Zone1 What Is Baptism Of The Spirit?

[Clyde 154]

I agree with almost everything in your post. We disagree on salvation. My belief is salvation by faith alone. I believe baptism is necessary for a declaration of faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, but is not necessary for salvation.

Simple: Present one passage in the N.T of Christ Jesus where anyone was saved without Water Baptism.......just ONE.
Faith alone is USELESS, "Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?" -- James 2:20, "Demons believe there is one God, and tremble....." -- James 2:19

There are 4 passages.....beautifully presented by the Apostles Peter and Paul and the Christ Himself that describe why water baptism is required, the instant effect of water baptism is symbolic for the instant cleansing of one's sins, it represents the place where the sinner actually comes into contract with the sacrificial blood of the Christ, it symbolizes the death of the old person or the grave when being submerged (going under).......only to arise like the Christ did into a new life like a NEW BORN CHILD, totally innocent upon being resurrected from the grave.

(1). "Except a man be born OF WATER (works) AND THE SPIRIT (faith)....HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD (i.e, church and kingdom are used synonymously throughout the scriptures)." -- John 3:5

(2). "The like figure, whereas even baptism DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (like taking a bath) but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." -- 1 Peter 3:21

(3). "Therefore we have been buried with Him (Jesus) through baptism (water) unto death, so that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we to also may walk in newness of life." -- Romans 6:4

The most beautiful and eloquent passage concerning water baptism and how works alone or faith alone are both useless. There is no contradiction, both complement the other, one without the other is dead/useless.

"But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our savior appeared, He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy by washing of regeneration (our spirits are washed and regenerated, sin free) and renewal of the Holy Spirit." -- Titus 3:4-5. Our spirits are RENEWED/REBORN by the same Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead. Where Jesus literally sacrificed His own life.........we must make a symbolic gesture to God and place our old spirit and flesh to death, and be resurrected to walk in newness of life.

There can be no resurrection of the flesh and spirit (works) and (faith)......without first DEATH. No one can be born again (literally).....but one's spirit and flesh can be born again in the symbolic act of water baptism through the faith of the process that is required.


Again......I will ask the simple question, where, within the N.T. scriptures will you find one example of anyone finding salvation void of water baptism? Just one single passage.

Baptism is the last in the ongoing process of salvation.....because baptism is where one is conveyed into the kingdom of the Son. (1 Cor. 1:13-27). Just like Peter declared when asked how one might be saved, he replied, "Repent and be baptized in the Name of Christ Jesus. Salvation comes after the race is over.......after physical death, until that time we are all running in this race called life. (2 Tim. 4:6-8,1 Cor. 9:4) and its very possible to fall from grace, just as Paul lived in fear of he.....himself failing, its a daily struggle but one must run the race to gain the prize.

The process of salvation is recorded in scripture. 1. you must first hear the gospel (or read it in scripture). 2. Believe that Jesus is the Son of God. 3. Repent or turn away from our past sins 4. Confess in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and king of the kingdom 5. lastly, be baptized in water for the remission of sin. No one can enter the kingdom/church of God void of being cleansed of all sin. The kingdom of God is reserved for those who have been called out from the world by placing the old man of sin to death.

 

[Clyde 154]

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius. 1 Cor 1:14.

In context........the passage you presented is showing how disgusted Paul is of the divisions that have arisen among some of the brotherhood of Christ. When you read the entire subject matter in this chapter you will find that some are declaring I am Paul, or I am of Cripus (Peter)........when in reality neither Peter nor Paul are responsible for salvation, they are but agents of the REASON FOR THE SEASON..........Jesus Christ. Neither Peter nor Paul can save anyone. Paul is chastising them.....not making a statement about water baptism, because it does not matter who baptized them, only that they were baptized.

 

[BS Filter]

Simple: Present one passage in the N.T of Christ Jesus where anyone was saved without Water Baptism.......just ONE.
Faith alone is USELESS, "Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?" -- James 2:20, "Demons believe there is one God, and tremble....." -- James 2:19

There are 4 passages.....beautifully presented by the Apostles Peter and Paul and the Christ Himself that describe why water baptism is required, the instant effect of water baptism is symbolic for the instant cleansing of one's sins, it represents the place where the sinner actually comes into contract with the sacrificial blood of the Christ, it symbolizes the death of the old person or the grave when being submerged (going under).......only to arise like the Christ did into a new life like a NEW BORN CHILD, totally innocent upon being resurrected from the grave.

(1). "Except a man be born OF WATER (works) AND THE SPIRIT (faith)....HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD (i.e, church and kingdom are used synonymously throughout the scriptures)." -- John 3:5

(2). "The like figure, whereas even baptism DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (like taking a bath) but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." -- 1 Peter 3:21

(3). "Therefore we have been buried with Him (Jesus) through baptism (water) unto death, so that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we to also may walk in newness of life." -- Romans 6:4

The most beautiful and eloquent passage concerning water baptism and how works alone or faith alone are both useless. There is no contradiction, both complement the other, one without the other is dead/useless.

"But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our savior appeared, He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy by washing of regeneration (our spirits are washed and regenerated, sin free) and renewal of the Holy Spirit." -- Titus 3:4-5. Our spirits are RENEWED/REBORN by the same Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead. Where Jesus literally sacrificed His own life.........we must make a symbolic gesture to God and place our old spirit and flesh to death, and be resurrected to walk in newness of life.

There can be no resurrection of the flesh and spirit (works) and (faith)......without first DEATH. No one can be born again (literally).....but one's spirit and flesh can be born again in the symbolic act of water baptism through the faith of the process that is required.


Again......I will ask the simple question, where, within the N.T. scriptures will you find one example of anyone finding salvation void of water baptism? Just one single passage.

Baptism is the last in the ongoing process of salvation.....because baptism is where one is conveyed into the kingdom of the Son. (1 Cor. 1:13-27). Just like Peter declared when asked how one might be saved, he replied, "Repent and be baptized in the Name of Christ Jesus. Salvation comes after the race is over.......after physical death, until that time we are all running in this race called life. (2 Tim. 4:6-8,1 Cor. 9:4) and its very possible to fall from grace, just as Paul lived in fear of he.....himself failing, its a daily struggle but one must run the race to gain the prize.

The process of salvation is recorded in scripture. 1. you must first hear the gospel (or read it in scripture). 2. Believe that Jesus is the Son of God. 3. Repent or turn away from our past sins 4. Confess in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and king of the kingdom 5. lastly, be baptized in water for the remission of sin. No one can enter the kingdom/church of God void of being cleansed of all sin. The kingdom of God is reserved for those who have been called out from the world by placing the old man of sin to death.

If "born of water" means baptism, why didn't they just use the word "baptism" instead of water? Were the people in the ark saved by the water or the ark?

 

[Clyde 154]

If "born of water" means baptism, why didn't they just use the word "baptism" instead of water? Were the people in the ark saved by the water or the ark?

Why not ask how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? It is in Water where your sins are washed away. ".....and now what tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS...........' -- Acts 22:16 You are yet to present a single passage under the New Testament of Christ Jesus where anyone was saved without being baptized in water.

Peter makes it clear and answers your question, its the water that saved 8 people to include Noah, ".........8 souls were SAVED BY WATER." -- 1 Peter 3:20. Why ask a question that is answered in the very passage you presented? Peter declares that it was the WATER that saved Noah and His household.....not the ark. Even under the O.T........water saved the Jews under Moses at the parting of the Red Sea. (1 Cor. 10:2) The Jews were symbolically baptized into Moses. Its been WATER all throughout the bible that symbolizes salvation.

The answer to your question is straight forward. The Apostle recorded scripture that explains that one is born of the water in water baptism, which symbolizes death, burial and resurrection just like a newborn, without sin. -- Romans chapter 6.

In fact, Paul states the following, "....we were buried with Him (Jesus) by baptism into death, in order that, just like Christ was raised from dead by the glory of the Father......that we may walk IN A NEWNESS OF LIFE. -- Rom. 6:4. One is Born of the Water....to walk in a newness of life. No one can enter the kingdom/church void of being baptized (water) in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:18-19). Jesus Himself makes it clear that He is not speaking of a natural birth but a symbolic new birth (John 3:3-8)

Paul is not stating TRUTH? Then you deny that "All scripture is inspired of God.......(or God breathed scripture into existence in the original Greek text) and is profitable for TEACHING, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, and for training in righteousness, THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE COMPLETE, equipped for all good works." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17


The scriptures define Baptism, and what it means. You have addressed but a single passage, when there are many passages that describe the required baptism as WATER. Clear and unambiguous, "Then Peter declared, CAN ANYONE WITHHOLD WATER.....for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." -- Acts 10:47-48. Peter is making reference to Acts 2:38 when the Holy Spirit had fallen upon them also and the command to enter the kingdom/church were of the same requirements......"Repent and be baptized....." when the masses asked of Peter what must be done to find salvation (Acts 2:37). "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ........" (Acts 2:38)

There is no salvation void of a new birth........and the symbolic death of the old man where sin is buried in death......through Water Baptism. Just as Noah was saved by WATER, baptism now saves us. (1 Peter 3:20-21)


The Holy Spirit fell upon the household of the gentile Roman Soldier (Cornelius) as a sign that Gentiles are to be included and allowed entrance into the kingdom of God. Peter stated as much, (Acts 10:44-48). The Holy Spirit fell upon the house of Cornelius and they began speaking in tongues (different languages, never studied) as did the Apostles when the Spirit fell upon them in Acts 2. But still .......water was required for baptism, "........and there were added that day about 3000 souls." -- Acts 2:41 After water baptism. The Holy Spirit just as in the House of Cornelius had already fallen .....yet the command to be baptized as a requirement still exists.

 

[BS Filter]

Why not ask how man angels can dance on the head of a pin?

The answer to your question is straight forward. The Apostle recorded scripture that explains that one is born of the water in water baptism, which symbolizes death, burial and resurrection just like a newborn, without sin. -- Romans chapter 6.

In fact, Paul states the following, "....we were buried with Him (Jesus) by baptism into death, in order that, just like Christ was raised from dead by the glory of the Father......that we may walk IN A NEWNESS OF LIFE. -- Rom. 6:4. One is Born of the Water....to walk in a newness of life. No one can enter the kingdom/church void of being baptized (water) in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:18-19). Jesus Himself makes it clear that He is not speaking of a natural birth but a symbolic new birth (John 3:3-8)

Paul is not stating TRUTH? Then you deny that "All scripture is inspired of God.......(or God breathed scripture into existence in the original Greek text) and is profitable for TEACHING, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, and for training in righteousness, THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE COMPLETE, equipped for all good works." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17


The scriptures define Baptism, and what it means. You have addressed but a single passage, when there are many passages that describe the required baptism as WATER. Clear and unambiguous, "Then Peter declared, CAN ANYONE WITHHOLD WATER.....for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." -- Acts 10:47-48. Peter is making referring to Acts 2:38 when Holy Spirit had fallen upon them also and the command to enter the kingdom/church were of the same requirements......"Repent and be baptized....." when the masses asked of Peter what must be done to find salvation (Acts 2:37). The Holy Spirit fell upon the household of the gentile Roman Soldiers as a sign that Gentiles are to be included and allowed entrance into the kingdom of God. Peter stated as much, (Acts 10:44-48). The Holy Spirit fell upon the house of Cornelius and they began speaking in tongues (different languages, never studied) as did the Apostles when the Spirit fell upon them in Acts 2. But still .......water was required for baptism, and there were added that day about 3000 souls." -- Acts 2:41

You said it yourself .."symbolism". We agree that water baptism is symbolism and we are are saved by faith. No one in the ark got wet and the Jews crossed the sea on dry ground. The only ones who got baptized were the Egyptians.

 

[Clyde 154]

You said it yourself .."symbolism". We agree that water baptism is symbolism and we are are saved by faith.

It is a required Symbol of FAITH through a Work.......again, present one single passage of the entire N.T. record where anyone was saved void of water baptism. Just one.

One can be baptized numerous times, enough that he/she might know all the fish by name..but, until you realize and agree the reason for this WORK is where one comes into contact with the cleansing blood of our savior (Romans 6), its a useless endeavor. Faith without Works is dead. Again, "........Do you want to be shown, you foolish person that FAITH AWAY FROM WORKS IS USELESS?" -- James 2:20

It takes more that a belief/faith. "Demons believe in God and Tremble......." Are you suggesting that demons are saved because they have faith that God and His Son are real? What are you suggesting? "If you love ME keep My commandments......" -- John 15:10. What did Jesus command? "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.......teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.........." -- Matthew 28:18-20

 

[BS Filter]

It is a required Symbol of FAITH through a Work.......again, present one single passage of the entire N.T. record where anyone was saved void of water baptism. Just one.

One can be baptized numerous times, enough that he/she might know all the fish by name..but, until you realize and agree the reason for this WORK is where one comes into contact with the cleansing blood of our savior (Romans 6), its a useless endeavor. Faith without Works is dead. Again, "........Do you want to be shown, you foolish person that FAITH AWAY FROM WORKS IS USELESS?" -- James 2:20

It take more that a belief/faith. "Demons believe in God and Tremble......." Are you suggesting that demons are saved because they have faith that God and His Son are real? What are you suggesting? "If you love ME keep My commandments......" -- John 15:10. What did Jesus command? "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.......teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.........." -- Matthew 28:18-20

I agree that it is a symbol of faith. The question is are you saved before the water baptism or after?

 

[Clyde 154]

I agree that it is a symbol of faith. The question is are you saved before the water baptism or after?

You can't be born again.....until you are dead. No one is saved void of being conveyed into the kingdom through the a death, burial and resurrection to walk in a newness of life. Peter answered your question We are SAVED by the water because of our FAITH in what it represents........a turning away of the old flesh by becoming a new creature without sin. Water is where the blood of Christ is contacted.....it represents Christ's defeat over death as the first born to defeat death.

There is a process.........Belief is but the first step of the process.......which ends with Water Baptism. 1. Belief/Faith, 2. Confession that Christ is the Son of God 3. Repentance/turning away from sin, and declaring that 4. Jesus can save us if we follow His commandments......that finalize with 5. water baptism and a continued walk in a newness of life.

There is no salvation by faith alone.......just as there is no doctrine of once saved always saved. Even Paul lived in fear that he might come up short and fall from grace. (1 Cor. 9:14-27) The race of life is a daily struggle, we are promised nothing extra in this life we must attempt to discipline our bodies daily to stay in the race until the end when the race of life is over, or as Paul stated, "I fought the good fight, I finished the race, I HAVE KEPT THE FAITH.....(until the end implied) (2 Tim. 4:7)

 

[Cougarbear]

Even Christ Himself—in perhaps His most famous quote—denied the need for works to accomplish salvation: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16

Taking versus out of context is bible bashing. You are good at it but it doesn't lead to truth. James did not disagree with Paul. That's a falsehood. You should read James chapter 2. "Faith without works is dead." Again, faith is an action word. There are people who have faith in Buddha, Faith in gold and silver and so on. Faith in Jesus Christ is not done without works of faith. "Believe" is also intertwined with faith. So, belief isn't sitting on a cloud strumming a harp for eternity. John 3:12, "If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" So, if you believe, then why not receive water and spirit baptisms? I say you don't truly believe nor have the faith required for eternal life is one doesn't follow the instructions of Christ to be baptized by water and of the spirit. It's interesting how you say other verses in John chapter 3 are true yet deny the one verse that is a work or act of belief and faith. Why? It's like baking a loaf of fluffy risen bread with all the ingredients except the yeast. FLAT!

I know why you do it. You don't like organized religions (churches). Someone told you Jesus Christ never had an organized church. That would be false.

 

[BS Filter]

You can't be born again.....until you are dead. No one is saved void of being conveyed into the kingdom through the a death, burial and resurrection to walk in a newness of life. Peter answered your question We are SAVED by the water because of our FAITH in what it represents........a turning away of the old flesh by becoming a new creature without sin. Water is where the blood of Christ is contacted.....it represents Christ's defeat over death as the first born to defeat death.

There is a process.........Belief is but the first step of the process.......which ends with Water Baptism. 1. Belief/Faith, 2. Confession that Christ is the Son of God 3. Repentance/turning away from sin, and declaring that 4. Jesus can save us if we follow His commandments......that finalize with 5. water baptism and a continued walk in a newness of life.

There is no salvation by faith alone.......just as there is no doctrine of once saved always saved. Even Paul lived in fear that he might come up short and fall from grace. (1 Cor. 9:14-27) The race of life is a daily struggle, we are promised nothing extra in this life we must attempt to discipline our bodies daily to stay in the race until the end when the race of life is over, or as Paul stated, "I fought the good fight, I finished the race, I HAVE KEPT THE FAITH.....(until the end implied) (2 Tim. 4:7)

So is my faith to be in the water, the blood or both?

 

[Cougarbear]

the theif wasn't baptized.

Actually, I believe he has been vicariously. 1Corinthians 15:29. The disciples and apostles were there and heard. So, I'm sure they did his work for him.
But, as to the verse you use, we know that the honest thief repentant thief was going to paradise, a waiting station for the good people of the earth until their judgment and resurrection. How he got there from the cross to paradise is another question. Did he go to the other place first to pay his restitution for a time until someone did his baptism for him. It's so great to have true prophets that still communicate with the Godhead in these latter days.

 

[Cougarbear]

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius. 1 Cor 1:14.

And, how do you justify your interpretation when it goes up against Jesus Christ's own words in John 3:5. Now, you might read the preceding words before verse 14 to understand what Paul was saying. Note in verse 13, Paul was asking who were you baptized in the name of? Paul, Apollos, Cephas? No. they were baptized by two persons who had the authority to baptize, Crispus and Gaius. In verse 17, Paul said he was not there to perform the baptisms himself. That was for the two mentioned to do. Paul was their to do missionary work and with the Holy Ghost, preach and teach the word bringing people to the waters of baptism. I invite you to read the entire chapters instead of going to some topical guide and pull out verses out of context with the, the book and the New Testament and the entire Bible (Old Testament).

 

[Cougarbear]

I agree with almost everything in your post. We disagree on salvation. My belief is salvation by faith alone. I believe baptism is necessary for a declaration of faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, but is not necessary for salvation.

I actually agree with you. As long as the faith is backed by one's works as James put it. By the way, there is a difference between "salvation" and "exaltation or eternal life." There are three degrees of heavenly glory (mansions) as stated in 1Cor chapter 15. The two lower levels of glory, Terrestrial and Stars (Telestial) is where the "Saved with salvation" will reside. But, the Celestial level of glory is the Eternal Kingdom of God through exaltation where those who are baptized by water and of the spirit will reside as long as they live up to their baptismal covenants and any other covenants God gives to mankind. The Lord was clear in John 3:5 that ONLY through the act or work of baptism can one enter into that Celestial kingdom of God.

 

[Cougarbear]

You said it yourself .."symbolism". We agree that water baptism is symbolism and we are are saved by faith. No one in the ark got wet and the Jews crossed the sea on dry ground. The only ones who got baptized were the Egyptians.

The question begs, why are you so afraid to get wet and follow the Lord's commandment to enter the kingdom of God. Baptism is not just symbolism. It's the "Key" to unlock the door to the highest degree glory in the kingdom of God. (1Cor. chapter 15). The water isn't the symbolism anyway. It's the emersion under the water that symbolized the death and re-birth. It's the act of faith with works that is alive in the ordinance of baptism.

 

[Cougarbear]

So is my faith to be in the water, the blood or both?

Why either or? Your faith is in Jesus Christ and his atonement. However, if you have faith in Jesus Christ, then you also would have complete faith in his words to be baptized by water and of the spirit too. Clyde 154 has outlined this perfectly. James said it as well that faith without your works is dead and cannot be approved in heaven. Why such resistance to be baptized unless you don't believe there is anyone like John the Baptist today who has the authority to do so?

 

[Cougarbear]

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In this verse Jesus tells us that unless you are baptized with water and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Baptism is an essential ordinance and so is the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Hands by one having authority to perform those ordinances. For this reason Peter taught:

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Regarding works, works do not save us but they are required and we were born into this life to do good works. It is Jesus that sets the requirement that we must be born of the water and spirit before we can enter the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You cannot even have a true faith without good works.

James 2:14-26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Thus faith requires good works and it is by grace that we are saved through faith, but not of ourselves. The works are required but they do not save us. Jesus saves us through his atoning sacrifice but it is he that requires the works at our hands.

Ephesian 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are not saved by works but they are required for us to do.

That's really great! Well Done! Why do people get so confused about the requirement of our works to show our faith by getting wet? Are they afraid of the water?

 

[Cougarbear]

I am a Christian..........I do not believe in denominations. I accept the Holy Scriptures only as doctrine, in a Sola Scriptura manner.
There is no authorization for "denominations" within the pages of the Holy Scriptures.

Christ founded but one church (Matthew 16:18). Christ is the head of the church and the one church is identified by His name, thus I am a Christian (Eph. 1:22-23)......the body, i.e., the church belongs to only one....Christ Jesus.

As head of the church/Kingdom of God....Jesus desired unity.......all citizens/members of the church/kingdom should be as one (John 17:20-21)

The scriptures teach that the Godhead consists of 3 beings; The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost. Yet, they are united in work, nature, and purpose; there is a complete ONENESS, to enter the kingdom/church Jesus declares the only method to be conveyed into the kingdom is to be baptized not only into Christ, but also in the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit (Matt.28:18-19)........the same for the tradition of a Christian family, the husband, wife and children are different people......but all should work for the common good and purpose as 1 family. (Matthew 19:6)

Denominations are the work of the god of this world........confuse, divide and conquer. Thus the only method to test the spirits is by calibrating your FAITH by the words inspired by the Holy Spirit of Truth.......that the world cannot receive (John 14:17). That is the only method to submerge one'self in the Holy Spirit, there is nothing supernatural about it, "Study to show yourself approved unto God; a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -- 2 Tim. 2:15)

If you study and submerge yourself into the Holy Scriptures........what other spirit lives and resides within you, other than the Spirit of Truth, if you allow your life to be directed by the content of the Scriptures as provided to kingdom of God by the Holy Ghost?

There are only 3 gifts of the Spirit remaining today, "Faith, Hope, and Charity/Love.......with love being the greatest of the gifts........" -- 1 Cor. 13:1-13 The "perfect" has been completed, finished since the 1st century A.D........doctrine/faith has been delivered ONCE by the saints of the 1st century (Jude 3)..........through the knowledge revealed through Jesus and transmitted to men by the Holy Spirit of Truth as directed by Christ Jesus, God has given us EVERYTHING THAT PERTAINS TO LIFE AND GODLINESS........." -- 2 Peter 1:3

The perfect is the "perfect law of liberty".....i.e., the N.T. covenant of Christ Jesus (James 1:25)

I like your post. It's spot on! Well put! So, it's either the Catholic Church or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It's either the perpetuation from former days or the restoration in these the latter days of the former Church established by Jesus Christ. I believe all that you wrote was lost by the time the Roman Catholic Church was formally organized. Apostasy that Paul wrote about had taken place. For Jesus Christ to continue His Church in these latter days, to overcome the apostacy, He needed to restore His Church. Thus, denominations and offshoots of the original church have no standing either. Apostles and Prophets were necessary to retore the Church as he did in His days on earth and shortly after with the original apostles. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the restored Church by Jesus Christ Himself through the Prophet Joseph Smith. That is my testimony. You have a great gift to write.

 

[onefour1]

Baptism by immersion in water was so essential that Christ, who did no sin, was baptized to show us the way. He thus taught that a man must born of water and the spirit to enter the kingdom of God. Ignore it at your your own peril but it is essential to receive baptism for the remission of sins.

Jesus promised the man on the cross the following:

Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The key word in this verse is "paradise". Paradise is not the same as "heaven". On the very day that Jesus died, he did not ascend to heaven. We know this because on the third day after Jesus had resurrected, he told Mary the following:

John 20:16-17
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Here we learn that after Jesus resurrected and appeared before Mary on the 3rd day that he had not yet ascended to heaven where his Father was. The thief on the cross could not have been with Jesus in heaven. So the question is, where was Jesus on the day he died when he promised the man on the cross that today you will be with me in paradise? Between the time Jesus died and the time he was resurrected, Jesus went and preach to the spirits of those that have died.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Jesus went among those who have died who were spirits and set up an organization for them to hear the gospel. Those in the spirit world who have received the gospel are in paradise and those who have not are in spirit prison. The thief on the cross who was to be with Jesus in paradise on that very day was with Jesus among the spirits of the dead who accepted the gospel.

Thus paradise is that place in the world of spirits where those who have received the gospel await the day of resurrection and judgement.

 

[BS Filter]

Baptism by immersion in water was so essential that Christ, who did no sin, was baptized to show us the way. He thus taught that a man must born of water and the spirit to enter the kingdom of God. Ignore it at your your own peril but it is essential to receive baptism for the remission of sins.

Jesus promised the man on the cross the following:

Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The key word in this verse is "paradise". Paradise is not the same as "heaven". On the very day that Jesus died, he did not ascend to heaven. We know this because on the third day after Jesus had resurrected, he told Mary the following:

John 20:16-17
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Here we learn that after Jesus resurrected and appeared before Mary on the 3rd day that he had not yet ascended to heaven where his Father was. The thief on the cross could not have been with Jesus in heaven. So the question is, where was Jesus on the day he died when he promised the man on the cross that today you will be with me in paradise? Between the time Jesus died and the time he was resurrected, Jesus went and preach to the spirits of those that have died.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Jesus went among those who have died who were spirits and set up an organization for them to hear the gospel. Those in the spirit world who have received the gospel are in paradise and those who have not are in spirit prison. The thief on the cross who was to be with Jesus in paradise on that very day was with Jesus among the spirits of the dead who accepted the gospel.

Thus paradise is that place in the world of spirits where those who have received the gospel await the day of resurrection and judgement.

But Jesus had no sin. Therefore his baptism wasn't for remission of sin.

 

[onefour1]

That's really great! Well Done! Why do people get so confused about the requirement of our works to show our faith by getting wet? Are they afraid of the water?

People get confused because after the great falling away, apostate church's began to change the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Teachings of baptism before the age of accountability, teachings that don't follow the correct mode of baptism by emersion as Jesus did, and now we have the false teaching that we don't even need baptism.

I see among many Christians that they shy away from the teachings of good works because they don't want to be perceived as earning their way to heaven. They think that by doing good works that somehow that means that you believe you are in part saving yourself. Members of our church have been accused, to no end, of believing that we can save ourselves in part. What they don't understand is that even if we were to do all the works our whole could accomplish, that we would still be unprofitable servants. In other words, we cannot save ourselves no matter what we do. But we are commanded to have faith which requires works, and we are command to keep the commandments of God. King Mosiah taught us the following:

Mosiah 2:21
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

Our works don't save us and no matter how much work we do, without the grace of Jesus Christ, we cannot be saved. But we are yet required by our Lord Jesus to do good works. Christians often quote Ephesians 2:8-9 as their false evidence against works. They always seem to leave out verse 10.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If read correctly, this verse is saying, don't believe that your works save you. It is not saying not to do any good works. We are saved by the grace of Jesus' atoning sacrifice and that is the gift of grace. But verse 8 also tells us that we are saved through faith. And as James 2 tells us very clearly, faith without works are dead. Then when you look at verse 10, it is very clear that we are to do good works. So the verse is not saying don't do good works because you can't be saved by them, but it is saying that we are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ after all we can do in honoring and obeying the commandments of God and receiving his ordinances even if those works don't do the saving. So even though we are unprofitable servants by our works alone, we can receive the promise of grace through Jesus Christ by being unprofitable servants by showing our Lord that we have faith and good works. This anti-good works teaching of not needing any effort on our part and thus no need for baptism smack is the face of John 3:5.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We all need to come to a unity of the faith and realize that we are born to do good works and to exercise faith in our Lord through doing good works and that it is only by doing as the Lord requires that we will be blessed with the grace that does save us from our fallen and unsaved state.