Zone1 What Is Baptism Of The Spirit?

[Clyde 154]

We pretty much agree with what the purpose of baptism is. However, at the end you said that "truth" was delivered it only has to be delivered once. Well, Paul had to deliver the truth several times to the same people over and over. peole have the tendency to stray from the truth and fall into a state of apostacy. People of Adam eventually did and God swept away the people off the land save it those with Noah. Noah was given the gospel of his time for the people then. But, they fell away and again, one more time he gave the gospel to Abraham. But, alas, the people eventually apostasized again and he put Israel into bondage for 400 years. He then restored the gospel for the people with Moses as the prophet with the lesser law of Moses. But, the people again fell away and the Lord himself had to come off his throne and give part of the higher law to the people after the apostate religious leaders messed up. Then, as Paul said would happen, another apostacy occurred. This time, falling away from the higher law was the cause for a long nearly 1700 years punishment without the fullness of the higher law authority to posses the power or priesthood of God for any ordinances to have any standing in heaven. But, these are the last days and we are coming up to the second coming and the Lord has restored his higher law with the fullness of the Gospel re-establishing his Church again on the earth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Each dispensation of time a Prophet was called by the Godhead and established the lord's gospel truth for their time. Praise the Lord!

Indeed Paul delivered truth many times, in fact Paul is responsible for the majority of the N.T. content. However, Paul was delivering TRUTH in the 1st century.........Jude 3 reads that Truth has been delivered ONCE FOR ALL, "...........you should earnestly content for the truth WHICH WAS "ONCE" DELIVERED UNTO THE SAINTS."

We are warned not to turn away from that truth unto a strange doctrine, even if it is spoken by an angel from heaven.

"But though we (those preaching/teaching), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel (truth/doctrine) unto you than that which we (those preaching/teaching/apostles/saints) have preached unto you. LET HIM BE ACCURSED." -- Gal. 1:8-9.

This passage agrees with the promise made by the Christ to His apostles......that they would be guided INTO ALL TRUTH by the help of the Holy Spirit of Truth, as directed by Jesus after His death....... a gift which the world cannot receive. (John 16:13-15).

All truth was delivered ONCE to the saints of the 1st century, the generation in which the Apostles and those who had been given supernatural gifts of the Spirit.......the Spirit of Truth, by the laying on of the hands of an Apostle....for the mission of establishing Doctrine for the N.T. church. (Acts 8:17-19, 2 Tim. 1:6, 1 Tim. 4:14).....as there is not one example of anyone receiving any Supernatural Gift without the laying on of the Hands of an apostle. In fact, Paul tells us that this method of establishing doctrine from Heaven in a supernatural method would one day FAIL, when that which is PERFECT comes.......not He that is perfect but THAT which is Perfect. (1 Cor. 13)

The Perfect as translated from the Greek means, made hole, complete, the same Greek term is used to explain what that Perfect thing is..........the same word declared, "THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY"....i.e, the completed New Testament Covenant of Christ Jesus (James 1:25)

Jesus promised to His Apostles, in specific, Peter, who was given the keys to the kingdom...i.e., the method to enter the kingdom/church......that his words would bind on earth would be bound in heaven (Matt.16:19) Just as would the words of the other apostles and those disciples gifted by the Spirit of Truth bind doctrine on heaven and heaven (Matt. 18:18)

As far as receiving modern TRUTH.........there is no authority for Truth beyond ALL TRUTH which was delivered once. Its impossible to ad unto ALL and EVERYTHING. The very words of Peter demonstrate as much. "His (Jesus') divine power has given to us ALL THINGS that pertain to life and godliness.....through the knowledge of Him (Jesus Christ)." -- 2 Peter 1:3

This agrees with the Apostles' statement that God, "Would have all men saved by coming to the knowledge of the Truth" -- 1 Tim. 2:4

There is no need for more knowledge as ALL THINGS have been provided that would lead men into ALL TRUTH as recorded in scripture by those commissioned by the Christ to do just that..........provide the Gift of the Spirit.........TRUTH from Heaven, that was the very mission of Jesus Christ, and to declare that He failed and did not deliver ALL TRUTH to those who earnestly seek it, is a type of Blasphemy.

There is not one example today of any modern day miracle to confirm NEW DOCTRINE......the word/scriptures were accompanied by signs and wonders to confirm that word was truth from heaven. There are no modern day miracles, no one is being raised by the Dead, the blind from birth given new vision, the cripple from birth made whole, no walking on water, no......not one confirmed and witnessed modern day miracle that can't be objectively explained by our natural laws of physics.

 

[Clyde 154]

Baptism is a Jewish ritual; Jesus was a practicing Jew, so he was baptized.

History of baptism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Although the term "baptism" is not used to describe the Jewish rituals, the purification rites in Halakha, Jewish law and tradition, called tvilah, have some similarity to baptism, and the two have been linked. The tvilah is the act of immersion in naturally-sourced water, called a mikva.[2][unreliable source?][3] In the past Hebrew Bible and other Jewish texts, immersion in water for ritual purification was established for restoration to a condition of "ritual purity" in specific circumstances. For example, Jews who (according to the Law of Moses) became ritually defiled by contact with a corpse had to use the mikvah before being allowed to participate in the Holy Temple. Immersion is required for converts to Judaism.[4] Immersion in the mikvah represents a change in status in regards to purification, restoration, and qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community, ensuring that the cleansed person will not impose uncleanness on property or its owners.[5][non-primary source needed][6] It did not become customary,[7] however, to immerse converts to Judaism until after the Babylonian Captivity (586–539 BCE).[8] This change of status by the mikvah could be obtained repeatedly, while Christian baptism, like circumcision, is, in the general view of Christians, unique and not repeatable.[9] Even the so-called rebaptism by some Christian denominations is not seen by them as a repetition of an earlier valid baptism and is viewed by them as not itself repeatable.[citation needed]

During the Second Temple period (c. 516 BCE–70 CE), the Greek noun baptmos was used to refer to ritual washing in Hellenistic Judaism.[citatio

Galatians 3:27-29 - Baptism

catholicidentity.bne.catholic.edu.au

Christians are a Jewish sect. Reading the book of Galatians will clear a lot of this up, especially the closing points of that book. Galatians 3:26-29 makes it clear that Christians are as much the 'seed of Abraham' as anyone else.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Universalism is implicit in monotheism. The Hebrewism of Moses has nothing at all to do with ethnicity or tribalism.

After the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross of the Christ (Col. 2:14)........the requirement for water baptism remained, in fact Peter declared that one could not enter the kingdom and receive the GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT (truth) without, Repenting and being bapized in the Name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38), and on that day about 3000 souls (all who had been baptized) were added into the kingdom of God/the church. -- Acts 2:41

In fact there is not one example of anyone being saved/conveyed into the church/kingdom without Water Baptism in the entirely of the N.T. Some attempt to ask, What about the thief on the cross? Jesus was alive and the Old Law of Moses was still in effect until Jesus declared with His last breath, "IT IS FINISHED". (John 19:30), it was at that time that the Old Law of Moses was fulfilled. It was Jesus (God incarnate) that saved this man and declared he would be in paradise that day. Unless you think that Jesus is going to come down from His throne in heaven and personally grant you a pardon for all your sins you are misguided, as we all know that God does not hear the prayers of the sinner. (John 9:31) Its hard to do the will of God with your last breath after living in sin all your life. The will of God declares that you must be baptized (Acts 2:38)


Peter was given the keys to the kingdom/church and his words bound on earth would was to be bound in heaven (Matt. 16:18, 18:18) and his words bound in heaven, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.........) Acts 2:38, just as Jesus declared, you must be baptized in the name of the Godhead, The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matt:28-18-19). Anyone not born again of the Water and the Spirit, cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5) Peter declared that once you entered the kingdom by baptism in the name of the Lord, you would receive the GIFT OF THE SPIRIT.

 

[DudleySmith]

Baptists' take on baptism:

Baptists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Qualification for membership​

Membership policies vary due to the autonomy of churches, but generally an individual becomes a member of a church through believer's baptism (which is a public profession of faith in Jesus, followed by immersion baptism).[60]

Most baptists do not believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation, but rather a public expression of one's inner repentance and faith.[6] Therefore, some churches will admit into membership persons who make a profession without believer's baptism.[61]

In general, Baptist churches do not have a stated age restriction on membership, but believer's baptism requires that an individual be able to freely and earnestly profess their faith.[62] (See Age of Accountability)

Personally I don't see any point in baptizing babies, but as long as they don't drown or something to each their own.

Believer's baptism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Arguments for credobaptism​

Scripture​

Advocates of believer's baptism argue that the New Testament does not describe instances of infant baptism, and that during the New Testament era, the early church required converts to have conscious, deliberate faith in Jesus Christ.[65]

Advocates for believer's baptism use Acts 2 to support their view, where Peter commanded to believe before baptism took place. Credobaptists also argue that Jesus' baptism as an adult, and not as an infant, is supportive of believer's baptism.[66]

Gavin Ortlund argued that the parallel with circumcision supports believer's baptism, arguing that since circumcision was given to the children of Abraham (Genesis 17:9) and that in the New Testament, only believers are called sons of Abraham (Galatians 3:7), thus supporting believer's baptism.[67]

Age of accountability​

Believer's baptism by immersion at Eastside Christian Church, Anaheim, United States, 2018

Believer's baptism is administered only to persons who have passed the age of accountability or reason, which is based upon a reading of the New Testament that only believers should be baptized. The believer's full understanding is verified by leaders when a believer makes a profession of faith before baptism.[68]

In practice, this age generally corresponds to the beginning of adolescence, around 12 years in Anabaptist churches and 9 to 12 years in Baptist churches.[69][70]

This understanding of the age of responsibility is analogous to the Jewish tradition of Bar Mitzvah at the age of 12 or 13, at which point Jewish children become responsible for their actions and "one to whom the commandments apply".[71]

In churches practicing believer's baptism, the age of accountability may have been set higher or lower depending on their traditional practices and their understanding of the psychological development of children.[68]

 

[Clyde 154]

Baptists' take on baptism:

Baptists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Qualification for membership​

Membership policies vary due to the autonomy of churches, but generally an individual becomes a member of a church through believer's baptism (which is a public profession of faith in Jesus, followed by immersion baptism).[60]

Most baptists do not believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation, but rather a public expression of one's inner repentance and faith.[6] Therefore, some churches will admit into membership persons who make a profession without believer's baptism.[61]

In general, Baptist churches do not have a stated age restriction on membership, but believer's baptism requires that an individual be able to freely and earnestly profess their faith.[62] (See Age of Accountability)

Personally I don't see any point in baptizing babies, but as long as they don't drown or something to each their own.

Believer's baptism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Arguments for credobaptism​

Scripture​

Advocates of believer's baptism argue that the New Testament does not describe instances of infant baptism, and that during the New Testament era, the early church required converts to have conscious, deliberate faith in Jesus Christ.[65]

Advocates for believer's baptism use Acts 2 to support their view, where Peter commanded to believe before baptism took place. Credobaptists also argue that Jesus' baptism as an adult, and not as an infant, is supportive of believer's baptism.[66]

Gavin Ortlund argued that the parallel with circumcision supports believer's baptism, arguing that since circumcision was given to the children of Abraham (Genesis 17:9) and that in the New Testament, only believers are called sons of Abraham (Galatians 3:7), thus supporting believer's baptism.[67]

Age of accountability​

Believer's baptism by immersion at Eastside Christian Church, Anaheim, United States, 2018

Believer's baptism is administered only to persons who have passed the age of accountability or reason, which is based upon a reading of the New Testament that only believers should be baptized. The believer's full understanding is verified by leaders when a believer makes a profession of faith before baptism.[68]

In practice, this age generally corresponds to the beginning of adolescence, around 12 years in Anabaptist churches and 9 to 12 years in Baptist churches.[69][70]

This understanding of the age of responsibility is analogous to the Jewish tradition of Bar Mitzvah at the age of 12 or 13, at which point Jewish children become responsible for their actions and "one to whom the commandments apply".[71]

In churches practicing believer's baptism, the age of accountability may have been set higher or lower depending on their traditional practices and their understanding of the psychological development of children.[68]

Does it surprise anyone that a "denomination" does not adhere to the doctrine located in the word of God? One can believe anything they want but that does not make it truth. Again......there is a simple method to test for denominations or false religions. They promote as a stated "Belief" a different Gospel than that found in the Word of God.

As stated, it was Peter, not John the Baptist, that was given the keys to the kingdom of Christ....i.e., the church given to the Christ by the Father (Matthew 16, 28:18) Peter's word would bind on earth that which was to be bound in heaven (Matt.16:19). What did Peter bind with His words? When asked what must be done to be forgiven for sins, "Repent and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ". (Acts 2:38) NOWHERE in the N.T. record, a record left behind by the Apostles of Christ so that future generations would come to the knowledge of the Truth -- 2 Peter 1:15, is there an example of anyone being granted entrance into the N.T. kingdom/church without being baptized in water.

Even DEMONS BELIEVE with fear and trembling -- James 2:19. Believing something does not make it comply with the commands of Jesus. "If you love me you will obey My word....." -- There will be many "on that day" (Judgment) that will declare, "Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? and then I will profess unto them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you that practice lawlessness." -- Matthew 7:21-23. Clearly not everyone shall enter the kingdom of Christ, only those who do the will of the Father.

We are to be judged on THAT DAY (final judgment) by comparing our lives against the words of Christ. (John 12:48)

As Christians we are told to "TEST ALL THINGS"......looking for false doctrines. 1 Thess. 5:21-22. How do you test for false doctrine.... hold unto SOUND DOCTRINE...where is sound doctrine found? In the Holy Scriptures. "For a time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves, teachers, in accordance of their own desires." -- 2 Tim. 4:3.

This being SAVED by simply asking Jesus to come into your heart is man made tradition........invented for the purpose of taking advantage of the gullible. Its a most difficult thing to declare, God loves you but send your money to MY ADDRESS........, in the attempt to convince someone they are saved by simple prayer without any works whatsoever.........its hard to Baptize the gullible live on tv and ask for their money in the same breath......thus, Baptism is omitted from the money making equation........some pretend they are obeying the Gospel by sprinkling water on the face.........but that does not represent the grave at all.....especially when its preformed on infants who have no comprehension as to the act itself.....infants/children are innocent until they reach the age of reason and can fully comprehend the difference between good and evil, righteousness and unrighteousness. Its all about the money, power and greed.

The will of God is stated quite clearly with no ambiguity whatsoever, "Jesus answered, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.............Except a man be born of THE WATER and of THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter the kingdom of the kingdom of God....." -- John 3:3-8. Clearly, Jesus is not addressing natural birth or the breaking of water that comes with natural birth, ".......that which is born of the flesh is of the flesh.......that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit.


The Spirit of Truth was given to the Apostles of Christ after His death, as promised by Jesus Himself (John 16:13).......what did this Spirit of Truth convey to Peter? The requirement of Water Baptism (Acts 2:38)

 

[Cougarbear]

Indeed Paul delivered truth many times, in fact Paul is responsible for the majority of the N.T. content. However, Paul was delivering TRUTH in the 1st century.........Jude 3 reads that Truth has been delivered ONCE FOR ALL, "...........you should earnestly content for the truth WHICH WAS "ONCE" DELIVERED UNTO THE SAINTS."

We are warned not to turn away from that truth unto a strange doctrine, even if it is spoken by an angel from heaven.

"But though we (those preaching/teaching), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel (truth/doctrine) unto you than that which we (those preaching/teaching/apostles/saints) have preached unto you. LET HIM BE ACCURSED." -- Gal. 1:8-9.

This passage agrees with the promise made by the Christ to His apostles......that they would be guided INTO ALL TRUTH by the help of the Holy Spirit of Truth, as directed by Jesus after His death....... a gift which the world cannot receive. (John 16:13-15).

All truth was delivered ONCE to the saints of the 1st century, the generation in which the Apostles and those who had been given supernatural gifts of the Spirit.......the Spirit of Truth, by the laying on of the hands of an Apostle....for the mission of establishing Doctrine for the N.T. church. (Acts 8:17-19, 2 Tim. 1:6, 1 Tim. 4:14).....as there is not one example of anyone receiving any Supernatural Gift without the laying on of the Hands of an apostle. In fact, Paul tells us that this method of establishing doctrine from Heaven in a supernatural method would one day FAIL, when that which is PERFECT comes.......not He that is perfect but THAT which is Perfect. (1 Cor. 13)

The Perfect as translated from the Greek means, made hole, complete, the same Greek term is used to explain what that Perfect thing is..........the same word declared, "THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY"....i.e, the completed New Testament Covenant of Christ Jesus (James 1:25)

Jesus promised to His Apostles, in specific, Peter, who was given the keys to the kingdom...i.e., the method to enter the kingdom/church......that his words would bind on earth would be bound in heaven (Matt.16:19) Just as would the words of the other apostles and those disciples gifted by the Spirit of Truth bind doctrine on heaven and heaven (Matt. 18:18)

As far as receiving modern TRUTH.........there is no authority for Truth beyond ALL TRUTH which was delivered once. Its impossible to ad unto ALL and EVERYTHING. The very words of Peter demonstrate as much. "His (Jesus') divine power has given to us ALL THINGS that pertain to life and godliness.....through the knowledge of Him (Jesus Christ)." -- 2 Peter 1:3

This agrees with the Apostles' statement that God, "Would have all men saved by coming to the knowledge of the Truth" -- 1 Tim. 2:4

There is no need for more knowledge as ALL THINGS have been provided that would lead men into ALL TRUTH as recorded in scripture by those commissioned by the Christ to do just that..........provide the Gift of the Spirit.........TRUTH from Heaven, that was the very mission of Jesus Christ, and to declare that He failed and did not deliver ALL TRUTH to those who earnestly seek it, is a type of Blasphemy.

There is not one example today of any modern day miracle to confirm NEW DOCTRINE......the word/scriptures were accompanied by signs and wonders to confirm that word was truth from heaven. There are no modern day miracles, no one is being raised by the Dead, the blind from birth given new vision, the cripple from birth made whole, no walking on water, no......not one confirmed and witnessed modern day miracle that can't be objectively explained by our natural laws of physics.

Again, I'm not doubting anything you write. However, just taking one point, 1Cor. 15:29. That is truth. Jesus went to preach to the dead in spirit prison (1Peter chapter 3). And, why would he do that if the truth is that the only way to the Kingdom of God is through water baptism here on earth and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (baptism by fire)? See the connection? I do. Vicarious baptisms for the dead who did not have the opportunity to hear, see or read the truth trough all generations of time on earth. So, where is that in those you say carry on from the 1st Century this truth of baptisms for the dead? There is much that has been lost through mistranslation, losing books and letters of prophets and apostles throughout biblical times and just plain complete apostacy for centuries, millennium.
So, with this in mind, how can these truths that have been lost be restored to OUR knowledge in these latter days? The answer is simple. The Godhead will reveal his secrets lost only through a prophet. Amos 3:7. It's the only way.

 

[DudleySmith]

Does it surprise anyone that a "denomination" does not adhere to the doctrine located in the word of God? One can believe anything they want but that does not make it truth. Again......there is a simple method to test for denominations or false religions. They promote as a stated "Belief" a different Gospel than that found in the Word of God.

Obviously you can't read. I'm sure you wish everybody else is wrong and only you know The Truth, but you obviously don't. WE look forward to your YouTube shows where you walk on water and heal the lepers.

 

[Cougarbear]

Does it surprise anyone that a "denomination" does not adhere to the doctrine located in the word of God? One can believe anything they want but that does not make it truth. Again......there is a simple method to test for denominations or false religions. They promote as a stated "Belief" a different Gospel than that found in the Word of God.

Well, the Gospel you promote lacks anything about baptizing the dead. How about the "stick of Joseph (Ephraim) or book of Joseph (Ephraim) to become one with the stick or book of Judah (Bible) as stated in Ezekiel chapter 37? Where is that other book in your Gospel? Do you have the two Priesthoods after the Order of Melchizedek and Aaron as written in Hebrews Chapter 7? I don't disagree with you about the word "Denominations." But, it's generally used to describe as other members of the body of Christ. As far as I know, most of the 40,000 sects of Christianity use mostly the same bible.

 

[Clyde 154]

Again, I'm not doubting anything you write. However, just taking one point, 1Cor. 15:29. That is truth. Jesus went to preach to the dead in spirit prison (1Peter chapter 3). And, why would he do that if the truth is that the only way to the Kingdom of God is through water baptism here on earth and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (baptism by fire)? See the connection? I do. Vicarious baptisms for the dead who did not have the opportunity to hear, see or read the truth trough all generations of time on earth. So, where is that in those you say carry on from the 1st Century this truth of baptisms for the dead? There is much that has been lost through mistranslation, losing books and letters of prophets and apostles throughout biblical times and just plain complete apostacy for centuries, millennium.
So, with this in mind, how can these truths that have been lost be restored to OUR knowledge in these latter days? The answer is simple. The Godhead will reveal his secrets lost only through a prophet. Amos 3:7. It's the only way.

Jesus went to preach to the spirits of the dead in Hades.........a spiritual realm where the spirits of both, the righteous and the unrighteous reside awaiting final judgment (Revelation 20:13), consisting of 2 different abodes, one for the righteous that Jesus called paradise and the other a realm of the unrighteous who dwell there in torment. At the time Jesus went to this spiritual realm there was no New Testament Covenant and all those who had historically died were under the terms of the Old Covenant.......... explained in parable (Luke 16).

there was no eternal remedy for sin.......all sins were carried over from year to year through ritual sacrifices....aka, burnt offerings according to the rules established by the Levites. Even though they were righteous (those who attempted to live under the OLD LAWS)....there still was a needed requirement for the atoning blood of the Messiah to prepare those righteous spirits for eternity.......the Blood of Jesus therefore flows both backward and forward. The scriptures tell us that God had a plan for salvation to be offered to all mankind by coming to the knowledge of the truth, that salvation would be offered through the birth, life, death/sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Gods only begotten Son John 3:16).....even before the worlds were formed or time itself began (1 Peter 1:20, 2 Tim. 1:9). This plan was hidden from mankind and even from the prophets who foretold of it until God determined a time for its revelation (the mystery explained -- Eph. 3:1-6) delivered by the Holy Spirit of God.

Its obvious the dead could not come into contact with the Blood of Christ through water baptism...thus the need for Jesus' spirit to go to Hades and preach salvation to the righteous...that they who practiced under the Old Law could be justified not by animal sacrifices but through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.....Christ Jesus. When Jesus arose from His grave after 3 days, Jesus was the first natural born man to defeat death and Hades, referred to as The first born of the brotherhood known today as Christians. The Scriptures compare those who were preached to by Christs' Spirit in the realm of Hades to those saved, again, in symbolic comparison to water baptism...as the 8 who were saved where also saved by water (Noah and his family) Peter references this passage when comparing water baptism to the spiritual baptism preached by Jesus to those who were saved in the days of Noah. There were only 8 righteous souls when the great flood reboted humanity (1 Peter 3:21)

1 Peter 3:18-20 explains that Jesus went to this realm while in the grave through THE SPIRIT (meaning His body never left the grave) as there was a promise that Jesus body would never see corruption. Explained in (Acts 13:37)

The reality? Why did Jesus' spirit go to Hades and preach? God watches over the righteous and hears their prayers (1 Peter 3:12) even though the spirits of the dead were in Hades God was watching over the spirits of the righteous and created a great gulf/void between the 2 abodes in Hades where the righteous could not come into contact with the unrighteous, one group of the dead, the righteous were resting in Paradise in the bosom of Abraham (Luke 16:22) the other in torment where their prayers went unanswered when they asked to give a warning to family members who were still alive, the unrighteous rich man was told it was to late for him, there was a great void fixed between the living and the dead, the righteous and the unrighteous, .......therefore he should have lived by the covenant of Moses and the prophets while he was living. (Luke 16:26-31)

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus went to preach to the spirits of the dead in Hades.........a spiritual realm where the spirits of both, the righteous and the unrighteous reside awaiting final judgment (Revelation 20:13), consisting of 2 different abodes, one for the righteous that Jesus called paradise and the other a realm of the unrighteous who dwell there in torment. At the time Jesus went to this spiritual realm there was no New Testament Covenant and all those who had historically died were under the terms of the Old Covenant.......... explained in parable (Luke 16). ol

Not true. The Saints continued or actually instituted the doctrine of baptisms for the dead. This was a new testament covenant and never mentioned in the OT. I read in an old version of the Catholic Encyclopedia back in 1978 a statement about baptisms for the dead that they once performed this ordinance but lost the method and authority to do this. That paragraph has since been removed from newer additions. Also, Jesus went to spirit prison AFTER he was crucified. Not before. Jesus had already set in motion the New and Everlasting Covenants of His New law(s). You are correct about two holding places concerning spirit prison. I agree with you there. So did Bruce R. McConkie. Paradise and Hell as he put it. Now, from Noah to Moses and from Moses to Jesus Christ, there were some very good people. But, they too may have not been properly baptized either and are awaiting their baptisms while in Paradise. My understanding of this Is what Jesus did was go to Paradise and organize a missionary army to go into Hell and preach the gospel to the unrighteous.

there was no eternal remedy for sin.......all sins were carried over from year to year through ritual sacrifices....aka, burnt offerings according to the rules established by the Levites. Even though they were righteous (those who attempted to live under the OLD LAWS)....there still was a needed requirement for the atoning blood of the Messiah to prepare those righteous spirits for eternity.......the Blood of Jesus therefore flows both backward and forward. The scriptures tell us that God had a plan for salvation to be offered to all mankind by coming to the knowledge of the truth, that salvation would be offered through the birth, life, death/sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Gods only begotten Son John 3:16).....even before the worlds were formed or time itself began (1 Peter 1:20, 2 Tim. 1:9). This plan was hidden from mankind and even from the prophets who foretold of it until God determined a time for its revelation (the mystery explained -- Eph. 3:1-6) delivered by the Holy Spirit of God.

The day of atonement, Yom Kippur. Jesus instituted the doctrine and ordinance of the Sacrament to remember Him and to remind us of our covenants at baptism we made with God. We sin every day. We partake of the Sacraments once a week to ask again to be forgiven and to renew our covenants. To allow Jesus Christ to be present in the room where we take the Sacrament with the doors closed to remind us of when Jesus came to the apostles and disciples in the closed room.

Its obvious the dead could not come into contact with the Blood of Christ through water baptism...thus the need for Jesus' spirit to go to Hades and preach salvation to the righteous...that they who practiced under the Old Law could be justified not by animal sacrifices but through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.....Christ Jesus. When Jesus arose from His grave after 3 days, Jesus was the first natural born man to defeat death and Hades, referred to as The first born of the brotherhood known today as Christians. The Scriptures compare those who were preached to by Christs' Spirit in the realm of Hades to those saved, again, in symbolic comparison to water baptism...as the 8 who were saved where also saved by water (Noah and his family) Peter references this passage when comparing water baptism to the spiritual baptism preached by Jesus to those who were saved in the days of Noah. There were only 8 righteous souls when the great flood reboted humanity (1 Peter 3:21)

Actually, the first followers of Jesus Christ were not named Christians by followers of Jesus Christ. They were called "Saints." That is why Christ's Church today is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day SAINTS. Refer to the above paragraph response on whether Jesus actually preached directly to the disobedient. One paragraph in a book that has little drawn out clarifications and large gaps between times has to be open to not private interpretations but open to all to receive understanding. Alas, the need for current day Prophets and Apostles. Do we have the faith the people had after Jesus Christ crucifixion and seek for knowledge and understanding with faith in his current day Prophets and Apostles? James chapter 1:5 - 8. If any of you lack wisdom.....

 

[Clyde 154]

Not true. The Saints continued or actually instituted the doctrine of baptisms for the dead. This was a new testament covenant and never mentioned in the OT. I read in an old version of the Catholic Encyclopedia back in 1978 a statement about baptisms for the dead that they once performed this ordinance but lost the method and authority to do this. That paragraph has since been removed from newer additions. Also, Jesus went to spirit prison AFTER he was crucified. Not before. Jesus had already set in motion the New and Everlasting Covenants of His New law(s). You are correct about two holding places concerning spirit prison. I agree with you there. So did Bruce R. McConkie. Paradise and Hell as he put it. Now, from Noah to Moses and from Moses to Jesus Christ, there were some very good people. But, they too may have not been properly baptized either and are awaiting their baptisms while in Paradise. My understanding of this Is what Jesus did was go to Paradise and organize a missionary army to go into Hell and preach the gospel to the unrighteous.

The day of atonement, Yom Kippur. Jesus instituted the doctrine and ordinance of the Sacrament to remember Him and to remind us of our covenants at baptism we made with God. We sin every day. We partake of the Sacraments once a week to ask again to be forgiven and to renew our covenants. To allow Jesus Christ to be present in the room where we take the Sacrament with the doors closed to remind us of when Jesus came to the apostles and disciples in the closed room.

Actually, the first followers of Jesus Christ were not named Christians by followers of Jesus Christ. They were called "Saints." That is why Christ's Church today is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day SAINTS. Refer to the above paragraph response on whether Jesus actually preached directly to the disobedient. One paragraph in a book that has little drawn out clarifications and large gaps between times has to be open to not private interpretations but open to all to receive understanding. Alas, the need for current day Prophets and Apostles. Do we have the faith the people had after Jesus Christ crucifixion and seek for knowledge and understanding with faith in his current day Prophets and Apostles? James chapter 1:5 - 8. If any of you lack wisdom.....

You are missing the Mark, look up Sola Scriptura. There is no authorization found in the N.T. to justify using any doctrine from the Old Law save that which is carried forward in the New Testament Law. Example: all the 10 commandments are carried forward as doctrine into the Perfect Law of Liberty......save 1, the doctrine of Sabbath worship on the last day of the week. (Col. 2:16-17)

So ............the Holy Scriptures are false, not you? Faith once delivered by the saints (Jude 3) includes only that which is contained in the Holy Scriptures, the entire revelations found in the N.T. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God" -- Romans 10:17 Once completed, the doctrine presented by the Apostles of Christ........"The perfect (whole complete) law of liberty"...i.e, the N.T. of grace, the kingdom of God (Matt.16) was delivered only 1 time to the generation that was alive during the life time of Jesus Christ.

"And He (Jesus) said unto them (those in the crowd where He was teaching), Verily!, I say unto you, there be some of them standing that stand here, which shall not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God come with power." -- Mark 9:1



Last time I looked, the Holy Scriptures consisted of the O.T. and the N.T.....with the covenant of the O.T. being nailed to the sacrificial cross of Jesus Christ (Col. 2:14) and anyone attempting to "justify" themselves via the content of the O.T. Law have fallen from the saving grace found in the N.T. -- Gal. 5:4

You are twisting the actual content of the Holy Scriptures and attempting to "justify" certain practices still being used from the Old Jewish TRADITIONS. The RCC is filled with such false doctrines.....man made traditions that the POPE claims surpasses the inspired words of Truth from the Holy Spirit of God...i.e, the Holy Scriptures. Jesus chastised the Jewish leadership of His day for engaging in the exact same practice today used by such false cults as the RCC.......using man made traditions to make the actual content of the Law null and void (Matthew 23).........Jesus did not stutter when He made this statement concerning such practices .......

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?" -- Matthew 23:33

What made Jesus so angry when addressing the supposed religious leaders of His day? These supposed religious leaders dressed in the finest clothing and did their works not because its contained in the Law but to be seen of men; they make broad their distinct clothing, dress in bright colors and lay burdens upon those who they are teaching that they themselves do not follow, they love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and chief seats in their temples, enjoy going in public and treated special by men they may encounter.....all this is an outside appearance, ......and they insist upon being called Father, when Jesus declared call no man on earth your religious father........for there is only one Father.....God who is in heaven (Matthew 23:1-9)


Jesus charged them of taking advantage of the widows by making long winded prayers for public display as a pretense (pretending). Inside they are full of extortion and excess of pleasures (sound familiar with all the child rape allegations?) -- Matthew 23:25

They make the laws of God none effect with their man made traditions. (Mark 7:13)

Again..........if Jesus promised ALL TRUTH to His Apostles (John 16:13) to help establish doctrine (binding in heaven that which they bound on earth Matthew 16:19, 18:18)........how can ALL TRUTH be added unto as some of the modern fake religions claim.........false doctrine such as Mormonism, JW, Islam.....etc.? The perfect law of liberty was completed in the 1st century detailing to men though the knowledge transmitted by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit of Truth.....EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO LIFE AND GODLINESS. (2 Peter 1:3). All and EVERYTHING are complete whole, nothing can be added unto PERFECT as in the perfect law of liberty (James 1:25)

 

[Cougarbear]

So ............the Holy Scriptures are false, not you? Faith once delivered by the saints (Jude 3) includes only that which is contained in the Holy Scriptures, the entire revelations found in the N.T. Last time I looked, the Holy Scriptures consisted of the O.T. and the N.T.....with the covenant of the O.T. being nailed to the sacrificial cross of Jesus Christ (Col. 2:14) and anyone attempting to "justify" themselves via the content of the O.T. Law have fallen from the saving grace found in the N.T. -- Gal. 5:4

You are twisting the actual content of the Holy Scriptures and attempting to "justify" certain practices still being used from the Old Jewish TRADITIONS. The RCC is filled with such false doctrines.

You are assuming baptism for the dead is an OT ritual ordinance. There is no reason to assume this. Not is there any inclination that baptism for the dead is evil and not an ordinance after the order of the Son of God. Jesus was clear and you agreed. Eternal life in the kingdom of God can only happen if one is baptized by water and of the spirit. There was no reason for Jesus to go to spirit prison if there was no salvation and exaltation for those people. The law of baptism outlined by Jesus Christ must be done.

 

[Clyde 154]

You are assuming baptism for the dead is an OT ritual ordinance. There is no reason to assume this. Not is there any inclination that baptism for the dead is evil and not an ordinance after the order of the Son of God. Jesus was clear and you agreed. Eternal life in the kingdom of God can only happen if one is baptized by water and of the spirit. There was no reason for Jesus to go to spirit prison if there was no salvation and exaltation for those people. The law of baptism outlined by Jesus Christ must be done.

I assume nothing............is it hard to breath with your head stuck so far up your back end? I present and document everything by Book, Chapter and Verse. I profess to writing or presenting nothing that is not found in the Perfect Law of Liberty......the N.T. covenant of Jesus Christ. Mormonism, Catholicism, Islam or the name for God being limited to Jehovah is not authorized or found in the actual content of the N.T.

 

[Cougarbear]

I assume nothing............is it hard to breath with your head stuck so far up your back end? I present and document everything by Book, Chapter and Verse. I profess to writing or presenting nothing that is not found in the Perfect Law of Liberty......the N.T. covenant of Jesus Christ. Mormonism, Catholicism, Islam or the name for God being limited to Jehovah is not authorized or found in the actual content of the N.T.

It's not me not seeing the light. I have used all verses out of the New Testament as well as pertinent ones in the OT. 1 Peter 3:18-21 and John 3:5 and 1 Cor. 15:29 are all connected. What's keeping you from seeing this? Money?

 

[sealybobo]

You don't need to tear down the religion of others to build yours up. It's the antithesis of the Holy Spirit.

You know I don't buy any organized religion including Christianity. But I did thank God yesterday for such a great day. And no matter what bad happens to me in the future I won't curse him. He doesn't work that way. I was reminded of that when I saw a squirrel crawling on the bike trail with his front two feet because his back half was clearly run over by a bike. Poor thing. If God worked that way he would have moved that squirrel.

I heard this song and thought you'd enjoy? Who am I to expect a savior if I only talk to God when I need a favor?



Great song.

 

[seaofnails]

.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth - “ THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON “ - into your hearts, crying, FATHER, FATHER.

This baptism event signifies our act of faith - in getting baptized.

showing that we have repented and believe upon - Lord Yahashua the Anointing

we accept and receive the Spirit of the Holy = we go down into the water - UNDER THE WATER TO SYMBOLIZE THE DEATH AND BURIAL - we are raised / resurrected - UPWARDS AND OUT OF THE WATER to outwardly show symbolically representing our good conscience toward God

where the holy spirit left the body of Christ when he died and the Holy Spirit again entered his body and he was resurrected

and he was again re - entered by the holy spirit when he was resurrected from the dead and returned to the father - to sit in his fathers throne in the right of God

1Pe 3:20 - 21 as eight souls were saved by water.

Baptism is a " COPY " as a figure / illustration - whereunto even baptism doth also now save us

(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, - but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is when the SPIRIT OF Yahashua The Anointing is dwelling within the believer, by accepting him as our savior and repenting in our hearts.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

God hath sent forth - “ THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON “ - into your hearts, crying, FATHER, FATHER. we are born again, born again - in the spirit - as begotten sons and daughters of God