What Is "Torture"?

[PoliticalChic]

Having to sit through an Obozo speech!

"TACKY: OBAMA GIVES QUEEN OF ENGLAND iPOD W/HIS SPEECHES"
TACKY OBAMA GIVES QUEEN OF ENGLAND iPOD W HIS SPEECHES - San Diego California Talk Radio Station - AM 760 KFMB

 

[2aguy]

If waterboarding was torture during World War II and the United States of America cited waterboarding as a technique of torture in indictments against Japanese war criminals, why is water boarding suddenly NOT torture in the 21st century?

Because the Japanese didn't do it the way the CIA did it....there is massive difference between what the Japanese did to soldiers....actual prisoners of war, and what the CIA did to unlawful enemy combatants.....but the libs won't say what the differences are because if people knew, they would know that the libs are lying....

 

[2aguy]

Considering none of the actual interrogators were interviewed or questioned.....makes for a nice smear job...

According to the Senate intelligence committee report on the treatment of detainees after the 9/11 attacks, members of a CIA interrogation team were “profoundly affected . . . some to the point of tears and choking up” at the brutal treatment in 2002 of an important al-Qaeda detainee named Abu Zubaida.


Captured in Pakistan and whisked to a secret facility in Thailand, Zubaida was initially cooperative, willingly providing answers under normal, non-coercive questioning. But the CIA abruptly halted his interrogation, placed him in isolation for 47 days and then began a regime of astonishing and gratuitous cruelty.


Torturers slammed him against walls, confined him in coffin-size boxes for a total of nearly 300 hours and subjected him to 83 sessions of waterboarding, which simulates drowning — a practice for which Japanese war criminals were tried, convicted and harshly punished following World War II. After one waterboarding assault, according to the Senate report, Zubaida was “completely unresponsive, with bubbles rising through his open, full mouth.”

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This shows that this guy is a liar.....he does not show what the Japanese did, and then pretends it was the same thing as the CIA did,which it wasn't...

a practice for which Japanese war criminals were tried, convicted and harshly punished following World War II.

Never, ever trust a lefty journalist....

 

[PoliticalChic]

If waterboarding was torture during World War II and the United States of America cited waterboarding as a technique of torture in indictments against Japanese war criminals, why is water boarding suddenly NOT torture in the 21st century?

Because the Japanese didn't do it the way the CIA did it....there is massive difference between what the Japanese did to soldiers....actual prisoners of war, and what the CIA did to unlawful enemy combatants.....but the libs won't say what the differences are because if people knew, they would know that the libs are lying....

"When they waterboarded, they would cane the prisoner's belly while he was being waterboarded. This apparently increased the level of pain and panic exponentially. These are not--in kind or in degree--the same offenses that the Americans are charged with....agree. To be clear to everybody, what the Japanese were doing was like the Americans only in the sense that:
- folks were tied on a board
- there was water.

The basic Japanese approach was to force ingestion of large amounts of water, then beat your distended stomach, causing pain and rupture of organs.

It was not the mental panic approach that we call waterboarding today."
Althouse Americans think the Bush adminstration used torture.

 

[Nosmo King]

If waterboarding was torture during World War II and the United States of America cited waterboarding as a technique of torture in indictments against Japanese war criminals, why is water boarding suddenly NOT torture in the 21st century?

Because the Japanese didn't do it the way the CIA did it....there is massive difference between what the Japanese did to soldiers....actual prisoners of war, and what the CIA did to unlawful enemy combatants.....but the libs won't say what the differences are because if people knew, they would know that the libs are lying....

A poor and clumsy rationalization. Water boarding is still listed as a method of torture. Anyone who engages in water boarding is engaging in a torture technique. Believing that United States 'interrogators' are somehow benign while engaging in torture is naïve at best, delusional at worst.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If waterboarding was torture during World War II and the United States of America cited waterboarding as a technique of torture in indictments against Japanese war criminals, why is water boarding suddenly NOT torture in the 21st century?

Because the Japanese didn't do it the way the CIA did it....there is massive difference between what the Japanese did to soldiers....actual prisoners of war, and what the CIA did to unlawful enemy combatants.....but the libs won't say what the differences are because if people knew, they would know that the libs are lying....

A poor and clumsy rationalization. Water boarding is still listed as a method of torture. Anyone who engages in water boarding is engaging in a torture technique. Believing that United States 'interrogators' are somehow benign while engaging in torture is naïve at best, delusional at worst.

Your post reeks of both ignorance and acquiescence to government school indoctrination.

 

[2aguy]

A poor and clumsy rationalization. Water boarding is still listed as a method of torture. Anyone who engages in water boarding is engaging in a torture technique. Believing that United States 'interrogators' are somehow benign while engaging in torture is naïve at best, delusional at worst.

Water boarding is 100% effective even against our Navy Seals and other Special Forces....all of the used to undergo water boarding as part of their training....it was stopped for all but the Seals because it was so effective at getting the trainees to comply, it was thought that it would weaken their will to resist if they ever faced it in a real POW setting.

The technique does not injure the prisoner, it does not break bone, cut flesh or leave permanent injuries. Once the prisoner is raised up, he dries off and he is completely fine....and this harmless technique was able to get hardened terrorists to give up all of their information....with no harm and no permanent harm....

You libs are so silly.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Well, as I said, denial is all you have if you don't want to accept you supported war crimes, so I understand you're going to cling to it.

Happy dangling.

Fact is not denial. You have no fucking clue what your talking about. You are a partisan, and seem to think that is a substitute for fact and reality.

Learn something, you fucking retard;

Unlawful combatant

 

[2aguy]

Here are 4 Vietnam War POWs who support waterboarding terrorists....keep in mind, these 4 men are experts in what torture is, and isn't. All 4 were brutally tortured by the socialists in Vietnam....2 of them were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, one of them is the famous POW who blinked TORTURE in morse code with his eyes...and all 4 support water boarding....they should know....I believe one or more of them were in the same POW camp as McCain....

Another Vietnam POW for waterboarding AEI

Ellis is not alone among Vietnam POWs in supporting the enhanced interrogation techniques used on KSM and other terrorists after 9/11. While the media has focused on John McCain’s opposition to the practice, the fact is many of his former comrades from the Hanoi Hilton disagree vehemently with him. In my book, Courting Disaster, I interview many of them — including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp;

Col. Leo Thorsness was awarded the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War; and Adm. Jeremiah Denton, the POW who famously winked the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda interview — the first message to the outside world that American prisoners were being tortured.

 

[ClosedCaption]

What is Torture?

I'm glad someone posted this earlier saying that Liberals use these tactics:

Honest and Dishonest Debate US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Claiming well-defined words are vague or ill-defined. This is a mirror image of #30. It is a favorite of those who do wrong but seek to avoid the consequences or responsibility by asserting that what is wright or wrong is merely a mater of each individual’s opinion. Try that in court and see how far its gets you. This is also akin to #22: rejecting facts or logic as mere opinion.

You mean like what the meaning of "is" is, Comrade?

Yep that too, good point but it doesnt make the OP look any better

 

[irosie91]

OK----so where was the intentional infliction of severe
physical pain?

For gods' sakes.

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

Waterboarding is severe suffering.

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

Waterboarding is the threat of imminent death by drowning.

Waterboarding is not severe suffering. Had you bothered to read the memos or even part of them you might understand the distinction between severe suffering and suffering.
Waterboarding is also not the imminent threat of death, esp as no one has died from it.
You're just racking up the shit points here, arent you?

No one has died from water boarding so that means you cant die from it?

If you can die from it you're saying there isnt any threat of death?

And last...You dont believe that someone else, not yourself, being waterboarded is suffering but not "severe" suffering? LOL...How about more than "enhanced" suffering? How bout "extra suffering"?

I never said "no one has died from water boarding" why did you lie? I never said "if you cant't die from it there isn't any threat of death" either-----why do you lie? I never said "if it isn't me, it isn't suffering" either----why do you lie-------I experience suffering when people lie to me

 

[2aguy]

Here is a look at the SERE training program for U.S. military...

Blog Torture or Education

Almost makes club Gitmo sound like paradise, but it gets worse:

Then it was time for the dreaded waterboard. What I didn’t know then, but I do now, is that as in all interrogations, both for real world hostile terrorists (non-uniformed combatants) and in S.E.R.E. a highly trained group of doctors, psychologists, interrogators, and strap-in and strap-out rescue teams are always present. My first experience on the “waterboard” was to be laying on my back, on a board with my body at a 30 degree slope, feet in the air, head down, face-up. The straps are all-confining, with the only movement of your body that of the ability to move your head. Slowly water is poured in your face, up your nose, and some in your mouth. The questions from interrogators and amounts of water increase with each unsuccessful response. Soon they have your complete attention as you begin to believe you are going to drown.

This is what was done to terrorists who murdered innocent men, women and children.....

And these are our military special operators and even they gave up the information....and none of them were harmed....

The author writes that there may have been as many as 40,000 of these students who were “tortured” over the years in the SERE program. He also specifically mentions one pilot who wasn’t given the opportunity to utilize his SERE training:

 

[ClosedCaption]

OK----so where was the intentional infliction of severe
physical pain?

For gods' sakes.

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

Waterboarding is severe suffering.

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

Waterboarding is the threat of imminent death by drowning.

Waterboarding is not severe suffering. Had you bothered to read the memos or even part of them you might understand the distinction between severe suffering and suffering.
Waterboarding is also not the imminent threat of death, esp as no one has died from it.
You're just racking up the shit points here, arent you?

No one has died from water boarding so that means you cant die from it?

If you can die from it you're saying there isnt any threat of death?

And last...You dont believe that someone else, not yourself, being waterboarded is suffering but not "severe" suffering? LOL...How about more than "enhanced" suffering? How bout "extra suffering"?

I never said "no one has died from water boarding" why did you lie? I never said "if you cant't die from it there isn't any threat of death" either-----why do you lie? I never said "if it isn't me, it isn't suffering" either----why do you lie-------I experience suffering when people lie to me

Thats why I didnt quote you idiot.

 

[2aguy]

Of course, it takes a conservative writer to make sense of the lunacy of the left....

The Torture Taboo National Review Online

And this suggests why the talking point about drone strikes has such power. Killing is worse than torture. Life in prison might be called torture for some people, and yet we consider the death penalty a more severe punishment. Most people would prefer to be waterboarded than killed. All sane and decent people would rather go through what Khalid Sheikh Mohammad went through than see their whole family slaughtered from 10,000 feet by a drone. And yet President Obama routinely sanctions drone strikes while piously outlawing the slapping of prisoners who might have information that would make such strikes less necessary — and, more importantly, would prevent the loss of innocent American lives.

It’s odd: Even though killing is a graver moral act, there’s more flexibility to it. America killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in World War II, but few would call that murder because such actions as the firebombing of Dresden were deemed necessary to win the war.

In other words, we have the moral vocabulary to talk about kinds of killing — from euthanasia and abortion to capital punishment, involuntary manslaughter and, of course, murder — but we don’t have a similar lexicon when it comes to kinds of torture.

When John McCain was brutally tortured — far, far more severely than anything we’ve done to the 9/11 plotters — it was done to elicit false confessions and other statements for purposes of propaganda. When we tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, it was to get actionable intelligence on ongoing plots. It seems to me that’s an important moral distinction. If I torture a fiend to find out where he left a child to suffocate or starve in some dungeon, that’s a less evil act than torturing someone just to hear them renounce their god or country. Also, KSM was not some innocent subjected to torture to satisfy the grotesque desires of some sadists. He is an unlawful combatant responsible for murdering thousands of innocent Americans.

there is a lefty member of the news wing of the democrat party at Politico who said Bush was a war criminal for these techniques....this is where feinstein and the democrats may run into trouble and why they didn't blame Bush, but said he was lied to by the CIA....

Why...because they knew what was happening, had signed off on these techniques, and if Bush is a war criminal...so is feinstein and the other democrats that approved these actions....

These idiot democrats may have opened up Pandora's box for themselves....all in the manic desire to attack Bush....

 

[2aguy]

And see....this is where the democrats get screwed by their desire to smear Bush and the CIA...since they signed off on all of this themselves....

CIA s John Rizzo Pelosi Briefed Before Bush on Terror Techniques

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi was briefed early on about the CIA's enhanced interrogation procedures, despite her claims to the contrary, said former CIA Acting General Counsel John Rizzo.

Pelosi was in the group of officials who were told about the program even before George Tenet, the former director of the CIA, briefed former President George W. Bush, he said Friday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

So...let's put these democrats under oath and see what they knew and when the knew it...right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Your claim is false. The United States does abide by the GC.

The left in this nation simply has decided to use the big lie technique.

The Bush administration claimed there was a class of person unprotected by the Conventions. That is false. The Bush administration did not uphold the Conventions.

Wrong on both counts.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Of course, it takes a conservative writer to make sense of the lunacy of the left....

.

What you meant to say was it takes a conservative writer to provide you with talking points

 

[The Rabbi]

If waterboarding was torture during World War II and the United States of America cited waterboarding as a technique of torture in indictments against Japanese war criminals, why is water boarding suddenly NOT torture in the 21st century?

Because the Japanese didn't do it the way the CIA did it....there is massive difference between what the Japanese did to soldiers....actual prisoners of war, and what the CIA did to unlawful enemy combatants.....but the libs won't say what the differences are because if people knew, they would know that the libs are lying....

A poor and clumsy rationalization. Water boarding is still listed as a method of torture. Anyone who engages in water boarding is engaging in a torture technique. Believing that United States 'interrogators' are somehow benign while engaging in torture is naïve at best, delusional at worst.

I declare your posts constitute waterboarding USMB. You are guilty of war crimes.
Serious, are yu really that stupid? Honest?

 

[ClosedCaption]

If waterboarding was torture during World War II and the United States of America cited waterboarding as a technique of torture in indictments against Japanese war criminals, why is water boarding suddenly NOT torture in the 21st century?

Because the Japanese didn't do it the way the CIA did it....there is massive difference between what the Japanese did to soldiers....actual prisoners of war, and what the CIA did to unlawful enemy combatants.....but the libs won't say what the differences are because if people knew, they would know that the libs are lying....

A poor and clumsy rationalization. Water boarding is still listed as a method of torture. Anyone who engages in water boarding is engaging in a torture technique. Believing that United States 'interrogators' are somehow benign while engaging in torture is naïve at best, delusional at worst.

I declare your posts constitute waterboarding USMB. You are guilty of war crimes.
Serious, are yu really that stupid? Honest?

Man your thread is really coming in handy. You are guilty of

Mockery. 1. Derision; ridicule. 2. An absurd misrepresentation or imitation of something. No facts or log

Name calling: debater tries to diminish the argument of his opponent by calling the opponent a name that is subjective and unattractive; for example, cult members and bad real estate gurus typically warn the targets of their frauds that “dream stealers” will try to tell them the cult or guru is giving them bad advice; name calling is only intellectually dishonest when the name in question is ill defined or is so subjective that it tells the listener more about the speaker than the person being spoken about; there is nothing wrong with using a name that is relevant and objectively defined; the most common example of name calling against me is “negative;” in coaching, the critics of coaches are often college professors and the word “professor” is used as a name-calling tactic by the coaches who are the targets of the criticism in question; as a coach, I have been criticized as being “too intense,” a common put-down of successful youth and high school coaches. People who criticize their former employer are dishonestly dismissed as “disgruntled” or “bitter.” These are all efforts to distract the audience by changing the subject because the speaker cannot refute the facts or logic of the opponent.

 

[Carla_Danger]

tor·ture
ˈtôrCHər/
noun

1. 1.
   the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.
   synonyms: infliction of pain, abuse, ill-treatment, maltreatment, persecution;
   sadism
   "acts of torture"
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verb

1. 1.
   inflict severe pain on.
   "most of the victims had been brutally tortured"
   synonyms: inflict pain on, ill-treat, abuse, mistreat, maltreat, persecute
   "they have tortured suspects in order to extract confessions"