidence the Russians tried to hack the election AND there is no evidence to support the claim Trump and the Russians colluded to do so that means the 'McCarthyistic' accusations by Democrats against Trump and his team do not deserve to be taken seriously.

If anything, the false claims that Trump was colluding was an excuse to tap Trump's phones before the election, just as Obama created false accusations against James Rosin as an excuse to hack into his computers and see what he was writing about the Obama administration.

After each and every major event advancing Donald Trump’s presidency, there is another leak to the media about Russia from within the intelligence community. In the run up to the Electoral College; in the run up to the inauguration; and in the aftermath of President Trump’s speech to Congress — each time he has positive headlines someone leaks information about Russia to the press.
The Unbelievable Timeline of Leaks Relating to Donald Trump and Russia | The Resurgent

 

[Rambunctious]

I'm going to bet whatever the ex president is doing undercover is going to stop. If the leaks stop we will know he got spooked on Saturday!

 

[easyt65]

After each and every major event advancing Donald Trump’s presidency, there is another leak to the media about Russia from within the intelligence community.

Congratulations, you win! You have just pointed out the 'constant' here.

Damaging Liberal E-mails? False Russian Hacking Narrative

Awesome State of the union Speech both liberal and Conservative Media praises? Russian BS / Illegal leak.

Only a child could not see what's going on.
Only a snowflake could deny it with a straight face.

 

[easyt65]

I'm going to bet whatever the ex president is doing undercover is going to stop. If the leaks stop we will know he got spooked on Saturday!

I don't think it will stop until someone - a leaker - gets BURNED!

 

[koshergrl]

After each and every major event advancing Donald Trump’s presidency, there is another leak to the media about Russia from within the intelligence community.

Congratulations, you win! You have just pointed out the 'constant' here.

Damaging Liberal E-mails? False Russian Hacking Narrative

Awesome State of the union Speech both liberal and Conservative Media praises? Russian BS / Illegal leak.

Only a child could not see what's going on.
Only a snowflake could deny it with a straight face.

They've been bred and trained to lie and obfuscate. They take it very seriously.

 

[easyt65]

seemed to be popular with RW's pointing a nose at Obama, so lets point a nose !

The Pinocchio Test
While the Trump White House cited five news reports to justify its request for a congressional investigation, only two actually are relevant.

It’s certainly ironic that the Trump White House — which has heavily criticized articles relying on anonymous sources — now relies on articles based on anonymous sources that cite information that has not been confirmed by any U.S. news organization. It would be amusing if it were not so sad.

After all, Clapper, who presumably would be aware of a FISA court order, has issued an on-the-record denial.

Even if these media reports are accepted as accurate, neither back up Trump’s claims that Obama ordered the tapping of his phone calls. Moreover, they also do not back up the administration’s revised claim of politically motivated investigations.

We’re still waiting for the evidence. In the meantime, Trump earns Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios

redeaux ^^^^

Clapper? The guy who committed Perjury about NOT spying on those millions of Americans who were being spied on...but was allowed to 'amend' his statement?!