What Happened to Church?

[BreezeWood]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

.
their awful book of forgeries the christian bible, their christ is their entitlement that prevents them from attaining the potential to free their Spirits while alive.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

Beautiful story, but I'm not getting the connection to having god connect with you. Saying that I wouldn't understand is a cop-out, you either have something or you don't, you don't seem to, you admitted as much. Seems kind of weird though to believe in something you don't know is even there.

The definition of "cop-out" isn't "That isn't the way I want it to be". Some things really CAN'T be explained sufficiently to replace the actual experience.

Look at it this way. I've never been in space, outside of Earth's atmosphere. Other people have. They've spoken about it, written about it, described it. But they will also tell you that none of that can really do the experience justice, or really make you understand what it's truly like if you haven't been out there yourself. Is it a "cop-out" for them to state that very simple fact?

As for the "admission" you think you've discovered, I never said anything of the sort, nor will I in the continuation you didn't bother to wait for before leaping to, "Aha! I am going to claim to have heard what I determined I was going to hear, no matter what, before you ever started speaking!"

You asked, and I'm answering. Whether or not you make the effort to hear what I'm saying, or just sit there and hear what you want to hear regardless of anything I say, is entirely up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

.
their awful book of forgeries the christian bible, their christ is their entitlement that prevents them from attaining the potential to free their Spirits while alive.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

 

[BreezeWood]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

- perfectly pertainant to the thread topic and an honest appraisal. more so had they read any of your posts.

 

[Taz]

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

Beautiful story, but I'm not getting the connection to having god connect with you. Saying that I wouldn't understand is a cop-out, you either have something or you don't, you don't seem to, you admitted as much. Seems kind of weird though to believe in something you don't know is even there.

The definition of "cop-out" isn't "That isn't the way I want it to be". Some things really CAN'T be explained sufficiently to replace the actual experience.

Look at it this way. I've never been in space, outside of Earth's atmosphere. Other people have. They've spoken about it, written about it, described it. But they will also tell you that none of that can really do the experience justice, or really make you understand what it's truly like if you haven't been out there yourself. Is it a "cop-out" for them to state that very simple fact?

As for the "admission" you think you've discovered, I never said anything of the sort, nor will I in the continuation you didn't bother to wait for before leaping to, "Aha! I am going to claim to have heard what I determined I was going to hear, no matter what, before you ever started speaking!"

You asked, and I'm answering. Whether or not you make the effort to hear what I'm saying, or just sit there and hear what you want to hear regardless of anything I say, is entirely up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But outer space is something real, that you can see and float around in, and they've sent pictures back, and videos... samples of asteroids... went to Mars... Has ANYONE ever had such a real experience with god?
And you said that you had no road to Damascus moment, which I took as you've had no substantial connect with god. Was I wrong?

 

[hadit]

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

Beautiful story, but I'm not getting the connection to having god connect with you. Saying that I wouldn't understand is a cop-out, you either have something or you don't, you don't seem to, you admitted as much. Seems kind of weird though to believe in something you don't know is even there.

The definition of "cop-out" isn't "That isn't the way I want it to be". Some things really CAN'T be explained sufficiently to replace the actual experience.

Look at it this way. I've never been in space, outside of Earth's atmosphere. Other people have. They've spoken about it, written about it, described it. But they will also tell you that none of that can really do the experience justice, or really make you understand what it's truly like if you haven't been out there yourself. Is it a "cop-out" for them to state that very simple fact?

As for the "admission" you think you've discovered, I never said anything of the sort, nor will I in the continuation you didn't bother to wait for before leaping to, "Aha! I am going to claim to have heard what I determined I was going to hear, no matter what, before you ever started speaking!"

You asked, and I'm answering. Whether or not you make the effort to hear what I'm saying, or just sit there and hear what you want to hear regardless of anything I say, is entirely up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But outer space is something real, that you can see and float around in, and they've sent pictures back, and videos... samples of asteroids... went to Mars... Has ANYONE ever had such a real experience with god?
And you said that you had no road to Damascus moment, which I took as you've had no substantial connect with god. Was I wrong?

Define real. Is it real if the experience is internal and personal? Yes it is, but it can't be replicated in a lab, so your ilk insists it's not real. The best evidence of all is the lives that are changed.

 

[Taz]

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

Beautiful story, but I'm not getting the connection to having god connect with you. Saying that I wouldn't understand is a cop-out, you either have something or you don't, you don't seem to, you admitted as much. Seems kind of weird though to believe in something you don't know is even there.

The definition of "cop-out" isn't "That isn't the way I want it to be". Some things really CAN'T be explained sufficiently to replace the actual experience.

Look at it this way. I've never been in space, outside of Earth's atmosphere. Other people have. They've spoken about it, written about it, described it. But they will also tell you that none of that can really do the experience justice, or really make you understand what it's truly like if you haven't been out there yourself. Is it a "cop-out" for them to state that very simple fact?

As for the "admission" you think you've discovered, I never said anything of the sort, nor will I in the continuation you didn't bother to wait for before leaping to, "Aha! I am going to claim to have heard what I determined I was going to hear, no matter what, before you ever started speaking!"

You asked, and I'm answering. Whether or not you make the effort to hear what I'm saying, or just sit there and hear what you want to hear regardless of anything I say, is entirely up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But outer space is something real, that you can see and float around in, and they've sent pictures back, and videos... samples of asteroids... went to Mars... Has ANYONE ever had such a real experience with god?
And you said that you had no road to Damascus moment, which I took as you've had no substantial connect with god. Was I wrong?

Define real. Is it real if the experience is internal and personal? Yes it is, but it can't be replicated in a lab, so your ilk insists it's not real. The best evidence of all is the lives that are changed.

Sober up and your life will change for sure.

"Define real".

 

[BreezeWood]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

.
their awful book of forgeries the christian bible, their christ is their entitlement that prevents them from attaining the potential to free their Spirits while alive.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

What Happened to Church


- in case you have forgotten the thread title it's there as a reminder.

what happened primarily occurred in the 4th century when they circumvented the Religion of Antiquity and misconstrued the events of the 1st century to write their christian bible creating a christ and proclaimed their version to be authentic over all others. and have since that time persecuted and victimized whoever would make the necessary changes to expose and rectify their deliberate errors that continues to this day.

odd the OP is complaining about the very subject matter to insinuate they are themselves not "hating"{sic} their own religion.

or that groups they personally do not like, leftist would be any different through the Religion of Antiquity than themselves and not welcome in "their" church only reinforces the thread title the OP is guilty of herself.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

If you are going to confront God that's sinful. For starters.

Secondly, sin was not in God's plan, but He did give His first humans--really all of us--free will. Why? Otherwise they are robots. God is love. You cannot demand love or it's not love. You know this. I know this. He could have made automatons but then they wouldn't have loved Him. So He put them in the garden and gave them one command: do not eat of this fruit. Everything else is yours. Just don't do THIS.

It was a choice. They made the wrong choice. So they had to leave...sinful. And so we are to this day.

When God fully reveals Himself to all of us, it is ALL of our last chance. That is the end of the world, Taz. Then it's all over. Now, sometimes people feel that He has revealed Himself to us individually and that's different.

PS Up above I said that "sin was not in the plan". Sin was not God's perfect plan, but yes, He knew it would happen. There is a great deal of tension between omniscience and omnipotence and a great deal of things we just don't know. I'm okay with that. I figure if I could know all the answers, God wouldn't be God.

I don't want a God as small as my brain. Do you?

Why is it sinful to want to meet god? That doesn't make any sense.
So god made a creation that he knew he was going to lose control over. So why does it now demand that we worship it? And I'm paying for a fruit someone ate 6000 years ago? That makes no sense either.
So why would it be the end of the world if god revealed itself? Did you read that in a book or did He tell you that Himself?

1. You want to meet Him so you can bend Him to *your* will--so you can tell HIM how it should be.

2. He hasn't lost control. You've really lost the plot here.

3. It's not just a fruit. Do you not know Genesis? I figured you did, it was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In short, Adam and Eve were tempted to want to be like God, knowing more of good and evil. Sound familiar?

4. It's in Revelation and other books. Have you read ANY of the Bible?

 

[SweetSue92]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

What did you drop in the collection plate?

Yep and with that I'm done. I did try though.

 

[hadit]

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

Beautiful story, but I'm not getting the connection to having god connect with you. Saying that I wouldn't understand is a cop-out, you either have something or you don't, you don't seem to, you admitted as much. Seems kind of weird though to believe in something you don't know is even there.

The definition of "cop-out" isn't "That isn't the way I want it to be". Some things really CAN'T be explained sufficiently to replace the actual experience.

Look at it this way. I've never been in space, outside of Earth's atmosphere. Other people have. They've spoken about it, written about it, described it. But they will also tell you that none of that can really do the experience justice, or really make you understand what it's truly like if you haven't been out there yourself. Is it a "cop-out" for them to state that very simple fact?

As for the "admission" you think you've discovered, I never said anything of the sort, nor will I in the continuation you didn't bother to wait for before leaping to, "Aha! I am going to claim to have heard what I determined I was going to hear, no matter what, before you ever started speaking!"

You asked, and I'm answering. Whether or not you make the effort to hear what I'm saying, or just sit there and hear what you want to hear regardless of anything I say, is entirely up to you. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But outer space is something real, that you can see and float around in, and they've sent pictures back, and videos... samples of asteroids... went to Mars... Has ANYONE ever had such a real experience with god?
And you said that you had no road to Damascus moment, which I took as you've had no substantial connect with god. Was I wrong?

Define real. Is it real if the experience is internal and personal? Yes it is, but it can't be replicated in a lab, so your ilk insists it's not real. The best evidence of all is the lives that are changed.

Sober up and your life will change for sure.

"Define real".

Like I said, you really don't want to see the evidence, so you won't, even though it's right in front of you.

 

[hadit]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

.
their awful book of forgeries the christian bible, their christ is their entitlement that prevents them from attaining the potential to free their Spirits while alive.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

What Happened to Church


- in case you have forgotten the thread title it's there as a reminder.

what happened primarily occurred in the 4th century when they circumvented the Religion of Antiquity and misconstrued the events of the 1st century to write their christian bible creating a christ and proclaimed their version to be authentic over all others. and have since that time persecuted and victimized whoever would make the necessary changes to expose and rectify their deliberate errors that continues to this day.

odd the OP is complaining about the very subject matter to insinuate they are themselves not "hating"{sic} their own religion.

or that groups they personally do not like, leftist would be any different through the Religion of Antiquity than themselves and not welcome in "their" church only reinforces the thread title the OP is guilty of herself.

What happened to the church within our lifetimes.? That's the topic.

 

[SweetSue92]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

Eh. No church is perfect, I can tell you that. But generally Americans have a romanticized view of Amish and Mennonites. In reality, they can be quite legalistic. The Mennonites less so, but the Amish very much so. I mean these are people who "shun" their own family if they don't live up to their legalistic lifestyle, such things as wearing the right clothing. For compare and contrast, I am an evangelical Christian who is opposed to gay marriage and yet have come nowhere NEAR to "shunning" the gay members of both sides of my family, me and my husband's.

But people are easily swayed. Make some nice furniture, cook some nice pies, wear a cap on your head I guess, there it is.

 

[SweetSue92]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

I grew up in Mennonite country. They're regular Christians just like the rest of us. Flawed, just like the rest of us.

Believe it.

 

[SweetSue92]

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

That's why I always ask what kind of proof someone will accept. Will they accept something that only they can verify or do they pin their eternity on what someone else tells them is true? IOW, God does something dramatic in front of Taz, but no one else is around. Does Taz acknowledge God's existence, or does doubt creep in and Taz deny personal experience?

We've had personal experience with God, experience that others did not share.

I actually had an online conversation once with someone who insisted UFO abductions were for real because he believed the stories told by a handful of people, yet refused to accept the stories of untold millions of people throughout recorded human history who testified about their encounters with God. He didn't see the disconnect.

I call it the "do a trick" Gambit, in which the sceptics insist that God has to do a magic trick for them to believe, yet they don't realize that He would have to continue doing magic tricks over and over again because any human who didn't witness the original one could simply deny it ever happened.

I simply don't consider it my job to "prove" anything. I can discuss God and religion all day - and I do - but His existence isn't something that can be proved by words and arguments and debates. It isn't a matter of spelling out an equation. He proves it when and how He chooses. I can, and will, tell people about my own experiences with it, but it's not something anyone can understand without having experienced it themselves.

Amen sister--Romans 1. They are "without excuse".

 

[BreezeWood]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

.
their awful book of forgeries the christian bible, their christ is their entitlement that prevents them from attaining the potential to free their Spirits while alive.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

.

You and your new girlfriend are welcome to go start your own thread on "We're so wonderful for hating Christians and telling them repeatedly".

This is not that thread.

What Happened to Church


- in case you have forgotten the thread title it's there as a reminder.

what happened primarily occurred in the 4th century when they circumvented the Religion of Antiquity and misconstrued the events of the 1st century to write their christian bible creating a christ and proclaimed their version to be authentic over all others. and have since that time persecuted and victimized whoever would make the necessary changes to expose and rectify their deliberate errors that continues to this day.

odd the OP is complaining about the very subject matter to insinuate they are themselves not "hating"{sic} their own religion.

or that groups they personally do not like, leftist would be any different through the Religion of Antiquity than themselves and not welcome in "their" church only reinforces the thread title the OP is guilty of herself.

What happened to the church within our lifetimes.? That's the topic.

.

What happened to the church within our lifetimes.?
That's the topic.

it's really, why it has not remained the same but continues to evolve, if you were being honest ... and there are may answers to the OP's assertion.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

and thus find worship of another especially nauseating and stupid

You are quite skilled at lying to yourself. Those ideas you regurgitated are nauseating by any objective standard. This is why you have to delude yourself and make up fake personalities to justify your nauseating defense of those ideas.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The best evidence of all is the lives that are changed.

That not evidence for the truth of outrageous,magical claims. That is evidence of the malleability of human psychology.

 

[james bond]

I found a new church recently in my neighborhood with live Christian band on stage, lyrics posted on large screen tvs throughout the church, wi-fi, youtubes, live full baptisms, barbecues, bible study by age and interest, small groups on welcoming members and explaining how the church works. The only part that is hard for me is the 7 am Bible study on Saturday. Am a night person than morning. Also, the communion is grape juice and wafer than actual wine and bread. Oh well, can't have everything.

 

[hadit]

The best evidence of all is the lives that are changed.

That not evidence for the truth of outrageous,magical claims. That is evidence of the malleability of human psychology.

Sure. Put a label on it so you can safely tuck it away.