Zone1 What Is Baptism Of The Spirit?

[onefour1]

But Jesus had no sin. Therefore his baptism wasn't for remission of sin.

That is why I said that he did baptism to show us the way and not for the remission of sin. It was so important of an ordinance that he showed us by example what we need to do even though he didn't really need it for himself.

 

[BS Filter]

That is why I said that he did baptism to show us the way and not for the remission of sin.

So water cleanses us from sin?

 

[onefour1]

So water cleanses us from sin?

Water does not cleanse us from sin. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can forgive sin. The Lord is willing to forgive the sins of those who are baptized by entering the covenant of baptism. Baptism is a representation of being reborn again by being buried in the water (which is a kind of representation of the grave) and then coming out alive again. We covenant to seek to keep the commandments of God and as we fall into sin we covenant to repent and seek forgiveness of our sins. Baptism is a fresh start and an ordinance of a new beginning by receiving a one time forgiveness and thereafter promising to seek forgiveness through repentance of any future sins we may commit. Baptism is a sign of entering the strait and narrow path that the Lord has defined in his gospel.

 

[BS Filter]

Water does not cleanse us from sin. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can forgive sin. The Lord is willing to forgive the sins of those who are baptized by entering the covenant of baptism. Baptism is a representation of being reborn again by being buried in the water (which is a kind of representation of the grave) and then coming out alive again. We covenant to seek to keep the commandments of God and as we fall into sin we covenant to repent and seek forgiveness of our sins. Baptism is a fresh start and an ordinance of a new beginning by receiving a one time forgiveness and thereafter promising to seek forgiveness through repentance of any future sins we may commit. Baptism is a sign of entering the strait and narrow path that the Lord has defined in his gospel.

So you’re saying we aren't forgiven of sins until we get baptized?

 

[Meriweather]

So water cleanses us from sin?

Are you aware of Quaker beliefs? One of my ancestors was a Quaker who lived in Puritan times. Quakers believe all of life is a sacrament and so they do not practice any. Often their gatherings are sitting in silence, awaiting the Holy Spirit. At that time they might speak a word if moved to do so.

Quakers believed that while baptism was necessary in Jesus' time, they eschewed it as they do all sacraments due to the hypocrisy they saw in so many who were baptized.

With all of life a sacrament, the Holy Spirit can come upon one at any time.

 

[onefour1]

So you’re saying we aren't forgiven of sins until we get baptized?

The Lord will forgive whomever He wishes to forgive, but he has told us that without receiving baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, we cannot enter the kingdom of God. That is clear in John 3:5

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So it is my belief that if you do not get baptized and receive the gift the Holy Ghost you won't be forgiven to the point of being able to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[BS Filter]

The Lord will forgive whomever He wishes to forgive, but he has told us that without receiving baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, we cannot enter the kingdom of God. That is clear in John 3:5

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So it is my belief that if you do not get baptized and receive the gift the Holy Ghost you won't be forgiven to the point of being able to enter the kingdom of God.

I don't believe that. My Bible says the blood of Jesus washes me clean from sin by faith in what Jesus did, His death, burial and resurrection. I'm saved and forgiven by faith. Too many Scriptures back that up. I think your interpretation of John 3:5 is mistaken.

 

[onefour1]

I don't believe that. My Bible says the blood of Jesus washes me clean from sin by faith in what Jesus did, His death, burial and resurrection. I'm saved and forgiven by faith. Too many Scriptures back that up. I think your interpretation of John 3:5 is mistaken.

How do you interpret John 3:5? What does it mean to you to be born of the water and of the spirit? Do you believe the words of Jesus that you must fulfill being born of water and the spirit to enter the kingdom of God? How do you interpret it?

 

[BS Filter]

How do you interpret John 3:5? What does it mean to you to be born of the water and of the spirit? Do you believe the words of Jesus that you must fulfill being born of water and the spirit to enter the kingdom of God? How do you interpret it?

The water is either natural birth or washing by the Word. If John meant baptism he would have used the word "baptism" since he did in other verses.

 

[Clyde 154]

So water cleanses us from sin?

What part of the scriptures do you fail to comprehend? There is not one passage of scripture where one is conveyed into the kingdom/church without Water Baptism. We are BAPTIZED into Christ........into the body, the church, the kingdom. There is no salvation without being baptized INTO CHRIST. "For as many of you that have been BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST, have put on Christ." -- Gal. 3:27. Its through FAITH that BAPTISM conveys one into the body (the church/kingdom that Christ was given by the Father) of Christ -- Gal. 3:25. Demonstrating that it takes both faith and works.......they do not contradict, one compliments the other......both are important to salvation. Its not Water Baptism alone that saves......to the non-believer, it's just a dip in the water and is meaningless.

Again. Salvation is a process. 1.) Faith/belief is required. You have to believe in your heart that Jesus is the Son of God (Matt.16:16, John 6:69). You must believe that He was sent from Heaven as the only means of salvation for all men because no man is righteous in and by himself.......no one deserves to be saved because no one can live a sin free life as did Jesus Christ in order to fulfill the requirements of the Old Law 2.) You must repent/turn away from sin, or you will perish in your sins (Luke 13:3). 3.) You must confess in your heart that Jesus indeed is the Son of the living God (Romans 10:9, 1 Tim. 6:12), Romans 10:9 clearly states that you SHALL (future tense) be saved if you confess Jesus, not YOU ARE SAVED.

4.) Water Baptism. It is through the act of water Baptism that we come into contact with Jesus Christ which allows His blood to cleanse us of our sins (Romans 6:3-5, 17-18, Gal. 3:26-27, Rev. 1:5). Baptism's very purpose is for, "....the forgiveness of sin." (Acts 2:38, 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21) Its in the water where the old man is buried in a watery grave and a new person is raised up/resurrected to a newness of life within CHRIST (Col. 2:11-14, 2 Cor. 5:17)

5.) lastly.........you must continue to run the race of life in the daily struggle to bring your earthly flesh into submission, you must Fight the Good Fight until the race is over (death) Because even though our spirit is strong and called out from the world...........our flesh must live in the world, therein we are tempted daily. (2 Tim. 4:7-8, 1 Cor. 9:24-27)


Once saved, always saved is a myth.



Faith without works is dead (James 1:25), again the scriptures declare, "Do you want to be shown, you foolish person.......that faith away from works is useless? Was not our father Abraham justified by works when he offered up his son Issac on the alter?" -- James 2:20-21


Water saves through the Faith that is required to preform the required Work of Baptism (not the washing away of filth).........its the Baptism or submersion that represents the death of the old sin filled man......its while in the grave (under the water) that one comes into contact with the saving blood of Jesus Christ, in the fact that He was resurrected from the dead as explained in detail by Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter and Jesus Himself........one has to be born of the water and of the spirit. Romans Chapter 6 "For we have been UNITED WITH HIM (Christ) in a death like His, we shall surely be with him in a resurrection...." (Romans 6:5).

One simply can just say, "I welcome Jesus Christ into My Heart........" As the scriptures declare, show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works." -- James 2:18

 

[BS Filter]

Water saves through the Faith that is required to preform the required Work of Baptism (not the washing away of filth).........its the Baptism or submersion that represents the death of the old sin filled man......its while in the grave (under the water) that one comes into contact with the saving blood of Jesus Christ as explained in detail by Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter and Jesus Himself........one has to be born of the water and of the spirit. Romans Chapter 6

Can you show me the Scripture that says when I'm under the water I come into contact with the blood of Jesus.

 

[onefour1]

The water is either natural birth or washing by the Word. If John meant baptism he would have used the word "baptism" since he did in other verses.

Jesus himself went forth baptizing as well as John the Baptist and the disciples of Jesus. Why did Jesus choose to be baptized with water by the ordinance of immersion by John if it wasn't even necessary for us? Why did he and his disciples go around baptizing others if it wasn't necessary? Why did Peter teach others to be baptized and to receive the Holy Ghost if it wasn't needed?

John 3:22-23
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judæa; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Ænon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So baptism after the manner of Jesus' baptism is not necessary? Why then did Jesus even bother if he himself did not need to be baptized? Why go into the Jordan river and be submerged in water? In John 3:23 above, why did John find Ænon near to Salim such a good place to baptize? It was because there was much water there. Baptism by water is an ordinance of the gospel along with the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Peter, in Acts 10, associates baptism with water:

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

As also Philip:

Acts 8:37-39
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

It was understood by the disciples of Jesus that baptism after the manner that Jesus was baptized is the correct way of baptism. This is why John, Jesus and all the disciples of Jesus baptized others with water. Jesus set the example. He showed us the way. His disciples received it by the same way and they baptized other using the same method.

 

[Meriweather]

This is why John, Jesus and all his disciples of Jesus baptized others.

There is nothing in scripture about Jesus baptizing anyone.

 

[BS Filter]

Jesus himself went forth baptizing as well as John the Baptist and the disciples of Jesus. Why did Jesus choose to be baptized with water by the ordinance of immersion by John if it wasn't even necessary for us? Why did he and his disciples go around baptizing others if it wasn't necessary? Why did Peter teach others to be baptized and to receive the Holy Ghost if it wasn't needed?

John 3:22-23
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judæa; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Ænon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So baptism after the manner of Jesus' baptism is not necessary? Why then did Jesus even bother if he himself did not need to be baptized? Why go into the Jordan river and be submerged in water? In John 3:23 above, why did John find Ænon near to Salim such a good place to baptize? It was because there was much water there. Baptism by water is an ordinance of the gospel along with the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Peter, in Acts 10, associates baptism with water:

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

As also Philip:

Acts 8:37-39
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

It was understood by the disciples of Jesus that baptism after the manner that Jesus was baptized is the correct way of baptism. This is why John, Jesus and all his disciples of Jesus baptized others. Jesus set the example. He showed us the way. His disciples received it by the same way and they baptized other using the same method.

I believe baptism is something every believer should do. However, I believe you're saved if you don't get to do it. I believe in deathbed conversions. Someone dying in an accident and cries out to the Lord, etc.

 

[onefour1]

There is nothing in scripture about Jesus baptizing anyone.

John 3:22
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judæa; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe in deathbed conversions. Someone dying in an accident and cries out to the Lord, etc.

It's not that I disbelieve in deathbed conversions. The problem is how can one change his/her life at that point? What does one hope to gain, and more vital, what has one to give? I always end such musings with, "Nothing is impossible with God."

 

[Road Runner]

I believe baptism is something every believer should do. However, I believe you're saved if you don't get to do it. I believe in deathbed conversions. Someone dying in an accident and cries out to the Lord, etc.

Exactly. Should and required are two entirely different things. Especially with people on their deathbed as pointed out already.

 

[Road Runner]

It's not that I disbelieve in deathbed conversions. The problem is how can one change his/her life at that point? What does one hope to gain, and more vital, what has one to give? I always end such musings with, "Nothing is impossible with God."

It doesn't matter. All it takes is repentance and calling out to Jesus to be saved like the thief on the cross did.

 

[onefour1]

I believe baptism is something every believer should do. However, I believe you're saved if you don't get to do it. I believe in deathbed conversions. Someone dying in an accident and cries out to the Lord, etc.

All who enter the kingdom of God will be baptized as Jesus was baptized, whether by entering the water themselves or by being baptized by proxy through the ordinance of baptism for the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Jesus went among the spirits of the dead and preached the gospel. Proxy baptism was practiced among the saints in the days of Jesus and the apostles.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[BS Filter]

It's not that I disbelieve in deathbed conversions. The problem is how can one change his/her life at that point? What does one hope to gain, and more vital, what has one to give? I always end such musings with, "Nothing is impossible with God."

God's mercy is beyond our understanding.