What are people thinking as they hear the Senate arguments?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I found Jamie Raskin compelling, and the video horrifying...and I can't get it out of my mind.

Raskin is horrifying by himself, and the reason you can't get it out of your mind is because there is nothing else there to crowd it!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

it says in the constitution that impeachment is to be considered as an action to remove a sitting president AND prevent them from further office. The second clause is dependant on the first.

It doesn't say OR prevent a person from further office.

This is all a fraudulent dog and pony show, as impeachment was never meant to be an action taken against a private citizen

Did you notice the "precedent" they used in the senate?
William Belknap. Thats who. The guy that got impeached and the Senate voted they didnt have the jurisdiction to convict a removed public servant.
You cant make this shit up
William W. Belknap - Wikipedia

From the very first paragraph of you own link:

“Belknap's defense managers argued that the Senate had no jurisdiction; the Senate ruled by a vote of 37–29 that it did.”

You just “made your own shit up.” If you listened to the discussion you would perhaps have learned something.

First, Belknap was not the President.

Second, if it was Constitutional, why did Chief Justice Roberts refuse to try it?

Congress once said slaves were property, no matter if it was a free or slave state. Was that Constitutional.? They later changed their mind.

Congress had no problem interring American citizens of Japanese ancestry in WWII. Was that Constitutional.? They later changed their mind.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I can call you names

But that and whataboutism is as far as you get.

Random rioters and looters have never tried to overthrow an election result because their side lost.

Have they?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Schoen's argument boils down to "You should be indicting and convicting him in criminal court". He's not making any arguments about innocence.

I agree. This impeachment trial is a waste of time. The DOJ should be charging Trump with inciting an insurrection, sedition, and treason. Let him face a jury not comprised of gutless Trumpublican fucktards.

That is why you are a dumbass!

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Just watched Representative Jamie Ruskin’s summary.

To me, his indictment is logical, powerful, and irrefutable.

He started slowly. I suppose Ruskin was exhausted. Many of us know his son died just a week or so ago. But the man, a Constitutional lawyer as well as a Congressman, rallied to the challenge. He became more and more eloquent. He spoke fluently and — to me — very movingly about what was at stake.

I haven’t yet seen a less “staged” or more competent attack on Trump’s criminal & treasonous conduct.

That doesn't change the fact that this impeachment trial is unconstitutional.

The Senate already ruled in a bipartisan vote that the impeachment trial is Constitutional.

Both Republicans and Democrats in the Senate have agreed on the procedures, witnesses and voting.

The ex-President was invited to appear at the very Capitol his violent supporters attacked, to defend himself before the Republican and Democratic Congressman they were hunting. The coward gave no reason for refusing to appear to face formal charges of inciting the mob that wished to prevent the peaceful transference of power to President Biden. Apparently Trump was afraid of being made a fool of, of breaking down into gibberish under cross examination, or of sounding maniacally irrational as he did in his first debate with Biden.

Perhaps one day you will be able to save up and buy a ticket to Mar-a-Largo, where (for money) you will be able to hear Trump recite the “History Will Resolve Me” speech he didn’t have the courage to give today.

Hey dummy, try getting an education. The Senate can NOT declare anything constitutional. That would be be decided by SCOTUS. Trump a coward? Laughable. You assholes had no case. No reason for him to appear and lend any legitimacy to your clown show. Seems your side went full coward once the threat was made to put Pisslosi and other Dem riot encourager seems on the stand. Now go enjoy your cry at Trump’s full ACQUITTAL.

Full acquittal? 100 Senators voted against impeachment? Methinks you need to look up the word 'full'. I'm not even going to bring up the GOP Senators who voted FOR impeachment.

There's conviction, or aquittal. There's no "partial" applied to either.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I can call you names

But that and whataboutism is as far as you get.

Random rioters and looters have never tried to overthrow an election result because their side lost.

Have they?

Yes, they have...

More than 200 arrested in D.C. protests on inauguration day

217 people were arrested and six police officers suffered minor injuries after some protesters set fires and smashed windows in the nation's capital.

www.google.com

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

It looks like a show trial because it is a show trial. The Congress has no authority to bar a private citizen from running for office. This is most unconstitutional. What's worse, is Plan B is to use the 14th Amendment, which would be even more unconstitutional.

The 14th Amendment? Are we going to take his citizenship away?

They want to use Section 3 of the 14th Amendment:

"No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

Thank you, Bill!
There's that 2/3 problem again, though. Wonder if they can cut a backroom deal--okay, don't vote to convict, but agree to vote yes on the 14th. We'll be friends.

It would still be unconstitutional.

It's already been decided by the senate that the trial is constitutional. Let's move on. There are much more important matters to consider.

The problem is and forever will be, they do NOT get to decide. Roberts refusal to preside and the vote of not guilty saved the SCOTUS From having to smack down the Democrats in the Senate.

 

[Staidhup]

I imagine most Americans were thinking we elected this.......along with where’s the beef, and has anyone even read the Constitution?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Since he's a private citizen and if someone thinks the evidence is strong enough, he should be brought before a grand jury.

That is exactly what will happen AFTER his second impeachment "trial" finishes.

Trump’s New Criminal Problem

"The federal criminal code (18 USC 373) makes it a crime to solicit, command, induce or 'endeavor to persuade' another person to commit a felony that includes the threat or use of physical force.

"Simply put, it is a crime to persuade another person, or a mob of several thousand, to commit a violent felony."

Good. I was worried you guys would wait until I was too old, before you kicked off the civil war.

Nice to see you are putting the pedal to the medal.

The word is "metal", not "medal".

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Yes, they have...

That was random rioting in DC. I did not see where any of that violence was inside the US Capitol during Joint SESSION hell bent on stopping the certification of the States Electors.

“The worst fracas on Friday erupted in Franklin Square, about a mile-and-a-half from Capitol Hill, just before Trump's swearing-in ceremony got underway, police said​

And it was TrumpQ’s inauguration day. Two weeks after TumpQ was verified as President Elect.,

Neither Clinton nor Obama for her claimed to have won because the electric was a fraud.

Police say rioters were anarchists.

Those are not Democrats.


Your post is a lie and you are a liar.

 

[Dr Grump]

Just watched Representative Jamie Ruskin’s summary.

To me, his indictment is logical, powerful, and irrefutable.

He started slowly. I suppose Ruskin was exhausted. Many of us know his son died just a week or so ago. But the man, a Constitutional lawyer as well as a Congressman, rallied to the challenge. He became more and more eloquent. He spoke fluently and — to me — very movingly about what was at stake.

I haven’t yet seen a less “staged” or more competent attack on Trump’s criminal & treasonous conduct.

That doesn't change the fact that this impeachment trial is unconstitutional.

Which part is unconstitutional?

 

[Dr Grump]

There's conviction, or aquittal. There's no "partial" applied to either.

M'eh. I think using the adjective 'full' is overstating the result. I'd go with acquittal.

 

[Dr Grump]

I can call you names

But that and whataboutism is as far as you get.

Random rioters and looters have never tried to overthrow an election result because their side lost.

Have they?

And who says those rioters were even Dem voters. For a start Antifa is not even a true movement. There is no leader. No headquarters. No manifesto. Just a group of people calling themselves that, or in most cases, the media assigning them that nom de guerre. Several of these idiots have gone on record stating they hate the Dems just as much.

Also, I hear a lot of neocons talking about "40" people have died because of the rioting - ie alluding that these 40 people were victims of the rioters. Several of those dead - included in that number - have been rioters themselves or those taken out by righties. It's a two way street.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The impeachment hearings are over. This thread of mine should be closed. There are plenty of other threads to carry on with the same old shit.

I have no intention of responding further to petty apologists for ex-President Trump. I have made my opinions clear enough already. Frankly, I am sick of talking to apologists for this man.

That is a main reason I’m leaving USMB. I tried to put it in a more positive way in a separate OP here:

I will take a break from USMB ...

It’s been almost a year I’ve been here and it’s time for me to move on ... I miss reading books and feel I’ve gotten a bit addicted to prowling the threads here and reading how lunatics and wise men argue over American partisan politics. It’s really a boring subject to me and I’ve just had my...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Correll]

I can call you names

But that and whataboutism is as far as you get.

Random rioters and looters have never tried to overthrow an election result because their side lost.

Have they?

If you listen to what the rioters are actually saying, their intent is at least that radical.

Plenty of the antifa rioters have screamed about destroying America, or burning it all down.

Plenty of blm rioters have screamed about killing all cops or killing all white people.

You are focusing on one facet of one riot, to give yourself an excuse to pretend that your side's violence is ok, while your enemies violence in not.


Me? I condemn all the political violence of the last 5 years.

 

[Correll]

I can call you names

But that and whataboutism is as far as you get.

Random rioters and looters have never tried to overthrow an election result because their side lost.

Have they?

And who says those rioters were even Dem voters. For a start Antifa is not even a true movement. There is no leader. No headquarters. No manifesto. Just a group of people calling themselves that, or in most cases, the media assigning them that nom de guerre. Several of these idiots have gone on record stating they hate the Dems just as much.

Also, I hear a lot of neocons talking about "40" people have died because of the rioting - ie alluding that these 40 people were victims of the rioters. Several of those dead - included in that number - have been rioters themselves or those taken out by righties. It's a two way street.

What a load of crap.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Me? I condemn all the political violence of the last 5 years.

As do I. However, I specifically condemn political violence that is directly perpetuated by the President of the United States as explained by Mitch:

​

"There's no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it. The people that stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president," McConnell said. "And having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories and reckless hyperbole, which the defeated president kept shouting into the largest megaphone on the Earth," McConnell added.”​

Face it liar. Their is no such conspirator as high as President of the United States of America on the Democratic Party side. Yet you falsely equate TrumpQ’s political violence unleashed on members of Congress based on his lies about winning an election he lost and his attempts to undo it, to some crazed anarchists acting on their own with no ties whatsoever to any government official whatsoever.

You are an idiot and idiots make the best racists.

​

 

[Dr Grump]

I can call you names

But that and whataboutism is as far as you get.

Random rioters and looters have never tried to overthrow an election result because their side lost.

Have they?

And who says those rioters were even Dem voters. For a start Antifa is not even a true movement. There is no leader. No headquarters. No manifesto. Just a group of people calling themselves that, or in most cases, the media assigning them that nom de guerre. Several of these idiots have gone on record stating they hate the Dems just as much.

Also, I hear a lot of neocons talking about "40" people have died because of the rioting - ie alluding that these 40 people were victims of the rioters. Several of those dead - included in that number - have been rioters themselves or those taken out by righties. It's a two way street.

What a load of crap.

Obviously a reply from somebody who has carried out zero research...

 

[lantern2814]

Just watched Representative Jamie Ruskin’s summary.

To me, his indictment is logical, powerful, and irrefutable.

He started slowly. I suppose Ruskin was exhausted. Many of us know his son died just a week or so ago. But the man, a Constitutional lawyer as well as a Congressman, rallied to the challenge. He became more and more eloquent. He spoke fluently and — to me — very movingly about what was at stake.

I haven’t yet seen a less “staged” or more competent attack on Trump’s criminal & treasonous conduct.

That doesn't change the fact that this impeachment trial is unconstitutional.

The Senate already ruled in a bipartisan vote that the impeachment trial is Constitutional.

Both Republicans and Democrats in the Senate have agreed on the procedures, witnesses and voting.

The ex-President was invited to appear at the very Capitol his violent supporters attacked, to defend himself before the Republican and Democratic Congressman they were hunting. The coward gave no reason for refusing to appear to face formal charges of inciting the mob that wished to prevent the peaceful transference of power to President Biden. Apparently Trump was afraid of being made a fool of, of breaking down into gibberish under cross examination, or of sounding maniacally irrational as he did in his first debate with Biden.

Perhaps one day you will be able to save up and buy a ticket to Mar-a-Largo, where (for money) you will be able to hear Trump recite the “History Will Resolve Me” speech he didn’t have the courage to give today.

Hey dummy, try getting an education. The Senate can NOT declare anything constitutional. That would be be decided by SCOTUS. Trump a coward? Laughable. You assholes had no case. No reason for him to appear and lend any legitimacy to your clown show. Seems your side went full coward once the threat was made to put Pisslosi and other Dem riot encourager seems on the stand. Now go enjoy your cry at Trump’s full ACQUITTAL.

Full acquittal? 100 Senators voted against impeachment? Methinks you need to look up the word 'full'. I'm not even going to bring up the GOP Senators who voted FOR impeachment.

He was found not guilty. That is full acquittal. No matter how much you cry about it.

 

[Dr Grump]

Just watched Representative Jamie Ruskin’s summary.

To me, his indictment is logical, powerful, and irrefutable.

He started slowly. I suppose Ruskin was exhausted. Many of us know his son died just a week or so ago. But the man, a Constitutional lawyer as well as a Congressman, rallied to the challenge. He became more and more eloquent. He spoke fluently and — to me — very movingly about what was at stake.

I haven’t yet seen a less “staged” or more competent attack on Trump’s criminal & treasonous conduct.

That doesn't change the fact that this impeachment trial is unconstitutional.

The Senate already ruled in a bipartisan vote that the impeachment trial is Constitutional.

Both Republicans and Democrats in the Senate have agreed on the procedures, witnesses and voting.

The ex-President was invited to appear at the very Capitol his violent supporters attacked, to defend himself before the Republican and Democratic Congressman they were hunting. The coward gave no reason for refusing to appear to face formal charges of inciting the mob that wished to prevent the peaceful transference of power to President Biden. Apparently Trump was afraid of being made a fool of, of breaking down into gibberish under cross examination, or of sounding maniacally irrational as he did in his first debate with Biden.

Perhaps one day you will be able to save up and buy a ticket to Mar-a-Largo, where (for money) you will be able to hear Trump recite the “History Will Resolve Me” speech he didn’t have the courage to give today.

Hey dummy, try getting an education. The Senate can NOT declare anything constitutional. That would be be decided by SCOTUS. Trump a coward? Laughable. You assholes had no case. No reason for him to appear and lend any legitimacy to your clown show. Seems your side went full coward once the threat was made to put Pisslosi and other Dem riot encourager seems on the stand. Now go enjoy your cry at Trump’s full ACQUITTAL.

Full acquittal? 100 Senators voted against impeachment? Methinks you need to look up the word 'full'. I'm not even going to bring up the GOP Senators who voted FOR impeachment.

He was found not guilty. That is full acquittal. No matter how much you cry about it.

ppffftt...you want to champion a scummy piece of shit, go for it...doesn't bother me one iota.