What do you remember about Sept 11, 2001?

[Samson]

Eh, no country exists in a vacuum and almost all countries are involved in other country's affairs. I suppose because it's stylish to be anti-American, other countries get a pass on being involved in the world while the USA gets their foreign policy called meddling.

I wonder why the Russians didn't fly planes into the WTC and the Pentagon, too, given your position. I wonder why the Louvre didn't get it, considering the Frogs were the ones who got Israel started in nuclear weapons.

Given that so many foreigners are close-minded- crazy, and just plain stupid, it sure would be nice to be able to be an island. Unfortunately, however, I have a grasp on reality.

And that is also part of it. Before 9/11 my limited experience with Islam was more a matter of interest and curiosity than anything else. I knew there was radical Islam from the limited attacks from our past (the Iran hostage crisis, the attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the attack on the Cole, the first attack on the World Trade Center, etc) but I saw these as more isolated incidents carried out by a few nuts. In the Israeli/Palestine conflict I gradually found myself siding with the Israelis when I realized they were hated not for what they did, but for who they are. But I still did not see Islam as my enemy or something to be wary of.

Now I do. Not the people. I still love my Muslim neighbors and I would still trust them with my house, my dog, my kids. But Islam overall I now see as a threat to human freedom and liberty and militant Islam will destroy whomever and whatever does not submit to it. And I hate that.

I'm there, too.

Funny, a long time ago I sided with the Palestinians and supporters. Then their actions made it become degree of wrongs, and now I most often side with Israel because of that.

heh...the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Despite whatever else might be "Fair," worldwide opinion is unfavorable toward Islam.

This is largely their own fault.

 

[rightwinger]

I support the theory that two planes were flown into the buildings and the buildings fell down

 

[WillowTree]

There is a poll posted here:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/conspiracy-theories/132891-which-9-11-theory-you-believe.html

thanks for participating.

ain't yer azz supposed to be over in the conspiracy theory? quit bothering us with this stupid shit whydonchya?

 

[Neser Boha]

Come to think of it, before 911 I actually believed that the terrorism was shunned by mainstream Islam, and going out of fashion as the world embarked on an era of peace, cooperation and prosperity..

I was almost not even surprised about what happened on 9/11. It just kind of made sense to me. You know ... the whole action--> reaction thing. Not that I thought it was right, not by a long shot. (For those that like to attack people for what they didn't actually say.)

How fascinating:

On the one hand Ozmar felt the world had become more peaceful.

On the other, Neser felt that the world was so full of turbulance, that 9/11 was unsurprising.

Apparently no two witnesses see the same thing the same way.

Or, at least, they watch different things: The February 1993 bombing in the basement of the WTC in 1993 is forgotten, as is the attack on the USS Cole seven years later in October 2000.

Right.

Or the Marine barracks. Or Pan Am flight 103. Or TWA flight 847. Or TWA 707. Or Black September highjackings. Etc.

But, recalling all that interferes with being stylish.

Zooom ... right over your yead.

 

[Ringel05]

And that is also part of it. Before 9/11 my limited experience with Islam was more a matter of interest and curiosity than anything else. I knew there was radical Islam from the limited attacks from our past (the Iran hostage crisis, the attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the attack on the Cole, the first attack on the World Trade Center, etc) but I saw these as more isolated incidents carried out by a few nuts. In the Israeli/Palestine conflict I gradually found myself siding with the Israelis when I realized they were hated not for what they did, but for who they are. But I still did not see Islam as my enemy or something to be wary of.

Now I do. Not the people. I still love my Muslim neighbors and I would still trust them with my house, my dog, my kids. But Islam overall I now see as a threat to human freedom and liberty and militant Islam will destroy whomever and whatever does not submit to it. And I hate that.

I'm there, too.

Funny, a long time ago I sided with the Palestinians and supporters. Then their actions made it become degree of wrongs, and now I most often side with Israel because of that.

heh...the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Despite whatever else might be "Fair," worldwide opinion is unfavorable toward Islam.

This is largely their own fault.

No you have it all wrong! It's old, frustrated white male Christians who are to blame. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[Samson]

Come to think of it, before 911 I actually believed that the terrorism was shunned by mainstream Islam, and going out of fashion as the world embarked on an era of peace, cooperation and prosperity..

I was almost not even surprised about what happened on 9/11. It just kind of made sense to me. You know ... the whole action--> reaction thing. Not that I thought it was right, not by a long shot. (For those that like to attack people for what they didn't actually say.)

How fascinating:

On the one hand Ozmar felt the world had become more peaceful.

On the other, Neser felt that the world was so full of turbulance, that 9/11 was unsurprising.

Apparently no two witnesses see the same thing the same way.

Or, at least, they watch different things: The February 1993 bombing in the basement of the WTC in 1993 is forgotten, as is the attack on the USS Cole seven years later in October 2000.

Right.

Or the Marine barracks. Or Pan Am flight 103. Or TWA flight 847. Or TWA 707. Or Black September highjackings. Etc.

But, recalling all that interferes with being stylish.

You've left out a couple of incidents (Spanish train, English Airport, nightclub in South Pacific, and Phillipino Islamic Terror....) but the pattern of Islamic Terrorist attacks is clearly established.

What is not clear is:

1. the rational
2. the culpability of Islamic nations

Every time I've asked for a rational, or why Islam cannot condemn terrorism without the caveat that "It was justified, based on how we feel," I receive the same amazing response: We don't need to defend our actions, or apologise for them (in fact, apology = guilt).

My conclusion is that Islam needs to have something to hold itself together as the modern world evolves. If they use Israel, "Western Cultural Encroachment," or hatred of women drivers, then so be it.

It doesn't need to be any more rational that Kristalnach, or the Inquistion.

By stylish I must assume you're referring to those who would argue that the US response to an irrational situation should be rational.

 

[Eightball]

Up after a very short nap. Waiting by the phone to see if my neighbor will need a ride to the hospital.

Since 9/11 I pack differently and dress differently when I fly. I am more conscious of unattended luggage or packages or vehicles that look out of place. I am more uneasy in parking garages under tall buildings. I am more careful about what I have on my person when I attend sporting events or go to the courthouse. Like others I profile more. I trust less. I still feel anger that evil people were able to hurt us and make us grieve and make us afraid and that they feel proud and triumphant about that. I hate that I can't shake the feeling that the stupid mosque near ground zero will be seen as a monument to that 'triumph' and I hate feeling that way.

Unattended Luggage:

Interestingly, me and the wife's last airlines flight back in May 2010 out of San Jose International on Southwest Airlines we had an "unattended luggage" incident.

Can't believe this passenger on our flight would do this, but the guy sets his one piece of luggage down in one part of the waiting area, and then goes and sits down way over on the other side of the departure-waiting-area.

Some airport security guy shouts out to all of us, "Who's luggage is this!". The owner of the luggage looked like he slept in his clothes, appeared to be of Middle Eastern decent, had a week-old dark beard, and just took his sweet time going over to the airport official and claiming ownership of the luggage.

The airport official.........gave the guy a royal chewing-out and warning that if he didn't abide with the rules about staying with your carry-on luggage that he'd be in a heap of trouble.

The passenger didn't even seem to be that impressed or surprised or embarrassed by the incident.

After that, when we stood in the Southwest "cattle line" before boarding, every eye was on that guy as he stood in line with us.
******
In all fairness, we should continue to roust elderly ladies, and so we show to the world "fairness" or P.C.. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I was running things, that guy would have not made it on our flight at all!!!!!!!!!!!!! No 3 strikes and you're out.......This passenger totally failed the fundamental principle of current, air travel security/responsibility.
******
Profiling?: Heck yeah!!!! Bring it on!
******
As for telling the world that we will not be at war with Islam(President Obama)........Isn't that basically what we are involved in right now; at war? The folks that want to destroy us or subjugate us are doing this based on their religion.........Islam.......Are the misinterpretting their Quran.............Actually, No.

The basic tenents of Islam's ultimate aim is Sharia Law worldwide......That is theocratic government, and is the antithesis of our American Republic's founding principles/laws.

What I can't understand is how the "far left" in this country will give a "bye" to this dangerous extremism, and go "whole hog" against a "manger scene" displayed in a park, or a WW1 Cross out in the Mojave Desert?

 

[Samson]

I'm there, too.

Funny, a long time ago I sided with the Palestinians and supporters. Then their actions made it become degree of wrongs, and now I most often side with Israel because of that.

heh...the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Despite whatever else might be "Fair," worldwide opinion is unfavorable toward Islam.

This is largely their own fault.

No you have it all wrong! It's old, frustrated white male Christians who are to blame. Didn't you get the memo?

That memo is dated June 8th, 1869.

Are we still meeting at Ye Old Hooters on the first Friday of every month?

 

[Si modo]

How fascinating:

On the one hand Ozmar felt the world had become more peaceful.

On the other, Neser felt that the world was so full of turbulance, that 9/11 was unsurprising.

Apparently no two witnesses see the same thing the same way.

Or, at least, they watch different things: The February 1993 bombing in the basement of the WTC in 1993 is forgotten, as is the attack on the USS Cole seven years later in October 2000.

Right.

Or the Marine barracks. Or Pan Am flight 103. Or TWA flight 847. Or TWA 707. Or Black September highjackings. Etc.

But, recalling all that interferes with being stylish.

You've left out a couple of incidents (Spanish train, English Airport, nightclub in South Pacific, and Phillipino Islamic Terror....) but the pattern of Islamic Terrorist attacks is clearly established.

What is not clear is:

1. the rational
2. the culpability of Islamic nations

Every time I've asked for a rational, or why Islam cannot condemn terrorism without the caveat that "It was justified, based on how we feel," I receive the same amazing response: We don't need to defend our actions, or apologise for them (in fact, apology = guilt).

My conclusion is that Islam needs to have something to hold itself together as the modern world evolves. If they use Israel, "Western Cultural Encroachment," or hatred of women drivers, then so be it.

It doesn't need to be any more rational that Kristalnach, or the Inquistion.

By stylish I must assume you're referring to those who would argue that the US response to an irrational situation should be rational.

I go with explaining the Muslim rational (justified, how we feel, yada, yada, yada) as their convenient tenet that killing is not murder iffin the dead are not innocent and only Muslims get to define innocence. Convenient for the Muslim conscience.

Nah, stylish with respect to calling foreign policy foreign policy for all other nations but meddling for the USA. It requires little thought, but given those who I see use it, that is not surprising to me.

 

[Ringel05]

heh...the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Despite whatever else might be "Fair," worldwide opinion is unfavorable toward Islam.

This is largely their own fault.

No you have it all wrong! It's old, frustrated white male Christians who are to blame. Didn't you get the memo?

That memo is dated June 8th, 1869.

Are we still meeting at Ye Old Hooters on the first Friday of every month?

Yup and all the waitresses are at least 50.....

 

[Samson]

Right.

Or the Marine barracks. Or Pan Am flight 103. Or TWA flight 847. Or TWA 707. Or Black September highjackings. Etc.

But, recalling all that interferes with being stylish.

You've left out a couple of incidents (Spanish train, English Airport, nightclub in South Pacific, and Phillipino Islamic Terror....) but the pattern of Islamic Terrorist attacks is clearly established.

What is not clear is:

1. the rational
2. the culpability of Islamic nations

Every time I've asked for a rational, or why Islam cannot condemn terrorism without the caveat that "It was justified, based on how we feel," I receive the same amazing response: We don't need to defend our actions, or apologise for them (in fact, apology = guilt).

My conclusion is that Islam needs to have something to hold itself together as the modern world evolves. If they use Israel, "Western Cultural Encroachment," or hatred of women drivers, then so be it.

It doesn't need to be any more rational that Kristalnach, or the Inquistion.

By stylish I must assume you're referring to those who would argue that the US response to an irrational situation should be rational.

I go with explaining the Muslim rational (justified, how we feel, yada, yada, yada) as their convenient tenet that killing is not murder iffin the dead are not innocent and only Muslims get to define innocence. Convenient for the Muslim conscience.

Nah, stylish with respect to calling foreign policy foreign policy for all other nations but meddling for the USA. It requires little thought, but given those who I see use it, that is not surprising to me.

I take it then that you don't trust the U.N. to acheive a lasting peace in the middle east?

It could happen ANY DAY!!!!

 

[Samson]

No you have it all wrong! It's old, frustrated white male Christians who are to blame. Didn't you get the memo?

That memo is dated June 8th, 1869.

Are we still meeting at Ye Old Hooters on the first Friday of every month?

Yup and all the waitresses are at least 50.....

No wonder we're frustrated old white guys.

 

[Foxfyre]

Up after a very short nap. Waiting by the phone to see if my neighbor will need a ride to the hospital.

Since 9/11 I pack differently and dress differently when I fly. I am more conscious of unattended luggage or packages or vehicles that look out of place. I am more uneasy in parking garages under tall buildings. I am more careful about what I have on my person when I attend sporting events or go to the courthouse. Like others I profile more. I trust less. I still feel anger that evil people were able to hurt us and make us grieve and make us afraid and that they feel proud and triumphant about that. I hate that I can't shake the feeling that the stupid mosque near ground zero will be seen as a monument to that 'triumph' and I hate feeling that way.

Unattended Luggage:

Interestingly, me and the wife's last airlines flight back in May 2010 out of San Jose International on Southwest Airlines we had an "unattended luggage" incident.

Can't believe this passenger on our flight would do this, but the guy sets his one piece of luggage down in one part of the waiting area, and then goes and sits down way over on the other side of the departure-waiting-area.

Some airport security guy shouts out to all of us, "Who's luggage is this!". The owner of the luggage looked like he slept in his clothes, appeared to be of Middle Eastern decent, had a week-old dark beard, and just took his sweet time going over to the airport official and claiming ownership of the luggage.

The airport official.........gave the guy a royal chewing-out and warning that if he didn't abide with the rules about staying with your carry-on luggage that he'd be in a heap of trouble.

The passenger didn't even seem to be that impressed or surprised or embarrassed by the incident.

After that, when we stood in the Southwest "cattle line" before boarding, every eye was on that guy as he stood in line with us.
******
In all fairness, we should continue to roust elderly ladies, and so we show to the world "fairness" or P.C.. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I was running things, that guy would have not made it on our flight at all!!!!!!!!!!!!! No 3 strikes and you're out.......This passenger totally failed the fundamental principle of current, air travel security/responsibility.
******
Profiling?: Heck yeah!!!! Bring it on!
******
As for telling the world that we will not be at war with Islam(President Obama)........Isn't that basically what we are involved in right now; at war? The folks that want to destroy us or subjugate us are doing this based on their religion.........Islam.......Are the misinterpretting their Quran.............Actually, No.

The basic tenents of Islam's ultimate aim is Sharia Law worldwide......That is theocratic government, and is the antithesis of our American Republic's founding principles/laws.

What I can't understand is how the "far left" in this country will give a "bye" to this dangerous extremism, and go "whole hog" against a "manger scene" displayed in a park, or a WW1 Cross out in the Mojave Desert?

In my opinion, unattended luggage should be confiscated and removed from premises immediately. On Seot, 10, 2001, I wouldn't have given that a second thought.

One of President Bush's early addresses to the nation post 9/11 was to assure the world that we were not at war with Islam. But you (and others) raise an interesting point of view. I think that we cannot ignore that the more Muslims are present in an area, the more they demand concessions to their faith and the less freedom and liberty there is for the people. And yet until Islam has all the control, there will be deadly violence.

So given this, how much should we resist making concessions to demands from Islam? How much do we increase the danger to ourselves when we do?

And yes, the squishy rationale from some that we should not profile and think poorly of Islam simply because there has been attack after deadly attack--we aren't supposed to judge based on the behavior of a 'few fundamentalist radical nuts.'

The same people have no qualms, however, about condemning all of Christianity based on the behavior of a few fundamentalist radical nuts even when large numbers of innocents are not targeted and there is no intent to commit mass murder.

Edit: I hope this isn't seen as politicking because it is one of the realities in the aftermath of 9/11. I think for most of us who watched burning bodies jump to their death that day and knew how many more didn't get out, being at peace with the world or sometimes with each other isn't an option for many of us any more.

And, other than the horrendous loss of life, pain, suffering and grief, that is the terrible legacy of 9/11 for me. I think for many.

 

[Si modo]

You've left out a couple of incidents (Spanish train, English Airport, nightclub in South Pacific, and Phillipino Islamic Terror....) but the pattern of Islamic Terrorist attacks is clearly established.

What is not clear is:

1. the rational
2. the culpability of Islamic nations

Every time I've asked for a rational, or why Islam cannot condemn terrorism without the caveat that "It was justified, based on how we feel," I receive the same amazing response: We don't need to defend our actions, or apologise for them (in fact, apology = guilt).

My conclusion is that Islam needs to have something to hold itself together as the modern world evolves. If they use Israel, "Western Cultural Encroachment," or hatred of women drivers, then so be it.

It doesn't need to be any more rational that Kristalnach, or the Inquistion.

By stylish I must assume you're referring to those who would argue that the US response to an irrational situation should be rational.

I go with explaining the Muslim rational (justified, how we feel, yada, yada, yada) as their convenient tenet that killing is not murder iffin the dead are not innocent and only Muslims get to define innocence. Convenient for the Muslim conscience.

Nah, stylish with respect to calling foreign policy foreign policy for all other nations but meddling for the USA. It requires little thought, but given those who I see use it, that is not surprising to me.

I take it then that you don't trust the U.N. to acheive a lasting peace in the middle east?

It could happen ANY DAY!!!!

I hear they are writing another letter to some nation about it. That should do the trick. I hear 2,634 is the magic number for letters from the UN about it, doncha think?

 

[noose4]

I was at work in lower Manhattan getting ready to start the day we left the office and saw a bunch of paper fluttering in the air, we asked a traffic cop what happened and were told a plane had hit the WTC we proceeded to walk up Broadway to see what happened, we were watching the first tower burn from Cedar and Broadway when we heard a very loud explosion. I ran a few blocks and stood near the Stock Exchange, I called my sister and asked what was going on and she said they thought the ATC was having a problem but I realized we were under attack and figured being near the Stock Exchange was not a good place to be. Myself and a few co workers decided to meet on Water Street and Maiden lane to walk uptown, that is where I was standing when the first tower collapsed and I saw what looked like a tidal wave of dust coming at me and I preceeded to run towards the East River and then walk uptown. When I got to the lower eastside I heard this sound like Godzilla's roar, it was the second tower collapsing.

 

[Avatar4321]

Pre 9/11 I knew people died every day in many a manner, after 9/11 I knew people continued to die every day in many a manner.

Very profound bro

 

[Samson]

I go with explaining the Muslim rational (justified, how we feel, yada, yada, yada) as their convenient tenet that killing is not murder iffin the dead are not innocent and only Muslims get to define innocence. Convenient for the Muslim conscience.

Nah, stylish with respect to calling foreign policy foreign policy for all other nations but meddling for the USA. It requires little thought, but given those who I see use it, that is not surprising to me.

I take it then that you don't trust the U.N. to acheive a lasting peace in the middle east?

It could happen ANY DAY!!!!

I hear they are writing another letter to some nation about it. That should do the trick. I hear 2,634 is the majic number for letters from the UN about it, doncha think?

Well, if you're just goning to count letters sent to nations on Earth, I suppose so.....but to be fair, we'll need the opinion of the Klingons, and the Romulans, and until then the jury could still be out.

 

[xotoxi]

THE UNOFFICIAL HOME PAGE OF FDNY



A NEVER ENDING STORY






All 343 911wtc Killed at the World Trade Center September 11, 2001



THE UNOFFICIAL HOME PAGE OF FDNY New York City Fire Department

Just a casual observation, but upon looking at the photos, I notice not one woman, and very few Black firefighters. I would have expected differently from such a diverse city as NYC.

I was noticing that the photos looked either like they were from the 1970s or like they were mugshots.

 

[Si modo]

I take it then that you don't trust the U.N. to acheive a lasting peace in the middle east?

It could happen ANY DAY!!!!

I hear they are writing another letter to some nation about it. That should do the trick. I hear 2,634 is the majic number for letters from the UN about it, doncha think?

Well, if you're just goning to count letters sent to nations on Earth, I suppose so.....but to be fair, we'll need the opinion of the Klingons, and the Romulans, and until then the jury could still be out.

QaQ chugh [you're] [just] [goning] Daq [count] [letters] ngeHta' Daq tuqpu' Daq tera' jIH [suppose] vaj 'ach Daq taH [fair] [we'll] [need] [the] [opinion] vo' [the] [Klingons] 'ej [the] [Romulans] 'ej [until] vaj [the] [jury] laH vIHHa' taH pa'

Klingon Translator and Dictionary - KLV

 

[Si modo]

THE UNOFFICIAL HOME PAGE OF FDNY



A NEVER ENDING STORY






All 343 911wtc Killed at the World Trade Center September 11, 2001



THE UNOFFICIAL HOME PAGE OF FDNY New York City Fire Department

Just a casual observation, but upon looking at the photos, I notice not one woman, and very few Black firefighters. I would have expected differently from such a diverse city as NYC.

I was noticing that the photos looked either like they were from the 1970s or like they were mugshots.

Just a bit of trivia, Fr. Mychal Judge, Chaplain was the first victim identified from the 9/11 fatal casualites.