wealth is unethical. everyone should make the same universal income

[HereWeGoAgain]

Then you are gonna hafta get employers to pay a genuine living wage.

That will make the problem worse, not fix it.

The problem is neither an excess of liberty nor a deficiency of government, except that government has been derelict in its constitutional duties to regulate immigration, which has a DIRECT effect on the job market and economy as a whole.

See? Libertarians DO believe in government. Its purpose should be to promote liberty and prosperity of its citizens (not citizens of Mexico or elsewhere).

No, the problem is wges haven't kept pace with the cost of living.

If you take out cell phones, cable tv, manicures, and vacations the cost of living hasn't gone up that much.

Salaries have not kept pace with rising housing costs, food, energy or education

Get rid of your cell phone,cable and all the other trappings of someone who actually applies themselves and you'll get by.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Buzzword frequently used by communists.

Don't sit there and pretend that the worker is not also exploiting the risk the employer undertook to make the job available.

The solution is not less freedom or more government. The solution is government acting appropriately to protect its citizens from the harm caused by illegal workers driving the job market into the tank.

 

[jc456]

everyone deserves access to affordable housing, free health care, and advanced education

Which will all last as long as it takes to use up other people's money (against their wills, of course).

they don't get it. they never will. stupid can't be overcome.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Ensuring people have access to affordable housing, healthcare and food does not constitute universal income

Define access, specifically.

1) Affordable housing...define access.
2) Healthcare...
3) Food....

Glad you ask.....
Let’s start with housing, healthcare and food that working Americans can afford without government assistance

If our “job creators” would pay a living age, we wouldn’t need the government to subsidize them

Jesus Christ you people are stupid!!!
When wages go up artificially so will the cost of the product totally negating the wage increase.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Explain the baby steps between universal healthcare and everyone making the same wage

Isn't that the communist goal.

It's a ridiculous and unsustainable goal.

Why incur the expense and effort to go to 7-8 years of higher education to take on a much harder job when one can make the same money mopping floors. Nobody will be a doctor or a lawyer or a physicist or genetic engineer or _______ .

Wages MUST be congruent to the type of job, the skill or knowledge required for the job, and the number of potential workers capable of doing said job. It MUST work that way or jack shit will get done and society will fail. See every failed communist state (which is all of them).

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Ensuring people have access to affordable housing, healthcare and food does not constitute universal income

Define access, specifically.

1) Affordable housing...define access.
2) Healthcare...
3) Food....

Glad you ask.....
Let’s start with housing, healthcare and food that working Americans can afford without government assistance

If our “job creators” would pay a living age, we wouldn’t need the government to subsidize them

Define a living wage.
Is everyone now working not living?

If they cancel cable, cell phone, and manicure appointments they won't need government assistance.

Same old bullshit about the poor has it too good

Show me where a family struggling to survive in Appalachia has cable TV, cell phones and manicures

Now you care about the people who live in Appalachia? LOL
They're Trump voters.

They think they can tug on our heartstrings using Appalachia.
Sorry libs,not going to work.
I'd tell em the same thing I tell you,get a better job.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I think this thread emphasizes the difference in how mainstream conservatives and mainstream liberals view poverty in this nation.
Speaking for myself, poverty in America is a symptom and not a disease.
And I firmly believe that the largest cause (the real disease) of poverty in America is self inflicted. Primarily a result of a long term poor decisions coupled with laziness. To get out of poverty, one must change what they are doing. You can't keep doing all of the things that is causing your condition and expect someone else to fix it all for you. Enter liberals. This is how they see poverty. Something tangible that can be fixed by throwing money at it. That is short sided, and despite catastrophic results of liberal social policies of the 60's and 70's that dramatically GREW the problem rather than fix it....they still want to hold on to the ridiculous theory

Classic blame the victim for their poverty

Many poor people work very hard. Menial jobs that used to support a family but no longer do. Manufacturing jobs used to be a stepping stone out of poverty......they are mostly gone. Few low skilled jobs offer benefits
The ladder to success is missing too many rungs

Victim. Of what?
Do you seriously believe there is no significant correlation between poverty and poor life choices??
Who made those choices?
You bet manufacturing is gone. You know what RW,...if HALF, just half of liberals in America would refuse to buy products made in China, Vietnam...refuse to buy appliances that moved to Mexico...and instead gave two seconds of effort to choose American made whenever possible - manufacturing would be back. But that isn't going to happen.
Bringing good jobs back to America REQUIRES a demand for those products. Demand from liberals also.
But gee....truth is...conservatives do more to find American made products than liberals.
And not to say conservatives on average try and buy American...not even close...but of the few that do, I bet my house most are conservative.

Menial jobs used to pay a wage you could support a family on. They no longer do.
It is the capitalists who shipped jobs over seas, it is the capitalists who just received a 50 percent tax cut and have not increased wages, it is the capitalists who have held down wages for over a decade

It is the poor who have suffered

No they didnt.
I had roommates when I was 18 in order to afford an apartment.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Glad you ask.....
Let’s start with housing, healthcare and food that working Americans can afford without government assistance

If our “job creators” would pay a living age, we wouldn’t need the government to subsidize them

If our useless government would control who is allowed to enter and work here, the unskilled labor market would improve, forcing employers to compete for workers, rather than the other way around.

Bullshit

Capitalists are exploiting the low skilled labor market whether it is immigrant or native born.

Less low skilled labor equals higher wages.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'm not saying everyone gets a McMansion, goes to Harvard, and eats surf and turf every night.

I'm saying everyone with a job should be able to afford a cheap apartment, enough to eat, and enough to take care of themselves.

It they manage their money wisely, they can.
Employers should not be held responsible for employees dumb financial decisions.

Do you not realize that if an employer pays so little that the employee needs welfare to survive you are subsidizing the employer with government funds?

If you're an adult working a min wage job you failed at life.

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Who should be 16 and living at home with his parents.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Buzzword frequently used by communists.

Don't sit there and pretend that the worker is not also exploiting the risk the employer undertook to make the job available.

The solution is not less freedom or more government. The solution is government acting appropriately to protect its citizens from the harm caused by illegal workers driving the job market into the tank.

Damn! You're on a roll today!

 

[rightwinger]

I'm not saying everyone gets a McMansion, goes to Harvard, and eats surf and turf every night.

I'm saying everyone with a job should be able to afford a cheap apartment, enough to eat, and enough to take care of themselves.

It they manage their money wisely, they can.
Employers should not be held responsible for employees dumb financial decisions.

Do you not realize that if an employer pays so little that the employee needs welfare to survive you are subsidizing the employer with government funds?

If you're an adult working a min wage job you failed at life.

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Who in turn should move on.
If you dont work to better your situation you have no one to blame but yourself.

That’s the point

That ladder to success is no longer there. Low skilled labor used to move towards manufacturing or maybe a union job where they could support a family. Those jobs have disappeared.

Yea you can enter a minimum wage job and maybe move up to ten bucks an hour. But the track to twenty dollar an hour jobs is not there

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It they manage their money wisely, they can.
Employers should not be held responsible for employees dumb financial decisions.

Do you not realize that if an employer pays so little that the employee needs welfare to survive you are subsidizing the employer with government funds?

If you're an adult working a min wage job you failed at life.

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Who in turn should move on.
If you dont work to better your situation you have no one to blame but yourself.

That’s the point

That ladder to success is no longer there. Low skilled labor used to move towards manufacturing or maybe a union job where they could support a family. Those jobs have disappeared.

Yea you can enter a minimum wage job and maybe move up to ten bucks an hour. But the track to twenty dollar an hour jobs is not there

Sure it is.
Get a job as an electricians apprentice,plumber apprentice,machinist apprentice........etc.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It they manage their money wisely, they can.
Employers should not be held responsible for employees dumb financial decisions.

Do you not realize that if an employer pays so little that the employee needs welfare to survive you are subsidizing the employer with government funds?

If you're an adult working a min wage job you failed at life.

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Who in turn should move on.
If you dont work to better your situation you have no one to blame but yourself.

That’s the point

That ladder to success is no longer there. Low skilled labor used to move towards manufacturing or maybe a union job where they could support a family. Those jobs have disappeared.

Yea you can enter a minimum wage job and maybe move up to ten bucks an hour. But the track to twenty dollar an hour jobs is not there

Yep yep....you keep saying that. But won't take ownership of the American consumer...which absolutely includes liberals.
It is the American consumer that keeps lining up with full carts to buy the products manufactured overseas.
You wanna make a difference, then join the rest of us who take two seconds to see if there are American alternatives.
But you won't do that. And neither will all of the people bitching and moaning about all the lost jobs.
The products would sit on the shelves and ROT if people refused to buy them!

 

[rightwinger]

I'm not saying everyone gets a McMansion, goes to Harvard, and eats surf and turf every night.

I'm saying everyone with a job should be able to afford a cheap apartment, enough to eat, and enough to take care of themselves.

It they manage their money wisely, they can.
Employers should not be held responsible for employees dumb financial decisions.

Do you not realize that if an employer pays so little that the employee needs welfare to survive you are subsidizing the employer with government funds?

If you're an adult working a min wage job you failed at life.

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Who should be 16 and living at home with his parents.

What about that 16 year old?

When I was 16, I made $2.10 an hour. I could work minimum wage and pay all my college tuition. I could afford a brand new car by working for six months. I could buy eight gallons of gas for that car on an hours pay

That starter wage doesn’t pay for anything now

 

[rightwinger]

Do you not realize that if an employer pays so little that the employee needs welfare to survive you are subsidizing the employer with government funds?

If you're an adult working a min wage job you failed at life.

Doesn’t excuse their exploitation while they hold low wage jobs. When that person moves on, they will replace him with another low wage worker

Who in turn should move on.
If you dont work to better your situation you have no one to blame but yourself.

That’s the point

That ladder to success is no longer there. Low skilled labor used to move towards manufacturing or maybe a union job where they could support a family. Those jobs have disappeared.

Yea you can enter a minimum wage job and maybe move up to ten bucks an hour. But the track to twenty dollar an hour jobs is not there

Yep yep....you keep saying that. But won't take ownership of the American consumer...which absolutely includes liberals.
It is the American consumer that keeps lining up with full carts to buy the products manufactured overseas.
You wanna make a difference, then join the rest of us who take two seconds to see if there are American alternatives.
But you won't do that. And neither will all of the people bitching and moaning about all the lost jobs.
The products would sit on the shelves and ROT if people refused to buy them!

Buying cheap foreign made products isn’t the only way a worker can compensate for low wages

Walmart is king

 

[Leo123]

Rampant speculation caused the crash

As usual, you have only part of the story....No, it was Barney Frank's oversight of Fannie Mae who created 'affordable housing' loans that allowed people to lie about their income qualification based on the false assumption that Real Estate values could never go down. Those mortgage instruments were certified by Fannie Mae which allowed them to be bundled into securities. This is a good example of typical Neo-Marxists creating problems where none existed then.....Spending more money on government programs to solve the problems they created.

 

[Leo123]

That’s the point

That ladder to success is no longer there. Low skilled labor used to move towards manufacturing or maybe a union job where they could support a family. Those jobs have disappeared.

Yea you can enter a minimum wage job and maybe move up to ten bucks an hour. But the track to twenty dollar an hour jobs is not there

Bullshit.....Opportunity is there if one is willing to actually work. Neo-Marxists always want people to believe that 'the man' or some 'rich' people are keeping them from prospering. That's how they seize control......by convincing everyone they are 'victims' and that they (Neo-Marxists) must create big government to 'protect' the victims they created.

 

[rightwinger]

Very true

Most countries understand that

Really? Which nations have the same universal income for all citizens?

Who has ever advocated universal income other than rightwing fantasies

Ensuring people have access to affordable housing, healthcare and food does not constitute universal income

Affordable housing caused the Real Estate crash of 2008. Government healthcare programs caused healthcare to become unaffordable. Right now there is no great food problem but, let the organic freaks loose and there will be. Neo-Marxists fuck up everything.

Rampant speculation caused the crash

No, it was Barney Frank's oversight of Fannie Mae who created 'affordable housing' loans that allowed people to lie about their income qualification based on the false assumption that Real Estate values could never go down. Those mortgage instruments were certified by Fannie Mae which allowed them to be bundled into securities. Typical Neo-Marxists creating problems where none existed then.....Spending more money on government programs to solve the problems they created.

That is a joke

Republicans controlled Congress. How did Barney Frank get to run things

 

[rightwinger]

That’s the point

That ladder to success is no longer there. Low skilled labor used to move towards manufacturing or maybe a union job where they could support a family. Those jobs have disappeared.

Yea you can enter a minimum wage job and maybe move up to ten bucks an hour. But the track to twenty dollar an hour jobs is not there

Bullshit.....Opportunity is there if one is willing to actually work. Neo-Marxists always want people to believe that 'the man' or some 'rich' people are keeping them from prospering. That's how they seize control......by convincing everyone they are 'victims' and that they (Neo-Marxists) must create big government to 'protect' the victims they created.

If “one” is willing to work

There are 30 million low skilled workers. You got 30 million better jobs lined up if they only apply themselves more?

 

[Leo123]

Really? Which nations have the same universal income for all citizens?

Who has ever advocated universal income other than rightwing fantasies

Ensuring people have access to affordable housing, healthcare and food does not constitute universal income

Affordable housing caused the Real Estate crash of 2008. Government healthcare programs caused healthcare to become unaffordable. Right now there is no great food problem but, let the organic freaks loose and there will be. Neo-Marxists fuck up everything.

Rampant speculation caused the crash

No, it was Barney Frank's oversight of Fannie Mae who created 'affordable housing' loans that allowed people to lie about their income qualification based on the false assumption that Real Estate values could never go down. Those mortgage instruments were certified by Fannie Mae which allowed them to be bundled into securities. Typical Neo-Marxists creating problems where none existed then.....Spending more money on government programs to solve the problems they created.

That is a joke

Republicans controlled Congress. How did Barney Frank get to run things

He and his butt buddy Herb Moses created these liar loans that were certified by Fannie Mae....It had nothing to do with congress or the People.. Affordable housing legislation did not include being able to lie about one's income.