When should a priest tell?

[Luddly Neddite]

Ruling 'attacking' seal of confession likely headed to U.S. Supr - Tucson News Now

It's a case likely headed for the U.S. Supreme Court involving a 14-year-old girl who claims that during the sacrament of confession, she told her parish priest she was being abused.

Her parents are suing the priest and the Catholic Diocese of Baton Rouge, because the priest did not report the abuse.

Diocese officials say, in its ruling, the Louisiana Supreme Court ran afoul of the constitutional rights of the church and the priest.

The secrecy of the confessional is not simply a church tradition. It's considered foundational doctrine of the catholic church that priests absolutely must not violate.

"We cannot break the seal of confession. It is forbidden for us to break it," said Rev. Derek Covert of the Diocese of Lake Charles. Father Covert is a canon lawyer, an expert on church rules and doctrine.

"This is something required from Sacred Scripture, that we confess our sins, and therefore, it is something required by divine law. This is by God, okay? And what we would argue in this is if a person was prevented from going to confession because they feared that it might be revealed, if a priest was made to reveal it, now that person is not going to fulfill a divine law or divine precept," said Covert.

Covert predicts many, if not most priests, would go to prison before they would violate the sacred seal of the sacrament of confession.

"We would have to maybe do time in prison for contempt of court or something like that," said Covert.

In the Baton Rouge case, church officials say they will appeal to the highest court of the land to protect freedom of religion for both the church and the priest.

Some have said that children's parents should be told if they're getting birth control.

What about this situation? The girl is clearly in danger. Should the priest tell? And, who should he tell? What if its a parent or other family member who is abusing the child?

 

[Gracie]

Priests don't tell. Period. The parents should have been more aware of their kid and suing the priest won't do anything except get them MONEY if they win. Gosh. I wonder if that is the plan. MONEY. And not about what their kid went thru. IF its true.

 

[percysunshine]

One perspective published;

"This case gets complicated for a couple of reasons. While the common perception has been that priests cannot be forced to testify about confessions in the US because of ministerial privilege and the First Amendment, that privilege gets defined by each state separately. In Louisiana, the privilege attaches to the person offering the confession and not the priest. Once the penitent has revealed what was said — or perhaps more to the specific point in this case, alleges to have revealed what was said — the state can subpoena the priest to confirm or deny the testimony. In that sense, it’s akin to the lawyer-client privilege, which can be broken by the client.

On the other hand, lawyers don’t face eternal disbarment for testifying once a client has waived the privilege. Priests do, and face automatic expulsion from the Catholic Church for complying."

Louisiana Supreme Court orders priest to testify about confession « Hot Air

Go to jail and wait it out? Probably.

 

[hotpotato]

It is about time children were told there are far better people to inform than the local priest. The police and children's services for starters(at least a report should be made there). Children should be made aware at school that there are places they can contact in such cases. There are more than enough children's tv channels where that message can be put across.
The church doesn't have a very good record in reporting this type of abuse, so yes the parents are probably more interested in the money than the welfare of their daughter, I hope I am wrong on that point.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Kids have been hiding horrible abuse from their parents, teachers and others for a long time. It would be nice if kids could tell their parents or trust the adults with their secrets but they can't.

We need to start with that fact.

 

[percysunshine]

Kids have been hiding horrible abuse from their parents, teachers and others for a long time. It would be nice if kids could tell their parents or trust the adults with their secrets but they can't.

We need to start with that fact.

Luddly. If you go into a Catholic Church, and tell something to a Priest in a confessional, he will keep it secret forever. Even at the expense of him going to jail. It is an unbroken trust.

 

[Gracie]

The priest will never tell...so it is going on just the kids word and the parents acting on it. I smell money.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I wonder if the parents would have sued if the girl said in the confessional that her father was abusing her and he DID report it......

 

[BreezeWood]

... involving a 14-year-old girl who claims that during the sacrament of confession, she told her parish priest she was being abused.

they do not say why her confession is pertinent to the case - is the girl saying the priest advised her not to divulge the situation to anyone else ?

what the advice given by the priest was should be considered and provided if it became detrimental to the outcome of the case - no one is above the law.

.

 

[PostmodernProph]

... involving a 14-year-old girl who claims that during the sacrament of confession, she told her parish priest she was being abused.

they do not say why her confession is pertinent to the case - is the girl saying the priest advised her not to divulge the situation to anyone else ?

what the advice given by the priest was should be considered and provided if it became detrimental to the outcome of the case - no one is above the law.

.

its not about being above the law....as the law currently stands, the priest complied with it.....this case is seeking a change in that law.....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ruling 'attacking' seal of confession likely headed to U.S. Supr - Tucson News Now

It's a case likely headed for the U.S. Supreme Court involving a 14-year-old girl who claims that during the sacrament of confession, she told her parish priest she was being abused.

Her parents are suing the priest and the Catholic Diocese of Baton Rouge, because the priest did not report the abuse.

Diocese officials say, in its ruling, the Louisiana Supreme Court ran afoul of the constitutional rights of the church and the priest.

The secrecy of the confessional is not simply a church tradition. It's considered foundational doctrine of the catholic church that priests absolutely must not violate.

"We cannot break the seal of confession. It is forbidden for us to break it," said Rev. Derek Covert of the Diocese of Lake Charles. Father Covert is a canon lawyer, an expert on church rules and doctrine.

"This is something required from Sacred Scripture, that we confess our sins, and therefore, it is something required by divine law. This is by God, okay? And what we would argue in this is if a person was prevented from going to confession because they feared that it might be revealed, if a priest was made to reveal it, now that person is not going to fulfill a divine law or divine precept," said Covert.

Covert predicts many, if not most priests, would go to prison before they would violate the sacred seal of the sacrament of confession.

"We would have to maybe do time in prison for contempt of court or something like that," said Covert.

In the Baton Rouge case, church officials say they will appeal to the highest court of the land to protect freedom of religion for both the church and the priest.

Some have said that children's parents should be told if they're getting birth control.

What about this situation? The girl is clearly in danger. Should the priest tell? And, who should he tell? What if its a parent or other family member who is abusing the child?

Priests should never tell, it violates all the tenets of the confession and cannon law. By the way, of you actually read the link you posted you will see the girl already told her story, and that the state is atempting to force the priest to violate confession in order to confirm the story. If she is in danger it is because the state doesn't believe her, not because the priest doesn't speak up.

Also, no one in the church thinks parents should be informed if a child confesses to using contraceptives, so you can drop the phony story.

 

[Howey]

Priests don't tell. Period. The parents should have been more aware of their kid and suing the priest won't do anything except get them MONEY if they win. Gosh. I wonder if that is the plan. MONEY. And not about what their kid went thru. IF its true.

If the priest cared he would have brought the parents in and you know...told them without really telling them

 

[Howey]

Wait. If the priests are so damn concerned about the rules why did they diddle all those alter boys?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Another point, if the girl is actually lying about what she told the priest that would be an even more extreme violation of the confession than confirming what she said.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Priests don't tell. Period. The parents should have been more aware of their kid and suing the priest won't do anything except get them MONEY if they win. Gosh. I wonder if that is the plan. MONEY. And not about what their kid went thru. IF its true.

If the priest cared he would have brought the parents in and you know...told them without really telling them

How do you know he didn't, and that the parents chose to ignore him. Or that she didn't tell the priest that she told her parents. After all, plenty of parents have ignored their children when they told them about being abused.

 

[BreezeWood]

Seal of Confession Under Attack in Louisiana Court Case - Aleteia


Father Jeff Bayhi could soon find himself on the witness stand, facing questions about what a teenage girl reportedly told him in the confessional six years ago about an adult male parishioner allegedly molesting her.

"If indeed this comes to pass, the priest will have to remain silent. He would simply have to say, 'I can't answer that question.' He would have to risk going to jail," said Father Michael P. Orsi, a former chaplain and research fellow in law and religion at Ave Maria Law School in Naples, Fla.

Father Bayhi, a native of Baton Rouge, La., is a defendant in a civil lawsuit brought by the girl's relatives, who argue that he gave the girl bad advice and failed to comply with Louisiana's mandated reporter laws by not notifying authorities about what she told him in the confessional in July 2008.

The Louisiana Supreme Court, in overturning an appellate court ruling, recently determined that the girl's lawyer can present evidence about the alleged confessions at trial. The Supreme Court also said the trial court should convene a hearing to determine whether a valid confession was actually held in order to decide whether the priest's conversations with the girl are privileged.

The Diocese of Baton Rouge, which is also named as a defendant in the lawsuit, last week issued a forceful statement that challenges the notion that a secular civil court has the competency to define a valid sacramental confession.

a little more clarity to the proceedings -

interesting however doubtful a centuries old tradition will fall to the wayside.

.

 

[Nutz]

I thought priests were allowed to talk if someone was in imminent danger. Nonetheless, something is fishy here...wouldn't the girl have been aware the priest was unable to say anything. If she wanted to confide or was looking for help, why wouldn't she have spoken with the priest outside of the confessional?

 

[percysunshine]

Another point, if the girl is actually lying about what she told the priest that would be an even more extreme violation of the confession than confirming what she said.

So, if the girl is lying under oath, the priest should use the Confessional to bring charges of perjury against her? That does not sound right.

This is getting messy....

 

[Noomi]

Priests don't tell. Period. The parents should have been more aware of their kid and suing the priest won't do anything except get them MONEY if they win. Gosh. I wonder if that is the plan. MONEY. And not about what their kid went thru. IF its true.

My parents still don't know that I was molested at the age of 11 by a friend of a friend. I never told them.
They also don't know that I was abused at the age of 17 by someone I thought I could trust.

Parents don't know everything.

 

[Noomi]

The priest does NOT have to remain silent at all. He can choose to speak in court and he can choose to report the abuse.
This has nothing to do with some so called vow of silence and everything to do with a bunch of religious fuddies believing that their belief in something they cannot prove is more important than a child who is being abused.