What was a reason for God to sacrifice His Son?

[irosie91]

nothing is PERFECT-----anyone who has mixed up a CREPE batter----knows that
no crepe is perfect

 

[ESay]

What do all that have to do with Christ?

It had to do with your dismissal of traditions and rituals. If not for traditions and rituals our heritage would be lost.

Actually I dont dismiss traditions and rituals, but you mainstream Christians have adopted the traditions that dont belong to the true Christianity.
And what do you mean by saying 'our heritage'? Whose heritage?

Christian heritage.

Who are you to say which traditions and rituals are and are not Christian traditions and rituals? The authority on that is the Catholic Church. Scriptures are only a part of the Christian heritage. An even larger portion of our heritage is contained in Tradition with a capital "T." Which is the knowledge that was passed down orally.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Transmission of Divine Revelation

II. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE

One common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".41

. . . two distinct modes of transmission

81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church's Magisterium.

III. THE INTERPRETATION OF THE HERITAGE OF FAITH

The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church

84 The apostles entrusted the "Sacred deposit" of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46

The Magisterium of the Church

85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me",49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

The dogmas of the faith

88 The Church's Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.

89 There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our intellect and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.50

90 The mutual connections between dogmas, and their coherence, can be found in the whole of the Revelation of the mystery of Christ.51 "In Catholic doctrine there exists an order or hierarchy of truths, since they vary in their relation to the foundation of the Christian faith."52

The supernatural sense of faith

91 All the faithful share in understanding and handing on revealed truth. They have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, who instructs them53 and guides them into all truth.54

92 "The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals."55

93 "By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium),. . . receives. . . the faith, once for all delivered to the saints. . . The People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life."56

Growth in understanding the faith

94 Thanks to the assistance of the Holy Spirit, the understanding of both the realities and the words of the heritage of faith is able to grow in the life of the Church:

- "through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts";57 it is in particular "theological research [which] deepens knowledge of revealed truth".58

- "from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which [believers] experience",59 the sacred Scriptures "grow with the one who reads them."60

- "from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth".61

95 "It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls."62

IN BRIEF

96 What Christ entrusted to the apostles, they in turn handed on by their preaching and writing, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to all generations, until Christ returns in glory.

97 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God" (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

98 "The Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes" (DV 8 § 1).

99 Thanks to its supernatural sense of faith, the People of God as a whole never ceases to welcome, to penetrate more deeply and to live more fully from the gift of divine Revelation.

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.

I am a human being who has his own opinion, though I am fully aware that this opinion may be wrong.
So, if someone lives according to the Scriptures and accepts Christ as their saviour but dont accept those ideas accepted by your 'fathers' then this one isnt a Christian?
And why is that Chatolic Church? Why not say Coptic Church or Armenian Apostolic Church?

I guess I would flip this around on you and say

but you mainstream Christians have adopted the traditions that dont belong to the true Christianity.

I wasn't the one criticizing you for being "a human being who has his own opinion."

I am the one defending his faith from "a human being who has his own opinion" by explaining the basis of why we do things. And now it appears that you want me to explain where we get our authority from? Is that correct?

Noy exactly. I want to ask why your authority are more authoritative than the one of say Armenian Apostolic Church.

 

[Taz]

God sacrificed his son because he wanted to show everyone his zombie trick.

 

[Picaro]

There's only one person there. You're being deceived.

I say you are--Facts say you are being deceived--If its one person then at Rev 1:1--God said--here me have a revelation--he would be insane. And at rev 3:12--God has a God. You have been lied to--every trinity religion on the earth does not have truth. This is their fate--Mark 3:24-26--A house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand--you can take that to the bank--Jesus is with one single religion-1Cor 1:10)

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

who were the "supposed scholars of 'jesus day" ? Can you identify any of those 'supposed scholars' who evaluated 'jesus
and his apostles'? Please try to be, at least, a little specific.
Eg---the "supposed scholars were........." and "this is what
_________said about Jesus..." I am sure that you understand
that by the time Jesus was living-----most adult jewish males were
literate. I would GUESS that Jesus was literate

The only group on earth who ( were) Gods chosen)-- Israel. The Pharisees, saducees, most assuredly the scribes as well. God was trying to turn them around back to him--They rejected him and his Messiah--They were cut off-Matthew 23:37-39)
Jesus was Gods son, Was he literate.
The Israelite spiritual leaders, kept-EVERY written Law--They unfortunately took them to far. They had false reasoning concerning the messiah--They thought Jesus was coming then when he did, but thought a mighty king was coming to fight the romans and rid them of their rule. A mere carpenters son shows up telling them they are making many errors concerning the Laws of God and that he brought a new covenant-Love instead of written Law. They hated him and tried to kill him a few x. Those were Gods chosen scholars of the day.
It shows how powerful satan is--Jesus said satan rules this world( system of things)--No wonder the bible teaches---Beware if you think you are standing strong.

Actually only the Jews who promote the Covenant matter; the rest aren't 'chosen'. The people who are 'chosen' were chosen by grace, not race, or intelligence, or any other reason. Those that stop promoting the Covenants were either punished or abandoned, and the history make that very clear, as does the OT and NT itself; your are seriously mistaken if you think Gentiles can't be Jewish, and count, and it's a matter of race.

And, Jesus was very much an 'old school' Rabbi, all about returning to the original intent and Mosaic teachings, and brought with a new Covenant, since most of the Jews running the temples and the politics had long abandoned the Covenants and focused on themselves as a 'Master Race' and assigned themselves privileges and offices based on their genealogies, not their religion. The last 'prophet' sent was Malachi, some 300 years before the Christian era. The Pharisees rose to power in that time span, and other schools, like Hillel's, came along as reformers as well.

And no, the 'Israelites' were a separate Jewish tribe from that of Judah, and no, the spiritual leaders of the Temple were not keeping the law, they were merely indulging in 'legalisms', quit a different thing than keeping the spirit of Moses and their covenant. They turned it into a profit center and class status for themselves.

 

[Picaro]

Ok..Thanks. I wasn't mistaken. You guys are blubbering about something else having been diverted by Satan with specious falsehoods and superstitious archaic lore.

The death that will be no more is the death associated with setting aside the law of God, as it says in rev. 22:3

"No longer will there be any curse."

The earth will remain exactly as it has always been. People will live and die, except without the type of confusion that leads you expect in your unrestrained imagination that people will one day live forever on earth.

The wolf laying down with the lamb is a metaphor for nations coexisting in peace. The prophecy is not and never was about nature itself changing one bit.

You are wrong. Deut 30:19-- John 17:3

Those verses say nothing about your irrational false claim that people will live forever on earth one day...


That is not the good news of Gods kingdom, That is a delusion of the deranged.

Jesus himself mentioned one can get eternal life by knowing his Father as the only true God and knowing Jesus-- John 17:1-6,26-- That name= YHWH(Jehovah)
Not wise to call Jesus the liar in your darkness.
The bible teaches those things about Gods kingdom, in every translation on earth--You must have forgot to read the bible.

What Jesus said equating eternal life with knowing God has absolutely nothing with what you are saying that in the future people will never get sick, feel pain, or die physical deaths and will live on earth forever.

Thats pure rubbish. Even Jesus, like all human beings must, died a physical death.

I am not calling Jesus a liar.

I am calling you a liar.

The Ot made many promises about Gods kingdom on the earth. It says they will never say I am sick--A lion lays with a lamb=harmony amongst all creatures--A child will play on a cobra hole and no harm will come to him. Food will overflow the mountains--meaning enough for all always. Its just as my post said--Gods kingdom is a cure all-- God created mortals to know only good. The 3 rebels in Eden caused this system, it is almost done.

Well, all of those promises had contingencies and expectations attached to them and those who failed to hold up their end of the deal broke the deal, period, so we can dispense with the fiction that all Jews are 'special' and all Jews have to be born Jews, for one; Xians are as Jewish as any other as far as the covenants, old and new, go.

 

[Picaro]

There's only one person there. You're being deceived.

I say you are--Facts say you are being deceived--If its one person then at Rev 1:1--God said--here me have a revelation--he would be insane. And at rev 3:12--God has a God. You have been lied to--every trinity religion on the earth does not have truth. This is their fate--Mark 3:24-26--A house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand--you can take that to the bank--Jesus is with one single religion-1Cor 1:10)

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

Actually Jesus was very well informed about the Jewish 'mysteries', and many of the first Christians were Pharisees, also very well versed in Jewish theology and law.

Chrisitanity just isn't a theology for sissies and the weak willed; Jesus ran with a tough crowd, as the name of a song says. People endlessly trying to reinvent the next 'New And Improved Hippie Jesus' are never going to succeed at that ridiculous agenda, that's all.

there were other influences in the same era as well; besides a thorough knowledge of the Torah and the Mosaic covenants, Jesus, Paul, and John, Luke, and Mathew were also familiar with Hillel's school and well as his rival's teachings. The authors likely among the most educated scholars of their times, including many of the Temple officials and priests.

Did you know--From Moses on up until this very day. In every synagogue and temple, taught, served, and worshipped-- A single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)--The God taught to every name you mentioned. Which included Jesus his first 30 years. Not one of them ever refuted that God, because he is the only true living God-The Father-1Cor 8:6-John 4:22-24)

Do you know that over 80% of Jews aren't religious at all and don't practice Judaism, and aren't part of the OT covenants at all?

 

[Picaro]

While I don't disagree, a bit of caution here. I strongly suspect that those who flock to Christian threads to taunt and mock and/or attempt to derail are not always doing so out of pure malice.

Well, by the sheer numbers of the neurotics and sickos doing that, you would be wrong; most of them are indeed here to bully and taunt Xians. They make that obvious. They also make it obvious it's a deliberate political pogrom.

I suspect at least some do so because deep down they are terrified that Christians may indeed be onto something that they neither share nor feel, but may be true. And how we deal with them may or may not inspire them to seek it. If not, why would they be so fascinated with these topics? Or so compelled to post in these threads when they ignore dozens of other topics that are uninteresting to them?

Most are indeed superstitious pagans of one sort or another; pagans are really into sexual deviancies, witchcraft, sociopathic hatred of humans in general, and need to destroy anything that stands in the way of their mindless self-indulgence. It's not coincidence that the pogroms against Xians by modern 'progressives' and other 'rationalist' ideologies end up with mass murders and genocides, a la the Hitlers, Stalins, and Maos, all hiding under the ludicrous claims of 'Rationalism'. Their compulsions are just par for the mentally ill; they have little in the way of self-control and see Xians as objects to be killed and removed as roadblocks to anarchy. These ideological also have strong pagan overtones and rituals in common as well. Mere atheists and agnostics don't have the emotional issues many of these 'critics' obviously have.

I don't know the folks so I don't presume to judge them. I think our Lord specifically warned us not to do that. We can observe actions/words etc. and judge those as helpful, thoughtful, constructive, or the opposite of that. And we are not supposed to succumb to the mockers and scoffers but we are supposed to set a good example for them. (sort of? )

I think the biblical texts aren't written for popular readers, and require some approaches to literary criticism and philosophical techniques that many lack, and they run around citing verses in isolation from the books they're written in, and some thing that means they get to make up whatever they feel like reading into them, which is why so many will argue endlessly with no idea of what they're talking about.

If you think setting a good example for tards is to give them credibility and take them seriously you should do some more reading, and under the guidance of some genuine scholars instead of pop psychologists; Christians are indeed required to make judgements all the time. Most of these sickos are not here because they have genuine interest in discussion, they're here to shut down any discussion, especially among scholars and Xians themselves, so we don't need to indulge them at all in their goals. these sociopathic vermin would happily shove you into an oven or a ditch and shoot you, or support having police and military doing that with their hearty approval.

 

[Picaro]

There's only one person there. You're being deceived.

I say you are--Facts say you are being deceived--If its one person then at Rev 1:1--God said--here me have a revelation--he would be insane. And at rev 3:12--God has a God. You have been lied to--every trinity religion on the earth does not have truth. This is their fate--Mark 3:24-26--A house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand--you can take that to the bank--Jesus is with one single religion-1Cor 1:10)

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

Actually Jesus was very well informed about the Jewish 'mysteries', and many of the first Christians were Pharisees, also very well versed in Jewish theology and law.

Chrisitanity just isn't a theology for sissies and the weak willed; Jesus ran with a tough crowd, as the name of a song says. People endlessly trying to reinvent the next 'New And Improved Hippie Jesus' are never going to succeed at that ridiculous agenda, that's all.

you have no way of knowing of what Jesus was INFORMED. I have no doubt based on the words that can be CREDIBLY
attributed to an historic Jesus----that he was a literate and educated
Pharisee jew of the school of Hillel (like just about all Pharisees
of his time) That the Romans wanted to kill him and the Sadducee Priest -roman shill , Caiphas helped them is just about
all the evidence that any thinking person needs to draw the same
conclusion. But why deal with reality when you can fantasize.
I find the new plays-----CREATIVE-----especially the treatment of the
Judas character

The more you post, the more obvious it is you don't know squat, either about history or Judaeo-Christian theology.

 

[Picaro]

your entire post is utterly idiotic--------it is based on absolutely nothing------every word. Who were the "Israelite spiritual leaders
of that time? --------You IDIOTICALLY refer to these imaginary people but cannot name EVEN ONE. You then DECIDE what
all the jews of Judea "THOUGHT". Your claim that DA JOOOS
tried to kill Jesus-----is even more idiotic. If DA JOOOS wanted to
kill Jesus------why didn't they? If Jesus did not like the written law---why is he accused by your very own of claiming----I DO NOT
INTEND TO CHANGE A JOT.------he was lying?. Jesus said
"satan rules the world" when did he come up with that one?
It is not your fault-----you sunday school teacher screwed your mind

Oh I am sorry, I thought you had a clue. Your lack of understanding reality is the problem.

I have lots of understanding-----I understand that I asked very
simple questions about that which you posted-----and you are
unable to answer ANY of the very simple questions.

I will repeat just one of the VERY simple questions----
> Who were the Israelite spiritual leaders who wanted
to kill Jesus < ??? try to answer----I am getting
tired of asking this very simple question

Herod?

excellent answer ---DINGY-----It is just as I understand----you have
no idea about the life and times of the PERSON JESUS. There is
no doubt that Herod would have DISLIKED JESUS------but he was
ABSOLUTELY NOT-----an Israelite spiritual leader. He was not
even a JOOOO. He was an EDOMITE---educated in rome and
APPOINTED BY ROME to be DA KING OF JUDEA. -----the people
who OPPOSED HIM VEHEMENTLY-----were the PHARISEES---like
John da mikvah man (and Pharisee) and Jesus the PHARISEE.
For the record----I was not educated in jewish history by some JEWISH
ORGANIZATION. I was not educated in CHRISTIAN history---by some Jewish organization--------I just read lots and lots in my youth---
and was schlepped to sunday school by a very kindly Christian neighbor-------to accompany her daughter---my little playmate. I have no doubt that lots of little sunday school goers (in fact I know) believe that the
evil "money changers" in the temple court yard were PHARISEES-----
NOPE!!!!! they were Sadducees----just as were the ROMAN APPOINTEE "high priests" at that time. Of all people in the realm---
the person that DA PHARISEE JOOOOS (including Jesus) hated the
most was CAIAPHAS-----the roman appointee who (as the story goes)
paid judas to "betray" ------"Christ". see? the people that miss sunday school teacher TOLD you were da evil jooooo "trying to kill"
jesus, the petty minded legalists------was JESUS HIMSELF------a PHARISEE. so now you know. You got one thing right-----
The Pharisee jews are the TALMUDISTS-----just like the guy Jesus
liked the most and quoted incessently ----HILLEL. The Romans
despised the Pharisees. The Pharisees RESISTED THE ROMAN WAY OF LIFE--------they refuse to kiss roman ass and laugh at lion lunch
spectacles

lol lol lol your 'family background' changes with nearly every thread. Your Chasidic racist family and neighbors have always been bad liars, so naturally you wouldn't be very skilled at it either.

I do believe you when you said you had serious brain injuries, and they had to remove half of it or something through a hole in the top of your head, though.

 

[JW Frogen]

When God says mow the lawn, you had better mow the lawn,

 

[irosie91]

I say you are--Facts say you are being deceived--If its one person then at Rev 1:1--God said--here me have a revelation--he would be insane. And at rev 3:12--God has a God. You have been lied to--every trinity religion on the earth does not have truth. This is their fate--Mark 3:24-26--A house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand--you can take that to the bank--Jesus is with one single religion-1Cor 1:10)

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

who were the "supposed scholars of 'jesus day" ? Can you identify any of those 'supposed scholars' who evaluated 'jesus
and his apostles'? Please try to be, at least, a little specific.
Eg---the "supposed scholars were........." and "this is what
_________said about Jesus..." I am sure that you understand
that by the time Jesus was living-----most adult jewish males were
literate. I would GUESS that Jesus was literate

The only group on earth who ( were) Gods chosen)-- Israel. The Pharisees, saducees, most assuredly the scribes as well. God was trying to turn them around back to him--They rejected him and his Messiah--They were cut off-Matthew 23:37-39)
Jesus was Gods son, Was he literate.
The Israelite spiritual leaders, kept-EVERY written Law--They unfortunately took them to far. They had false reasoning concerning the messiah--They thought Jesus was coming then when he did, but thought a mighty king was coming to fight the romans and rid them of their rule. A mere carpenters son shows up telling them they are making many errors concerning the Laws of God and that he brought a new covenant-Love instead of written Law. They hated him and tried to kill him a few x. Those were Gods chosen scholars of the day.
It shows how powerful satan is--Jesus said satan rules this world( system of things)--No wonder the bible teaches---Beware if you think you are standing strong.

Actually only the Jews who promote the Covenant matter; the rest aren't 'chosen'. The people who are 'chosen' were chosen by grace, not race, or intelligence, or any other reason. Those that stop promoting the Covenants were either punished or abandoned, and the history make that very clear, as does the OT and NT itself; your are seriously mistaken if you think Gentiles can't be Jewish, and count, and it's a matter of race.

And, Jesus was very much an 'old school' Rabbi, all about returning to the original intent and Mosaic teachings, and brought with a new Covenant, since most of the Jews running the temples and the politics had long abandoned the Covenants and focused on themselves as a 'Master Race' and assigned themselves privileges and offices based on their genealogies, not their religion. The last 'prophet' sent was Malachi, some 300 years before the Christian era. The Pharisees rose to power in that time span, and other schools, like Hillel's, came along as reformers as well.

And no, the 'Israelites' were a separate Jewish tribe from that of Judah, and no, the spiritual leaders of the Temple were not keeping the law, they were merely indulging in 'legalisms', quit a different thing than keeping the spirit of Moses and their covenant. They turned it into a profit center and class status for themselves.

Try again-----you forgot---I accurately stated that as a child I did not
experience any religious indoctrination----other than protestant sunday
school. I know all about the idiot shit driven into the heads of innocent
Christian children. "THE PHARISEES rose to power" ???
yeah? right there in Roman occupied Judea? The Roman appointed
high priests --(sadducees) of the temple were "indulging in legalisms"----
and the term "Pharisee" means mean rotten inhumane bastard" Best of all---
"HILLEL WAS A REFORMER" Nope---Hillel was a Talmudist--- He had
some opposition-----but in issues you could not possibly grasp. At the time
of Jesus for DA JEWS who rejected the filth of YOUR UNIVERSE----ie
the roman world----HILLEL was DA MAN-----the PHARISEE man---just
as he was for Jesus. It's not your fault---you are the product of your
"culture" which has defined "Pharisee" as evil-----because the roman
emperor and the gladiator masters DESPISED THEM (and crucified the
Pharisee Jesus) -----Well---OF COURSE da joooos were desperate
to kill Jesus-----but somehow----MAGICALLY----could not manage to kill
a mild man who slept in their midst... so DA JOOOS forced the romans to
do it and the romans GRACIOUSLY complied because the joooos
CHEERED "kill him kill him"---------how is santa doing with his magic
reindeer? You read this stuff and managed to BELIEVE IT? You
are clueless.
Jesus "returned to the original"------sunday Sabbath for GLADIATOR
CIRCUS TIME. Tell me now about the issue of POSITION which was
GRABBED by the Pharisees--- Tell me about the RULING PHARISEES
at the time of jesus -------wallowing in wealth in the temple-----like your
sunday school bitch told you

 

[irosie91]

question for my USMB cyber-buddies-------how many of you guys out there---as
children----assumed that the "money changers" in the Temple court yard consisted
of mean rotten greedy Pharisees?

 

[hobelim]

question for my USMB cyber-buddies-------how many of you guys out there---as
children----assumed that the "money changers" in the Temple court yard consisted
of mean rotten greedy Pharisees?

I heard that the Pharisees viewed worldly wealth as a sign of being blessed by God. Many still do, even many Christians do.

Jesus compared that conclusion to the conclusion of vermin that stumbled into a garbage dump, based on the garbage that came out of their mouths.

Many on all sides still do degenerate things to keep up the appearance of being blessed by God. Wicked people continued to do wicked things even after Jesus came and went. Had nothing to do with being a Jew or a Gentile, a pharisee or a sadducee, a centurion or a prisoner, a rich man or a pauper.

What does the evil king do to protect his throne in all of the stories? Murder all the children who might one day grow up to unseat him?

Thats religion and politics in a nutshell, like two horns on the same beast.


C'mon rosie, the least you can do is try to be kosher...

 

[irosie91]

question for my USMB cyber-buddies-------how many of you guys out there---as
children----assumed that the "money changers" in the Temple court yard consisted
of mean rotten greedy Pharisees?

I heard that the Pharisees viewed worldly wealth as a sign of being blessed by God. Many still do, even many Christians do.

Jesus compared that conclusion to the conclusion of vermin that stumbled into a garbage dump, based on the garbage that came out of their mouths.

Many on all sides still do degenerate things to keep up the appearance of being blessed by God. Wicked people continued to do wicked things even after Jesus came and went. Had nothing to do with being a Jew or a Gentile.

What is the story about what the evil king does to protect his throne? Murder all the children who might one day grow up to unseat him?

Thats religion and politics in a nutshell, like two horns on the same beast.


C'mon rosie, the least you can do is try to be kosher...

there is no question that people---(including Pharisees) believe that properity
is a blessing-------did you make a point? There is no question----that people
(including Pharisees) have a romantic idealized view of righteous impoverished
people ------the idea that """saints give all they own and themselves live
esthetic lives"""" is a standard thruout the world. ----Jewish literature and
legend is just as CHOCK FULL of it as is Christian (and hindu and Buddhist....
and on and on....) did you make a point? do you IMAGINE that you made
a point? As to "evil kings" Yeah----HEROD was considered an evil king----
pretender, edomite, roman appointee-------so a story that he tried to murder
babies-----FIT RIGHT IN

 

[hobelim]

question for my USMB cyber-buddies-------how many of you guys out there---as
children----assumed that the "money changers" in the Temple court yard consisted
of mean rotten greedy Pharisees?

I heard that the Pharisees viewed worldly wealth as a sign of being blessed by God. Many still do, even many Christians do.

Jesus compared that conclusion to the conclusion of vermin that stumbled into a garbage dump, based on the garbage that came out of their mouths.

Many on all sides still do degenerate things to keep up the appearance of being blessed by God. Wicked people continued to do wicked things even after Jesus came and went. Had nothing to do with being a Jew or a Gentile.

What is the story about what the evil king does to protect his throne? Murder all the children who might one day grow up to unseat him?

Thats religion and politics in a nutshell, like two horns on the same beast.


C'mon rosie, the least you can do is try to be kosher...

there is no question that people---(including Pharisees) believe that properity
is a blessing-------did you make a point? There is no question----that people
(including Pharisees) have a romantic idealized view of righteous impoverished
people ------the idea that """saints give all they own and themselves live
esthetic lives"""" is a standard thruout the world. ----Jewish literature and
legend is just as CHOCK FULL of it as is Christian (and hindu and Buddhist....
and on and on....) did you make a point? do you IMAGINE that you made
a point? As to "evil kings" Yeah----HEROD was considered an evil king----
pretender, edomite, roman appointee-------so a story that he tried to murder
babies-----FIT RIGHT IN

If all of the children were killed literally by the evil king in any story there would be no empire to rule over in no time flat


However there are many ways to skin a cat, many ways for an evil king to kill the individual when they are still very young virtually eliminating any future threat to their hold on power while keeping the bodies around like personal possessions to do their bidding and bleed and fleece for life.

We would call the cultic indoctrination of children brainwashing or mind control. In the first century they called it demonic possession or sorcery.

Jesus the weirdo called it murder and compared the pharisees, sadducees, scribes, priests, temple police, money changers, offering merchants, doctors and lawyers, the ruling elite of the entire corrupt system, to fattened beasts, serpents, vultures, wolves, demons and ghouls who were robbing the dead, according to the story that is...

 

[Foxfyre]

While I don't disagree, a bit of caution here. I strongly suspect that those who flock to Christian threads to taunt and mock and/or attempt to derail are not always doing so out of pure malice.

Well, by the sheer numbers of the neurotics and sickos doing that, you would be wrong; most of them are indeed here to bully and taunt Xians. They make that obvious. They also make it obvious it's a deliberate political pogrom.

I suspect at least some do so because deep down they are terrified that Christians may indeed be onto something that they neither share nor feel, but may be true. And how we deal with them may or may not inspire them to seek it. If not, why would they be so fascinated with these topics? Or so compelled to post in these threads when they ignore dozens of other topics that are uninteresting to them?

Most are indeed superstitious pagans of one sort or another; pagans are really into sexual deviancies, witchcraft, sociopathic hatred of humans in general, and need to destroy anything that stands in the way of their mindless self-indulgence. It's not coincidence that the pogroms against Xians by modern 'progressives' and other 'rationalist' ideologies end up with mass murders and genocides, a la the Hitlers, Stalins, and Maos, all hiding under the ludicrous claims of 'Rationalism'. Their compulsions are just par for the mentally ill; they have little in the way of self-control and see Xians as objects to be killed and removed as roadblocks to anarchy. These ideological also have strong pagan overtones and rituals in common as well. Mere atheists and agnostics don't have the emotional issues many of these 'critics' obviously have.

I don't know the folks so I don't presume to judge them. I think our Lord specifically warned us not to do that. We can observe actions/words etc. and judge those as helpful, thoughtful, constructive, or the opposite of that. And we are not supposed to succumb to the mockers and scoffers but we are supposed to set a good example for them. (sort of? )

I think the biblical texts aren't written for popular readers, and require some approaches to literary criticism and philosophical techniques that many lack, and they run around citing verses in isolation from the books they're written in, and some thing that means they get to make up whatever they feel like reading into them, which is why so many will argue endlessly with no idea of what they're talking about.

If you think setting a good example for tards is to give them credibility and take them seriously you should do some more reading, and under the guidance of some genuine scholars instead of pop psychologists; Christians are indeed required to make judgements all the time. Most of these sickos are not here because they have genuine interest in discussion, they're here to shut down any discussion, especially among scholars and Xians themselves, so we don't need to indulge them at all in their goals. these sociopathic vermin would happily shove you into an oven or a ditch and shoot you, or support having police and military doing that with their hearty approval.

While I don't disagree that pop psychologists can give very flawed, sometimes even dangerous, advice, perhaps you should spend more time studying what Christians know and believe instead of assuming somebody is uneducated or unsophisticated? I won't bother boring everybody with my resume, but I can assure you I have studied under some of the best Biblical and theological scholars on the planet including some who are top of their field in some of the most prestigious seminaries yet today. And that would include several different denominations. My opinions are not uninformed. So you could be a bit less self-righteous and smug about that?

I will say again that it is the followers of the Christ's teachings and examples then and/or now who are the ones who identify as Christians. We became Christians when we acknowledged that we we are sinners, but accepted the forgiveness, love, assurance, and power to reject sin through a relationship with the Christ. And even though we are yet sinners and often fall short, that relationship helps us love others as He loves us. It commands us to judge, i.e. reject and speak out against cruelty, hatefulness, false witness, and any other evil that harms ourselves and or others, i.e. sin. It is important that we address the sin, however, as it is God's exclusive prerogative to judge what is in another's mind and heart.

And I hate to think how many may have been turned away from the God's love, assurance, and salvation because of the unkind way He was introduced or demonstrated to them by His followers.

 

[kjw47]

I say you are--Facts say you are being deceived--If its one person then at Rev 1:1--God said--here me have a revelation--he would be insane. And at rev 3:12--God has a God. You have been lied to--every trinity religion on the earth does not have truth. This is their fate--Mark 3:24-26--A house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand--you can take that to the bank--Jesus is with one single religion-1Cor 1:10)

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

who were the "supposed scholars of 'jesus day" ? Can you identify any of those 'supposed scholars' who evaluated 'jesus
and his apostles'? Please try to be, at least, a little specific.
Eg---the "supposed scholars were........." and "this is what
_________said about Jesus..." I am sure that you understand
that by the time Jesus was living-----most adult jewish males were
literate. I would GUESS that Jesus was literate

The only group on earth who ( were) Gods chosen)-- Israel. The Pharisees, saducees, most assuredly the scribes as well. God was trying to turn them around back to him--They rejected him and his Messiah--They were cut off-Matthew 23:37-39)
Jesus was Gods son, Was he literate.
The Israelite spiritual leaders, kept-EVERY written Law--They unfortunately took them to far. They had false reasoning concerning the messiah--They thought Jesus was coming then when he did, but thought a mighty king was coming to fight the romans and rid them of their rule. A mere carpenters son shows up telling them they are making many errors concerning the Laws of God and that he brought a new covenant-Love instead of written Law. They hated him and tried to kill him a few x. Those were Gods chosen scholars of the day.
It shows how powerful satan is--Jesus said satan rules this world( system of things)--No wonder the bible teaches---Beware if you think you are standing strong.

Actually only the Jews who promote the Covenant matter; the rest aren't 'chosen'. The people who are 'chosen' were chosen by grace, not race, or intelligence, or any other reason. Those that stop promoting the Covenants were either punished or abandoned, and the history make that very clear, as does the OT and NT itself; your are seriously mistaken if you think Gentiles can't be Jewish, and count, and it's a matter of race.

And, Jesus was very much an 'old school' Rabbi, all about returning to the original intent and Mosaic teachings, and brought with a new Covenant, since most of the Jews running the temples and the politics had long abandoned the Covenants and focused on themselves as a 'Master Race' and assigned themselves privileges and offices based on their genealogies, not their religion. The last 'prophet' sent was Malachi, some 300 years before the Christian era. The Pharisees rose to power in that time span, and other schools, like Hillel's, came along as reformers as well.

And no, the 'Israelites' were a separate Jewish tribe from that of Judah, and no, the spiritual leaders of the Temple were not keeping the law, they were merely indulging in 'legalisms', quit a different thing than keeping the spirit of Moses and their covenant. They turned it into a profit center and class status for themselves.

Did you miss this truth? Matthew 23:37-39--Israelite religion-cut off of being Gods chosen until they do verse 39 -they will not. Over 1950 years they have outright refused. The Pharisees in Jesus day saw the new religion begin-Acts 24:5--Revelation occurring right now-Jesus speaks to 7 congregations.

 

[kjw47]

You are wrong. Deut 30:19-- John 17:3

Those verses say nothing about your irrational false claim that people will live forever on earth one day...


That is not the good news of Gods kingdom, That is a delusion of the deranged.

Jesus himself mentioned one can get eternal life by knowing his Father as the only true God and knowing Jesus-- John 17:1-6,26-- That name= YHWH(Jehovah)
Not wise to call Jesus the liar in your darkness.
The bible teaches those things about Gods kingdom, in every translation on earth--You must have forgot to read the bible.

What Jesus said equating eternal life with knowing God has absolutely nothing with what you are saying that in the future people will never get sick, feel pain, or die physical deaths and will live on earth forever.

Thats pure rubbish. Even Jesus, like all human beings must, died a physical death.

I am not calling Jesus a liar.

I am calling you a liar.

The Ot made many promises about Gods kingdom on the earth. It says they will never say I am sick--A lion lays with a lamb=harmony amongst all creatures--A child will play on a cobra hole and no harm will come to him. Food will overflow the mountains--meaning enough for all always. Its just as my post said--Gods kingdom is a cure all-- God created mortals to know only good. The 3 rebels in Eden caused this system, it is almost done.

Well, all of those promises had contingencies and expectations attached to them and those who failed to hold up their end of the deal broke the deal, period, so we can dispense with the fiction that all Jews are 'special' and all Jews have to be born Jews, for one; Xians are as Jewish as any other as far as the covenants, old and new, go.

The real Christians serve the God of Israel= a single being God named-YHWH( Jehovah) and accept Jesus as the one sent forth by God-The Messiah.

 

[kjw47]

I say you are--Facts say you are being deceived--If its one person then at Rev 1:1--God said--here me have a revelation--he would be insane. And at rev 3:12--God has a God. You have been lied to--every trinity religion on the earth does not have truth. This is their fate--Mark 3:24-26--A house divided( 34,000 trinity based religions) will not stand--you can take that to the bank--Jesus is with one single religion-1Cor 1:10)

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

Actually Jesus was very well informed about the Jewish 'mysteries', and many of the first Christians were Pharisees, also very well versed in Jewish theology and law.

Chrisitanity just isn't a theology for sissies and the weak willed; Jesus ran with a tough crowd, as the name of a song says. People endlessly trying to reinvent the next 'New And Improved Hippie Jesus' are never going to succeed at that ridiculous agenda, that's all.

there were other influences in the same era as well; besides a thorough knowledge of the Torah and the Mosaic covenants, Jesus, Paul, and John, Luke, and Mathew were also familiar with Hillel's school and well as his rival's teachings. The authors likely among the most educated scholars of their times, including many of the Temple officials and priests.

Did you know--From Moses on up until this very day. In every synagogue and temple, taught, served, and worshipped-- A single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)--The God taught to every name you mentioned. Which included Jesus his first 30 years. Not one of them ever refuted that God, because he is the only true living God-The Father-1Cor 8:6-John 4:22-24)

Do you know that over 80% of Jews aren't religious at all and don't practice Judaism, and aren't part of the OT covenants at all?

I know, satan beat 99% living now centuries ago. They don't even know it.

 

[kjw47]

The person in verse 7 is the same person in verse 8. Read the Scriptures as they are written, not through the watchtower lens. Jesus is Jehovah.

The Watchtower is a cult with many false prophecies over the years. Ask your leaders who translated the New World Translation and I guarantee you they will not give you the names. Do your own research. They were 4 men, and only one of them had any knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. The NWT isn't a credible translation. Do the research.
Jehovah's Witnesses

The supposed scholars of Jesus day--taught-- It was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be real teachers, they did not attend their schools of men. Jesus real teachers do not need the schools of men, the holy spirit gives them truth at the proper time. As set up by God and his son. I know 100% they are the teachers Jesus appointed.

who were the "supposed scholars of 'jesus day" ? Can you identify any of those 'supposed scholars' who evaluated 'jesus
and his apostles'? Please try to be, at least, a little specific.
Eg---the "supposed scholars were........." and "this is what
_________said about Jesus..." I am sure that you understand
that by the time Jesus was living-----most adult jewish males were
literate. I would GUESS that Jesus was literate

The only group on earth who ( were) Gods chosen)-- Israel. The Pharisees, saducees, most assuredly the scribes as well. God was trying to turn them around back to him--They rejected him and his Messiah--They were cut off-Matthew 23:37-39)
Jesus was Gods son, Was he literate.
The Israelite spiritual leaders, kept-EVERY written Law--They unfortunately took them to far. They had false reasoning concerning the messiah--They thought Jesus was coming then when he did, but thought a mighty king was coming to fight the romans and rid them of their rule. A mere carpenters son shows up telling them they are making many errors concerning the Laws of God and that he brought a new covenant-Love instead of written Law. They hated him and tried to kill him a few x. Those were Gods chosen scholars of the day.
It shows how powerful satan is--Jesus said satan rules this world( system of things)--No wonder the bible teaches---Beware if you think you are standing strong.

Actually only the Jews who promote the Covenant matter; the rest aren't 'chosen'. The people who are 'chosen' were chosen by grace, not race, or intelligence, or any other reason. Those that stop promoting the Covenants were either punished or abandoned, and the history make that very clear, as does the OT and NT itself; your are seriously mistaken if you think Gentiles can't be Jewish, and count, and it's a matter of race.

And, Jesus was very much an 'old school' Rabbi, all about returning to the original intent and Mosaic teachings, and brought with a new Covenant, since most of the Jews running the temples and the politics had long abandoned the Covenants and focused on themselves as a 'Master Race' and assigned themselves privileges and offices based on their genealogies, not their religion. The last 'prophet' sent was Malachi, some 300 years before the Christian era. The Pharisees rose to power in that time span, and other schools, like Hillel's, came along as reformers as well.

And no, the 'Israelites' were a separate Jewish tribe from that of Judah, and no, the spiritual leaders of the Temple were not keeping the law, they were merely indulging in 'legalisms', quit a different thing than keeping the spirit of Moses and their covenant. They turned it into a profit center and class status for themselves.

Try again-----you forgot---I accurately stated that as a child I did not
experience any religious indoctrination----other than protestant sunday
school. I know all about the idiot shit driven into the heads of innocent
Christian children. "THE PHARISEES rose to power" ???
yeah? right there in Roman occupied Judea? The Roman appointed
high priests --(sadducees) of the temple were "indulging in legalisms"----
and the term "Pharisee" means mean rotten inhumane bastard" Best of all---
"HILLEL WAS A REFORMER" Nope---Hillel was a Talmudist--- He had
some opposition-----but in issues you could not possibly grasp. At the time
of Jesus for DA JEWS who rejected the filth of YOUR UNIVERSE----ie
the roman world----HILLEL was DA MAN-----the PHARISEE man---just
as he was for Jesus. It's not your fault---you are the product of your
"culture" which has defined "Pharisee" as evil-----because the roman
emperor and the gladiator masters DESPISED THEM (and crucified the
Pharisee Jesus) -----Well---OF COURSE da joooos were desperate
to kill Jesus-----but somehow----MAGICALLY----could not manage to kill
a mild man who slept in their midst... so DA JOOOS forced the romans to
do it and the romans GRACIOUSLY complied because the joooos
CHEERED "kill him kill him"---------how is santa doing with his magic
reindeer? You read this stuff and managed to BELIEVE IT? You
are clueless.
Jesus "returned to the original"------sunday Sabbath for GLADIATOR
CIRCUS TIME. Tell me now about the issue of POSITION which was
GRABBED by the Pharisees--- Tell me about the RULING PHARISEES
at the time of jesus -------wallowing in wealth in the temple-----like your
sunday school bitch told you

It fits perfectly --99% on earth were being mislead at that -point--there aren't many points it isn't that number. It is in these last days-2Timothy 3