What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

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Yep. I've known a lot of Mexican workers. I've never known them to go around telling people they are here illegally. Particularly if they are working. I have no idea which are and are not legal. Apparently Joe does, he knows them from his Archie Bunker stereotyping

Well, no, we knew that because they barely spoke English and they'd go back to Mexico after a certain amount of time.

But I'm sure you make sure that you studiously "don't know'. That's the point, we all pretend we "don't know' when we get a benefit.
Hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers are here legally on temporary work permits. Most barely speak English and they're all going back to Mexico, so I don't think that's a good criteria for determining legality.

I know Mexicans that are in the country both legally and illegally. There is no way to tell who is legal and who isn't without papers.
 
This is actually incorrect.

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

And that one might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s in the country ‘illegally’ – due process must be first afforded before a determination is made by an immigration court that an undocumented immigrant is not entitled to asylum and refugee status, and entered the country absent authorization.

This illustrates the tragedy of Republicans hostile to immigration reform.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Of course, Republicans oppose immigration reform because of their unwarranted fear of immigration and wrongheaded animosity toward immigrants.
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.
Incorrect
Forms of visual observation as well as conduct are sufficient for arrest. You are criminal by your own act, no court Must declare you so
A guy pointing a gun does not go to court first and become arrested second
Being arrested does not make you guilty of anything. Without a fair trial, victims can have no confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses. It doesn't matter whether the accused is a kid sneaking across the border or someone accused of a mass murder, the principals are the same and violating those principals will lead to the same results.

You have illegally gained access to this country without any court having to so “certify”. What you are engaging in is semantics and an element of that is emotionalism. Those rebutting you are engaging in facts and not pretzel twists.
 
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.
Incorrect
Forms of visual observation as well as conduct are sufficient for arrest. You are criminal by your own act, no court Must declare you so
A guy pointing a gun does not go to court first and become arrested second
Being arrested does not make you guilty of anything. Without a fair trial, victims can have no confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses. It doesn't matter whether the accused is a kid sneaking across the border or someone accused of a mass murder, the principals are the same and violating those principals will lead to the same results.

That's just stupid. You either are or are not in the country legally and if you are you can prove it.

You can't provide unequivocal documentation that you didn't commit a crime.

I guess that's why you need to rely on race whoring and the endless conflating of illegal aliens with legal immigrants. You're an idiot
Since Mexico won’t play ball let’s just shepherd them by the truckload right up to the Canadian border, turn about Is fair play, and the wide open spaces of Canada can be their new home in need of “poor and tired and deadbeat”
Why should the Mexican government "playball" with the US on immigration? It is certainly not their responsibility to defend the US border. The US president has displayed nothing but hostility, threats and insults toward the goverment and the people of Mexico.

Exactly how do you expect the Mexican government to defend the US border?

Now see, I was about to agree with your post, and you as typical have to go into your racist, race whoring crap. "The US president has displayed nothing but hostility, threats and insults toward the goverment and the people of Mexico."

No, he's not. We're against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION you piece of shit garbage jackass
There is nothing racist in what I said. Trump has been spewing out insults, threats, and hostility toward Mexico since he was a candidate and has continued right through his presidency. Do I need to quote his vile remarks?
 
And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.
Incorrect
Forms of visual observation as well as conduct are sufficient for arrest. You are criminal by your own act, no court Must declare you so
A guy pointing a gun does not go to court first and become arrested second
Being arrested does not make you guilty of anything. Without a fair trial, victims can have no confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses. It doesn't matter whether the accused is a kid sneaking across the border or someone accused of a mass murder, the principals are the same and violating those principals will lead to the same results.

That's just stupid. You either are or are not in the country legally and if you are you can prove it.

You can't provide unequivocal documentation that you didn't commit a crime.

I guess that's why you need to rely on race whoring and the endless conflating of illegal aliens with legal immigrants. You're an idiot
Since Mexico won’t play ball let’s just shepherd them by the truckload right up to the Canadian border, turn about Is fair play, and the wide open spaces of Canada can be their new home in need of “poor and tired and deadbeat”
Why should the Mexican government "playball" with the US on immigration? It is certainly not their responsibility to defend the US border. The US president has displayed nothing but hostility, threats and insults toward the goverment and the people of Mexico.

Exactly how do you expect the Mexican government to defend the US border?

Now see, I was about to agree with your post, and you as typical have to go into your racist, race whoring crap. "The US president has displayed nothing but hostility, threats and insults toward the goverment and the people of Mexico."

No, he's not. We're against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION you piece of shit garbage jackass
There is nothing racist in what I said. Trump has been spewing out insults, threats, and hostility toward Mexico since he was a candidate and has continued right through his presidency. Do I need to quote his vile remarks?
Fake
He has persistently referenced illegal acts and never those of a legal nature
 
I live with illegal aliens from MEXICO. I have no Idea what the numbers are. 27 million. It's staggering the numbers. And Mexicans have this pride in la raza and Mexico and their "culture" and they will NOT acclimate. out of pride. Anyone else we would call that arrogance and cultural imperialism. Mexicans seem to see themselves as a gift to mankind. Above question . Why act like Mexicans above the law? Nobody, not even poor Mexicans with kids, NOBODY is above ANY law.
What do you mean Mexicans won't assimilate. They have been assimilating in American culture for hundreds of years. Undocumented immigrants general do not assimilate, regardless of nationality because they lack documentation and are here illegally.
This is actually incorrect.

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

And that one might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s in the country ‘illegally’ – due process must be first afforded before a determination is made by an immigration court that an undocumented immigrant is not entitled to asylum and refugee status, and entered the country absent authorization.

This illustrates the tragedy of Republicans hostile to immigration reform.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Of course, Republicans oppose immigration reform because of their unwarranted fear of immigration and wrongheaded animosity toward immigrants.
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.

You can Clintonize all you like, but if you're not here legally, you are here illegally regardless how or when you got here.
 
And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.
Incorrect
Forms of visual observation as well as conduct are sufficient for arrest. You are criminal by your own act, no court Must declare you so
A guy pointing a gun does not go to court first and become arrested second
Being arrested does not make you guilty of anything. Without a fair trial, victims can have no confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses. It doesn't matter whether the accused is a kid sneaking across the border or someone accused of a mass murder, the principals are the same and violating those principals will lead to the same results.

That's just stupid. You either are or are not in the country legally and if you are you can prove it.

You can't provide unequivocal documentation that you didn't commit a crime.

I guess that's why you need to rely on race whoring and the endless conflating of illegal aliens with legal immigrants. You're an idiot
Since Mexico won’t play ball let’s just shepherd them by the truckload right up to the Canadian border, turn about Is fair play, and the wide open spaces of Canada can be their new home in need of “poor and tired and deadbeat”
Why should the Mexican government "playball" with the US on immigration? It is certainly not their responsibility to defend the US border. The US president has displayed nothing but hostility, threats and insults toward the goverment and the people of Mexico.

Exactly how do you expect the Mexican government to defend the US border?

Now see, I was about to agree with your post, and you as typical have to go into your racist, race whoring crap. "The US president has displayed nothing but hostility, threats and insults toward the goverment and the people of Mexico."

No, he's not. We're against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION you piece of shit garbage jackass
There is nothing racist in what I said. Trump has been spewing out insults, threats, and hostility toward Mexico since he was a candidate and has continued right through his presidency. Do I need to quote his vile remarks?

Yes. And race baiting IS racism in itself. You're exploiting brown people for your own personal benefit. That's just flat out racist
 
What do you mean Mexicans won't assimilate. They have been assimilating in American culture for hundreds of years. Undocumented immigrants general do not assimilate, regardless of nationality because they lack documentation and are here illegally.
This is actually incorrect.

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

And that one might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s in the country ‘illegally’ – due process must be first afforded before a determination is made by an immigration court that an undocumented immigrant is not entitled to asylum and refugee status, and entered the country absent authorization.

This illustrates the tragedy of Republicans hostile to immigration reform.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Of course, Republicans oppose immigration reform because of their unwarranted fear of immigration and wrongheaded animosity toward immigrants.
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.

You can Clintonize all you like, but if you're not here legally, you are here illegally regardless how or when you got here.

Just more of Flopper's racist crap. If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you aren't a bank robber. He's just following the racist plan of exploiting Mexicans for Democrat votes. He hasn't been convicted of being a racist, yet here is is one!
 
Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

Of course they do. That's why our police on the souther border have to know Spanish. That's why we are becoming a bilingual country against our will. That's why they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I go to vote; because these people are assimilating so well.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Yes, in other words, amnesty, just like the Democrats want. The more minorities in the country, the more likely Democrat votes. Plus many of the "legal" immigrants end up on our already strained social programs.
Learning the language is a key component of assimilating into a culture.

Since you seem to have no interest in understanding the viewpoint of anyone from a foreign country, learning a foreign language would be waste of your time.

No one is forcing you to be bilingual. 80% of this country speaks only English. Furthermore, most people in this country whose native language is not English speak English as a second language. However, just as Americans abroad, they prefer their native tongue.

I understand that, but how many other countries vote using ballots in different languages?

They may not be forcing me to personally be bilingual..........yet, but our industry and government they are. Bilingual signs drive me crazy. It's a reminder to me of those who surrendered our country to foreigners and continue today. It's something we never would have tolerated 30 years ago.
 
This is actually incorrect.

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

And that one might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s in the country ‘illegally’ – due process must be first afforded before a determination is made by an immigration court that an undocumented immigrant is not entitled to asylum and refugee status, and entered the country absent authorization.

This illustrates the tragedy of Republicans hostile to immigration reform.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Of course, Republicans oppose immigration reform because of their unwarranted fear of immigration and wrongheaded animosity toward immigrants.
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.

You can Clintonize all you like, but if you're not here legally, you are here illegally regardless how or when you got here.

Just more of Flopper's racist crap. If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you aren't a bank robber. He's just following the racist plan of exploiting Mexicans for Democrat votes. He hasn't been convicted of being a racist, yet here is is one!

In that case, OJ never killed one person in his life.
 
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.
Incorrect
Forms of visual observation as well as conduct are sufficient for arrest. You are criminal by your own act, no court Must declare you so
A guy pointing a gun does not go to court first and become arrested second
Being arrested does not make you guilty of anything. Without a fair trial, victims can have no confidence that justice will be done. Without fair trials, trust in government and the rule of law collapses. It doesn't matter whether the accused is a kid sneaking across the border or someone accused of a mass murder, the principals are the same and violating those principals will lead to the same results.

You have illegally gained access to this country without any court having to so “certify”. What you are engaging in is semantics and an element of that is emotionalism. Those rebutting you are engaging in facts and not pretzel twists.
Determination of guilt or innocents by the courts is not semantics. It's the foundation of our legal system.

Determination of guilt or innocents is not always as cut and dry as you seem to think. Arresting officers are just looking for evidence, not proof. That's up the court.

For example:
A fourteen year old kid was picked up near the Mexican boarder. He claimed he was hiking with friends and got separated. He was not carrying sufficient identification so he was put in a van with 10 other people picked up by the border patrol. Since the boy was picked up near the border, he qualified for expedited deportation which meant no court appearance. He was held for 24 hours and transferred to Mexican authorizes in Tijuana. They did not believe he was a Mexican citizen but agreed to keep him and check out his story. They contacted his guardian in the US and after a week, ICE admitted they fucked up. He was a US citizen born in LA.

Thousands of foreign students are walking around with expired visa. Trump would love to grab these kids and toss them because they are in the country illegally. But are they? The law specifies that they can remain in the US until they have completed their studies, but what exactly does that mean?

Violation of immigration laws are not always as simple as a Mexican family caught walking across the border. And that is why we need the courts to make the decision on guilt or innocence.
 
Mexicans do that all the time legal or illegal. They put 20 people in a three bedroom home and able to live off of shit money. The leftover money gets sent back over the border, and they use it once their Visa or work permit expires and they return home.

Oooookay... if you really need to believe that about "those people", have at it.

We all know you got the best trailer in the trailer park.
 
Mexicans do that all the time legal or illegal. They put 20 people in a three bedroom home and able to live off of shit money. The leftover money gets sent back over the border, and they use it once their Visa or work permit expires and they return home.

Oooookay... if you really need to believe that about "those people", have at it.

We all know you got the best trailer in the trailer park.

And we all know that's all you have are insults and not a cogent argument. I would post links for you, but you never want to learn anything so you won't read them.
 
Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

Of course they do. That's why our police on the souther border have to know Spanish. That's why we are becoming a bilingual country against our will. That's why they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I go to vote; because these people are assimilating so well.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Yes, in other words, amnesty, just like the Democrats want. The more minorities in the country, the more likely Democrat votes. Plus many of the "legal" immigrants end up on our already strained social programs.
Learning the language is a key component of assimilating into a culture.

Since you seem to have no interest in understanding the viewpoint of anyone from a foreign country, learning a foreign language would be waste of your time.

No one is forcing you to be bilingual. 80% of this country speaks only English. Furthermore, most people in this country whose native language is not English speak English as a second language. However, just as Americans abroad, they prefer their native tongue.

I understand that, but how many other countries vote using ballots in different languages?

They may not be forcing me to personally be bilingual..........yet, but our industry and government they are. Bilingual signs drive me crazy. It's a reminder to me of those who surrendered our country to foreigners and continue today. It's something we never would have tolerated 30 years ago.
A better question is what countries don't make ballots available in multiple languages since most countries are multilingual. For example half the people in Europe are bilingual compared to 20% in the US. In Europe 38% speak 3 languages or more. I know the UK makes ballots available in 5 languages and most countries in Europe will provide translations of their ballots in all the major languages.

Most of communities in the US do not provide multilingual ballots. The Voters Act requires that a community with a certain percent of voters that speak a foreign language must be provide ballots in that language. There are about 280 communities in 23 states that meet that requirement.

Practically all voters in the US speak English. However people almost always have better comprehension in their native language. So to have the best informed voters, we make ballots available in different languages.
 
Think about it, if Mexicans just applied for immigration visas legally and stopped dragging their kids along trying to skirt american immigration laws, wouldn't that be the best of all worlds?Why do we have to accommodate THEM being total 100% bastards when they could have just followed the law to begin with?
 
This is actually incorrect.

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

And that one might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s in the country ‘illegally’ – due process must be first afforded before a determination is made by an immigration court that an undocumented immigrant is not entitled to asylum and refugee status, and entered the country absent authorization.

This illustrates the tragedy of Republicans hostile to immigration reform.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Of course, Republicans oppose immigration reform because of their unwarranted fear of immigration and wrongheaded animosity toward immigrants.
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.

You can Clintonize all you like, but if you're not here legally, you are here illegally regardless how or when you got here.

Just more of Flopper's racist crap. If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you aren't a bank robber. He's just following the racist plan of exploiting Mexicans for Democrat votes. He hasn't been convicted of being a racist, yet here is is one!
If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you are a bank robber either. Can't you get it through your head, we have courts to determine guilt or innocence. That is not the responsibility of law enforcement.

I don't take race baits.
 
Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

Of course they do. That's why our police on the souther border have to know Spanish. That's why we are becoming a bilingual country against our will. That's why they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I go to vote; because these people are assimilating so well.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Yes, in other words, amnesty, just like the Democrats want. The more minorities in the country, the more likely Democrat votes. Plus many of the "legal" immigrants end up on our already strained social programs.
Learning the language is a key component of assimilating into a culture.

Since you seem to have no interest in understanding the viewpoint of anyone from a foreign country, learning a foreign language would be waste of your time.

No one is forcing you to be bilingual. 80% of this country speaks only English. Furthermore, most people in this country whose native language is not English speak English as a second language. However, just as Americans abroad, they prefer their native tongue.

I understand that, but how many other countries vote using ballots in different languages?

They may not be forcing me to personally be bilingual..........yet, but our industry and government they are. Bilingual signs drive me crazy. It's a reminder to me of those who surrendered our country to foreigners and continue today. It's something we never would have tolerated 30 years ago.
A better question is what countries don't make ballots available in multiple languages since most countries are multilingual. For example half the people in Europe are bilingual compared to 20% in the US. In Europe 38% speak 3 languages or more. I know the UK makes ballots available in 5 languages and most countries in Europe will provide translations of their ballots in all the major languages.

Most of communities in the US do not provide multilingual ballots. The Voters Act requires that a community with a certain percent of voters that speak a foreign language must be provide ballots in that language. There are about 280 communities in 23 states that meet that requirement.

Practically all voters in the US speak English. However people almost always have better comprehension in their native language. So to have the best informed voters, we make ballots available in different languages.

Or we could not allow them to vote (or be here) if they don't speak our language. Again, an assimilation problem.

I live in a mostly black and partially white community, yet they had three different ballots to choose from. So I doubt it has anything to do with percentages, and everything to do with foreigners making demands of our country that we bend over and accommodate. And how much is that costing the taxpayers to have those ballots designed and printed out? Probably most of them get thrown away anyhow.
 
Think about it, if Mexicans just applied for immigration visas legally and stopped dragging their kids along trying to skirt american immigration laws, wouldn't that be the best of all worlds?Why do we have to accommodate THEM being total 100% bastards when they could have just followed the law to begin with?
Last year about 170,000 Mexicans were granted permanent residency. However about half were already in the country on temporary visa. There are about 1.6 million applicants outstanding. So the wait time is between 10 and 15 years. I'm sure most Mexicans would be happy to apply but the fact is their family will probably be grown before they get into the States legally.

For those that don't have a family member or an employer in the US to sponsor them, the wait is somewhere between the end of time and until hell freezes over.

 
Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

Of course they do. That's why our police on the souther border have to know Spanish. That's why we are becoming a bilingual country against our will. That's why they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I go to vote; because these people are assimilating so well.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Yes, in other words, amnesty, just like the Democrats want. The more minorities in the country, the more likely Democrat votes. Plus many of the "legal" immigrants end up on our already strained social programs.
Learning the language is a key component of assimilating into a culture.

Since you seem to have no interest in understanding the viewpoint of anyone from a foreign country, learning a foreign language would be waste of your time.

No one is forcing you to be bilingual. 80% of this country speaks only English. Furthermore, most people in this country whose native language is not English speak English as a second language. However, just as Americans abroad, they prefer their native tongue.

I understand that, but how many other countries vote using ballots in different languages?

They may not be forcing me to personally be bilingual..........yet, but our industry and government they are. Bilingual signs drive me crazy. It's a reminder to me of those who surrendered our country to foreigners and continue today. It's something we never would have tolerated 30 years ago.
A better question is what countries don't make ballots available in multiple languages since most countries are multilingual. For example half the people in Europe are bilingual compared to 20% in the US. In Europe 38% speak 3 languages or more. I know the UK makes ballots available in 5 languages and most countries in Europe will provide translations of their ballots in all the major languages.

Most of communities in the US do not provide multilingual ballots. The Voters Act requires that a community with a certain percent of voters that speak a foreign language must be provide ballots in that language. There are about 280 communities in 23 states that meet that requirement.

Practically all voters in the US speak English. However people almost always have better comprehension in their native language. So to have the best informed voters, we make ballots available in different languages.

Or we could not allow them to vote (or be here) if they don't speak our language. Again, an assimilation problem.

I live in a mostly black and partially white community, yet they had three different ballots to choose from. So I doubt it has anything to do with percentages, and everything to do with foreigners making demands of our country that we bend over and accommodate. And how much is that costing the taxpayers to have those ballots designed and printed out? Probably most of them get thrown away anyhow.
To vote they have to be a citizen and that requires them to pass an English proficiency test.

A number of states go beyond the Voter Act requirements for the reason I mention. Having informed voters is a goal of every state.

I doubt the cost is very high for providing a translated ballot. If they don't provide translated ballots, voters with English as a second language tend to vote for candidates and skip the proposals because they are more difficult to read and understand.
 
I should have said being undocumented makes it more difficult to assimilate into the culture. The lack of proper documentation and fear of exposure makes people trepidatious, particularly around police and government workers. Activities such as renewing a drivers license, meeting with school personnel about your children, changing jobs, disputing a traffic ticket, or just about any activity that draws public attention can be a landmine.

My grandson dated a girl in high school whose parents were undocumented. She was born in the US but both parents overstayed visas many years ago. They settled in the US, and raised a family.

Although the family spoke English, lived in a nice house in the suburbs, they were always reluctant to do anything that would call attention to the family. They wanted their kids to excel but not to standout. The parents wanted better jobs but were reluctant to change jobs. I suspect that many families do not do as well as this family assimilating into our culture.

And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.

You can Clintonize all you like, but if you're not here legally, you are here illegally regardless how or when you got here.

Just more of Flopper's racist crap. If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you aren't a bank robber. He's just following the racist plan of exploiting Mexicans for Democrat votes. He hasn't been convicted of being a racist, yet here is is one!
If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you are a bank robber either. Can't you get it through your head, we have courts to determine guilt or innocence. That is not the responsibility of law enforcement.

I don't take race baits.

Your last sentence doesn't make sense. You are a race baiter. You constantly conflate illegal aliens with legal immigrants and focus on brown people to imply anyone who disagrees with you is a racist. You're a race baiter, which is itself racist since you're exploiting them for your own personal greed.

You don't want Mexicans, you want poor Mexicans to vote Democrat. I want people who can support themselves from wherever they are from and I don't want people who can't from wherever they are from
 
And I have the perfect solution to that: kick their asses out of the country.

You just said it well: these illegals lived in the suburbs, had jobs, had drivers licenses, sent their kids to our schools, let their Visa's expire without a second thought. And no, I don't call them undocumented, I call them illegals because that's what they are. Calling illegals undocumented is like calling the guy that broke into your house an uninvited guest.

I don't know where these people are from, but don't you think they talked to their family back home and told them about how nobody will bother you if you are here illegally? This is what has to stop.
No, a person is an illegal immigrant only when the court says so. That is how our judicial system works. There is always a presumption of innocence regardless of the evidence. It is the foundation of American Jurisprudence

Also, half of those that are undocumented entered the country legally and are not in violation of any criminal statue.

You can Clintonize all you like, but if you're not here legally, you are here illegally regardless how or when you got here.

Just more of Flopper's racist crap. If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you aren't a bank robber. He's just following the racist plan of exploiting Mexicans for Democrat votes. He hasn't been convicted of being a racist, yet here is is one!
If you haven't been convicted of Bank Robbery, that doesn't mean you are a bank robber either. Can't you get it through your head, we have courts to determine guilt or innocence. That is not the responsibility of law enforcement.

I don't take race baits.

Your last sentence doesn't make sense. You are a race baiter. You constantly conflate illegal aliens with legal immigrants and focus on brown people to imply anyone who disagrees with you is a racist. You're a race baiter, which is itself racist since you're exploiting them for your own personal greed.

You don't want Mexicans, you want poor Mexicans to vote Democrat. I want people who can support themselves from wherever they are from and I don't want people who can't from wherever they are from
If you think I'm race baiting please don't reply.
 
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