We Finally Know the Case Against Trump, and It Is Strong

[WorldWatcher]

Which crime? How was Trump trying to conceal it?

Cohen's.

Allegedly through the falsification of business records.

WW

 

[Chillicothe]

Not one charge in the indictment attempts to charge him with a federal crime.

That is true.
Nor....at this point ....does it need to.
For now, the DA's office can keep their cards close to the vest

Here, this may help some of the lurkers on this thread. It comes from Lawfare:

"The statute requires the falsification of a business record with intent to defraud, and it requires that the falsification be part of an attempt to commit another crime, to aid another crime, or to conceal another crime. For the ease of explanation, call the referenced crime the criminal “predicate.”

The indictment identifies thirty-four falsified business records, but it didn’t indicate what the criminal predicates were, because New York law doesn’t require that it do so. But some clues about the predicates can be found in the 13-page Statement of Facts that accompanied the indictment, as well as from Bragg’s comments in a press conference following the arraignment.

The statement creates certain inferences about the predicates. Generally speaking, the statement describes an “unlawful scheme” designed to “influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about [Trump] to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects.”

In short, the DA alleges what the popular press calls a catch-and-kill scheme, which itself consists of more specific unlawful activity. The scheme itself was illegal, says the indictment and accompanying statement, as was much of the activity used to effectuate it. Some combination of the activity used to effectuate the scheme and the scheme itself predicates each of the thirty-four charges under § 175.10.

For those with sufficient interest they can read the whole enchilada at Lawfare.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Cohen's.

Allegedly through the falsification of business records.

WW

How does anything Trump did hide any of Cohen's crimes?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is true.
Nor....at this point ....does it need to.
For now, the DA's office can keep their cards close to the vest

Here, this may help some of the lurkers on this thread. It comes from Lawfare:

"The statute requires the falsification of a business record with intent to defraud, and it requires that the falsification be part of an attempt to commit another crime, to aid another crime, or to conceal another crime. For the ease of explanation, call the referenced crime the criminal “predicate.”

The indictment identifies thirty-four falsified business records, but it didn’t indicate what the criminal predicates were, because New York law doesn’t require that it do so. But some clues about the predicates can be found in the 13-page Statement of Facts that accompanied the indictment, as well as from Bragg’s comments in a press conference following the arraignment.

The statement creates certain inferences about the predicates. Generally speaking, the statement describes an “unlawful scheme” designed to “influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about [Trump] to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects.”

In short, the DA alleges what the popular press calls a catch-and-kill scheme, which itself consists of more specific unlawful activity. The scheme itself was illegal, says the indictment and accompanying statement, as was much of the activity used to effectuate it. Some combination of the activity used to effectuate the scheme and the scheme itself predicates each of the thirty-four charges under § 175.10.

For those with sufficient interest they can read the whole enchilada at Lawfare.

Killing a negative story isn't a crime.

 

[Chillicothe]

Killing a negative story isn't a crime.

So?
Are other aspects related to that 'killing'.... a crime?
The New York DA's office will explain that to us in due time.
I am patient.
It is my last remaining virtue.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So?
Are other aspects related to that 'killing'.... a crime?
The New York DA's office will explain that to us in due time.
I am patient.
It is my last remaining virtue.

Are other aspects related to that 'killing'.... a crime?

Like what other aspects?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Cohen served jail time for a felony conviction....IDIOT

Not only for his "campaign finance law" violation which was not even a crime. He was convicted of tax evasion for the most part and plead guilty to all charges. That mens he admitted to committing a crime that was not a crime.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

He's no slouch.
IMO, others plus family will be going down with Trump.
You know his kids are in on this and they are part of Trump Org. Watch him throw them under the bus and vice versa.

If it a business records violation, then individuals cannot be prosecuted, dumbass!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

nonsense.

McConnell was charged with corruption over taking a shit load of gifts.

McConnell was charged with what and when, dumbass?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

"getting off" because one MAGArat refused to vote guilty?

Hard to win elections after that

What if it was the other way around, 11 against, and one for conviction? That is how it works dumbass!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It was decision of military commanders to not shoot it down over land, because they couldnt ensure it wouldnt damage something on the way down.

Why not use a fighter to attack with guns and punch holes in the balloon until it came down slowly?

 

[okfine]

If it a business records violation, then individuals cannot be prosecuted, dumbass!

Bragg was on the case that took down the Trump Foundation. Trump and his kids fear the guy.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

And this is what trials are for. Right, Dekster? Like you say, 'We shall see'. I'm' curious, myself.
Yes, there's always a potential for a hung jury. But, alas, Trump Org was indicted and CFO Weisselberg sits in Rikers.

It's possible that a unanimous verdict, one way or the other, is achievable.

Cheers,
Rumpole

Yeah, wow! He sentence ends in 3 f-ing days!

 

[Flopper]

The alleged business record entries were made with the intent to aid in and to conceal another crime

Paying off a bimbo......still not a crime.

The business records entries were made in early 2017 and the limitations for that is 2 years. Trump was a NY resident for that two years.

.

If falsification of business records is done with intend to cover up another crime, it is a felony and that is the charge against Trump, 34 felony counts. The New the York statue of limitations is 5yrs for a felony measured between the date of the crime and the date of indictment plus days out of state.

Prior to any charges being made, the DA is required by law to determine if the crime is within the statue of limitations, before asking for an indictment. If is then he can not ask the Grand Jury for an indictment. Thus the trial judge will assume that the case is not within thoe limitations. It will be up to Trump's lawyers to present evidence that it is not. If the defense is going to make such a claim, the court will expect it in the first hearing before the trial or any other rulings.

Since Brag is an experience prosecuting attorney in New York with 31 cases of falsifying business records as a felonies in the last year and 20 years legal experience in New York, I would expect, like all prosecuting attorneys, he is quite aware of the ticking clock of the statue of limitation. So it seems very unlikely that he has miscalculated.

 

[Flopper]

Bragg was on the case that took down the Trump Foundation. Trump and his kids fear the guy.

Trump is the sole or principal owner of the Trump Organization which makes him responsible. That would not necessarily be the case with a large corporation with many owners.

 

[Flopper]

Correct. Agreee 100%.

However when the method payment is made in an illegal manner, that method becomes crime in it's own right. Trump is being charged with "paying off a bimbo", Trump is being charged with falsification of records in the money laundering scheme to "pay the bimbo".

Two very different things.

WW

Most people are assuming that the underlying crime is hush money payments made by Cohen. The hush money payments were a violation of election law, of which Cohen was convicted. The fact that Trump instigate the payments and financed the payments using Cohen as his agent is a criminal conspiracy. I think that this is going be the underlying crime that makes falsifying the records a felony. However, there may be more than that. Prosecutors rarely show all their cards prior to trial. Bragg could ad a conspiracy charge not just as an underlying crime but an actually new charge.

Criminal conspiracy in New York is a very serious crime with sentences up to 25 years and if the crime is actually carried out additional charges can be levied.

If Trump is found guilty, I would not be placing any big bets that he will walk.

 

[Flopper]

How does anything Trump did hide any of Cohen's crimes?

Trump attempted to hide his payments to Cohen to cover the hush money by altering his business records.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If falsification of business records is done with intend to cover up another crime, it is a felony and that is the charge against Trump, 34 felony counts.

Sounds serious!

What is the other crime?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Trump attempted to hide his payments to Cohen to cover the hush money by altering his business records.

Why were Trump's payments to Cohen a crime?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Most people are assuming that the underlying crime is hush money payments made by Cohen. The hush money payments were a violation of election law, of which Cohen was convicted. The fact that Trump instigate the payments and financed the payments using Cohen as his agent is a criminal conspiracy. I think that this is going be the underlying crime that makes falsifying the records a felony. However, there may be more than that. Prosecutors rarely show all their cards prior to trial. Bragg could ad a conspiracy charge not just as an underlying crime but an actually new charge.

Criminal conspiracy in New York is a very serious crime with sentences up to 25 years and if the crime is actually carried out additional charges can be levied.

If Trump is found guilty, I would not be placing any big bets that he will walk.

The hush money payments were a violation of election law, of which Cohen was convicted.

Which election law says you can't make hush payments?

The fact that Trump instigate the payments and financed the payments using Cohen as his agent is a criminal conspiracy.

Trump told Cohen to make the election payments on Trump's behalf?