Welcome to tyranny.

[JoeB131]

This is not a health issue alone. It is not an economic issue alone. It's a health-economic issue.

The goal of course is to save both, but the questions is if that is possible?

After all, one may come at a cost to the other. Are 500 small businesses worth salvaging at the cost of 300,000 more dead Americans? Are 300,000 dead Americans worth the cost of saving those 500 businesses, and all the jobs associated with them?

The problem is with Trump is you get to win BOTH prizes. We'll lose more than 500 small businesses, and we'll end up with probably about 100,000 dead even with the actions taken.

 

[JoeB131]

When the economy is so collapsed that production and distribution of food is insufficient to feed everyone, then yes, people will starve. People will die. We've seen it happen in other nations, and we are seeing it set up, now, in front of our very eyes, to happen here, even in America.

again, poor people of color were starving before Covid-19 hit, and you were remarkably unconcerned. In fact, you cheered when Trump tried to cut Food Stamps... that was your "concern" about people going hungry, Mormon Bob.

Of course, the reason why our food distribution system works as well as it does is because it is so heavily subsidized by the government. Farm supports, food stamps, etc.

 

[JoeB131]

What does the Patriot Act have to do with freedom? I didn't lose any freedoms, did you???

Ever try getting through an airport recently? "Wow, it didn't make things worse for white people, so it must be okay."

Some, but most do take jobs Americans do want, some of them that would pay a pretty good wage if not for immigrants. Need the list of jobs they take and percentage? Just ask, and I'll be happy to post it. I'd post it now, but I don't want to waste my time providing an education you refuse to accept, like so many times in the past.

Good call, don't waste my time. Americans don't want these jobs. I've already told the story of the past company who fired all their illegals, and the only people they could get to replace them were meth-heads that terrified the office girls.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The reason the parent doesn't get involved in their children's eduction is because schools are funded by property taxes. When you get a voucher, you still have to come up with cold hard cash to fund the remainder of the cost. THAT DOES get parents more involved. You can't put them on a bus and send them off like you can with your local schools. You need to also provide transportation to the school you chose to send your kid to.

Ray, you've gone full retard. THE POOR CAN'T AFFORD to come up with the balance, and once you've started handing out vouchers, you know darned well these private schools will raise their prices as well. This is why vouchers FAILED in Milwaukee. The other problem with private schools is they don't have to take the kids with learning disabilities or behavioral problems. They can just cherry pick the ones they want. Vouchers would just become another form of White People Welfare.

Even if that was the case, aren't children better off raised in that environment than a mother that's never home, and the kids living off of TV dinners?

Um, no, being raised by two people who hate each other and should have gotten a divorce years ago is not better off for the kid.

Point is that even an IT guy can only make an average living. People who don't have that education are not paid very well.

I've done resumes for IT Guys... they make really good money. Better than a bottom feeding truck driver.

It has nothing to do with it. You are so full of excuses. Prior to the virus, these people would be home half of the day. They had kids they never could afford. I have seen them smoking dope, and that prevents you from getting better jobs because of drug testing. I've seen them multiple times throwing parties in the backyard with 20 to 30 people. Do you know how much that must cost? They come home at nights 12:00 to 2:00 am, laughing their ass off and slamming car doors because they are so loaded during the weeknights, and I had to pay for their stay in the suburbs.

Awww.... poor baby. Are you upset they are enjoying life and you aren't. That they are having parties with friends while you spend every night listening to police scanners and muttering about the darkies.

As I stated many times, in my line of work, they will take anybody willing to do the job there is such a shortage of professional drivers. They don't care if they are a minority or not. Some will train and get you licensed if you sign a one year contract with them.

Why would you sign a one year contract? That's crazy. What if they suck?

Don't give me this racism BS. We've had laws against racial discrimination for decades now, and even reverse discrimination decorated as Affirmative Action.

Uh, sorry, guy, racism is prevelent in hiring, and the main beneficiaries of Affirmative Action have been white women.

 

[JoeB131]

Between these two factors, inflating the number of COVID-19 deaths, and underestimating the number of people infected, I think it is very obvious that any fatality rate calculated from these numbers is going to be greatly exaggerated.

Mormon Bob, we are doing a better job of identifying the number of people infected than most countries. The US currently represents a third of the people identified as infected, but only a quarter of the world's deaths. We have the highest numbers of both.

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

Our confirmed fatality rate is 5.62%. It's 13% for Italy, 10% for Spain and 14% for France. This thing really is pretty deadly.

I think it should also be obvious that by imposing these draconian measures, ostensibly to slow the spread of the disease, that we are, in fact, accomplishing no such thing at all. We're only “protecting” people who are, in fact, already infected, or who, in spite of any reasonable measures, are unavoidably going to become infected anyway. We're destroying the economy, we're destroying people's livelihoods, we're destroying people's ability to keep roofs over their heads and food in their stomachs; for nothing.

The infection rate would be a LOT higher if we did nothing. This thing spreads through human interaction, and the lest people you have interacting, the less people you have getting it.

Well, nothing that is, other than to give the Democraps something that they hope to be able to blame the Republicans for, in order to give themselves an advantage in the next election cycle.

Yes, Trump incompetence in handling this issue, his poor leadership, his ugly, self-indulgent press conferences, and his stupid advice like "Inject Lysol" will definitely give the Democrats an issue to run on.

But you guys knew Trump was unfit when you nominated him.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ever try getting through an airport recently? "Wow, it didn't make things worse for white people, so it must be okay."

Good call, don't waste my time. Americans don't want these jobs. I've already told the story of the past company who fired all their illegals, and the only people they could get to replace them were meth-heads that terrified the office girls.

Now that's leftist thinking for ya. "I seen something" so that trumps cold hard statistics by non-bias sources. Gotcha.

Ray, you've gone full retard. THE POOR CAN'T AFFORD to come up with the balance, and once you've started handing out vouchers, you know darned well these private schools will raise their prices as well. This is why vouchers FAILED in Milwaukee. The other problem with private schools is they don't have to take the kids with learning disabilities or behavioral problems. They can just cherry pick the ones they want. Vouchers would just become another form of White People Welfare.

Poor people do come up with the money. If they couldn't, why did the Democrats fight it so hard? Oh yes, that's right, they are for the minorities, up to the point somebody is attacking one of their largest funding groups, the teachers union.

How is a program targeted at minorities a white welfare program?

Parents can choose any school they desire. In fact some do choose a public school in a more affluent area, you know, where those white kids go to school? It's up to the parent, but we all know how you leftists hate giving Americans choices.

Um, no, being raised by two people who hate each other and should have gotten a divorce years ago is not better off for the kid.

Right, having four kids, from four different baby daddies, being raised in poverty is so much better. You do know that single-parent homes are directly related to poverty and kids growing up to be criminals, don't you?

Awww.... poor baby. Are you upset they are enjoying life and you aren't. That they are having parties with friends while you spend every night listening to police scanners and muttering about the darkies.

I don't care if they enjoy life, just enjoy it were they belong--in the inner city. Live with other people who are on welfare. Live with people that don't mind being woken up in the middle of the night. Live with other people that don't mind the garbage strewn across their grass. Don't live here. If you want to live here, make enough money to be able to live here.

Why would you sign a one year contract? That's crazy. What if they suck?

Because if I told you they can go to school and learn the profession, the first thing you would reply with is they don't have the money. Well.....companies train for free, but you have to pay it back in different ways, such as working for them. They could join the military. They can do a lot of things, but they don't. They sit back and wait for government to take care of them.

Uh, sorry, guy, racism is prevelent in hiring, and the main beneficiaries of Affirmative Action have been white women.

A company has one favorite color, and that color is green. The employee that makes the company the most green is that companies favorite employee. And your theory is flawed. I've seen several companies replace their predominantly white crew with a predominantly black crew. It's the new thing with businesses the last couple of years.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Of course, the reason why our food distribution system works as well as it does is because it is so heavily subsidized by the government. Farm supports, food stamps, etc.

Right, because without food stamps, why.....people would just quit eating.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The thing is, the kind of policies I support actually DID make things better for the working class. The rich paid their fair share, the working class (at least white people) made a fair living wage, we invested in education and infrastructure that strengthened our economy.

Then the GOP figured out they could play on the racism, misogyny and religious fears of people like you, and you totally fell for it.

What Reagan and the GOP figured out is companies were leaving the country in droves because of government costs and the unions. The more intelligent workers figured the same thing, which is why unions lost support of the worker.

 

[Kondor3]

The solvency of a given business shut down by the pandemic is not worth the life of a single American citizen.

Is it worth the livelihoods of all the employees who depend on that company for the jobs that allow them to feed and house and otherwise support themselves and their families?

How much poverty, famine, homelessness is your spite toward such a company worth?

Human life is more important than the solvency of a given company.

Human life is more important than the economic well being of that company's employees.

Is it more important that the ability of people to feed their families?

What a fucking dumbass.

Nobody in this country is going to starve.

Consequently...

Yes...

Human life is more important than the solvency of a given company or the economic well-being of its employees.

Human life trumps all of that $hit.

No 'dumba$$' involved... merely eternal truth.

Something that whiny-bitch Trump butt-sniffers are entirely incapable of comprehending.

Sorry, turd, but it most definitely does not.

That is where you are as wrong as wrong can be.

And, fortunately for the American public, it is becoming increasingly clear that a great many Republican business owners and politicians hold your opinion.

November 3, 2020 will tell us whether Americans have had enough of your bull$hit.

Keep it up... you increase the likelihood of defeat in November with every such heartless pronouncement.

You a$$hats don't understand the underlying optics... which compounds your foolhardy position every time one of you opens your mouth.

Damned shame, too... I and vast numbers of Americans actually support a hard line on immigration, made-in-America initiatives, etc.

But when the price-tag includes the dangerous Orange Baboon and his mini-me minions and such heartless positions, well...

At that point, the price-tag has become too high to close the deal.

You a$$hats don't understand that, either.

Probably just as well.

Enjoy your last few months in power, and remember, on November 4, that it was you-and-yours, who brought the defeat down upon your own heads.

Damned fools.

 

[Kondor3]

Nobody in this country is going to starve.

When the economy is so collapsed that production and distribution of food is insufficient to feed everyone, then yes, people will starve. People will die. We've seen it happen in other nations, and we are seeing it set up, now, in front of our very eyes, to happen here, even in America.

The only reason why the food supply chain is under strain at-present is due to the presence of COVID-19 within meat packing and other food processing plants.

When infected workers are replaced and when those processing facilities receive a thorough cleansing then processing will resume and they won't be dumping milk, etc.

So long as we keep farmers afloat and processing plants and transport in an operational state then nothing else in the economy matters nearly as much, short term.

And we will do those things.

Nobody in this country is going to starve.

Even if we have to have the National Guard move food product from point A to Point B for a while - but it's not going to come to that.

Healthcare, food growing, food processing, transport and distribution outlets are the most fundamentally important elements to keep afloat at present. (*)

Beyond the realm of national defense, nothing else in the economy matters more than the elements described above (*).

The rest of it can be kept on ice for a while, if need-be, as painful as that icing might be.

 

[Kondor3]

Nobody in this country is going to starve.

When the economy is so collapsed that production and distribution of food is insufficient to feed everyone, then yes, people will starve. People will die. We've seen it happen in other nations, and we are seeing it set up, now, in front of our very eyes, to happen here, even in America.

and now that they've had their lockdown dry run, everything is in place for the government to have it's heel on our necks

~S~

It's all a worldwide Joooo-ish Socialist Kornspiracy, I tellz ya...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

When the economy is so collapsed that production and distribution of food is insufficient to feed everyone, then yes, people will starve. People will die. We've seen it happen in other nations, and we are seeing it set up, now, in front of our very eyes, to happen here, even in America.

The only reason why the food supply chain is under strain at-present is due to the presence of COVID-19 within meat packing and other food processing plants.

When infected workers are replaced and when those processing facilities receive a thorough cleansing then processing will resume and they won't be dumping milk, etc.

I truly don't know how to respond to this.

I am utterly astounded, here, by the absolute, unimaginable degree of ignorance on your part.

Either you do not grasp the threat to our economic system, or you don't understand that a collapse of that system means that food will not be produced and distributed, if those who are expected to do so are unable to obtain the resources that hey need to do so.

Apparently, you see the economy as some meaningless abstract concept, divorced from the tangible impact that it has on everyone's ability to produce, obtain, and consume the things that we need in order to live.

Allow the economy to be trashed, in the manner that you so carelessly and ignorantly defend, and people will suffer, and people will die, as a direct result.

 

[Kondor3]

When the economy is so collapsed that production and distribution of food is insufficient to feed everyone, then yes, people will starve. People will die. We've seen it happen in other nations, and we are seeing it set up, now, in front of our very eyes, to happen here, even in America.

The only reason why the food supply chain is under strain at-present is due to the presence of COVID-19 within meat packing and other food processing plants.

When infected workers are replaced and when those processing facilities receive a thorough cleansing then processing will resume and they won't be dumping milk, etc.

I truly don't know how to respond to this.

I am utterly astounded, here, by the absolute, unimaginable degree of ignorance on your part.

Either you do not grasp the threat to our economic system, or you don't understand that a collapse of that system means that food will not be produced and distributed, if those who are expected to do so are unable to obtain the resources that hey need to do so.

Apparently, you see the economy as some meaningless abstract concept, divorced from the tangible impact that it has on everyone's ability to produce, obtain, and consume the things that we need in order to live.

Allow the economy to be trashed, in the manner that you so carelessly and ignorantly defend, and people will suffer, and people will die, as a direct result.

Incorrect.

I merely place a vastly higher value on human life than I do on the solvency of a given company.

 

[JoeB131]

Now that's leftist thinking for ya. "I seen something" so that trumps cold hard statistics by non-bias sources. Gotcha.

you don't have cold hard facts, guy. You know what, if you have failed so badly in life that you're in danger of losing your job to someone with no money, no connections and a limited grasp on the English Language, that's on you.

Right, having four kids, from four different baby daddies, being raised in poverty is so much better. You do know that single-parent homes are directly related to poverty and kids growing up to be criminals, don't you?

I've seen kids raised by single parents who turned out just fine. I've seen kids with married parents who would have done better if they were raised by feral wolves.

50% of marriages end in divorce. We are all better off for it. Less battered wives and traumatized kids.

Right, because without food stamps, why.....people would just quit eating.

Naw, they'd probably start rioting.. but there would be no market to GROW the food if it wasn't subsidized with food stamps. Funny thing about our agricultural policy, it's about as socialist as you can get. Food distribution is too important to be trusted to pure capitalism.

What Reagan and the GOP figured out is companies were leaving the country in droves because of government costs and the unions. The more intelligent workers figured the same thing, which is why unions lost support of the worker.

Actually, they left because Reagan sold us out to the Japanese, and the Japanese gave him a shitload of money when he left. But funny thing. Japan has stronger unions than we do

 

[JoeB131]

I truly don't know how to respond to this.

I am utterly astounded, here, by the absolute, unimaginable degree of ignorance on your part.

Either you do not grasp the threat to our economic system, or you don't understand that a collapse of that system means that food will not be produced and distributed, if those who are expected to do so are unable to obtain the resources that hey need to do so.

Apparently, you see the economy as some meaningless abstract concept, divorced from the tangible impact that it has on everyone's ability to produce, obtain, and consume the things that we need in order to live.

Allow the economy to be trashed, in the manner that you so carelessly and ignorantly defend, and people will suffer, and people will die, as a direct result.

Hey, Mormon Bob, part of the reason why the agricultural system is currently in trouble is because your Hero Trump scared off most of the cheap migrant labor it depends on. A lot of these places were struggling before Covid scared everyone back into their homes.

Of course, the lockdown isn't the problem here... Here's a story from before Covid struck.

Op-Ed: America has a farm labor shortage. We need a better guest worker program

Americans expect a lot from farmers and ranchers: fresh, unblemished fruits and vegetables, locally grown and responsibly harvested.

www.latimes.com

This prodigious output isn’t automatic and doesn’t happen by chance. American agriculture relies on hundreds of thousands of skilled workers to plant the fields, tend the crops, harvest the produce and pack it for markets both here and abroad. We don’t have enough of these workers.

Mandating E-Verify for agriculture without an expanded guest worker program would make the situation worse. Instead it would decimate the existing agricultural workforce without providing any workers to take their place.

These realities — a dearth of Americans who want to work on farms, people from outside the U.S. who do want to work on farms, and a law that virtually compels farmers to hire workers who are in the country illegally — give us the situation we have today.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you don't have cold hard facts, guy. You know what, if you have failed so badly in life that you're in danger of losing your job to someone with no money, no connections and a limited grasp on the English Language, that's on you.

Just because somebody is from another country and poor doesn't mean they can't be trained in areas like construction, which a lot of illegals are taking those jobs. That puts those hard working blue collar workers you claim to support in the backseat.

The tech industry is the same way, except they don't hire illegals, but they are foreigners nevertheless. And like other fields, they come here and work for peanuts decreasing wages for American workers.

Do you really believe that some immigrant can't write resumes?

I've seen kids raised by single parents who turned out just fine. I've seen kids with married parents who would have done better if they were raised by feral wolves.

50% of marriages end in divorce. We are all better off for it. Less battered wives and traumatized kids.

It does happen, but a larger percentage of kids grow up in poverty with a single parent. They also end up in more trouble with the law as well. Boys especially need that father figure to look up to. In some black communities, they have over a 70% out of wedlock birth rate, and as we both know, there is a high disproportion of blacks in prison today.

Males are aggressive, an aggression most mothers don't have. A male child needs just as an aggressive parent who understands their aggression, and can control it. A lot of women can't do that.

Naw, they'd probably start rioting.. but there would be no market to GROW the food if it wasn't subsidized with food stamps. Funny thing about our agricultural policy, it's about as socialist as you can get. Food distribution is too important to be trusted to pure capitalism.

No, they won't start rioting. In Maine for instance, the Governor created requirements for receiving food stamps that were restricted to people with no dependents. You had to have a job working 20 hours a week, do charity work at least 20 hours a month, or be enrolled in a vocational program. Most of those people were not that hungry after all. They dropped out of the program.

People are not going to quit eating just because they don't get food stamps.

Actually, they left because Reagan sold us out to the Japanese, and the Japanese gave him a shitload of money when he left. But funny thing. Japan has stronger unions than we do

Really? Then why are most of our goods made in China?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I merely place a vastly higher value on human life than I do on the solvency of a given company.

False dichotomy.

You're assuming that a company, that the economy as a whole, is something that can be sacrificed to save human lives, and ignorantly disregarding the impact that economic conditions have on human lives.

To sacrifice the economy, you are not saving human lives, you are sacrificing human lives. For what purpose?

 

[Kondor3]

I merely place a vastly higher value on human life than I do on the solvency of a given company.

False dichotomy.

You're assuming that a company, that the economy as a whole, is something that can be sacrificed to save human lives, and ignorantly disregarding the impact that economic conditions have on human lives.

To sacrifice the economy, you are not saving human lives, you are sacrificing human lives. For what purpose?

Incorrect.

If, by sacrificing the solvency of a non-essential company, we save human lives, through lessened exposure, then it's well-worth the sacrifice.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

If, by sacrificing the solvency of a non-essential company, we save human lives, through lessened exposure, then it's well-worth the sacrifice.

EVERY company, every job, is essential to the one who depends on it to enable him to make his living, to keep a roof over his head, and food on his table.

Your misconception that you can save human lives by sacrificing the economy, is absurd and ignorant nonsense.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I merely place a vastly higher value on human life than I do on the solvency of a given company.

False dichotomy.

You're assuming that a company, that the economy as a whole, is something that can be sacrificed to save human lives, and ignorantly disregarding the impact that economic conditions have on human lives.

To sacrifice the economy, you are not saving human lives, you are sacrificing human lives. For what purpose?

Incorrect.

If, by sacrificing the solvency of a non-essential company, we save human lives, through lessened exposure, then it's well-worth the sacrifice.

That is unless you work for the company or have your IRA investments in it.

 

[JoeB131]

Just because somebody is from another country and poor doesn't mean they can't be trained in areas like construction, which a lot of illegals are taking those jobs. That puts those hard working blue collar workers you claim to support in the backseat.

Most Americans don't want to do construction... Nobody goes to college for four years to work construction.

The tech industry is the same way, except they don't hire illegals, but they are foreigners nevertheless. And like other fields, they come here and work for peanuts decreasing wages for American workers.

Naw, man, the real problem is that Americans, being fat, lazy and stupid, don't develop the math skills to do IT work. We've spent decades teaching kids about talking snakes instead of math, and it shows.

Do you really believe that some immigrant can't write resumes?

Given what I see cross my desk every day.. um, no. Most people born here can't, either. Immigrants are kind of my best customers, as they have lots of skills and background, but lack the English skills to express it well.

It does happen, but a larger percentage of kids grow up in poverty with a single parent. They also end up in more trouble with the law as well. Boys especially need that father figure to look up to. In some black communities, they have over a 70% out of wedlock birth rate, and as we both know, there is a high disproportion of blacks in prison today.

Well, that and we have a prison industrial complex that locks kids up. Black kids get prison, white kids get probation and diversion programs. If we started locking up the little white bastards like we do the black kids, we'd get some serious social reform.

Males are aggressive, an aggression most mothers don't have. A male child needs just as an aggressive parent who understands their aggression, and can control it. A lot of women can't do that.

Yeah, talk to the prisoners, a lot of them had a male in their life that beat them... or worse.

No, they won't start rioting. In Maine for instance, the Governor created requirements for receiving food stamps that were restricted to people with no dependents. You had to have a job working 20 hours a week, do charity work at least 20 hours a month, or be enrolled in a vocational program. Most of those people were not that hungry after all. They dropped out of the program.

Uh, he did that when unemployment had dropped to minimal amounts, and Maine is about the Whitest state you have out there. Let's see now this plays out now that Trump has brought us "Great Depression Two". Brother can you spare a bit-coin?

Really? Then why are most of our goods made in China?

They aren't. Most of what we consume is still made here. The Chinese have managed to take certain niches of cheap products, but most of those we lost to the Japanese first.

Now, key point, what we aren't seeing are Chinese "Brands". We are seeing American and Japanese brands made in China. Unlike when Reagan sold us out to the Japanese, where Sony and Toyota displaced Zenith and Ford as major brands.

My personal favorite was when Motorola did the "Herro Moto" commercials trying to imply their crap was Japanese made. Motorola used to have a huge manufacturing campus North of where I live.. It's almost entirely gone now.