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It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.only in right wing, dystopian fantasy....ends in economic collapse.A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage...
In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
San Francisco has a lower unemployment rate, like Seattle. This not a right wing, twice a day moment.It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
The right wing is currently in the majority. Our Government is left wing. The right wing alleges to be for Capitalism and definitely not, socialism on a national basis.Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.only in right wing, dystopian fantasy....ends in economic collapse.A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage...
In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
lol You're the one who created the whole right wing/ left wing analogy. You spend countless posts criticizing the USA's current model as right wing, now it isn't? That's convenient.
Our form of government is naturally more right wing than just about any other on earth by design. Left wing is clearly the wing of big government, high centralization. Our constitution is built upon the notion of decentralization and small government.
Again, I ask of you to show me a "more" left wing government on earth with better opportunities. You didn't provide any examples yet.
San Francisco has a lower unemployment rate, like Seattle. This not a right wing, twice a day moment.It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
It hasn't failed in Seattle or San Francisco. The unemployment rate is lower. What is to prevent Labor from working two part time jobs at fifteen an hour, with such a low unemployment rate?It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
It failed in Seattle as well. Restaurants now publicly advertise to customers that they are not expected to pay tips. Why? Because the base costs went up so much that people stopped going out.
Now they have a situation where, without tips, people are making less than they were before minimum wage. The only ones gaining anything are those who under performed so much that they never made much on tips anyways.
A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is a cost of living adjustment that is expected to correct for that very Thing.San Francisco has a lower unemployment rate, like Seattle. This not a right wing, twice a day moment.It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
I think what you meant to say is it has the lowest employment rate. California has the highest poverty rate of any state. It also has the highest unemployment.
Seriously, do you research what you say or are you just hoping what you say is true?
The right wing is currently in the majority. Our Government is left wing. The right wing alleges to be for Capitalism and definitely not, socialism on a national basis.Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.only in right wing, dystopian fantasy....ends in economic collapse.
In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
lol You're the one who created the whole right wing/ left wing analogy. You spend countless posts criticizing the USA's current model as right wing, now it isn't? That's convenient.
Our form of government is naturally more right wing than just about any other on earth by design. Left wing is clearly the wing of big government, high centralization. Our constitution is built upon the notion of decentralization and small government.
Again, I ask of you to show me a "more" left wing government on earth with better opportunities. You didn't provide any examples yet.
A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is a cost of living adjustment that is expected to correct for that very Thing.San Francisco has a lower unemployment rate, like Seattle. This not a right wing, twice a day moment.It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
I think what you meant to say is it has the lowest employment rate. California has the highest poverty rate of any state. It also has the highest unemployment.
Seriously, do you research what you say or are you just hoping what you say is true?
Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.only in right wing, dystopian fantasy....ends in economic collapse.A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage...
In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
Our Government, IS left wing. What part of that do you not understand? The right wing has nothing but socialism on a national basis.The right wing is currently in the majority. Our Government is left wing. The right wing alleges to be for Capitalism and definitely not, socialism on a national basis.Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.only in right wing, dystopian fantasy.
In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
lol You're the one who created the whole right wing/ left wing analogy. You spend countless posts criticizing the USA's current model as right wing, now it isn't? That's convenient.
Our form of government is naturally more right wing than just about any other on earth by design. Left wing is clearly the wing of big government, high centralization. Our constitution is built upon the notion of decentralization and small government.
Again, I ask of you to show me a "more" left wing government on earth with better opportunities. You didn't provide any examples yet.
You are totally deflecting. You've still not answered my original question. Talk all you want about America being left wing. You've stated for pages now about how right wing our policies are, and always have been. That this administration is more or less right wing than the last doesn't change the fact that historically, America is more right wing than left wing when it comes to government structure and economic policy.
it's also no coincidence that we're the best economy either. Individualism and free market capitalism have shown themselves, through a literal incalculable amount of data, to be the best system on earth. It's why everyone moves here, and why you can't name any socialist or left(er) wing government that can compete with us.
You don't know what you are talking. Price inflation for fuel, why not whine about that, right wingers. There is a Religious technical term for that.A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is a cost of living adjustment that is expected to correct for that very Thing.San Francisco has a lower unemployment rate, like Seattle. This not a right wing, twice a day moment.It failed miserably in both California and Oregon, you ignorant douche. Minimum wage workers brought home less after the $15 minimum wage increase due to their jobs being eliminated and hours being drastically reduced.In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
You’re greedy. You’re lazy. And you’re ignorant of basic economics.
I think what you meant to say is it has the lowest employment rate. California has the highest poverty rate of any state. It also has the highest unemployment.
Seriously, do you research what you say or are you just hoping what you say is true?
Unreasonable minimum wage policy is why it's like that in the first place. You're saying you want more government to solve a problem created by more government in the first place. A very bureaucratic thing to want.
Repubs love adding to the debt.Ohhh....look at the left moving the goalposts after I proved they were dead-wrong and lying. With regards to your propaganda now: the Dumbocrats (who controlled the House and Senate) handed Obama a pile of shit. He poured gasoline all over it and then threw a lit match on it. The Republicans then handed Trump a better situation - he then covered it in gold and handed it to the American people. And that is a fact.You just proved that Bush handed obama a shit pile and trump inherited a much better situation.
Our Government is left wing. We have a Bill of Rights. Hitler's Germany, was to the right of our Government.Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.only in right wing, dystopian fantasy....ends in economic collapse.A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage...
In the US, it will be a cost of living adjustment that helps Labor, pay more in taxes and create more in demand.
Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
Define left wing and right wing. Let's get this over with so it doesn't cause these issues going forward.
I'll start.
Left Wing implies a larger more centralized role for government in managing people and resources. Right Wing a less centralized and more decentralized role for government.
Center would be an exact balance. In America, we have a constitution which explicitly forbids government from centralizing too much. It creates no such mandate FOR centralization. It bestows all untold powers to the people and has built within it measures to strip power from the government by the people- either peacefully or through force (2nd amendment).
So there. I've explained how I view it.
Now you explain to me what about America is "left wing" by design and give me a country of comparison that is more right wing please.
While you are at it, answer my original question since none of this impedes you doing so. Surely you can point toward a more left leaning country that outperforms us or gives its people better opportunities.
Why do we have the highest rates of immigration if it's so terrible here? Why is it that people leave places that have minimum wage standards, like Venezuela, for the USA? I mean, in Venezuela I can make $5,000 an hour in their currency. Surely that is better right? 5,000> 15 correct?
Our Government, IS left wing. What part of that do you not understand? The right wing has nothing but socialism on a national basis.The right wing is currently in the majority. Our Government is left wing. The right wing alleges to be for Capitalism and definitely not, socialism on a national basis.Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.Show me a left wing, Utopian paradise. To you, America is a right wing dystopian fantasy, so show me a better place on earth that is a left wing utopia. Please find one. I'll wait.
If free market economics is so bad, why does everyone want to move to America? Why is our immigration the highest in the world?
lol You're the one who created the whole right wing/ left wing analogy. You spend countless posts criticizing the USA's current model as right wing, now it isn't? That's convenient.
Our form of government is naturally more right wing than just about any other on earth by design. Left wing is clearly the wing of big government, high centralization. Our constitution is built upon the notion of decentralization and small government.
Again, I ask of you to show me a "more" left wing government on earth with better opportunities. You didn't provide any examples yet.
You are totally deflecting. You've still not answered my original question. Talk all you want about America being left wing. You've stated for pages now about how right wing our policies are, and always have been. That this administration is more or less right wing than the last doesn't change the fact that historically, America is more right wing than left wing when it comes to government structure and economic policy.
it's also no coincidence that we're the best economy either. Individualism and free market capitalism have shown themselves, through a literal incalculable amount of data, to be the best system on earth. It's why everyone moves here, and why you can't name any socialist or left(er) wing government that can compete with us.
Maybe to you.We've all heard the pseudocon Rube Herd parrot the meme that "tax cuts increase revenues". They get this meme from their propagandists and then repeat it unthinkingly.
First, I want to apologize that I cannot yet post links. I had to remove them. Instead I gave hints on what to search for. Just please note that I did actually source my statements. This forum just doesn't trust me yet as I'm new.
Let's talk about Keynes for a minute. As one will surmise, I speak of Keynesian economics negatively, but not because his economics is abjectly terrible, but because like the term "liberal" today, it has been bastardized into something precisely the opposite of that which it is meant to be.
Keynesian economics is about using an invisible hand to stabilize markets which are already under invisible influence. Most of K's work revolved around speculative trading which could produce wealth without value, thus creating spikes in the natural cycle of economic recessions and progressions. To that end, he proposed the use of financial tools as buffers to help smooth out these anomalous shifts.
His philosophy was built upon the errors of the Great Depression. It was caused by abstract wealth being used to influence value. People bought and sold stocks on margins. It became this huge thing to trade on mathematical whim rather than cold hard cash or material value. Unfortunately, there were consequences to fucking with nature. Gravity eventually caught up with that make believe dream bubble of wealth .
He realized that abstract wealth was dangerous, but unavoidable. Rather than try to eliminate it, he sought to counter it. Since Abstract wealth isn't "capitalistic" he wasn't concerned with countering it capitalistically. He was absolutely pro capitalism though. His economic policies were never meant to be used heavy handed, then again, he never intended for abstract wealth to become the majority of wealth either.
The Keynesian's of today are just socialists. They consider more spending to be more production. This is NOT what Keynesian economics is all about. He was a capitalist.
(look up the definition of Keynesian economics) His entire angle was on that of optimizations, not public control. His aim was to utilize policy to promote (not falsify) free market demand. In other words, he was merely a proponent of tweaking the pure Laissez-faire of the time.
(wikipedia laisses-faire)
I think the reason the left has wet dreams about him is because a) They think he is a socialist just because modern day proponents totally bastardized his theories, and b) because he was gay.
I can totally see b considering the extreme virtue signalling going on today, but a is trickier. I think having so many administrations (Democrat and Republican) use Keynesian ideas as a scapegoat for their carte blanche economic fuckery is why people no longer realize the original intent behind it.
There are two key facts which expose the lie hidden in that meme. First, the obvious fact is that if you lower tax rates all the way to zero, you have zero revenues. So at some point, tax cuts fail to increase revenues.
By that logic, reducing spending to zero would no longer increase debt to begin with. Which is superior as an extreme?
Reducing revenue does not increase debt. Only spending does.
The second fact is one which their propagandists deliberately keep from the rubes. This is a deliberate omission, and therefore a deliberately crafted lie. And that fact is that revenues have also increased after a tax INCREASE.
This whole line of approach is a straw man, but I can hardly doubt you for doing it because the Republicans are so good at setting themselves up for strawman arguments- Trump often as well.
What is wrong about what you say, though, is that you're looking at this from the government perspective only. You have an unstated premise which is that government spending is good and indicates a healthy economy. This is a non sequitur.
Government revenue will only go up from a tax decrease if the aggregate wealth generated goes up disproportionately to the reduction in revenue. Likewise, it will only go up after a tax raise if the reduction in aggregate free market wealth doesn't fall equally so. In either case, it is not an all or nothing phenomena. Different industries are affected in different ways.
What you cannot argue, however, is that wealth is shifting away from the government and back into the hands of the people. Only a tax cut will do that. This is an absolute boon if you are anything but a bureaucrat.
See for yourself. Here is a history of tax rates
Notice how tax rates increased under Bill Clinton in 1993. The top marginal rate increased from 31 percent to 39.6 percent, and stayed that way until 2001.
Now here is a history of federal revenues:
Again, what is the point of this? Are you trying to suggest that government revenue is good? How about they spend money more efficiently? Why is money goin into the government so important, but the money going out inconsequential? Debt is built from spending, not revenue. A government that makes zero dollars and spends zero dollars generates no debt. Spending is entirely the source of debt.
Notice how tax revenues INCREASED after the tax rates went UP a whopping 8.6 points:
FY 1991 - $1.05 trillion.
FY 1992 - $1.09 trillion.
FY 1993 - $1.15 trillion.
FY 1994 - $1.26 trillion.
FY 1995 - $1.35 trillion.
FY 1996 - $1.45 trillion.
FY 1997 - $1.58 trillion.
FY 1998 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 1999 - $1.82 trillion.
FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion
Yeah, and meanwhile the middle class was raped to death for it. The last 40 years has been an economic red wedding for low income and middle income earners.
Just a few years after Clinton's tax increase, federal revenues had DOUBLED!!!
And after the Bush tax cut expired on the top marginal rate in 2013, federal revenues continued to increase:
FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
By the way, job growth exploded during the higher tax Clinton years. 30 million jobs in 8 years, with less than 5 percent unemployment.
So the next time you are crowing about the current tax rate increasing revenues, you should know your propagandists are counting on you not looking beyond the carefully framed numbers they present to your dumb ass.
Jobs are nebulous without context. Clinton created a lot of jobs by expanding on government work force. He did this as a concession to the fact that he cut welfare. Rather than just handing people money, he simply umbrella'd them under the government's wing. So basically he put welfare artists to work instead of being on welfare ( a good first step actually) and raised taxes. Together this gave quite an illusion of rapid financial development, but again, it was Illusory (except for getting people off of welfare).
Let's get one thing straight. Clinton's short term tactics for political points looked good on paper, but they are also directly attributed to the economic recession of 2008 that people like to incorrectly credit Bush for. His democrat congress gave us the toxic loan standards which precipitated the housing crash.
Wiki subprime mortgage crisis.
Clinton wasn't a terrible Head of State in managerial matters, but he knew that he was playing hot potato with the economy on housing. He totally fucked the banks and used Keynesian principles as his scapegoat. Turns out giving free houses away works right up until the loans come due and can't be paid. Then the whole country burns to the ground. Who would have thought?
Obama used the same playbook. His entire presidency was about spending shit tons of cash under the guise of Keynesian policy to make the GDP have the appearance of growth. Where it failed, he simply blamed his predecessor, and where Trump succeeds, he tries to take credit. Really though, if you want to buy into that delayed economy garbage, that means Clinton's economy belongs to Reagan and Bush Jr and any Blunders Bush could accurately be accused of would fall under Clinton. Pick whichever you want, but please, be consistent.
The reason why we can accurately blame Clinton for what happened at the end of Bush's two terms is because we can actually trace back to policy. Timing is a bitch, it turns out. Obama did nothing though that he could take credit for under Trump. His last few years were almost completely ignorant of the economy itself. Neither the media, nor his constituents in congress put any attention on the terrible state of the economy.
By modern day "Keynesian" standards, Bush was the (2nd)best president ever. He spent money like it was going out of style. Only Obama was a better Keynesian (or is it Kenyan? ) than him. Surely to a Keynesian, debt is gold so don't be so quick to throw Bush under the bus. It's also somewhat strange that you would credit Clinton, considering that much of what he did wasn't "Keynesian" in nature. In fact, only his serious financial blunders were so and even then, they are just the modern day bastardization of it.
Because while your pseudocon propagandists are crowing about revenues, they are counting on you not noticing that despite increased revenues, your party and your President are EXPLODING our deficits!
This is such a straw man. Who is it that has so much clout as to speak for all conservatives about the virtues of lower taxes begetting more revenue? Who said conservatives care about government revenue? Many I know are ready for the government to be abolished let alone pissing on about it's revenue. It's spending we all care about because spending is the problem- not revenue. You can double what the government takes in, they'll still find a way to go over budget.
If you're so worried about debt, let's reduce government spending to zero. Something tells me you were totally quiet while Obama doubled our debt in just 8 years.
It's called misdirection. A classic magician's trick to fool the rubes.
No, it's called a straw man. Liberals are very good at creating them.
Trump is on track to blow Obama's debt record wide open. And after whining and whining and whining and whining non-stop for eight years about Obama's spending, your propagandists have gone dark.
And so have you.
The stench of hypocrisy is all over you.
Pot calling the kettle black. I've seen no conservatives who are happy with current spending. I also don't see why you're so upset about it considering you love the idea of more government revenue and more government spending. By your own logic, Trump should be your favorite president if what you say is true!
Trump may be spending a lot, but he's also making sure that the citizens are regaining the wealth that has been robbed from them for 30 + years. He's doing his best to reduce spending, but you either don't know that or you just don't care. It's all about bashing Trump because he's orange or something.
If you want to give Obama credit for Trump's economy, you have to admit it is Obama's government still, and that means it's Obama's spending. Be consistent ffs.
Seriously, you people should drink your own medicine. Hopefully Republicans dominate the midterms. Once the obstructionist democrats have no more power, maybe we can fix this spending issue finally. As it stands, there's a barely visible majority of Republicans, and some of them are just closet democrats anyways. If you care so much about spending, you should be helping us get rid of the democrats so we can actually achieve what you claim to want. Atleast, what I think that you want. I can't tell. You gush over increased government revenue, which is only useful if spent, yet you criticize Trump for spending as much as Obama? Make up your mind!
We have a liberal Constitution that limits our use of Socialism.Our Government, IS left wing. What part of that do you not understand? The right wing has nothing but socialism on a national basis.The right wing is currently in the majority. Our Government is left wing. The right wing alleges to be for Capitalism and definitely not, socialism on a national basis.Our federal form of government is left wing, not right wing.
lol You're the one who created the whole right wing/ left wing analogy. You spend countless posts criticizing the USA's current model as right wing, now it isn't? That's convenient.
Our form of government is naturally more right wing than just about any other on earth by design. Left wing is clearly the wing of big government, high centralization. Our constitution is built upon the notion of decentralization and small government.
Again, I ask of you to show me a "more" left wing government on earth with better opportunities. You didn't provide any examples yet.
You are totally deflecting. You've still not answered my original question. Talk all you want about America being left wing. You've stated for pages now about how right wing our policies are, and always have been. That this administration is more or less right wing than the last doesn't change the fact that historically, America is more right wing than left wing when it comes to government structure and economic policy.
it's also no coincidence that we're the best economy either. Individualism and free market capitalism have shown themselves, through a literal incalculable amount of data, to be the best system on earth. It's why everyone moves here, and why you can't name any socialist or left(er) wing government that can compete with us.
This here convinces me that you're just trolling. I've been wanting to engage you with reasonable expectation, but this is just too far.
You are literally, through countless posts, equating more government policy with left wing, and doing so as indicative of a good thing. However, you then consider more government to be a right wing construct just now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this?
Sorry, but socialism is left wing, by its very nature. If Left Wing is more government, like you promote, that means total government is total left wing. It's pretty simple. Maybe you're one of those people who thinks that the National Socialists Worker Party of German is really right wing despite having a left wing ideology written in its very name. Was Hitler conservative? Small government advocate? Individualist? No?
You are a socialist Daniel. The media may try to lie to you about what socialism is or is not, but that's what you are. You want more government control of things like wages, welfare. You want equal outcome not equal opportunity. That is entirely socialism, and it is entirely a left leaning ideology.
The left are not real liberals. Liberals stand for liberty. The left tainted the term beyond repair.
The left are not individualists, they are collectivists. They support socialism and condemn capitalism. They want the government to set minimum wage, not private businesses.
None of what you say is consistent, much like the OP, you change the goal posts with every sentence. I don't know if it's intentional, or just due to the fact that your news sources paint the whole world as a lie by constantly shifting the meanings of things until they no longer have any basis in reality.
All I know is that I am going to ignore your posts from now on. I gave you a chance to make a point. I put my own reasonings on the table to help us find common ground, but you only want to go in circles or completely change the subject.
No what's despicable is the malfeasance committed by our politiciansDon't care about debtTrump's $1.5 trillion debt bomb he called a "tax reform" was supposed to stimulate the economy. Remember how wages were going to explode?
It turns out all those corporations who received a big cash windfall from their tax cuts used that money to do stock buybacks instead of trickling it down to their workers.
Tax cut triggers $437 billion explosion of stock buybacks
Not only is that most ever, it nearly doubles the previous record of $242.1 billion, which was set during the first three months of the year.
.
All I care about is keeping as much of my own money as possible
That's honest, and despicable.
You're an absolute idiot if you think giving politicians more of your money is going to do a god damned thing besides making you poorer.
