What Is It You Think You Can't Do Because of Political Correctness?

[Jarhead]

You can refer to them as anything you want. The NY Times doesnt want to refer to them as Illegal Aliens. Now, should the NY Times do what you want simply because you want them too or can you not use those words simply because the NY Times wont publish it?

huh?

I'm not talking about the NYT.....I support freedom of the press 100%.....

I am explaining why POLITICIANS push to have "titles" changed...

And the illegal immigrant/undocumented worker transition by the WH was designed to do exactly what it did.....

Make it appear that the GOP is anti immigration.

I actually think it was well played by the White House

Wait, Are the republicans against immigration or do they support immigration?

I believe there is not a single member of congress against immigration.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Many want them to be referred to as illegal immigrants so we can have an honest debate about the issue.

Look what happened when the term "illegal" was eliminated....

The debate now seems to be more about how the GOP is anti immigration.

You seem bright. I am surprised you did not pick up on that.

Precisely. This is the PC that many want to pretend does not exist.

And how does it manifest? It makes honest debate over the issue impossible, because if you use the term "illegal immigrant", the PC Police immediately uses that as an excuse to put you on the defensive by diverting away from the issue to say (lie) that you are "anti-immigration" and, inevitably, "racist".

This is how the PC game is played, this is why the PC Police will deny its existence, and this is why it's impossible to have an honest conversation with them on multiple topics.

Their denials are lies, they know what they're doing. Fortunately, the lies are wearing very, very thin.

.

Oh you mean messaging Well thats different and has nothing to do with PC police. Like With us or against us, Up or down vote, Right to life....Messaging

 

[Jarhead]

Many want them to be referred to as illegal immigrants so we can have an honest debate about the issue.

Look what happened when the term "illegal" was eliminated....

The debate now seems to be more about how the GOP is anti immigration.

You seem bright. I am surprised you did not pick up on that.

Precisely. This is the PC that many want to pretend does not exist.

And how does it manifest? It makes honest debate over the issue impossible, because if you use the term "illegal immigrant", the PC Police immediately uses that as an excuse to put you on the defensive by diverting away from the issue to say (lie) that you are "anti-immigration" and, inevitably, "racist".

This is how the PC game is played, this is why the PC Police will deny its existence, and this is why it's impossible to have an honest conversation with them on multiple topics.

Their denials are lies, they know what they're doing. Fortunately, the lies are wearing very, very thin.

.

Oh you mean messaging Well thats different and has nothing to do with PC police. Like With us or against us, Up or down vote, Right to life....Messaging

No...that is not messaging.

Changing the acceptable term to "undocumented worker" while criticizing those that say "illegal immigrant" is not messaging.

And you know it.

 

[ShawnChris13]

Can we at least agree that undocumented workers are illegal aliens and mean the same thing? Let's just stick to the original term since the new one seems to infer that these people have a right to be here. They have no rights here. Their rights exist from their government on their soil. Their existence here is in direct defiance of my rights and your rights. Remove any foreign illegal personnel from our lands, focus on making our country prosperous, and then when we need more people here we will invite them. We are no longer looking for your poor, your tired, or your weak to come here.

 

[Jarhead]

Here is the flaw in "undocumented worker"....

One can be an undocumented worker but also an American Citizen...

For example.....if I pay the guy next door 15 bucks an hour cash to help me bang up Sheetrock....he is an undocumented worker, but not an illegal immigrant.

Likewise.....

One can be an illegal immigrant but not an undocumented worker...

For example....the 18 year old son of an illegal immigrant who came here with him at the age of 18, but refuses to work and, instead, hangs out at the corner with his peeps.

 

[Jarhead]

Can we at least agree that undocumented workers are illegal aliens and mean the same thing? Let's just stick to the original term since the new one seems to infer that these people have a right to be here. They have no rights here. Their rights exist from their government on their soil. Their existence here is in direct defiance of my rights and your rights. Remove any foreign illegal personnel from our lands, focus on making our country prosperous, and then when we need more people here we will invite them. We are no longer looking for your poor, your tired, or your weak to come here.

I have no issue with the poor the tired and the weak coming.

Just follow the rules coming in.

 

[BlackSand]

No one is stopping you from saying it and the NY Times doesnt owe you anything. They dont HAVE TO print something just because you want it.

I'll tell you like your mama used to say: People in hell want Ice Water. It aint about what you want Stop being a spoiled brat

My mother used to say ... "There is a right way and wrong way to do everything and it is up to you to ensure you choose the right path."
To deny there is a specific intent behind the move to identify "illegal aliens" as "undocumented workers" is not a sign of progress or responsibility.

.

Of course there is but no one is the victim of not being able to say it. No one is getting a hand put over their mouths.

They just WANT to pretend to be the victim of something

So you think the agenda is the right path to take and doesn't create victims in the process?

.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Precisely. This is the PC that many want to pretend does not exist.

And how does it manifest? It makes honest debate over the issue impossible, because if you use the term "illegal immigrant", the PC Police immediately uses that as an excuse to put you on the defensive by diverting away from the issue to say (lie) that you are "anti-immigration" and, inevitably, "racist".

This is how the PC game is played, this is why the PC Police will deny its existence, and this is why it's impossible to have an honest conversation with them on multiple topics.

Their denials are lies, they know what they're doing. Fortunately, the lies are wearing very, very thin.

.

Oh you mean messaging Well thats different and has nothing to do with PC police. Like With us or against us, Up or down vote, Right to life....Messaging

No...that is not messaging.

Changing the acceptable term to "undocumented worker" while criticizing those that say "illegal immigrant" is not messaging.

And you know it.

Why do you say "acceptable"?

Look you can call it whatever you like. It obvious that no matter what anyone says you're going to claim you are a victim of...something.

I think you want the ability to say Illegal Immigrant without anyone saying anything back to you or passing judgement. Whenever you say anything within earshot of another person they will hear the words and judge the words.

You seem to want something no human is capable of doing and that will solve the problem.

 

[Jarhead]

Oh you mean messaging Well thats different and has nothing to do with PC police. Like With us or against us, Up or down vote, Right to life....Messaging

No...that is not messaging.

Changing the acceptable term to "undocumented worker" while criticizing those that say "illegal immigrant" is not messaging.

And you know it.

Why do you say "acceptable"?

Look you can call it whatever you like. It obvious that no matter what anyone says you're going to claim you are a victim of...something.

I think you want the ability to say Illegal Immigrant without anyone saying anything back to you or passing judgement. Whenever you say anything within earshot of another person they will hear the words and judge the words.

You seem to want something no human is capable of doing and that will solve the problem.

That may be your problem....by no means mine.

When it comes to legislation, I want an honest debate....and I want honest votes based on an honest understanding of the issue.

When politicians spin...and "undocumented worker" was designed to allow for spin....an honest debate is tossed out the window.

Now, perhaps you prefer it that way. Cool with me.

I don't.

As for your making believe you know what I like and what my sentiments are...

Worry about your own life my friend.

Mine is in good hands.

 

[Redfish]

Oh you mean messaging Well thats different and has nothing to do with PC police. Like With us or against us, Up or down vote, Right to life....Messaging

No...that is not messaging.

Changing the acceptable term to "undocumented worker" while criticizing those that say "illegal immigrant" is not messaging.

And you know it.

Why do you say "acceptable"?

Look you can call it whatever you like. It obvious that no matter what anyone says you're going to claim you are a victim of...something.

I think you want the ability to say Illegal Immigrant without anyone saying anything back to you or passing judgement. Whenever you say anything within earshot of another person they will hear the words and judge the words.

You seem to want something no human is capable of doing and that will solve the problem.

Its not about anyone becoming a victim. Get over that crap. Its about the government trying to change the debate by renaming illegals as something else for political gain.

Why is it so hard for you to see this for what it is?

 

[Jarhead]

No...that is not messaging.

Changing the acceptable term to "undocumented worker" while criticizing those that say "illegal immigrant" is not messaging.

And you know it.

Why do you say "acceptable"?

Look you can call it whatever you like. It obvious that no matter what anyone says you're going to claim you are a victim of...something.

I think you want the ability to say Illegal Immigrant without anyone saying anything back to you or passing judgement. Whenever you say anything within earshot of another person they will hear the words and judge the words.

You seem to want something no human is capable of doing and that will solve the problem.

Its not about anyone becoming a victim. Get over that crap. Its about the government trying to change the debate by renaming illegals as something else for political gain.

Why is it so hard for you to see this for what it is?

because he doesn't want to see it for what it is.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Why do you say "acceptable"?

Look you can call it whatever you like. It obvious that no matter what anyone says you're going to claim you are a victim of...something.

I think you want the ability to say Illegal Immigrant without anyone saying anything back to you or passing judgement. Whenever you say anything within earshot of another person they will hear the words and judge the words.

You seem to want something no human is capable of doing and that will solve the problem.

Its not about anyone becoming a victim. Get over that crap. Its about the government trying to change the debate by renaming illegals as something else for political gain.

Why is it so hard for you to see this for what it is?

because he doesn't want to see it for what it is.

Because I know I can still say Illegal Alien and the govt isnt stopping me. You're upset that the term illegal alien is being frowned upon in public.

It shouldnt be frowned upon...BUT...if the general public starts to develop a distaste for it whos fault is that?

The General Public...

Then you have to remember WHO is using the word. Republicans are. They are generally seen as being anti minority. So when they say it it means something different...psuedo racist because of the history.

For example: If a black dude and a white dude both use the n word. People will receive it differently. Is that fair?

It seems to me that because repubs have this history of accepting racist or racism THAT is where the problem stems

 

[Jarhead]

Its not about anyone becoming a victim. Get over that crap. Its about the government trying to change the debate by renaming illegals as something else for political gain.

Why is it so hard for you to see this for what it is?

because he doesn't want to see it for what it is.

Because I know I can still say Illegal Alien and the govt isnt stopping me. You're upset that the term illegal alien is being frowned upon in public.

It shouldnt be frowned upon...BUT...if the general public starts to develop a distaste for it whos fault is that?

The General Public...

Then you have to remember WHO is using the word. Republicans are. They are generally seen as being anti minority. So when they say it it means something different...psuedo racist because of the history.

For example: If a black dude and a white dude both use the n word. People will receive it differently. Is that fair?

It seems to me that because repubs have this history of accepting racist or racism THAT is where the problem stems

is it that you don't read my posts?

I do not care WHO uses the term.....free speech.

But when an elected official uses the term to warp the debate, I take offense to that.

You don't.

So I guess you don't mind a dishonest debate.

I do mind it for it results in wasted time, money and, sometimes ill thought out laws.

 

[ClosedCaption]

because he doesn't want to see it for what it is.

Because I know I can still say Illegal Alien and the govt isnt stopping me. You're upset that the term illegal alien is being frowned upon in public.

It shouldnt be frowned upon...BUT...if the general public starts to develop a distaste for it whos fault is that?

The General Public...

Then you have to remember WHO is using the word. Republicans are. They are generally seen as being anti minority. So when they say it it means something different...psuedo racist because of the history.

For example: If a black dude and a white dude both use the n word. People will receive it differently. Is that fair?

It seems to me that because repubs have this history of accepting racist or racism THAT is where the problem stems

is it that you don't read my posts?

I do not care WHO uses the term.....free speech.

But when an elected official uses the term to warp the debate, I take offense to that.

You don't.

So I guess you don't mind a dishonest debate.

I do mind it for it results in wasted time, money and, sometimes ill thought out laws.

Ok, so you take offense to messaging. Just like "Up or down vote"..."Right to Life"...etc. I too take offense to it, it does warp the debate. It happens on both sides. Its no surprise you dont like it when it wacks your side the same as I dont when it wacks mine.

But this is politics. Clever messaging has been around longer than you or I and disliking it wont change anything.

 

[bendog]

Its not about anyone becoming a victim. Get over that crap. Its about the government trying to change the debate by renaming illegals as something else for political gain.

Why is it so hard for you to see this for what it is?

because he doesn't want to see it for what it is.

Because I know I can still say Illegal Alien and the govt isnt stopping me. You're upset that the term illegal alien is being frowned upon in public.

It shouldnt be frowned upon...BUT...if the general public starts to develop a distaste for it whos fault is that?

The General Public...

Then you have to remember WHO is using the word. Republicans are. They are generally seen as being anti minority. So when they say it it means something different...psuedo racist because of the history.

For example: If a black dude and a white dude both use the n word. People will receive it differently. Is that fair?

It seems to me that because repubs have this history of accepting racist or racism THAT is where the problem stems

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/M...anBnXkFtZTcwNTg0Nzc3Nw@@._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg

 

[Mac1958]

Ok, so you take offense to messaging. Just like "Up or down vote"..."Right to Life"...etc. I too take offense to it, it does warp the debate. It happens on both sides. Its no surprise you dont like it when it wacks your side the same as I dont when it wacks mine.

But this is politics. Clever messaging has been around longer than you or I and disliking it wont change anything.

This is just excellent. Absolutely perfect.

So you're going to take all the madness that is Political Correctness - from manipulating the language to "participation medals" to Identity Politics to "holiday trees", and you're going to give it the name "messaging".

You want to take a term that already exists -- Political Correctness -- and give it a NEW name -- "messaging" -- that suits you better, manipulating the language to your advantage. That is a BEAUTIFUL example of what we're talking about. THAT is a delightful example of Political Correctness.

Right there for all to see.

You folks literally can't help yourselves, can you?

Holy crap. You said it better than I can.

.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Ok, so you take offense to messaging. Just like "Up or down vote"..."Right to Life"...etc. I too take offense to it, it does warp the debate. It happens on both sides. Its no surprise you dont like it when it wacks your side the same as I dont when it wacks mine.

But this is politics. Clever messaging has been around longer than you or I and disliking it wont change anything.

This is just excellent. Absolutely perfect.

So you're going to take all the madness that is Political Correctness - from manipulating the language to "participation medals" to Identity Politics to "holiday trees", and you're going to give it the name "messaging".

Whoa wait a fucking second! Messaging is one thing. That bullshit about participation medals or holiday trees is about people who are sensitive. Who dont make sense and you are trying to figure it out. THEY ARE CRAZY!

Think like this....Would you go to the local Nut House and ask the guy with a propeller hat and roller skates what to call your Christmas tree? No. So why the fuck do you pay attention to some nut ball calling a Christmas tree a Holiday Tree?

Even if they want to call it that why are YOU worried about what THEY call it?

You want to take a term that already exists -- Political Correctness -- and give it a NEW name -- "messaging" -- that suits you better, manipulating the language to your advantage. That is a BEAUTIFUL example of what we're talking about. THAT is a delightful example of Political Correctness.

Messaging is not new. Both parties have people in charge of this "new thing" called messaging.

Excuse me, but you are taking Political Messaging and changing it to "Political Correctness". To fit your bullshit. Here you are pretending that Communication Departments dont exist! That Frank Luntz didnt write a book on Effective Messaging?

But "Right to Life" is OK because it's your side. "With us or against us" is cool. "Abortionist" "Leftists" etc are all ok because its...your side. I know....

Right there for all to see.

You folks literally can't help yourselves, can you?

Holy crap. You said it better than I can.

.

This is just you pumping yourself up. Meaningless

 

[flacaltenn]

No one is stopping you from saying it and the NY Times doesnt owe you anything. They dont HAVE TO print something just because you want it.

I'll tell you like your mama used to say: People in hell want Ice Water. It aint about what you want Stop being a spoiled brat

My mother used to say ... "There is a right way and wrong way to do everything and it is up to you to ensure you choose the right path."
To deny there is a specific intent behind the move to identify "illegal aliens" as "undocumented workers" is not a sign of progress or responsibility.

.

Of course there is but no one is the victim of not being able to say it. No one is getting a hand put over their mouths.

They just WANT to pretend to be the victim of something

You're missing the part where there is a SOCIAL (or legal) penalty for USING those words.
It's not that the newspapers REFUSE to use them.. It's the corrolary where anyone WHO DOES --- becomes a racist, bigot, homophobe, or winger...

"GO AHEAD SAY IT --- no one is stopping you.. ((Because ClosedCaption KNOWS the penalties will be swift and severe))"
Pretty childish taunting there..

That IS a penalty of ALLOWING the Media and political advocacy groups to WIN on this calculated culling of the language..

And the denial game that you are playing (and this entire thread) is designed to TAUNT and ridicule the opposition to political correct campaigns because YOU and your minions think you've created the perfect insurgency tool. One that is virtually unindictable because there are no outstanding fingerprints of the crime.. Of course, most people clearly see what the purpose of this thread is and how your game is played..

 

[ClosedCaption]

My mother used to say ... "There is a right way and wrong way to do everything and it is up to you to ensure you choose the right path."
To deny there is a specific intent behind the move to identify "illegal aliens" as "undocumented workers" is not a sign of progress or responsibility.

.

Of course there is but no one is the victim of not being able to say it. No one is getting a hand put over their mouths.

They just WANT to pretend to be the victim of something

You're missing the part where there is a SOCIAL (or legal) penalty for USING those words.
It's not that the newspapers REFUSE to use them.. It's the corrolary where anyone WHO DOES --- becomes a racist, bigot, homophobe, or winger...

Thats what I was saying the entire time. You're upset that society judges your words. Sorry but thats life. You can be mad at life but it doesnt change anything.

"GO AHEAD SAY IT --- no one is stopping you.. ((Because ClosedCaption KNOWS the penalties will be swift and severe))"
Pretty childish taunting there..

Swift and Severe? The Sky is falling too. You can say it and when the words leave your mouth people will judge those words. Dont like it? There is no solution to your problem. You just have a problem with no solution.

That IS a penalty of ALLOWING the Media and political advocacy groups to WIN on this calculated culling of the language..

Just dont allow them to win by using what Frank Luntz calls "Words that Work"

And the denial game that you are playing (and this entire thread) is designed to TAUNT and ridicule the opposition to political correct campaigns because YOU and your minions think you've created the perfect insurgency tool. One that is virtually unindictable because there are no outstanding fingerprints of the crime.. Of course, most people clearly see what the purpose of this thread is and how your game is played..

Thats funny thats acutally a great description on why I'm always told there are no leaders in the Tea Party.

I'm not taunting anything. Is there a solution you propose? Should everyone talk the way you want them too?

I mean lay out anything that solves this problem and try it out. The REAL problem is that there IS NO SOLUTION! So the ONLY thing you can do is cry about how unfair it is.

If you let someones preference to say "Holiday Trees" affect you thats on YOU. I'll keep calling them Christmas Trees and loudly gives not one fuck about what anyone says about it.

Same with the word Bitch. I dont care what someone says about me using it. I use it. I could cry about how ppl look at me funny when I say it but why? It solves nothing

 

[ClosedCaption]

Frank I. Luntz (born February 23, 1962) is an American political consultant, pollster, and Republican Party strategist.[2] His most recent work has been with the Fox News Channel as a frequent commentator and analyst, as well as running focus groups during and after presidential debates. Luntz's specialty is “testing language and finding words that will help his clients sell their product or turn public opinion on an issue or a candidate.”[3]

Stop playing

He is also an author of business books dealing with communication strategies and public opinion. Luntz's current company, Luntz Global, LLC, specializes in message creation and image management for commercial and political clients.

But but but...Closed Caption made it up!! How could Frank Luntz have a company specializing in something CC just made up out of thin air?