Whatever ever happened to the little sign ‘We have a right to refuse service’?

[BluesMistress]

There is a big difference when some one comes into a store wanting to purchase a cake/any item from the case and ordering a custom made anything.
The 1st one is generic ready for purchase...No problem...
It get's much trickier when some one is asking for custom made as cake making is an Art.

As an artist my work is MY Work and I should have a say as to where it goes and who it goes to. Who will see it and where my name is attached to that piece of work.
I sell stuff that I've got in stock to anyone who has the money to pay me for my craft. No questions asked. Just pay me and it's yours. There is no attachment to those pieces. They were made with no one in mind just for making money. I enjoy the work but....

If you come to me and want custom work done, I should/Do have a choice as to if I want to do business with you. Do I have to use the materials or a design you want even if it's not my talent or even my desire to do work with you? I don't work for You. I have a gift and I share it with those I chose to. I'm not obligated to share my artwork with You or anyone that wants me to do something I don't believe I can do my very BEST at.
Why would anyone want ART work that the artist does not have a real passion for. My custom work is made from the heart. Each part of the process is a thing of love. It's a part of me and no one can ever own that part of me. I share it. It's my Art & I own it.

I'm not a cake maker..but it is hand made. What they are wanting to order is a custom hand made cake from a professional cake maker. They are not there to buy a cake they are there to negotiate the making of a custom made cake. There is no set price and the cake will be decorated by hand with a design that the maker should have the choice as to if they want to take on the order or not. He may be busy, she may not have the juju needed for a design that day. It's all up to the artist if they want to do custom work. Always should be the choice of the artist as it Their Art. They own it.

It's the artwark they are buying otherwise they would just go to Costco and get a cake. You can get the same exact design at any Costco. They'll customize with a name or congratulations across the top in several color choices

For me it's if you want a cake then buy one. There are all kinds of cakes already made in the case. Take your pick....But the cake maker/artist should never be obligated to do custom work they are not comfortable doing for any reason.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Whatever ever happened to the little sign… ‘We have a right to refuse service’?


It was replaced with a sign that says "Shirts and Shoes required"

To keep out redneck conservatives

Actually the signs started popping uo to keep long-haired hippies out of restaurants in the 60s.

 

[Bfgrn]

Liberal Republicans certainly are no friend of smaller government, but I think the line that they view over taxing and spending as extremist and reactionary isn't typically how far they go.

No one likes "over taxing".
Where people disagree is on "how much taxing is over taxing".
And very few hold to the belief that "any taxing is over taxing".

Since the purpose of taxes are supposed to be to fund the government, that liberals want punitive taxes where higher tax rates do not increase tax revenue does mean they support overtaxing

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

They were the Progressives of their day.

 

[The T]

There is a big difference when some one comes into a store wanting to purchase a cake/any item from the case and ordering a custom made anything.
The 1st one is generic ready for purchase...No problem...
It get's much trickier when some one is asking for custom made as cake making is an Art.

As an artist my work is MY Work and I should have a say as to where it goes and who it goes to. Who will see it and where my name is attached to that piece of work.
I sell stuff that I've got in stock to anyone who has the money to pay me for my craft. No questions asked. Just pay me and it's yours. There is no attachment to those pieces. They were made with no one in mind just for making money. I enjoy the work but....

If you come to me and want custom work done, I should/Do have a choice as to if I want to do business with you. Do I have to use the materials or a design you want even if it's not my talent or even my desire to do work with you? I don't work for You. I have a gift and I share it with those I chose to. I'm not obligated to share my artwork with You or anyone that wants me to do something I don't believe I can do my very BEST at.
Why would anyone want ART work that the artist does not have a real passion for. My custom work is made from the heart. Each part of the process is a thing of love. It's a part of me and no one can ever own that part of me. I share it. It's my Art & I own it.

I'm not a cake maker..but it is hand made. What they are wanting to order is a custom hand made cake from a professional cake maker. They are not there to buy a cake they are there to negotiate the making of a custom made cake. There is no set price and the cake will be decorated by hand with a design that the maker should have the choice as to if they want to take on the order or not. He may be busy, she may not have the juju needed for a design that day. It's all up to the artist if they want to do custom work. Always should be the choice of the artist as it Their Art. They own it.

It's the artwark they are buying otherwise they would just go to Costco and get a cake. You can get the same exact design at any Costco. They'll customize with a name or congratulations across the top in several color choices

For me it's if you want a cake then buy one. There are all kinds of cakes already made in the case. Take your pick....But the cake maker/artist should never be obligated to do custom work they are not comfortable doing for any reason.

Indeed. This whole thing is a case of forced acceptance...Forced servitude by an out of control Government for the sake of a socially unacceptable lifestyle. PERIOD.

 

[Kondor3]

There is a big difference when some one comes into a store wanting to purchase a cake/any item from the case and ordering a custom made anything.
The 1st one is generic ready for purchase...No problem...
It get's much trickier when some one is asking for custom made as cake making is an Art.

As an artist my work is MY Work and I should have a say as to where it goes and who it goes to. Who will see it and where my name is attached to that piece of work.
I sell stuff that I've got in stock to anyone who has the money to pay me for my craft. No questions asked. Just pay me and it's yours. There is no attachment to those pieces. They were made with no one in mind just for making money. I enjoy the work but....

If you come to me and want custom work done, I should/Do have a choice as to if I want to do business with you. Do I have to use the materials or a design you want even if it's not my talent or even my desire to do work with you? I don't work for You. I have a gift and I share it with those I chose to. I'm not obligated to share my artwork with You or anyone that wants me to do something I don't believe I can do my very BEST at.
Why would anyone want ART work that the artist does not have a real passion for. My custom work is made from the heart. Each part of the process is a thing of love. It's a part of me and no one can ever own that part of me. I share it. It's my Art & I own it.

I'm not a cake maker..but it is hand made. What they are wanting to order is a custom hand made cake from a professional cake maker. They are not there to buy a cake they are there to negotiate the making of a custom made cake. There is no set price and the cake will be decorated by hand with a design that the maker should have the choice as to if they want to take on the order or not. He may be busy, she may not have the juju needed for a design that day. It's all up to the artist if they want to do custom work. Always should be the choice of the artist as it Their Art. They own it.

It's the artwark they are buying otherwise they would just go to Costco and get a cake. You can get the same exact design at any Costco. They'll customize with a name or congratulations across the top in several color choices

For me it's if you want a cake then buy one. There are all kinds of cakes already made in the case. Take your pick....But the cake maker/artist should never be obligated to do custom work they are not comfortable doing for any reason.

Indeed. This whole thing is a case of forced acceptance...Forced servitude by an out of control Government for the sake of a socially unacceptable lifestyle. PERIOD.

A state of affairs that should not (indeed, hopefully, will not) be allowed to stand, as we move past January 20, 2017.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yo Rottie!

The game ain't over yet. You haven't won.

 

[Kondor3]

...Isn't it AMAZING that the image of America you right wingers paint offers oppression of those you deem "contemptible, unclean, corrupt, unnatural, perverse" and EXACTLY like the nations you like to accuse liberals of embracing?...

Gather an infinite number of monkeys, using an infinite number of typewriters, and, eventually, one of them will write a play of Shakespeare's.

Even nations that do not meet our standards for human rights or goodwill or trustworthiness or like-ability, will eventually come up with a good idea once in a while.

That does not mean that there is a further symmetry, beyond an occasional common idea.

Regardless of how you would like to pitch it.

Both Russia and Iran have a good idea, in abiding by the wishes of their people, and abiding by their respective spiritual and religious heritage, to suppress public manifestations of homosexual behaviors and activism.

It's just that both go too far overboard, with respect to the means by which they effect that suppression, at least by our (and even broader Western-at-large) standards.

I don't have to approve-of or applaud Iran for hanging or stoning gays, to serve-up a grudging respect for their public loathing of homosexual activism.

It doesn't mean that we have anything else substantive in common.

The implications behind your observation are rejected and set aside with prejudice.

 

[rightwinger]

Not according to your initial post. According to you - refusal is legal so long as their is a "little sign" (your words chief). I blinded them in red above. You keep contradicting your own position.

Furthermore, I will note your belief that poor children should die in the street because they can't afford shoes so that they can enter McDonald's.

Typical greedy/heartless liberal....

There is a difference in the eyes of the law

A person cannot help being black or gay. They are born that way. But Redneck Conservatives are that way by CHOICE. So "No Shirt, no Shoes, no Service" signs are a legal and effective way of keeping them out of your establishment
Besides, paying customers find it objectionable being forced to dine with them. You know how they are

Dude, what are you talking about?!? There are tons of children out there who can't afford shoes. They can't help that. But you think they should be denied food and die in the streets?

You keep contradicting yourself. I feel sorry for you (when I'm not laughing at you )

No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service........is just a subtle way to keep Redneck Conservative trash out of respectable Buisiness establishments. You have to appreciate that most people do not want their children subjected such people

Employees must wash hands is another little sign to dissuade Conservative rednecks from working for you

 

[Freewill]

Starkey IS one of the Far left masquerading as a Republican...shame he won't come out of his mommy's basement bunker and deal with real life.

I am thinking I am going to start saying I am a mainstream democrat then I can bad mouth all the democrats thinking I have more creds because I am a mainstream democrat. Think anyone with figure out my plan?

Emulation?

mocklation (sic)

 

[The T]

There is a difference in the eyes of the law

A person cannot help being black or gay. They are born that way. But Redneck Conservatives are that way by CHOICE. So "No Shirt, no Shoes, no Service" signs are a legal and effective way of keeping them out of your establishment
Besides, paying customers find it objectionable being forced to dine with them. You know how they are

Dude, what are you talking about?!? There are tons of children out there who can't afford shoes. They can't help that. But you think they should be denied food and die in the streets?

You keep contradicting yourself. I feel sorry for you (when I'm not laughing at you )

No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service........is just a subtle way to keep Redneck Conservative trash out of respectable Buisiness establishments. You have to appreciate that most people do not want their children subjected such people

Employees must wash hands is another little sign to dissuade Conservative rednecks from working for you

^^Idiot POST is just IDIOTIC ^^

 

[Freewill]

They were the Progressives of their day.

They did want to change the world.

 

[Bfgrn]

...Isn't it AMAZING that the image of America you right wingers paint offers oppression of those you deem "contemptible, unclean, corrupt, unnatural, perverse" and EXACTLY like the nations you like to accuse liberals of embracing?...

Gather an infinite number of monkeys, using an infinite number of typewriters, and, eventually, one of them will write a play of Shakespeare's.

Even nations that do not meet our standards for human rights or goodwill or trustworthiness or like-ability, can come up with a good idea once in a while.

That does not mean that there is a further symmetry, beyond an occasional common idea.

Regardless of how you would like to pitch it.

Both Russia and Iran have a good idea, in abiding by the wishes of their people, and abiding by their respective spiritual and religious heritage, to suppress public manifestations of homosexual behaviors and activism.

It's just that both go too far overboard, with respect to the means by which they effect that suppression, at least by our (and even broader Western-at-large) standards.

I don't have to applaud Iran for hanging or stoning gays, to serve-up a grudging respect for their public loathing of homosexual activism.

Which gets us to some FACTS that you will never see or accept. The right wing mind is too small and dogmatic.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

 

[Bfgrn]

They were the Progressives of their day.

REALLY???

"Today Christians stand at the head of our country. I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past few years."

Adolf Hitler
The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

There is a big difference when some one comes into a store wanting to purchase a cake/any item from the case and ordering a custom made anything.
The 1st one is generic ready for purchase...No problem...
It get's much trickier when some one is asking for custom made as cake making is an Art.

As an artist my work is MY Work and I should have a say as to where it goes and who it goes to. Who will see it and where my name is attached to that piece of work.
I sell stuff that I've got in stock to anyone who has the money to pay me for my craft. No questions asked. Just pay me and it's yours. There is no attachment to those pieces. They were made with no one in mind just for making money. I enjoy the work but....

If you come to me and want custom work done, I should/Do have a choice as to if I want to do business with you. Do I have to use the materials or a design you want even if it's not my talent or even my desire to do work with you? I don't work for You. I have a gift and I share it with those I chose to. I'm not obligated to share my artwork with You or anyone that wants me to do something I don't believe I can do my very BEST at.
Why would anyone want ART work that the artist does not have a real passion for. My custom work is made from the heart. Each part of the process is a thing of love. It's a part of me and no one can ever own that part of me. I share it. It's my Art & I own it.

I'm not a cake maker..but it is hand made. What they are wanting to order is a custom hand made cake from a professional cake maker. They are not there to buy a cake they are there to negotiate the making of a custom made cake. There is no set price and the cake will be decorated by hand with a design that the maker should have the choice as to if they want to take on the order or not. He may be busy, she may not have the juju needed for a design that day. It's all up to the artist if they want to do custom work. Always should be the choice of the artist as it Their Art. They own it.

It's the artwark they are buying otherwise they would just go to Costco and get a cake. You can get the same exact design at any Costco. They'll customize with a name or congratulations across the top in several color choices

For me it's if you want a cake then buy one. There are all kinds of cakes already made in the case. Take your pick....But the cake maker/artist should never be obligated to do custom work they are not comfortable doing for any reason.

The first question is whether or not your business is a public accommodation. The question must be that simple. Consider the chaos that would ensue if everyone could declare themselves an artist or a religion. Why is Hooters not performance art? What about stadium seating to view performance art on ice?

The second question is whether or not the group in question is a protected class.
Protected class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The Federal Goverment has specified certain protected classes. States may expand the list.
Example 1: New Mexico and Colorado include sexual orientation. Arizona does not.
Example 2: California's Unruh act includes many groups as protected classes. Some bizarre cases have occurred as a result.
Unruh Civil Rights Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The SCOTUS has not interfered with the rights of states to define additional protected classes.

 

[Kondor3]

They were the Progressives of their day.

REALLY???

"Today Christians stand at the head of our country. I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past few years."

Adolf Hitler
The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.

Typical LibTard wrap-up...

When you've been out-maneuvered and have nothing more intelligent to say...

Bring-out the Godwin-isms and serve 'em up, on the way out the door...

 

[Kondor3]

Which gets us to some FACTS that you will never see or accept. The right wing mind is too small and dogmatic.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives. Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

Keep deluding yourself with this 'narcotic' perception...

Opposition to homosexuality comes from all quarters, not just the Conservatives...

Despite what the polls say, coming out of the urban, metrosexual areas of the country...

The longer you delude yourself that Opposition is small and insignificant...

The easier the take-down when the time comes...

Preserving the freedom to live an individual and political life as one desires is one thing...

Empowering the freedom to engage in filthy, unclean, unnatural and perverse behaviors is quite another...

Even today, we draw the line at a number of sexual behaviors...

All we need to do is to re-interpret and re-tweak The Law in order to reestablish homosexuality as one of those proscribed behaviors...

That won't be a limiting of freedom for the few...

That will be a re-establishing of freedom for the many...

The Many will not be content to allow things to continue to drift in the perverse and abhorrent direction that they have in recent years...

Change is coming, quite probably...

Change for the better, and not in your favor...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those who proclaim that the TP are somehow are not extremist reactionary far right are lying.

The teabaggers are overwhelmingly loony far right whites with a smattering of minorities.

It is made up of social cons, fairysees, and other American outcasts.

The millennials overwhelmingly despite the TP and vote against their candidates every chance they get. The rest of America is 6:1 against them.

It's over except for all the screaming in the darkness by the far right.

And my mainstream GOP are so much better because of it.

 

[Bfgrn]

They were the Progressives of their day.

REALLY???

"Today Christians stand at the head of our country. I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past few years."

Adolf Hitler
The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.

Typical LibTard wrap-up...

When you've been out-maneuvered and have nothing more intelligent to say...

Bring-out the Godwin-isms and serve 'em up, on the way out the door...

OH, I see....

FIRST) Freewill posts an image of Nazis...

SECOND) AvgGuyIA posts "They were the Progressives of their day"

No problem up to this point...

THIRD) I post actual words by Hitler ...

THEN and ONLY then is Godwin's law applicable....

 

[JakeStarkey]

The far right are the spiritual heirs of Hitler (since Freewill brought up the original Nazi photo).