What do liberals want the US to be?

[bripat9643]

horseshit. when obama took office the national debt was 10T , it is now over 17T and will be over 20T by the time he leaves office. Obama will have added more to the national debt than all previous presidents COMBINED

Do you understand the difference between annual deficit and national debt?

You understand that most of the things that caused the trillion dollar deficits at the begining of Obama's term were put in their by Bush- Tax cuts for the rich, wars that no one was paying for, etc.

Yes, it's all BOOOOOOOOOOSH's fault. We've heard this whine about 10,000 times already.

 

[BluesLegend]

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Do you spend 80% of your day fuming about this? lol

he probably does. He dreams of being Robin Hood.

I honestly never think about it, I'm too busy 'earning' my own wealth to worry about what somebody else is earning. FACT this country is the very definition of opportunity, its overflowing with opportunities. Too bad the left try to convince their base its hopeless.

 

[Redfish]

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far on this thread. I was very serious with the question in the OP. But so far not one liberal has been able to provide a specific cogent response. Billo came the closest.

It seems to me that liberals want everyone to have the same material things, for the government to care for everyone, and for everyone to love everyone else. The want a crime free nation that takes care of the poor and destitute of the entire world.

Simply stated, liberals live in a fantasy world where everyone puts flowers in their hair and dances around the may pole singing "I'd like to buy the world a coke" and "imagine".

Are your reading skills that poor?

Show where any liberal advocated everyone have the same material skills or that the government take care of everyone including the whole world

Provide the post numbers

I don't know what you mean by 'material skills'. I never said that. Unless I missed it, it is quite clear that liberals want some form of taxation and rebates that effectively make all citizens equal in terms of income. Liberals want single payer healthcare, is that not wanting the govt to take care of everyone?

MORE BULLSHIT FROM YOU

"We grudge no man a fortune which represents his own power and sagacity, when exercised with entire regard to the welfare of his fellows."


Teddy Roosevelt spoke impassionedly about great wealth, saying that it is "not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.

which party controlled congress when those tax rate changes were made?

careful with your answer.

 

[Dad2three]

Show me the post where anyone on this thread said everyone should have the same material things? Now you claim we are saying everyone should have the same income

You are not lying to us are you?

I love these posts where extreme partisans ask insincere questions, ignore the responses that actually address their questions, and then proceed to tell you what you believe, instead.

Having been conditioned to see the world in black and white, they see anything that is not in 100% lockstep as representing the polar opposite.

Nope, the OP was a serious question and I wanted serious responses. I had my suspicions as to how you libs would respond and you confirmed them.

You libs have no idea what you really want. You deal in theory, emotion, and feeeeeeeeeeelings, not reality.

thanks for the confirmation.

Projection from a righty. Shocking

Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

 

[bripat9643]

Show me the post where anyone on this thread said everyone should have the same material things? Now you claim we are saying everyone should have the same income

You are not lying to us are you?

I love these posts where extreme partisans ask insincere questions, ignore the responses that actually address their questions, and then proceed to tell you what you believe, instead.

Having been conditioned to see the world in black and white, they see anything that is not in 100% lockstep as representing the polar opposite.

Nope, the OP was a serious question and I wanted serious responses. I had my suspicions as to how you libs would respond and you confirmed them.

You libs have no idea what you really want. You deal in theory, emotion, and feeeeeeeeeeelings, not reality.

thanks for the confirmation.

Projection from a righty. Shocking

Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

So says you. Keynes' theories have been debunked by history.

 

[Wyatt earp]

All I figure what liberals want is The garden of Eden but time and time again when there way it is tried , it always ends up like Detroit or Cuba

 

[Care4all]

Show me the post where anyone on this thread said everyone should have the same material things? Now you claim we are saying everyone should have the same income

You are not lying to us are you?

I love these posts where extreme partisans ask insincere questions, ignore the responses that actually address their questions, and then proceed to tell you what you believe, instead.

Having been conditioned to see the world in black and white, they see anything that is not in 100% lockstep as representing the polar opposite.

Nope, the OP was a serious question and I wanted serious responses. I had my suspicions as to how you libs would respond and you confirmed them.

You libs have no idea what you really want. You deal in theory, emotion, and feeeeeeeeeeelings, not reality.

thanks for the confirmation.

Still looking for you to back your claim that liberals on this thread want everyone to have the same material things and income

Why don't you just admit you lied?

I gave you a list of posts that confirm what I said about you libs. Did you bother to read them? The only liar here is you.

I read them and they did not say anything that even resembled what you said they said....

 

[Dad2three]

just a mere handful did....it was the lowest participation in an election in 40 years.... all liberals have to do in 2016 is show up to vote, then your ass is grass again.... but you all know that, this is why the republicans always focus on reducing the numbers that vote, like gvt picture voter id laws and reducing the number of days early voting is available and reducing the hours of early voting, and reducing the number of voting machines in crowded democratic districts, and telling students they should stay home election day, and promoting that women shouldn't vote etc etc etc etc....

IT'S ALL ABOUT trying to STOP citizens from voting for Republicans....they know it is the only way they can win...

totally wrong. Are you so stupid that you think all the people who did not bother to vote would have voted dem?

I've never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the room, but I am not stupid.

No I don't think ALL would vote democratic, but the majority would, as history has shown repeatedly.

Were Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43 democrats? was Ike? There is no historical proof that a majority would vote democrat as you erroneously claimed. How many states did Reagan win over Mondale? Answer 49

Surely you don't think that Presidents are the only ones we vote for...?I mean, shoot, Liberal Massachusetts has voted for Republican Governors, which is like the president's position at the State level, several times.... does that make the majority in Massachusetts Republican/conservative?

You were talking about a sweep in congress and the Senate, were you not, or are you trying to change your position now and move the goal posts elsewhere?

Yes, history has repeatedly shown when more citizens come out to vote, more Democratic members are elected than Republican members....

OK, you made the claim twice, now provide the history. Or you could just admit that you made it up.

Paul Weyrich, "father" of the right-wing movement and co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, Moral Majority and various other groups tells his flock that he doesn't want people to vote. He complains that fellow Christians have "Goo-Goo Syndrome": Good Government.

"Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."

 

[Dad2three]

- Who has less anti-Semitism, US, Saudi Arabia, Greece, or Europe?
- Which Country has the best Environmental Regulations, US, Russia, India, Or China?
- Which Country is most tolerant of homosexuals? US, Saudi Arabia, Syria, India, or China?
- Which Country has the strongest Middle Class? US, Cuba, Venezuela, or Mexico?
- Which Country has the least slavery? US, China, India, or Kenya?


US is quite an Exceptional Country. Clearly, US is the most progressive Country in the World. Stop hating America, goddamnit!

False premises, distortions and lies, the ONLY thing right wingers EVER have

So Germany? Denmark? Norway? ETC lol

YOU WANT TO MAINLY COMPARE US TO 3RD WORLD NATIONS?



80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America Wealth Income and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.

Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

the gap between rich and poor has grown under obama. That is a FACT. Liberalism only helps the elites like Gruber, Obama, Oprah, and Soros.

Yes, now you know WHY that happened right? Hint unlike how conservatives 'think' thew US economy doesn't turn on a dime

Who was in office for 8 years and used 'job creator' policies that lost 1+ million PRIVATE sector jobs (plus another 4+ million in 2009)?

Dec 2007

The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush
The next president will have to deal with yet another crippling legacy of George W. Bush: the economy. A Nobel laureate, Joseph E. Stiglitz, sees a generation-long struggle to recoup.

The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush Vanity Fair

 

[rightwinger]

Are your reading skills that poor?

Show where any liberal advocated everyone have the same material skills or that the government take care of everyone including the whole world

Provide the post numbers

I don't know what you mean by 'material skills'. I never said that. Unless I missed it, it is quite clear that liberals want some form of taxation and rebates that effectively make all citizens equal in terms of income. Liberals want single payer healthcare, is that not wanting the govt to take care of everyone?

Show me the post where anyone on this thread said everyone should have the same material things? Now you claim we are saying everyone should have the same income

You are not lying to us are you?

nope, that underlying theme is in every liberal want list. But specifically see posts 163,172,175,176,190

Which of those posts comes remotely close to this claim?

all of them. The theme is very obvious. I cannot help it if your reading comprehension skills are those of a dead slug.

You claim that liberal responses were vague and then you come back with a Sarah Palin "all of them" you speak of a "theme"......point to a single reply that supports the theme that liberals want everyone to have the same material things or income

 

[rightwinger]

horseshit. when obama took office the national debt was 10T , it is now over 17T and will be over 20T by the time he leaves office. Obama will have added more to the national debt than all previous presidents COMBINED

Do you understand the difference between annual deficit and national debt?

You understand that most of the things that caused the trillion dollar deficits at the begining of Obama's term were put in their by Bush- Tax cuts for the rich, wars that no one was paying for, etc.

yep, and Bush's starting debt was inherited from Clinton and the failed dot com bubble. Whats your point?

Bush inherited a budget surplus and left a trillion dollar deficit

 

[Dad2three]

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far on this thread. I was very serious with the question in the OP. But so far not one liberal has been able to provide a specific cogent response. Billo came the closest.

It seems to me that liberals want everyone to have the same material things, for the government to care for everyone, and for everyone to love everyone else. The want a crime free nation that takes care of the poor and destitute of the entire world.

Simply stated, liberals live in a fantasy world where everyone puts flowers in their hair and dances around the may pole singing "I'd like to buy the world a coke" and "imagine".

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson



Every Republican administration in memory has created record deficits - passing that money along to the wealthy, where it remains in the bank accounts and out of the economy.

horseshit. when obama took office the national debt was 10T , it is now over 17T and will be over 20T by the time he leaves office. Obama will have added more to the national debt than all previous presidents COMBINED

Do you understand the difference between annual deficit and national debt?

So you are an ignorant tool? Got it

National Debt Oct 1, 2009 $11,920,519,164,319.42

YOU KNOW DAY ONE WHEN OBAMA'S FIRST YEAR F/Y BUDGET BEGAN? LIKE ALL PREZ'S?

Weird you don't know Ronnie TRIPLED the debt and both Bush's doubled it? Isn't THAT " added more to the national debt than all previous presidents COMBINED"

lol

 

[Dad2three]

It would help if people could learn at least enough of the basics of political science to realize liberalism is an ideology with certain tenets rather than just describing a person. This Manichaean insistence that people are divided into just two political groups is part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

People can call themselves "liberal" all they want, but unless they are operating from the standpoint of advancing liberal values, they are just left wing fundamentalists.

The shortest answer I can give here , though, is that liberalism places greater value on social justice than social order. The "conserve" in conservatism refers to the preservation of social order over social justice.

LOL!! That is ADORABLE!

Next, when they're asked to define "Social Justice" will come the obscurant rant which inevitably results in our learning that 'social justice' can't really be defined... that such means different things to different people, and how big a mistake it is to try and pigeon hole people and their respective tenets into narrow definitions... blah blah blah.

First, "Liberalism' is not an Ideology. Collectivism is an Ideology, within which Liberalism is mired... Left-think is an unprincipled, wholly unsustainable series of rationalizations, which serve no purpose beyond isolating the individual from all responsibility for their actions. The purpose of this is to separate those individuals from the rights which those responsibilities sustain. As the purpose of collectivism is to use the collective as a means to set people who are otherwise incapable of achieving material wealth, with material wealth.

Left-think rests entirely upon Relativism.

Relativism is the doctrine which holds that knowledge, truth, and morality exist only in relation to one's cultural, societal, historical and personal context, and, as such can never be the result of soundly reasoned moral absolutes.

It is through this deviation in reason that relativism axiomatically rejects the objectivity which is essential to truth.

And with truth being essential to trust and, both of those being critical to the establishment of a soundly reasoned morality, and because a soundly reasoned morality is essential to Justice... it becomes clear to reasonable people, that Relativism can never serve justice.

The Fundamental "Tenets" of Left-think are: Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... and that is why the Left seeks to serve 'social justice', because social justice SOUNDS like 'Justice'.

But it not only does not SERVE JUSTICE, "Social Justice" serves INJUSTICE. It is the anti-thesis of justice... thus it is a LIE.

The Left are, in every sense of the word: The Enemy of America. They are the advocates of Foreign Ideas which are Hostile to American Principle... and they are determined to separate Americans from any sense of recognition of those principles.

They are not reasonable people. They cannot be reasoned with... and there is no compromise that can be achieved which will ever render them anything less than a virus within our culture which must be destroyed, to the last adherent of such, if we're to survive as a culture.

And in terms of understand 'social justice' and its advocacy, that is all there is to it.

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson



The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

Liberal Dictionary:
===========================================
Greed - the desire to keep the money you have earned
compassion - coveting the money earned by others and taking it by force

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

 

[rightwinger]

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Do you spend 80% of your day fuming about this? lol

Fuming?

No

But I do question why we continue policies that only contribute to allowing the one percent to control 40% of the wealth

 

[candycorn]

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far on this thread. I was very serious with the question in the OP. But so far not one liberal has been able to provide a specific cogent response. Billo came the closest.

It seems to me that liberals want everyone to have the same material things, for the government to care for everyone, and for everyone to love everyone else. The want a crime free nation that takes care of the poor and destitute of the entire world.

Simply stated, liberals live in a fantasy world where everyone puts flowers in their hair and dances around the may pole singing "I'd like to buy the world a coke" and "imagine".

Comprehension isn't your strong point

 

[Dad2three]

horseshit. when obama took office the national debt was 10T , it is now over 17T and will be over 20T by the time he leaves office. Obama will have added more to the national debt than all previous presidents COMBINED

Do you understand the difference between annual deficit and national debt?

You understand that most of the things that caused the trillion dollar deficits at the begining of Obama's term were put in their by Bush- Tax cuts for the rich, wars that no one was paying for, etc.

yep, and Bush's starting debt was inherited from Clinton and the failed dot com bubble. Whats your point?

Why do Republicans always accuse the intelligent, accomplished people of promoting a left wing agenda? You can't expect them to promote the agenda purported by the"Stupid Party"!


We already know what economic policies work best for our country. Clinton knew that we had to cut spending and increase revenues. We had revenues of 20.6% of GDP and a surplus in 2000. Then something terrible happened, the Republicans gained complete control in 2001 and instead of sticking with what was working they decided that their ideology was more important. The debt has gone up $12 +trillion since then.

 

[Dad2three]

horseshit. when obama took office the national debt was 10T , it is now over 17T and will be over 20T by the time he leaves office. Obama will have added more to the national debt than all previous presidents COMBINED

Do you understand the difference between annual deficit and national debt?

You understand that most of the things that caused the trillion dollar deficits at the begining of Obama's term were put in their by Bush- Tax cuts for the rich, wars that no one was paying for, etc.

Yes, it's all BOOOOOOOOOOSH's fault. We've heard this whine about 10,000 times already.

Yes, policies like GUTTING revenues from 20%+ of GDP to below 15% (25%+ drop) don't matter, OR UNFUNDED wars or UNFUNDED Medicare expansions right? Or 'job creator' policies that failed? Or 'home ownership society' programs that Dubya cheered on, WITHOUT regulators on the beat?

 

[Dad2three]

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Do you spend 80% of your day fuming about this? lol

he probably does. He dreams of being Robin Hood.

I honestly never think about it, I'm too busy 'earning' my own wealth to worry about what somebody else is earning. FACT this country is the very definition of opportunity, its overflowing with opportunities. Too bad the left try to convince their base its hopeless.

The Republican sham of lower taxes and less regulation doesn't help anyone but the richest Americans and Big Business and kill jobs and opportunity for almost everyone, especially in the middle class and poor.

As Bill Maher has observed, the GOPers are good at pushing a falsehood until it's accepted as conventional wisdom

 

[bripat9643]

It would help if people could learn at least enough of the basics of political science to realize liberalism is an ideology with certain tenets rather than just describing a person. This Manichaean insistence that people are divided into just two political groups is part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

People can call themselves "liberal" all they want, but unless they are operating from the standpoint of advancing liberal values, they are just left wing fundamentalists.

The shortest answer I can give here , though, is that liberalism places greater value on social justice than social order. The "conserve" in conservatism refers to the preservation of social order over social justice.

LOL!! That is ADORABLE!

Next, when they're asked to define "Social Justice" will come the obscurant rant which inevitably results in our learning that 'social justice' can't really be defined... that such means different things to different people, and how big a mistake it is to try and pigeon hole people and their respective tenets into narrow definitions... blah blah blah.

First, "Liberalism' is not an Ideology. Collectivism is an Ideology, within which Liberalism is mired... Left-think is an unprincipled, wholly unsustainable series of rationalizations, which serve no purpose beyond isolating the individual from all responsibility for their actions. The purpose of this is to separate those individuals from the rights which those responsibilities sustain. As the purpose of collectivism is to use the collective as a means to set people who are otherwise incapable of achieving material wealth, with material wealth.

Left-think rests entirely upon Relativism.

Relativism is the doctrine which holds that knowledge, truth, and morality exist only in relation to one's cultural, societal, historical and personal context, and, as such can never be the result of soundly reasoned moral absolutes.

It is through this deviation in reason that relativism axiomatically rejects the objectivity which is essential to truth.

And with truth being essential to trust and, both of those being critical to the establishment of a soundly reasoned morality, and because a soundly reasoned morality is essential to Justice... it becomes clear to reasonable people, that Relativism can never serve justice.

The Fundamental "Tenets" of Left-think are: Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... and that is why the Left seeks to serve 'social justice', because social justice SOUNDS like 'Justice'.

But it not only does not SERVE JUSTICE, "Social Justice" serves INJUSTICE. It is the anti-thesis of justice... thus it is a LIE.

The Left are, in every sense of the word: The Enemy of America. They are the advocates of Foreign Ideas which are Hostile to American Principle... and they are determined to separate Americans from any sense of recognition of those principles.

They are not reasonable people. They cannot be reasoned with... and there is no compromise that can be achieved which will ever render them anything less than a virus within our culture which must be destroyed, to the last adherent of such, if we're to survive as a culture.

And in terms of understand 'social justice' and its advocacy, that is all there is to it.

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson



The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

Liberal Dictionary:
===========================================
Greed - the desire to keep the money you have earned
compassion - coveting the money earned by others and taking it by force

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Franklin wasn't right about everything. Your quote doesn't prove that libturds aren't greedy hypocrites.

 

[Dad2three]

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far on this thread. I was very serious with the question in the OP. But so far not one liberal has been able to provide a specific cogent response. Billo came the closest.

It seems to me that liberals want everyone to have the same material things, for the government to care for everyone, and for everyone to love everyone else. The want a crime free nation that takes care of the poor and destitute of the entire world.

Simply stated, liberals live in a fantasy world where everyone puts flowers in their hair and dances around the may pole singing "I'd like to buy the world a coke" and "imagine".

Are your reading skills that poor?

Show where any liberal advocated everyone have the same material skills or that the government take care of everyone including the whole world

Provide the post numbers

I don't know what you mean by 'material skills'. I never said that. Unless I missed it, it is quite clear that liberals want some form of taxation and rebates that effectively make all citizens equal in terms of income. Liberals want single payer healthcare, is that not wanting the govt to take care of everyone?

MORE BULLSHIT FROM YOU

"We grudge no man a fortune which represents his own power and sagacity, when exercised with entire regard to the welfare of his fellows."


Teddy Roosevelt spoke impassionedly about great wealth, saying that it is "not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.

which party controlled congress when those tax rate changes were made?

careful with your answer.

Carried interest? Cap gains? lol


GOP DUMBASS!!! Most of the changes were from the 1990's!