What is a "Progressive"?

[Erand7899]

What have we learned in the last 20 odd pages of debate?

We have learned that Liberals are proud of a record of success in the pursuit of justice and equality and a higher standard of living made available to all Americans. We have learned that Liberals will continue to be relentless in this struggle, and it's only a struggle because of Conservative opposition to the principles of fairness and justice.

We have further learned that when Conservatives are rhetorically cornered, hoisted on their own petard as the Bard said, they resort to revisionist history, name calling and shear pettiness. The driving force behind cont,eporary Conservatism is the idea of "I've got mine! To hell with the rest of you! Oh, and corporations are beyond reproach, all economic events can be directly tracked to Liberal policies if those events are injurious, Conservative policies if those events are beneficial.".

No one is going to be convinced that the other is right. Liberals are not able to cut a path through the weeds of Conservative revisionism and the deep impact Conservative pundits have made by way of talking points and affirmation that the American Conservative is a victim.

I find that odd because Conservatives often decry the notion of 'victim hood' as a sign of weakness. Conservatives aren't going to be able to pull the wool over the eyes of Liberals because we know the truth and are all too aware of the consequences of Conservative policies.

It's not a stalemate per se. It's been an affirmation of what we already know. The angry and gullible go Conservative. The aware and the optimistic go Liberal.

In the long run Liberalism always prevails because that way lies Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!

Yes, Liberalism does just that, but not so much the delusional asses who call themselves liberals because they know that their true ism is socialism, and that word does not sell to the masses.

You can call yourself whatever you like, but your actions, and your desired actions belie any honest claim to the word liberal.

Liberal/socialists have prevailed for one simple reason. Liberal socialists believe they can obtain their dreams through government, and consequently, they seek political power to accomplish those dreams. Conservatives believe their dreams are best advanced in the private sector, and consequently, they are not driven to seek political power.

Conservatives have ceded the political machine to the liberal/socialists, and that has been a terrible misstake. Hopefully, that misstake is currently in the process of being corrected.

 

[Nosmo King]

Firstly, it was never intended that the federal government have the authority to levy a permanent direct tax on whatever they decided was taxable income.

I agree that the poor ought not be saddled with heavy taxes.

So , once the gargantuan welfare/warfare police state is abolished all Americans should pay the same INDIRECT taxes .

.

Do you defend the constitution of the United States?

Is there any doubt?

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Even the 16th amendment?

 

[Contumacious]

Do you defend the constitution of the United States?

Is there any doubt?

.

Even the 16th amendment?

Was the 16th Amendment properly ratified?

Does the 16th Amendment apply to wages or was it FDR' s withholding Tax at source imposed by the Victory Tax of 1942 which was only supposed to last for two years?

.

 

[1776]

Progressive is a code word someone too ashamed to call themselves a liberal, socialist, etc. Those words have been exposed as backwards people, people that ruin your life....so they now claim to be "progressive" in that they are going to really, really, really help you if they can run your life.

Afterall they promised cheaper and more abundant medical care for EVERYONE....PROGRESS people.....means ruining your life to help people that fucked up their lives.

 

[The T]

Progressive is a code word someone too ashamed to call themselves a liberal, socialist, etc. Those words have been exposed as backwards people, people that ruin your life....so they now claim to be "progressive" in that they are going to really, really, really help you if they can run your life.

Afterall they promised cheaper and more abundant medical care for EVERYONE....PROGRESS people.....means ruining your life to help people that fucked up their lives.

Progressives are COMMUNISTS...plain and simple. They wear masks...and are easy to spot. If ANY politician wants to make law or votes FOR a law that is an affront to liberty of any individual? Chances are? They're a progressive with a phony partisan label attached to hide their TRUE intent.

Washington warned us in 1796...SOME of us have yet to learn that lesson.

 

[Nosmo King]

Is there any doubt?

.

Even the 16th amendment?

Was the 16th Amendment properly ratified?

Does the 16th Amendment apply to wages or was it FDR' s withholding Tax at source imposed by the Victory Tax of 1942 which was only supposed to last for two years?

.

are the problems as you understand them problems wih tax code or tax collections? If you want to find a legal loophole with the 16th amendment, why hasn't someone with standing argued the case before the SCOTUS? In one hundred years of existence, don't you think the 16th has been edudicated to death?

The question remains: have I defended a legitimate position on the graduated tax, or do you still think it's criminally insane?
[MENTION=20503]Contumacious[/MENTION]

 

[American_Jihad]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2oOoCdFblc]YouTube Debate: Hillary - Are You a Liberal? - YouTube[/ame]

......​

 

[Contumacious]

Even the 16th amendment?

Was the 16th Amendment properly ratified?

Does the 16th Amendment apply to wages or was it FDR' s withholding Tax at source imposed by the Victory Tax of 1942 which was only supposed to last for two years?

.

are the problems as you understand them problems wih tax code or tax collections? If you want to find a legal loophole with the 16th amendment, why hasn't someone with standing argued the case before the SCOTUS? In one hundred years of existence, don't you think the 16th has been edudicated to death?

The question remains: have I defended a legitimate position on the graduated tax, or do you still think it's criminally insane?


[MENTION=20503]Contumacious[/MENTION]

I don't know if you have noticed that we have a gargantuan welfare/warfare police state. So the SCOTUS is not about to deprive the continuing criminal enterprise of the illegally obtained revenue.So Corporations and those who have been subjected to the illegal confiscation find it easier to pass the additional costs to the consumer.

progressive=elitist=fascist=government supremacist=socialist

.

 

[regent]

Our government became involved in America's economy as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution, and has been involved ever since. What has changed over the years is the gradual change from government helping just industry to now helping workers, consumers, and others. The change is still taking place and it makes for much of our political unrest.
The major problem created by our industry based economy, and not yet totally solved by government, is the business cycle, recessions/depressions. We have made headway on the business cycles with Keynes, not cured, but a handle. Another major problem to our economy and perhaps why Keyes is not a cure-all is the war thing, and that we may never solve.
Perhaps someday if mankind continues to exist that problem will be solved?

 

[The T]

Our government became involved in America's economy as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution, and has been involved ever since. What has changed over the years is the gradual change from government helping just industry to now helping workers, consumers, and others. The change is still taking place and it makes for much of our political unrest.
The major problem created by our industry based economy, and not yet totally solved by government, is the business cycle, recessions/depressions. We have made headway on the business cycles with Keynes, not cured, but a handle. Another major problem to our economy and perhaps why Keyes is not a cure-all is the war thing, and that we may never solve.
Perhaps someday if mankind continues to exist that problem will be solved?

The ONLY solving this government needs to do is to make and maintain conditions so businesses, consumers can thrive. The government isn't doing that for ALL...just ones that favour government. AKA cronyism.

 

[regent]

Our government became involved in America's economy as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution, and has been involved ever since. What has changed over the years is the gradual change from government helping just industry to now helping workers, consumers, and others. The change is still taking place and it makes for much of our political unrest.
The major problem created by our industry based economy, and not yet totally solved by government, is the business cycle, recessions/depressions. We have made headway on the business cycles with Keynes, not cured, but a handle. Another major problem to our economy and perhaps why Keyes is not a cure-all is the war thing, and that we may never solve.
Perhaps someday if mankind continues to exist that problem will be solved?

The ONLY solving this government needs to do is to make and maintain conditions so businesses, consumers can thrive. The government isn't doing that for ALL...just ones that favour government. AKA cronyism.

The cronyism is too often dependent on how the political contributions have rolled in.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Was the 16th Amendment properly ratified?

Does the 16th Amendment apply to wages or was it FDR' s withholding Tax at source imposed by the Victory Tax of 1942 which was only supposed to last for two years?

.

are the problems as you understand them problems wih tax code or tax collections? If you want to find a legal loophole with the 16th amendment, why hasn't someone with standing argued the case before the SCOTUS? In one hundred years of existence, don't you think the 16th has been edudicated to death?

The question remains: have I defended a legitimate position on the graduated tax, or do you still think it's criminally insane?


[MENTION=20503]Contumacious[/MENTION]

I don't know if you have noticed that we have a gargantuan welfare/warfare police state. So the SCOTUS is not about to deprive the continuing criminal enterprise of the illegally obtained revenue.So Corporations and those who have been subjected to the illegal confiscation find it easier to pass the additional costs to the consumer.

progressive=elitist=fascist=government supremacist=socialist

.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Our government became involved in America's economy as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution, and has been involved ever since. What has changed over the years is the gradual change from government helping just industry to now helping workers, consumers, and others. The change is still taking place and it makes for much of our political unrest.
The major problem created by our industry based economy, and not yet totally solved by government, is the business cycle, recessions/depressions. We have made headway on the business cycles with Keynes, not cured, but a handle. Another major problem to our economy and perhaps why Keyes is not a cure-all is the war thing, and that we may never solve.
Perhaps someday if mankind continues to exist that problem will be solved?

It was Ike who pointed out the danger of the Military-Industrial-Complex and it now dominates both the political and economic aspects of this nation. At least 50% of the national debt is directly attributable to military spending. Until We the People start taking a realistic approach to military spending we will never bring the deficit under control.

As far as the economic boom-bust cycles are concerned that insanity is driven by the Wall Street Casino. They make money off the up and down swings and everyone else loses. The only way to control that is to stop punishing corporations that don't always meet the greed expectations of Wall St. Instead start rewarding corporations that look at long term horizons of 10+ years rather than the next quarterly dividend.

Finally government is all that stands between We the People and being ruthlessly exploited. It is our tool to keep us safe from ourselves. Until we learn how to use it wisely, (and no, that will never happen until we stop calling it the problem,) we are going to have to deal with these issues. JFK was 100% correct when he said that all man made problems can be fixed. All it takes is a willingness to address the issues rather than a childish attitude of wanting to tear it down.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you are living in a double wide, the rich don't care about you, Cleetus.

I'm hoping on some level, you get that.

The rich are rich because we have a system where wealth accumulates in a few hands, and politicians can be bought. If you haven't figured that one out yet, you just aren't very bright, are you.

Have fun in your double wide, man. The possum hunt starts later.

What a dumbass comment (figures). I live in a 4 bedroom 2900 square foot home on 260 acres that I own in Montana and I will bet you a dollar to a donut that the "rich" couldn't care less. I worked for EVERY penny that I used to pay for this home - from working for those "rich" guys. They provided me with a fine living and I am forever grateful for their "richness".

Jesus, you envious bastards. I'll ask the same question that I ask of any other idiot that hates the rich - if YOU have a job (I am supposing that you live off Uncle Sugar) but IF you have a job tell me this (and be truthful): Do you work for a poor person? Do you work for some bum that lives under a bridge? Was the person who hired you on food stamps? Does he pay you in Food Stamps? -OR- Does he pay you from the profits of the company that HE invested in, used HIS money to start?

You might consider these things before you continually bit the hand that feeds you.

Now, head back to your refrigerator box - it's cold as hell outside!

You are calling someone a dumbass when you are assuming that everyone has had the same opportunities as you.

Oh, wah, wah, wah. "Someone else had it easier than me, so it's okay that I'm a bum and a slacker and didn't bother to try."

Wait, let me get my violin and play, "My Heart Pumps Purple Piss For You".

 

[Cecilie1200]

When progressives gain power, for example in the Soviet Union, they may may put you in a labour camp for 10 years , if you survive that long, but only for your OWN GOOD. You see they really CARE which entitles them to strut around basking in a self-generated glow of moral superiority.

I do not much care for them.

That was russia, and stalin was a brutal dictator. Now take USA. FDR was a progressive and the labor camps he put people in was the WPA. Free stuff, today's so called conservatives would say, but back then they'd probably say, sign me up, I'm tired of mixing sawdust with my hamburger and let's send these republicans to hell. They did too, at least for a couple of decades.

Why is that "This a much nicer, more comfortable slavery" doesn't really make me feel better?

 

[Derideo_Te]

When progressives gain power, for example in the Soviet Union, they may may put you in a labour camp for 10 years , if you survive that long, but only for your OWN GOOD. You see they really CARE which entitles them to strut around basking in a self-generated glow of moral superiority.

I do not much care for them.

That was russia, and stalin was a brutal dictator. Now take USA. FDR was a progressive and the labor camps he put people in was the WPA. Free stuff, today's so called conservatives would say, but back then they'd probably say, sign me up, I'm tired of mixing sawdust with my hamburger and let's send these republicans to hell. They did too, at least for a couple of decades.

Why is that "This a much nicer, more comfortable slavery" doesn't really make me feel better?

Since when did slaves have the right to vote for their own representatives? Since when did slaves get paid for their hourly work? Since when did slaves have the freedom to leave the labor camps?

 

[Nosmo King]

That was russia, and stalin was a brutal dictator. Now take USA. FDR was a progressive and the labor camps he put people in was the WPA. Free stuff, today's so called conservatives would say, but back then they'd probably say, sign me up, I'm tired of mixing sawdust with my hamburger and let's send these republicans to hell. They did too, at least for a couple of decades.

Why is that "This a much nicer, more comfortable slavery" doesn't really make me feel better?

Since when did slaves have the right to vote for their own representatives? Since when did slaves get paid for their hourly work? Since when did slaves have the freedom to leave the labor camps?

This talk of slavery is nothing more than good old fashioned Conservative hyperbole. When cornered, break out the hysteric claims. When the argument crumbles because it was built on nonsense, hoist the hyperbole flag. I'm still waiting for sanity on my question about the graduated tax code. Just page back one page and see how that answer went.

 

[Contumacious]

What is a "Progressive"?

He/she is the one that asks: What national debt?

.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Why is that "This a much nicer, more comfortable slavery" doesn't really make me feel better?

Since when did slaves have the right to vote for their own representatives? Since when did slaves get paid for their hourly work? Since when did slaves have the freedom to leave the labor camps?

This talk of slavery is nothing more than good old fashioned Conservative hyperbole. When cornered, break out the hysteric claims. When the argument crumbles because it was built on nonsense, hoist the hyperbole flag. I'm still waiting for sanity on my question about the graduated tax code. Just page back one page and see how that answer went.

Quite frankly this entire thread is just extreme right hyperbole. No one has come up with a single shred of credible evidence that "progressives" are "uber-communist fascists" but they are all convinced that these mythical boogiemen exist under their beds. As soon as you try to pin them down to something specific, such as your graduated tax code, it becomes a game of whack-a-whackjob.

Why this thread isn't in the FZ is beyond me because that is where it belongs in my opinion.

 

[Contumacious]

What is a "Progressive"?

There posts will state that

Quite frankly this entire thread is just extreme right hyperbole. No one has come up with a single shred of credible evidence that "progressives" are "uber-communist fascists" but they are all convinced that these mythical boogiemen exist under their beds. As soon as you try to pin them down to something specific, such as your graduated tax code, it becomes a game of whack-a-whackjob.

In a nutshell, they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground or are willing to exchange freedom for government benefits.

.