What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Thinker101]

As long as they have a place to flock to, these countries are nothing but breeding grounds for future US troubles.

Our country didn't come effortlessly either. We had to fight a lot of wars, sometimes killing each other. Freedom is something that costs a lot of lives. It's about time people in these countries start fighting for themselves, otherwise in 100 years, they will still be coming here.

Most of us have never had to.

Nor have we lived under the conditions and violence in those countries. In fact many of us have ancestors that came here fleeing those kinds of things.

Sure sounds like a nice story though.

It's not a story. Ever hear of the Civil War?

Just because most of us never had to doesn't mean nobody did. We lost a lot of Americans to create and maintain this great place we call America. But that doesn't mean this great place is open to the world. What you want is never ending immigration until the point these people take over our country and turn it into one of theirs which will happen if we don't have massive restrictions on our borders.

We don't have 12 million illegals here because we did enough, we have them because at times we didn't do anything. It's about time we start.

What you are saying is exactly what was said about every other immigration group - they don't assimilate. Yet they do. I'm tired of the constant (and false) argument that if I oppose certain policies I MUST be for open borders and unrestricted immigration.

I'm not.

Oh, sure they assimilate. Why didn't I have to press 1 on my phone to speak our language 20 years ago? Why were signs on the doors in English only 20 years ago and not today? Why do they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I vote; something they never had to ask 20 years ago?

I'm a truck driver and run into a lot of foreigners who are taking American jobs and keeping our wages low. Many of them don't know a word of English, yet they are on the road driving right next to your minivan on our highways with a 75,000 lbs killing machine.

Many of them are not assimilating. They are changing our country instead.

On this I actually agree with Ray.

If you immigrate to Germany, you are required.... REQUIRED.... to learn German. It's not an option. You must do it.

If you go to Denmark, you are required to learn how to swim with co-eds. It's not an option. You must do it.

Why? Because in Germany they speak German, and you need to learn German to be a productive useful citizen that is not a burden on the country. Because in Denmark, there are waterways everywhere, and in order to both be able to save yourself, and your fellow citizens, no matter what gender you are, or they are, you need to know how to swim and save people.

I mention both of these, because both of these countries have deported immigrants who refused to learn German, or learn how to swim with co-eds.

There was some Muslim women that went to Denmark with her family, but refused to learn how to swim. They shipped her butt back to where she came from, and rightly so. There was a Muslim man who refused to learn German because Arabic is all he needed. They shipped his butt back to where he came from.

So where I differ from the right-wingers on here, is that I have no problem at all, with immigrants coming to this country. I find most of the immigrants, with some exceptions, to be wonderful people that I love coming here, and I am particular to Christian immigrants.

However, where I agree with the right-wing completely and if it were up to me, I'd have it be required by law, is that they MUST INTEGRATE. They must learn English, they must learn US customs. They need to learn to how to take a bath. They need to learn how to speak and read properly.

This is one of the very few areas, that I actually support Federal programs for it. Generally I'm against all Federal programs, but I would be supportive of a program for teaching basic American etiquette, and American language. (meaning American English).

You want to come here? Great! Fantastic. Come on in, but you dump your culture that you came from, and you adapt to American Culture. None of this multi-cultural crap that hasn't worked for the last 50+ years. You come here, that's wonderful, but you become an American. You don't want to? That's fine. Stay where you are. You can come when you want to be an American.

Unfortunately the "integration" would be the first thing liberals jump on, claiming it is racist.

 

[protectionist]

Sure. But I sure as hell won't vote for tearing children from their families. Strange but - that wasn't necessary before. Nor was it the policy. Now suddenly, it must be done. And folks pretend it's for the good of the children. I say bullshit on that. Not when there are other accommodations for families.

Before (during the Obama years), illegal aliens weren't detained. They had catch & release. They get a ticket to appear in court, laugh at it, tear it up, and walk away. No more of that now.

So what's your stance on American kids being torn from their families when the family member(s) goes to jail ?

 

[protectionist]

That's not a fair comparison. No one is goes to jail for 20 years for unlawful entry into the US or unlawful presence. There is no reason why parents should be separated from their children while they are being detained. They can be held in family detention centers. If the adults are convicted of a crime and sent to prison, then the children should should be turned over to an agency for placement. If they are deported they should be turned back over to parents.

Separating these children from their parents is a disaster waiting to happen particular with the younger kids. The Trump administration has made separating kids of detained parents a policy which means there're going have thousands of them. When these kids start turning up missing or worse and can't be returned to the parents, the democrats will have a field day.

OK so we could ask the question >> if an American couple are arrested for some white collar misdemeanor, and are sentenced to 6 months in a federal prison, and they have a 1 year old child, should that kid should be in their prison cell with them, for that 6 months time ? (so as to prevent their separation ?)
Is this opposition to separation only for foreigners ?

And no, the Trump administration has not made separating kids of detained parents, a policy. It has always been the policy for kids of criminal parents to stay home, while parent serves time. Been that way for 200+ years in America,

 

[protectionist]

I lived in New Orleans for 10 years, and down there, I learned what happens to kids without parents..

Gangs.

When the parents are criminals, the kids might be better off with foster parents who are law abiding.

 

[protectionist]

There are so many empty FEMA trailers (about 60,000) around the country, the government has been selling them. The army is spending half billion dollars a year maintaining empty facilities. There is plenty of room for detainees and their families. Trump is just going after the kids to punish the parents, exactly what I would expect of him.

FEMA trailers are for victims of natural disasters (who have broken no laws). To the contrary, the illegal alien invaders are criminals who must be guarded, to prevent their escape, (like they did with Obama's catch & release). FEMA trailers don't match the situation.

 

[protectionist]

Doesn't do any good when Trump won't sign anything.

He has signed dozens (if not hundreds) of bills and EOs.

 

[protectionist]

Who says they are criminals. Innocent until proven guilty. Remember that.

There should be immigration judges all along the border. Video tape the illegals climbing over the fence, and have judges prove them guilty right there (the ones who don't get eaten by alligators). Send them right back.

 

[GWV5903]

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL.

I don't hate them, never have. What I do not like is the imbeciles who use them for political gain. They are always welcome when the follow our laws, it's pretty simple, but somehow you're are unable to see this...

You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

Their parents know they are braking our laws and so do you, as usual you justify lawless actions by non citizens...

 

[protectionist]

We do? We don't jail people for jaywalking. Sessions is a animal and a thug.

We talking about US Code 8, Section 1325, not jaywalking.

 

[protectionist]

Their parents know they are breaking our laws and so do you, as usual you justify lawless actions by non citizens...

Exactly correct. Illegal aliens disrespect our laws (and therefore us as well), and for quite some time, have been coached by their rogue government in Mexico, to do it. This guidebook was printed by the Mexican govt, tutoring migrants on how to get into the US (illegally) and evade US immigration authorities.

Another example of Trump's CORRECT statement about "When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As long as they have a place to flock to, these countries are nothing but breeding grounds for future US troubles.

Our country didn't come effortlessly either. We had to fight a lot of wars, sometimes killing each other. Freedom is something that costs a lot of lives. It's about time people in these countries start fighting for themselves, otherwise in 100 years, they will still be coming here.

Most of us have never had to.

Nor have we lived under the conditions and violence in those countries. In fact many of us have ancestors that came here fleeing those kinds of things.

Sure sounds like a nice story though.

It's not a story. Ever hear of the Civil War?

Just because most of us never had to doesn't mean nobody did. We lost a lot of Americans to create and maintain this great place we call America. But that doesn't mean this great place is open to the world. What you want is never ending immigration until the point these people take over our country and turn it into one of theirs which will happen if we don't have massive restrictions on our borders.

We don't have 12 million illegals here because we did enough, we have them because at times we didn't do anything. It's about time we start.

What you are saying is exactly what was said about every other immigration group - they don't assimilate. Yet they do. I'm tired of the constant (and false) argument that if I oppose certain policies I MUST be for open borders and unrestricted immigration.

I'm not.

Oh, sure they assimilate. Why didn't I have to press 1 on my phone to speak our language 20 years ago? Why were signs on the doors in English only 20 years ago and not today? Why do they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I vote; something they never had to ask 20 years ago?

I'm a truck driver and run into a lot of foreigners who are taking American jobs and keeping our wages low. Many of them don't know a word of English, yet they are on the road driving right next to your minivan on our highways with a 75,000 lbs killing machine.

Many of them are not assimilating. They are changing our country instead.

On this I actually agree with Ray.

If you immigrate to Germany, you are required.... REQUIRED.... to learn German. It's not an option. You must do it.

If you go to Denmark, you are required to learn how to swim with co-eds. It's not an option. You must do it.

Why? Because in Germany they speak German, and you need to learn German to be a productive useful citizen that is not a burden on the country. Because in Denmark, there are waterways everywhere, and in order to both be able to save yourself, and your fellow citizens, no matter what gender you are, or they are, you need to know how to swim and save people.

I mention both of these, because both of these countries have deported immigrants who refused to learn German, or learn how to swim with co-eds.

There was some Muslim women that went to Denmark with her family, but refused to learn how to swim. They shipped her butt back to where she came from, and rightly so. There was a Muslim man who refused to learn German because Arabic is all he needed. They shipped his butt back to where he came from.

So where I differ from the right-wingers on here, is that I have no problem at all, with immigrants coming to this country. I find most of the immigrants, with some exceptions, to be wonderful people that I love coming here, and I am particular to Christian immigrants.

However, where I agree with the right-wing completely and if it were up to me, I'd have it be required by law, is that they MUST INTEGRATE. They must learn English, they must learn US customs. They need to learn to how to take a bath. They need to learn how to speak and read properly.

This is one of the very few areas, that I actually support Federal programs for it. Generally I'm against all Federal programs, but I would be supportive of a program for teaching basic American etiquette, and American language. (meaning American English).

You want to come here? Great! Fantastic. Come on in, but you dump your culture that you came from, and you adapt to American Culture. None of this multi-cultural crap that hasn't worked for the last 50+ years. You come here, that's wonderful, but you become an American. You don't want to? That's fine. Stay where you are. You can come when you want to be an American.

The problem is they don't come here to be American, they come here to use America.

We don't have as much of a problem with immigrants up north as they do in the south, but from what I understand, they pack 12 people in a two bedroom house and after all expenses are met, they send the rest of their money back over the border.

We do have a system for integration, and that is to only allow 1 million people a year to come here. At one point in the early 1900's they just about closed down the border to allow people to assimilate because they were getting like the immigrants that are here today and changing the country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Obama hadn't advertised the fact that we would let illegals with children get a free pass before.

Human trafficking and child smuggling has become epidemic. And it's because of people like you.

Parent bring their kids to America seeking protection for their family from violence and poverty is not human trafficking.

So again I ask, if they bring illegal narcotics with them, is that not drug trafficking?

It’s not drug trafficking, but fears of gang violence at home and poverty that brings most illegal immigrants to the settle in the US. Drug traffickers have little interest in living the US. They run drugs across the boarder and return to Central and South America where they can live like kings. They are not part of 11 million undocumented immigrants in America.

Data on immigrants and crime are incomplete, but a range of studies show there is no evidence immigrants commit more crimes than native-born Americans. In fact, first-generation immigrants are predisposed to lower crime rates than native-born Americans. (The Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates for restrictive immigration laws, has a detailed report showing the shortfalls of immigrant crime data.)

It is true that many undocumented immigrants seek employment in less that legal enterprises but that is not because of their past are the fact they are in America but rather because they are undocumented which limits job and educational opportunities as well the opportunity to assimilate into American society.

Illegal immigrants responsible for almost three-fourths of federal drug possession sentences in 2014

Report: Illegals Committed 600,000 Crimes in Texas in 6 Yrs

Illegals commit crimes at double the rate of native-born: Study

You're picking age groups, states and time frames to support your contention plus the fact that every illegal immigrant is guilty of a crime just by being here.

No, they are talking about real crimes. Maybe not murder in every case, but they are not including being illegal. You don't get locked up in the federal prison on a drug charge simply because you are here illegally.

The more of these people we allow to come or stay here, the more problems we will have with criminal immigrants of any kind. But even if they are no trouble whatsoever, it doesn't justify coming here illegally.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Don't dodge. Link showing that these children were housed with hardcore criminals?

I'm working 12 hour shifts right now........don't have time to play your stupid game right now.........google it.....it's there............They are mostly Private prisons........................do you deny the second offense is a felony.................Let's put felons in family centers............LOL

You want Catch and Release...............and you sure as hell don't want our borders secure.............That policy is OPEN BORDERS............why did they even bother to detain ANYONE under Obama.............when they let them go anyway..................

Kind of a Waste of time.

Then you sure as hell shouldn't have time to be messing about on a silly political messageboard I would think. If you don't have a link, then fine. Stop farting around.

Why do you think this is a good policy? It wasn't necessary before. Why now?

Why do you think every policy has to be based on necessity? How about he just wanted to do it to send a message to future law breakers coming to this country?

Because it crosses the line to cruel and abusive tactics and if it is unnecessary, why do it? Hyperbole yes - but, just go put heads on stakes.

You never learn, do you? That tactic has zero chance of changing anybody's mind here or anyplace else. Extremism is desperation and everybody knows it.

There is nothing cruel and abusive about taking starving kids, putting them in a shelter, getting them cleaned up, fed, medical treatment if necessary, or otherwise sending them to live with relatives already in the US. What could possibly be cruel about that?

Particularly since we do it to children who are actual citizens all the time, and the left never has a bad word to say about it. To the contrary, when the people involved are US citizens, leftists tend to think children are better off in the hands of the government than with their parents.

It's also important to note all the things that have been pointed out several times, which the leftists here steadfastly refuse to acknowledge: this policy is intended in part to PROTECT those children. Many of the children who enter this country illegally AREN'T with their parents or legal guardians. Unaccompanied minors have become a huge problem for ICE in recent years. Sometimes, those children are being brought in here by non-parents for nefarious purposes, and we have no real way of knowing which are which. Sometimes, they're just sent by the parents, and they're in the company of coyotes. Trust me, coyotes are among the worst people on the planet. They think nothing of killing an entire group of illegals they're smuggling in, if they think it will keep them from getting caught and prosecuted.

Even when the child IS with his parents, the scenario we're talking about is that their parents have been ARRESTED. They are no longer free to take care of the child. Utopian fantasies aside, we do NOT have adequate facilities to house families, and the condition of the facilities we DO have was an open scandal under the Obama administration, although the left didn't want to spend money to improve them, because they wanted the excuse to demand that we simply release people into the population and "trust" them to come back for their hearings. Only a fool would think that would work.

Changing the policy to prosecute the adults faster is the only way to protect our country from a river of illegals just wandering in whenever they want, while also allowing us to reunite the child and parent as soon as possible.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

bs, the stupid jerks should not HAVE kids. They know damned well what causes kids, how to prevent it, and they also know damned well that they can't afford kids. So they come here to steal our jobs and mooch off of the taxpayer. I say eff em. Let them stay where they are, stop having kids and soon, labor will be worth something where they live.

When they came to the US seeking asylums, they probably didn't expect the first thing the US would do was take away kids. There mistake was not realizing that "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" was just all bullshit. They should have just stayed in Honduras and taken their chances with Mara Salvatrucha and the Barrio 18.

Their expectations and lack of preparation are not our problem or responsibility. Anyone who thought they were going to just ignore the law and have no consequences is too stupid for us to want them to be part of our country.

I don't believe they ARE that stupid. They know perfectly well that they're breaking the law, and that law enforcement IS looking for them, and IS going to arrest them. And they WILL know very soon that being arrested no longer means sitting around in a family detention center for months, or being released into the population to vanish. You just put your finger on a huge reason why this is a good policy.

Their mistake was in thinking that a stupid little poem 1) is just a poem, and 2) is talking about LEGAL immigration, not a free-for-all. If you're quite done with your attempt to tug heartstrings and bypass intelligence, perhaps we can get back to discussing border control like rational adults.

They SHOULD have stayed in Honduras. You at least got that right.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Immigration in the Omnibus: No Wall Funding, but Gains for Trump

Detention Beds

• President’s request: Currently, the government is required to fill at least 34,000 beds across all immigration detention centers each night. Congress has continued this mandate over many years, despite objections raised by the Obama administration. Trump sought $1.2 billion to expand the mandate to 45,700 beds by the end of FY2017.
• Omnibus bill: Congress approved $526 million for additional beds, raising the number available to 39,324. Congress also approved $33 million for additional transportation and removal costs, as well as $57 million for alternatives to detention.

Immigration courts

• President’s Request: The president’s FY2017 request did not ask for additional immigration court funding. However, the FY2018 budget blueprint called for the hiring of 75 new judge teams. The new resources would aim to speed up case processing in immigration courts, where the backlog has surpassed 542,000 cases, with an average wait time of 677 days.
• Omnibus bill: The Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) budget has been increased by $20 million to $440 million for FY2017, which allows for the creation of 10 additional immigration judge teams this fiscal year.

There are so many empty FEMA trailers (about 60,000) around the country, the government has been selling them. The army is spending half billion dollars a year maintaining empty facilities. There is plenty of room for detainees and their families. Trump is just going after the kids to punish the parents, exactly what I would expect of him.

And that makes better sense than simply processing and deporting them all faster how?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Funny thing is, she says, "Fund more judges to speed up hearings and deportations", like it's some brilliant alternative she's come up with that no one else saw, because her leftism makes her so superior and more compassionate, but HER OWN DAMNED LINK said that that's the cornerstone of the program she's bitching about. If she had bothered to read more than the headline before shouting, "Eureka! Something else I can hate Trump for!" she would know that.

Sorry, I never claimed credit for that, it's been in the news. You need get to out more. Meanwhile, please feel to extol the virtues of ripping babies from the arms of their mothers in hour effort to "stop" illegal immigration. A pity you can't put all that energy into stopping rape and murder and child abuse. Oops. You support child abuse don't you? Never mind then. Your warped priorities will hopefuly be just another page in our countries book of shame in a few years.

On the second offense it is a felony..........and those get put into prison with some very bad people.........Let's put the children into prison with drug traffickers and Human Traffickers.

In the Omnibus they only gave Trump half what he requested for more beds.
They also weren't so nice on implementing E-Verify............didn't give enough for more judges but more judges for immigration courts did happen..........

Everything some have complained about here was proposed.................

Want more beds and speedy trials.............how about voting to fund it.

Sure. But I sure as hell won't vote for tearing children from their families. Strange but - that wasn't necessary before. Nor was it the policy. Now suddenly, it must be done. And folks pretend it's for the good of the children. I say bullshit on that. Not when there are other accommodations for families.

Obama hadn't advertised the fact that we would let illegals with children get a free pass before.

Human trafficking and child smuggling has become epidemic. And it's because of people like you.

Parents bring their kids to America seeking protection for their family from violence and poverty is not human trafficking.

Yeah, except how are we supposed to know which ones are actual parents, and which ones are lying through their teeth? You like to pretend there's no issue with unaccompanied minors crossing the border that has to be factored into our policies, but that's not the case.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Parent bring their kids to America seeking protection for their family from violence and poverty is not human trafficking.

So again I ask, if they bring illegal narcotics with them, is that not drug trafficking?

No.

Drug trafficking involves trade in illegal drugs - cultivation, manufacture, distribution and sale. If they are bringing illegal drugs with them with the intent to distribute and sell, then yes - it is drug trafficking.

Human trafficking involves trade in humans for the purposes of slavery, sexual exploitation or forced labor.

So if a foreigner comes here with a pound of heroin, he is not drug trafficking? Yet if he comes here with an illegal kid, he's not human trafficking?

If he is coming in with a pound of heroin do you honestly think it's for his own personal use? I can assure you the DEA will not think so. He is trafficking.

If a foreigner comes in with a kid chances are very high it is his/her kid, but immigration authorities are trained to spot possible human trafficking. You don't just assume every family is a trafficker and rip away their kids. Honestly this kind of argument is nothing more then a cover to justify this policy. They aren't seriously worried about traffickers. Sessions and Trump specifically stated WHY they are doing it, to act as a deterrant to illegal immigrants (including legal asylum speakers). It's not about trafficking - that's just a feel-good claim to support a horrible policy.

Actually what I read is that Trump and Sessions are denying it has anything to do with being a deterrent.

So let's say a foreigner tries to get into this country with an ounce of heroin. You don't think he'll be arrested and sentenced?

If you are bringing a child into this country illegally, that is against our laws just like if you bring in any amount of recreation narcotics into this country.

I don't think it's intended primarily as a deterrent, but it certainly will work as one.

Mostly, it's intended to alleviate problems in the system which the current laws won't let them fix any other way.

 

[Cecilie1200]

third worlders should learn to build decent societies Flopper .

It's easy to sit in relative luxury and peace and pontificate on why the Third World doesn't fix it's on problems. If you spend all of your time avoiding starvation and keeping a roof over the head of your family there is no time to build a decent society.

We never built a decent society we inherited it from immigrants that came here from all over the world to grow and prosper in the richest nation on earth.

It's easy to sit in relative luxury and peace, far away from the border and with little knowledge and no responsibility for making the system work, and pontificate on "brilliant" quick fixes and immediately assume that the only reason that's NOT what's being done must be hatred and eeeeevil, instead of considering the possibility that the people who ACTUALLY have to make things work have a point when they tell us that we don't have the ability to do it that way.

Maybe YOU didn't work to contribute anything to building this society, but don't project your lazy parasitism to the rest of us. Most Americans work hard every day to continue building and maintaining this society, and we usually have to fight assholes like you who want to tear it apart and/or give it away to the first beggar who comes by with a sob story. Furthermore, you're cordially invited to stop conflating my ancestors, who certainly did not feel justified to just wander into someone else's country and make themselves at home, with people who do.

If you want to deny that this country is your home and belongs to you and that you have a proprietary right to protect it, that's your lookout. But none of the rest of us are obligated to join you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Most of us have never had to.

Nor have we lived under the conditions and violence in those countries. In fact many of us have ancestors that came here fleeing those kinds of things.

Sure sounds like a nice story though.

It's not a story. Ever hear of the Civil War?

Just because most of us never had to doesn't mean nobody did. We lost a lot of Americans to create and maintain this great place we call America. But that doesn't mean this great place is open to the world. What you want is never ending immigration until the point these people take over our country and turn it into one of theirs which will happen if we don't have massive restrictions on our borders.

We don't have 12 million illegals here because we did enough, we have them because at times we didn't do anything. It's about time we start.

What you are saying is exactly what was said about every other immigration group - they don't assimilate. Yet they do. I'm tired of the constant (and false) argument that if I oppose certain policies I MUST be for open borders and unrestricted immigration.

I'm not.

Oh, sure they assimilate. Why didn't I have to press 1 on my phone to speak our language 20 years ago? Why were signs on the doors in English only 20 years ago and not today? Why do they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I vote; something they never had to ask 20 years ago?

I'm a truck driver and run into a lot of foreigners who are taking American jobs and keeping our wages low. Many of them don't know a word of English, yet they are on the road driving right next to your minivan on our highways with a 75,000 lbs killing machine.

Many of them are not assimilating. They are changing our country instead.

On this I actually agree with Ray.

If you immigrate to Germany, you are required.... REQUIRED.... to learn German. It's not an option. You must do it.

If you go to Denmark, you are required to learn how to swim with co-eds. It's not an option. You must do it.

Why? Because in Germany they speak German, and you need to learn German to be a productive useful citizen that is not a burden on the country. Because in Denmark, there are waterways everywhere, and in order to both be able to save yourself, and your fellow citizens, no matter what gender you are, or they are, you need to know how to swim and save people.

I mention both of these, because both of these countries have deported immigrants who refused to learn German, or learn how to swim with co-eds.

There was some Muslim women that went to Denmark with her family, but refused to learn how to swim. They shipped her butt back to where she came from, and rightly so. There was a Muslim man who refused to learn German because Arabic is all he needed. They shipped his butt back to where he came from.

So where I differ from the right-wingers on here, is that I have no problem at all, with immigrants coming to this country. I find most of the immigrants, with some exceptions, to be wonderful people that I love coming here, and I am particular to Christian immigrants.

However, where I agree with the right-wing completely and if it were up to me, I'd have it be required by law, is that they MUST INTEGRATE. They must learn English, they must learn US customs. They need to learn to how to take a bath. They need to learn how to speak and read properly.

This is one of the very few areas, that I actually support Federal programs for it. Generally I'm against all Federal programs, but I would be supportive of a program for teaching basic American etiquette, and American language. (meaning American English).

You want to come here? Great! Fantastic. Come on in, but you dump your culture that you came from, and you adapt to American Culture. None of this multi-cultural crap that hasn't worked for the last 50+ years. You come here, that's wonderful, but you become an American. You don't want to? That's fine. Stay where you are. You can come when you want to be an American.

The problem is they don't come here to be American, they come here to use America.

We don't have as much of a problem with immigrants up north as they do in the south, but from what I understand, they pack 12 people in a two bedroom house and after all expenses are met, they send the rest of their money back over the border.

We do have a system for integration, and that is to only allow 1 million people a year to come here. At one point in the early 1900's they just about closed down the border to allow people to assimilate because they were getting like the immigrants that are here today and changing the country.

You are correct. I lived in an apartment complex once, in Tucson, where ICE raided another apartment right after I moved in. You would not have BELIEVED the number of people they took out of that two-bedroom apartment in handcuffs. It was like a clown car. And THEN they started clearing out boxes and containers, and going through them for contraband. Holy shit. Took hours, and the amount of stuff they found . . . yow.

 

[pismoe]

and outside of apartments , check out downtown LosAngeles , the close city of Van Nuys , Lancaster , and many other places in California which are really changed into 'mexico' and south america .