Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[Lisa558]

I have never been to a bible study where the person leading the study had an open mind. In fact I have been thrown out of or asked to never return to every bible study that I ever attended. Go figure. What bible study actually is in my experience is a brainwashing session for the gullible.

Agree! I once signed up for a course on different religions, just to educate myself. The very first day, the instructor gave us the “rules.” We were not to debate any points, nor even raise a question unless it was solely to get clarification on something he said that we didn’t understand. The rest of the session was him telling us the Christian perspective as if it was…..pardon the pun….the gospel truth. Dissenting opinions disallowed, and I never went back.

That he made the eternal law obsolete. He claimed to be God in the flesh. He died as a perfect human sacrifice to himself so believers wouldn't have to pay the penalty for sin, death. The way to eternal life is accepting Jesus as God and savior. He performed supernatural demonstrations of divine power over reality. He was one third of a coequal trinity yet not equal to God, der, derp.

If Jesus claimed to be God he was insane. If he claimed to end the law he was not the Messiah.

Should I go on?

Jesus never claimed any of that, as he didn’t meet the Jewish parameters for the Messiah. (One is that the Messiah would be a mortal man.) All that stuff came after his death.

He must be rolling over in his grave.

If the concern of God is what people eat and what they wear and the sexual preferences of consenting adults condemning humans for being human and demanding worship and expressions of remorse for being human then that would make God an asshole. I would never worship such a perverse image and likeness of God created by human ignorance, beliefs baked on human dung. The law has deeper meaning that reflects divine wisdom and the benevolence of my God. Only the wrong way to follow the law became obsolete after the revelation of Jesus, not the Law itself. The Law given as "a light to the nations" will remain in effect and in full force for as long as heaven and earth endure, but thats only according to Jesus, see Matthew 5:17-20, yet believers don't believe.

"Therefore anyone who sets aside even one of the least of these commands, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,"

To understand what Jesus meant by saying "least" see Genesis 3:14

 

[Woodznutz]

use a little discernment-----the rantings of a "john" in your IMPECCABLE opinion
are reliable quotations from Jesus (whoever he was)?

I was referring to the OT history of Israel, mainly.

 

[Woodznutz]

God’s covenant with David: David’s descendant will have a throne and kingdom that will last forever. Jesus’s mother was from the house of David.

As was the daughter of Zedekiah.

 

[hobelim]

What eternal law did he make obsolete?

There we’re five covenants before.

Adam and Eve broke the first, by eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Jesus‘s sacrifice will repair that.

Noah’s covenant was that God would not flood the world again. Did Jesus flood the world?

Abraham’s covenant: circumcision, that his people will inherit the land.

Moses: God’s Laws. Jesus simplified the laws into two major commandments: to love God, and to love your neighbor.

God’s covenant with David: David’s descendant will have a throne and kingdom that will last forever. Jesus’s mother was from the house of David.

Good luck with that!

 

[hobelim]

Jesus never claimed any of that, as he didn’t meet the Jewish parameters for the Messiah.

The thing is, Jesus didn't meet any of the criteria for the Messiah because in the first century Jewish messianic expectations were as irrational as Christian expectations of the second coming.

 

[BreezeWood]

What eternal law did he make obsolete?

There we’re five covenants before.

Adam and Eve broke the first, by eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Jesus‘s sacrifice will repair that.

Noah’s covenant was that God would not flood the world again. Did Jesus flood the world?

Abraham’s covenant: circumcision, that his people will inherit the land.

Moses: God’s Laws. Jesus simplified the laws into two major commandments: to love God, and to love your neighbor.

God’s covenant with David: David’s descendant will have a throne and kingdom that will last forever. Jesus’s mother was from the house of David.

Jesus’s mother was from the house of David.

think again, she resided in the house of liberation theology, self determination the same choice as jesus - the house of david was burned to the ground ...

 

[Lisa558]

The thing is, Jesus didn't meet any of the criteria for the Messiah because in the first century Jewish messianic expectations were as irrational as Christian expectations of the second coming.

Two of the expectations were that the Messiah would herald in an area of no war, and the rebuilding of the Temple. Neither happened.

 

[onefour1]

OMG….all this nasty talk about Jews being destroyed and cursed. Eye-opening as to why those Catholic School boys blew out my Shabbat candles and cursed my religion.

It all comes from prophesies in the Bible and that includes the Old Testament which the Jews themselves profess to believe.

 

[hobelim]

Two of the expectations were that the Messiah would herald in an area of no war,

Have you ever read the Dead Sea war scrolls? They were expecting a warrior messiah who would defeat the kittim, the romans, with fiery angels that god farted out of the sky....Not very peaceful..

and the rebuilding of the Temple. Neither happened.

The exact wording is that the Messiah would lead people to the "sanctuary of God" which is not about any temple made by human hands where farm animals are slaughtered. The sanctuary of God has a meaning closer to that of divine providence. Abundant blessings and eternal life, "in the sanctuary of God", on earth, is the promise for the righteous fulfillment of the Law's demands...

Jesus did lead people to the sanctuary of God by teaching and demonstrating the only right way to understand and comply with the figurative words and hidden subjects of the law that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of abundant blessings on earth and eternal life in the sanctuary of God.

Peace has always been the reward for all those who hear this revelation of Jesus and act on it.

 

[Lisa558]

It all comes from prophesies in the Bible and that includes the Old Testament which the Jews themselves profess to believe.

Yeah, yeah…so Christians have told me. Again. And again. And again. And again.

Those “prophesies” are all misinterpreted.

 

[Woodznutz]

think again, she resided in the house of liberation theology, self determination the same choice as jesus - the house of david was burned to the ground ...

Think again,

Genesis 49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Jeremiah 33:17
For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man (or woman) to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah, yeah…so Christians have told me. Again. And again. And again. And again.

Those “prophesies” are all misinterpreted.

Latter day prophecies concerning the Jews are literally spot on. Read them for yourself.

 

[theHawk]

Good luck with that!

I see you can’t answer the question.

 

[hobelim]

I see you can’t answer the question.

Jesus did not claim to make the law obsolete. Paul claimed that he did. Paul was a guilt ridden self loathing masochistic homophobic misogynist who contradicted Jesus on many key issues related to salvation while perpetuating the same perverse views of the law that Jesus died opposing.

Paul was an agent of the enemy who infiltrated the early christian movement to curse the Gentiles and insure that the Jewish people would dismiss the teachings of Jesus out of hand. He pretended to be struck blind fumbling around for a while and then pretended to regain his sight and then in an amazing vision was commissioned by Jesus himself to be a replacement for Judas.

Hmm.

The disciples, who knew that Jesus healed a blindness of perception not sight, must have had a hard time not bursting out laughing at Paul's pathetic acting skills. When the church of Jerusalem was destroyed all that remained were the writings of Paul. This is what your perverse ascetic guilt ridden self loathing masochistic homophobic misogynistic mithraic Roman church is based on.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

What is your evidence? Show me in the Old Testament that God is only one divine being. When the Old Testament speaks of there being no other Gods beside God, he is speaking of the godhead which is one true God. The godhead consists of three distinct individual beings known as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. They represent the one true God to us on earth

If God is only one being, then why in Genesis does it refer to more than one being in the creation?

• God said, Let us make man in our image, Gen. 1:26.

Associating Themselves With a Higher Power Makes Theists Feel They're Better Than Us

It's the "royal we." Otherwise, it would have specifically defined the Trinity and the Jews would have been expecting the Son to come down to Earth. It's irrational to think that the Old Testament would have left that all blank. But there you go and there you are.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

here is another reference:

• man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, Gen. 3:22.

Spoken to the Angels

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The earth is an elegant "glob of dust".

Worship of Nature Is Primitive and Mindless

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There’s no evidence for Jesus being a deity, either, yet you believe it because it is what your religion teaches.

When Things Don't Add Up, There's a Lot of Calculating Going On

Obviously the miracles are fake news, or else the Jews who are claimed to have witnessed them would not only have spread the word and converted many more Christians, they would have sacrificed their lives to prevent the Crucifixion. Even the Apostles hid out of sight.

 

[surada]

I have never been to a bible study where the person leading the study had an open mind. In fact I have been thrown out of or asked to never return to every bible study that I ever attended. Go figure. What bible study actually is in my experience is a brainwashing session for the gullible.



That he made the eternal law obsolete. He claimed to be God in the flesh. He died as a perfect human sacrifice to himself so believers wouldn't have to pay the penalty for sin, death. The way to eternal life is accepting Jesus as God and savior. He performed supernatural demonstrations of divine power over reality. He was one third of a coequal trinity yet not equal to God, der, derp.

If Jesus claimed to be God he was insane. If he claimed to end the law he was not the Messiah.

Should I go on?



If the concern of God is what people eat and what they wear and the sexual preferences of consenting adults condemning humans for being human and demanding worship and expressions of remorse for being human then that would make God an asshole. I would never worship such a perverse image and likeness of God created by human ignorance, beliefs baked on human dung. The law has deeper meaning that reflects divine wisdom and the benevolence of my God. Only the wrong way to follow the law became obsolete after the revelation of Jesus, not the Law itself. The Law given as "a light to the nations" will remain in effect and in full force for as long as heaven and earth endure, but thats only according to Jesus, see Matthew 5:17-20, yet believers don't believe.

"Therefore anyone who sets aside even one of the least of these commands, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,"

To understand what Jesus meant by saying "least" see Genesis 3:14

Wow. Did this happen in Missouri?

 

[Woodznutz]

use a little discernment-----the rantings of a "john" in your IMPECCABLE opinion
are reliable quotations from Jesus (whoever he was)?

I was referring mainly to the 'rantings' of the OT history of Israel.