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What are the options for those like me?

Hillary is so corrupt she can't be trusted to run my household budget let alone the country.
Trump is only in it for his own entertainment & possibly his wallet.

Where do I go? Third party is a dead end. Do I just pack my bags & go home so to speak? Cross my fingers & hope our economy survives the next 4 years?

I truly have no idea where to focus my attention. Up to this point I have focused on anti Trump shit in a desperate attempt to see a change at our convention to see help for the down ballets but I'm beginning to see that is a lost cause too. Plus it's making me hated here by both sides rather than just one.

Sucks to be in this jar of sour pickles

You have to look at the most important thing that will come from this election, that will affect the country long after the next president is a footnote in history. Who do you want to make the next 2-4 supreme court nominations? The list Trump put together contain some damned fine people, or would you prefer more Kagan and Sotomayor clones. Who makes the picks will affect the country for possibly a hundred years or more.

If I thought for a second that Trump could be trusted to actually pick off that list, that might matter. Unfortunately, immediately after releasing that list, he backpedaled on it and said, basically, "Or, you know, whoever. It'll be great, that's all you need to know." So really, I'm exactly where I was before his list vis a vis Trump's potential SC picks: whichever person happens to tickle his fancy at that particular moment, could be anyone.

That why we have a senate, isn't it? I know what we'll get with the hildabitch, so at this time, the unknown is better.

Honey, if we could trust the frigging Senate to watch out for our best interests, we wouldn't have Donald effing Trump as a nominee in the first place.

And no, the unknown isn't "better"; it's just unknown. I'm already shaking my head at the number of geniuses in this country who decided that what we REALLY needed right now was to bet our nation's future on Schrodinger's Cat with a bad combover, but I feel no inclination whatsoever to join them, especially since I can actually SEE the guy, and make some pretty informed guesses on whether or not that feline is alive . . . perhaps because I'm not busy being desperate to believe this insane gamble MIGHT turn out okay.

Being a cynic might be depressing, but at least all your surprises are good ones.

So you prefer keeping the bag of crap in hand instead of trading it for door #1, I don't suggest you play any game shows. Just do your thing and I'll do mine. But I'll just enjoy telling you I told you so as a regressive court takes away your rights one at a time.
 
Was Bill Clinton so corrupt he couldn't be trusted to run your budget?

It's amazing to see how different him and his wife get viewed, while you know they are very much on the same page.

How incredibly sexist. Hillary Clinton is her own person. There is absolutely no reason to view her and her husband as "the same" on any level, except for the ridiculously outdated notion that a woman's identity is determined by to whom she is married.

Lol wtf? I'm just saying they are a duo and I've never seen them take positions that contradict each other. Hillary's "identity" is no more defined by Bill than Bill's "identity" is defined by Hillary.

Can you point to an example of a policy disagreement between them?

Even if they did hold identical policy opinions in all things, the fact of the matter remains that being President is a job where one leads the government. What other job in the world would you you find it rational to assume that a spouse would perform the same as the first person in filling that role just because they share common opinions? Two doctors married to each other might share the same opinions about the best ways to treat a patient. That does not mean that both doctors are equally skilled as doctors. And it most certainly does not mean that they would be equally skilled at being a hospital administrator.

Hillary has had plenty of experience in "doctoring". Substantively, I just don't see all that much difference and if she'll be half as slick as Bill she'll still have much more respectable presidency than the embarrassing clown show Trump is going to put on.
 
It is built-in to our voting system though. Winner-take-all, plurality voting systems inevitably split voters into two dominant factions. We might be able to replace one of the parties via the ballot box, but we won't change the dynamic until we change the voting system.

The only way that could happen is if both parties greatly piss off their constituents at the same time, and that's likely not going to happen.

The closest we came actually is this election. If Sander's had the majority of votes and the DNC picked Hillary, and the majority of voters voted for Trump but they gave it to Cruz, that would probably make a four person presidential race as Sander's and Trump might have ran as Independents.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.
 
Hillary is so corrupt she can't be trusted to run my household budget let alone the country.
Trump is only in it for his own entertainment & possibly his wallet.

Where do I go? Third party is a dead end. Do I just pack my bags & go home so to speak? Cross my fingers & hope our economy survives the next 4 years?

I truly have no idea where to focus my attention. Up to this point I have focused on anti Trump shit in a desperate attempt to see a change at our convention to see help for the down ballets but I'm beginning to see that is a lost cause too. Plus it's making me hated here by both sides rather than just one.

Sucks to be in this jar of sour pickles
Do what I'm doing. Sit back and watch the end times.
 
Hillary is so corrupt she can't be trusted to run my household budget let alone the country.
Trump is only in it for his own entertainment & possibly his wallet.

Where do I go? Third party is a dead end. Do I just pack my bags & go home so to speak? Cross my fingers & hope our economy survives the next 4 years?

I truly have no idea where to focus my attention. Up to this point I have focused on anti Trump shit in a desperate attempt to see a change at our convention to see help for the down ballets but I'm beginning to see that is a lost cause too. Plus it's making me hated here by both sides rather than just one.

Sucks to be in this jar of sour pickles


Looks like the GOP is your best hope....they are looking for failures like you all the time....
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

So you agree? We should demand it because the two parties are such a mess. They've had pretty much exclusive power in pretty much all branches of government for far too long, IMO. And look where's it gotten us. :rolleyes-41:
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

So you agree? We should demand it because the two parties are such a mess. They've had pretty much exclusive power in pretty much all branches of government for far too long, IMO. And look where's it gotten us. :rolleyes-41:
Absolutely, but not just because the two parties are in mess. It is utter insanity the way we finance political campaigns. Each candidate should have equal time and finances to present themselves, their qualifications, and policies on the same platform before the nation.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

So you agree? We should demand it because the two parties are such a mess. They've had pretty much exclusive power in pretty much all branches of government for far too long, IMO. And look where's it gotten us. :rolleyes-41:
Absolutely, but not just because the two parties are in mess. It is utter insanity the way we finance political campaigns. Each candidate should have equal time and finances to present themselves, their qualifications, and policies on the same platform before the nation.

And the elections wouldn't be as much of a circus because they wouldn't have tons of money to blow on negative campaigning. I can definitely get behind that!
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

So you agree? We should demand it because the two parties are such a mess. They've had pretty much exclusive power in pretty much all branches of government for far too long, IMO. And look where's it gotten us. :rolleyes-41:
Absolutely, but not just because the two parties are in mess. It is utter insanity the way we finance political campaigns. Each candidate should have equal time and finances to present themselves, their qualifications, and policies on the same platform before the nation.

And the elections wouldn't be as much of a circus because they wouldn't have tons of money to blow on negative campaigning. I can definitely get behind that!
The campaigning I have in mind would be a series of real debates, not the nonsense we have. If you're running for president, you debate the issues. You don't get to make the rules, you follow them. You go off topic and you're shut off. You don't answer the question, you're judged non-responsive.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

It would merely put the existing regime in charge of deciding who is allowed to challenge it.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

It would merely put the existing regime in charge of deciding who is allowed to challenge it.

In other words we are all fucked by the powers that be.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

It would merely put the existing regime in charge of deciding who is allowed to challenge it.

In other words we are all fucked by the powers that be.

Until we refuse to grant them so much power, yeah. The problem is that most of us have bought into the idea that the solution is to give them more. I don't get that.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

It would merely put the existing regime in charge of deciding who is allowed to challenge it.

In other words we are all fucked by the powers that be.

Until we refuse to grant them so much power, yeah. The problem is that most of us have bought into the idea that the solution is to give them more. I don't get that.

It's that "lesser of two evils" rhetoric that the partisans spread around. They are always telling us if we vote for 3rd party candidates, then we are throwing our votes away. Well, if people would ignore that and vote for those 3rd party candidates, then perhaps we could slowly but surely remove that monopoly that the reps and dems have on our government.
 
It's that "lesser of two evils" rhetoric that the partisans spread around. They are always telling us if we vote for 3rd party candidates, then we are throwing our votes away. Well, if people would ignore that and vote for those 3rd party candidates, then perhaps we could slowly but surely remove that monopoly that the reps and dems have on our government.

Um- No.

The third party guys are usually folks you wouldn't want in charge, anyway.

let's take a look, shall we?

2000 - Ralph Nader - Nut
1996 & 1992 - Ross Perot - Nut.
1980 - John Anderson - Nut.
1968 - George Wallace - Racist and Nut
1948 - Henry Wallace - Communist and Nut
1948- Strom THrumond - Racist and Nut

See a pattern here? You'd probably have to go back to 1912 to find a third party candidate who was even remotely credible to have the job.

Say what you want about the Two Party system, they usually don't produce nuts. (This year is an exception.)
 
It's that "lesser of two evils" rhetoric that the partisans spread around. They are always telling us if we vote for 3rd party candidates, then we are throwing our votes away. Well, if people would ignore that and vote for those 3rd party candidates, then perhaps we could slowly but surely remove that monopoly that the reps and dems have on our government.

Um- No.

The third party guys are usually folks you wouldn't want in charge, anyway.

let's take a look, shall we?

2000 - Ralph Nader - Nut
1996 & 1992 - Ross Perot - Nut.
1980 - John Anderson - Nut.
1968 - George Wallace - Racist and Nut
1948 - Henry Wallace - Communist and Nut
1948- Strom THrumond - Racist and Nut

See a pattern here? You'd probably have to go back to 1912 to find a third party candidate who was even remotely credible to have the job.

Say what you want about the Two Party system, they usually don't produce nuts. (This year is an exception.)

You must be joking. There are plenty of "others" running. I'll bet you don't even know how many candidates were running or anything about them.

2016 Presidential Candidates (Presidency 2016)
 
Hillary is so corrupt she can't be trusted to run my household budget let alone the country.
Trump is only in it for his own entertainment & possibly his wallet.

Where do I go? Third party is a dead end. Do I just pack my bags & go home so to speak? Cross my fingers & hope our economy survives the next 4 years?

I truly have no idea where to focus my attention. Up to this point I have focused on anti Trump shit in a desperate attempt to see a change at our convention to see help for the down ballets but I'm beginning to see that is a lost cause too. Plus it's making me hated here by both sides rather than just one.

Sucks to be in this jar of sour pickles

Just focus then on the Supreme Court knowing what Hillary will give us.

Trump is a gamble, but Hillary will put the final nails in the coffin for a generation, and possibly what's left of the future for America.

If that isn't motivation enough to plug your nose and go with Trump, then you're truly lost in the void.
 
You must be joking. There are plenty of "others" running. I'll bet you don't even know how many candidates were running or anything about them.

2016 Presidential Candidates (Presidency 2016)

I kind of don't need to. They are all nuts and whackos...

Now I might vote for Johnson, but only because I know he can't win and there's no change of NaziTrump winning my state.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

It would merely put the existing regime in charge of deciding who is allowed to challenge it.

In other words we are all fucked by the powers that be.

Until we refuse to grant them so much power, yeah. The problem is that most of us have bought into the idea that the solution is to give them more. I don't get that.

It's because those people have ceded the ultimate power to TPTB: the power to think. TPTB has told them to think that the source of their problems is OTHER people, and TPTB is the solution to that. And those people, incapable of thinking for themselves, never realize that TPTB are the real problem.
 
I think we really need to get those 3rd party candidates better known somehow. Campaign spending limits? That might even the playing field so that we can finally put an end to the monopoly that the two party system has had on us for so long. Neither party cares about us or the country. It's all about money and power and party politics for them now.
Changing the way we finance political campaigns would revolutionize politics in America which is why you will never see it.

It would merely put the existing regime in charge of deciding who is allowed to challenge it.

In other words we are all fucked by the powers that be.

Until we refuse to grant them so much power, yeah. The problem is that most of us have bought into the idea that the solution is to give them more. I don't get that.

It's that "lesser of two evils" rhetoric that the partisans spread around. They are always telling us if we vote for 3rd party candidates, then we are throwing our votes away. Well, if people would ignore that and vote for those 3rd party candidates, then perhaps we could slowly but surely remove that monopoly that the reps and dems have on our government.

If we would all just vote for what we truly want, rather than what we're told to want, or what we think we can "win", we'd get a hell of a lot farther. But that would take a while, and be painful in the short run, and people today really, REALLY suck at self-sacrifice.
 

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